NationStates Jolt Archive

I was sitting on my bus today, riding silently home from school as I usually do. But today was different, I heard something that I had never heard before; a discussion over politics. A teenager sitting in the seat across from me was lamenting on the level of influence corporations hold over our government. I immediately began to eavesdrop on the entire conversation, hoping that I had found someone who actually had political opinion which he had formulated on his own. At this point I had seen the first red flag... A poorly drawn Sickle & Hammer which appeared to have been etched on the kids backpack with a sharpie. After listening to the conversation for a few more minutes I decided to rudely butt-in. I asked him "What about the fact that Marxist centrally planned economies do not reward innovation, effectively discouraging change?" He gave me a deer-in-the-headlights look "What centrally planned economies?" I soon discovered he didn't know about anything Marx stood for, he didn't even have a clue as to what the Proletariat or the Bourgeoisie was. He had no idea what Communism was at all, he just liked Russia, Russians, and Russian symbolism. I slumped back against the window, bitter and disappointed.

Has anyone here met someone in their school/workplace who has political opinions and actually knows what the hell they're talking about?

Another question would be about Communism, do you think a lot of the belief in it is fueled by Orientalist feelings toward Russia?

I think the problem lies in the fact that because Communism was seen as "the enemy" for much of the post-war period, impressionable youths will pretend that they're communists to "fight the system," despite knowing nothing of the ideology.
Its really quite sad, as your post points out.

Well, aside from the fact that Communism was a repressive, failed ideology that left the places it touched technologically, socially, and economically backward, it's rather amusing. I guess it's worth something that the kid is at least somewhat interested in politics, which is more than can be said about most kids.

I think Communism died when they started digging up all those mass graves...

be happy. He's young, but he's ineterested. He's the kind of person who will eventually learn something about the world because he's already ineterested in politics. Patience is called for. :)

I can imagine what I'd think of me now if I heard some of the crap I spouted when I was 16. :p

be happy. He's young, but he's ineterested. He's the kind of person who will eventually learn something about the world because he's already ineterested in politics. Patience is called for. :)

I can imagine what I'd think of me now if I heard some of the crap I spouted when I was 16. :p

Very true. Of course, I seem to recall an embarrassing incident in the late 1960s when my father was against the Vietnam War before I was, but I've almost repressed those memories completely.

Repressive, no. It was just never properly instituted. As a matter of fact, It probably could NEVER be properly instituted.

I think Communism died, when all the communist governments died... with no Russia, and China getting more capitalistic by the day, its clear that Communism has had no success at being the beacon of hope to the poor that it wanted to be. It's not "cool" to be communist anymore. Kids have moved on to their next fad.

Well, when I say Communism I mean "Communism as practiced"; of course, if the theory fails every time it is implemented, it's pretty likely that it doesn't work. And the regimes that embraced Communism were unequivocally some of the most brutal in the history of the world.

And no, it's not cool to be Communist anymore; now, whether you see it as good or bad, the new cool is to be politically apathetic.

Has anyone here met someone in their school/workplace who has political opinions and actually knows what the hell they're talking about?

Another question would be about Communism, do you think a lot of the belief in it is fueled by Orientalist feelings toward Russia?

a) apart from at university when i was studying politics, no not really. apart from my girlfriend and her family.

b) potentially for some people.

Well, aside from the fact that totalitarianism was a repressive, failed ideology that left the places it touched technologically, socially, and economically backward, it's rather amusing. I guess it's worth something that the kid is at least somewhat interested in politics, which is more than can be said about most kids.

I think totalitarianism died when they started digging up all those mass graves...

fixed.

communism cannot work just yet and needs a totalitarian reigime to force it on people who would not naturally fit the altruistic nature of the ideology. hence why all 'communist' nations (not actually communist, sate-capitalist or 'socialist' at best, under Marx's own theory of historical materialism) have been totalitarian and evil. give it a couple of hundered years of gradual change and people might be ready :)

edit: imho :) *doesn't want to start/inflate arguement*

Well, aside from the fact that Communism was a repressive, failed ideology that left the places it touched technologically, socially, and economically backward, it's rather amusing. I guess it's worth something that the kid is at least somewhat interested in politics, which is more than can be said about most kids.

