NationStates Jolt Archive

I think that religion is perhaps the cruelest control device ever created. Not only because the organizations themselves have historically been more corrupt than the Governments that they controlled, but they provide one of the most horrible feelings of false hope that people are willing to fight and even die to keep. Any other opinions?

Religion isn't a feeling of false hope, so I would have to disagree there. Indeed, regimes that repress religion inevitably suffer serious moral and motivational problems that play a huge role in their collapse.

The most dangerous tool of control has always been the state. It uses its vast power to subjugate and control people, and is perfectly willing to commit any moral abuses necessary to hold on to its power. There has never been a group more capable of destruction than centralized government, and never will be.

No. This is (http://media.funlol.com/content/img/chinese-torture.jpg). :p

Definetly much worse than religion.

Edit: Lets do the time warp again!

I think that religion is perhaps the cruelest control device ever created.
No. This is (http://media.funlol.com/content/img/chinese-torture.jpg). :p

Religion isn't a feeling of false hope, so I would have to disagree there. Indeed, regimes that repress religion inevitably suffer serious moral and motivational problems that play a huge role in their collapse.
China? And if you see with your eyes and interperate logically what is and what isn't (the only way to see) you will see indeed that it is false hope; it is a hope that is empty in that all of its promises lie in a fantasy world that doesn't exist within the confines of our universe.

The most dangerous tool of control has always been the state. It uses its vast power to subjugate and control people, and is perfectly willing to commit any moral abuses necessary to hold on to its power. There has never been a group more capable of destruction than centralized government, and never will be.
I'm not going to negate this, as I agree, however religion has historically had near equal if not sometimes more power than the nation itself over governing the people. Infact in some cases such as Fredrick Barbarossa separation from the religion of the times has occured due to the king feeling that he is overpowered by the church.

No. This is (http://media.funlol.com/content/img/chinese-torture.jpg). :p

That is beyond cruel sir. :p

No. This is (http://media.funlol.com/content/img/chinese-torture.jpg). :p

I think brainwash, hypnosis, propaganda with subliminal messages, and last but not least forcing someone to do something with brute force, whether its you as the President forcing a ridiculas and immoral law onto the unwilling citizen or forcing someone to do something wrong whilst you point a gun at his wife or child's head. But then again I find most means to control someone cruel unless its honest and righteous. But as many would argue that all depens on religion and free will.

That is beyond cruel sir. :p

Beleive it or not Mongolians would find that attractive...:eek:

China? And if you see with your eyes and interperate logically what is and what isn't (the only way to see) you will see indeed that it is false hope; it is a hope that is empty in that all of its promises lie in