I think Communism died when they started digging up all those mass graves...

Repressive, no. It was just never properly instituted. As a matter of fact, It probably could NEVER be properly instituted.

I think Communism died, when all the communist governments died... with no Russia, and China getting more capitalistic by the day, its clear that Communism has had no success at being the beacon of hope to the poor that it wanted to be. It's not "cool" to be communist anymore. Kids have moved on to their next fad.

Dude, they just went to the bar down the street. Relax.

speaking of where the commies have gone, where the hell is DHomme these days? :(

i miss him calling me a reformist pussy and champagne socialist :p

If that's true it's a goddamn shame, but it seems like the "new cool" is Bush-hating. (a much more admirable trend, IMHO)

Bush hating is A-Numero Uno! :D I just wish there were more people who actually knew why they hated him so much.

Well, when I say Communism I mean "Communism as practiced"; of course, if the theory fails every time it is implemented, it's pretty likely that it doesn't work. And the regimes that embraced Communism were unequivocally some of the most brutal in the history of the world.

And no, it's not cool to be Communist anymore; now, whether you see it as good or bad, the new cool is to be politically apathetic.

If that's true it's a goddamn shame, but it seems like the "new cool" is Bush-hating. (a much more admirable trend, IMHO)

He didn't even know what the Proletariat or Bourgeoisie is/was? Forget political ideas, he needs to start by listening in class. Jeez.

Okay, I'm guilty. I voted on the poll without really knowing what "orientalism" is. I'm assuming it's love of exotic, unusual, or different "foreign-ness"

Its the act of classifying people of different cultures as "The Other." That's actually what Oriental means - "The Other."

.
communism cannot work just yet and needs a totalitarian reigime to force it on people who would not naturally fit the altruistic nature of the ideology. hence why all 'communist' nations (not actually communist, sate-capitalist or 'socialist' at best, under Marx's own theory of historical materialism) have been totalitarian and evil. give it a couple of hundered years of gradual change and people might be ready :)

Yeah, that's why I prefer to use Communism with a capital C when referring to it as imposed on the people of the USSR or China, for example.

I was sitting on my bus today, riding silently home from school as I usually do. But today was different, I heard something that I had never heard before; a discussion over politics. A teenager sitting in the seat across from me was lamenting on the level of influence corporations hold over our government. I immediately began to eavesdrop on the entire conversation, hoping that I had found someone who actually had political opinion which he had formulated on his own. At this point I had seen the first red flag... A poorly drawn Sickle & Hammer which appeared to have been etched on the kids backpack with a sharpie. After listening to the conversation for a few more minutes I decided to rudely butt-in. I asked him "What about the fact that Marxist centrally planned economies do not reward innovation, effectively discouraging change?" He gave me a deer-in-the-headlights look "What centrally planned economies?" I soon discovered he didn't know about anything Marx stood for, he didn't even have a clue as to what the Proletariat or the Bourgeoisie was. He had no idea what Communism was at all, he just liked Russia, Russians, and Russian symbolism. I slumped back against the window, bitter and disappointed.

Has anyone here met someone in their school/workplace who has political opinions and actually knows what the hell they're talking about?

Another question would be about Communism, do you think a lot of the belief in it is fueled by Orientalist feelings toward Russia?

He didn't even know what the Proletariat or Bourgeoisie is/was? Forget political ideas, he needs to start by listening in class. Jeez.

Okay, I'm guilty. I voted on the poll without really knowing what "orientalism" is. I'm assuming it's love of exotic, unusual, or different "foreign-ness"

Well i think i started out as one of those sad "fight the system" communists, but after reading more about communism i found i agreed with a lot of it, and much prefer it over capitalism.
And I know what the Prolatariat and Bourgeoisie are/mean :) Im not an expert on marxism (or leninism, stalinism etc.) or anything, but i know a lot more than most people...

I've met a few people in my school who've claimed to be communists, but unfortunatly they were all like you described, they just liked russian symbols and things :(

Its pretty lonely being a communist...

Has anyone here met someone in their school/workplace who has political opinions and actually knows what the hell they're talking about?



other than poli-sci profs and students very few people actually know anything about it...how many politicians really know anything (and I've met a few)they're surprisingly ignorant...even the so-called political experts on tv who go raging on about commies(anyone who is in favor of medicare)know very little...

That describes me partially, but I believe in a more moderate form of communism that I won't take the time to explain until I write my manifesto in a few years. A centrally planned economy could work, if it wasn;t planned to every detail. The planning needs to ensure everyone gets what they need to survive and also help producer produce better.

Communism has become popular among the youth as an seperatist movement. Normally, this is just because of the negative stigma that is attached to it in American society. Really, its becoming less and less controversial to the point where a "commie teenager" is a cliche.

communism cannot work just yet

Sounds like what those Seventh Day Adventist chaps tell me on the oval, only replace communism with "Jesus coming back".

be happy. He's young, but he's ineterested. He's the kind of person who will eventually learn something about the world because he's already ineterested in politics. Patience is called for. :)


Thank you for showing the positive side to it. Stopped me from being depressed at the kid's ignorance.

Its the act of classifying people of different cultures as "The Other." That's actually what Oriental means - "The Other."

In this sense its the obsession with, and often the imitation of a foreign culture.

Communists haven't gone to any particular place that I've observed, aside from a general state of disillusionment after finding out that the world is simply not ready for their ideology.

Some communists are still fighting for the revolution, some are working on a local level to bring about positive change in their political spheres, some are in education hoping to influence the development of the next generation, and some of them are sitting in communes, enjoying their simple lifestyle.

That's actually what Oriental means - "The Other."

No: it means 'from or of the east' from the latin for the rising sun. Compare with 'occidental' meaning 'from or of the west' from the latin for the setting sun.

Sounds like what those Seventh Day Adventist chaps tell me on the oval, only replace communism with "Jesus coming back".

Oh, adventists. I thought for a second you were referring to the Seven Day Theorists (The guys who think Tupac Shakur isn't dead. Or atleast I think it's Tupac they don't think is dead.).

You guys didn't hear? The Communists are just hiding until the time is right... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3F4iinPn7Q&mode=related&search=)

Another question would be about Communism, do you think a lot of the belief in it is fueled by Orientalist feelings toward Russia?

at the risk of being found out as ignorant...

what does "Orientalist feelings" mean?

at the risk of being found out as ignorant...

what does "Orientalist feelings" mean?

In this context 'fascination with the mysterious great unknown'.

Sounds like what those Seventh Day Adventist chaps tell me on the oval, only replace communism with "Jesus coming back".
Pretty much. The only way I'll ever submit to it is over my dead body. Nauseating ideology, I want nothing to do with it in theory or in practice. If it ever comes to be, I'll get together with Vittos, Llewdor, Greill, Vetalia, Neu Leonstein and you to either form our own little laissez-faire community, or overthrow the Red behemoth (if it doesn't collapse on itself).

[QUOTE=Pyotr;12240566]\

Where have all the commies gone?
To Dictator for life Hugo Chavez's Venezuela, lol.

Well i think i started out as one of those sad "fight the system" communists, but after reading more about communism i found i agreed with a lot of it, and much prefer it over capitalism.
And I know what the Prolatariat and Bourgeoisie are/mean :) Im not an expert on marxism (or leninism, stalinism etc.) or anything, but i know a lot more than most people...

I've met a few people in my school who've claimed to be communists, but unfortunatly they were all like you described, they just liked russian symbols and things :(

Its pretty lonely being a communist...

Just pay attention on this forum, and you'll learn loads about communist ideologies from actual communists. Welcome aboard!

In my experience, I've known a couple of people who called themselves communists out of an urge to "fight the power" or an attachment to Russia. For the most part, though, a large number that I know are very dedicated and quite well researched on the subject. I've only met one true Marxian communist, but he was much more of a Left Communist then a traditional Marxian communist.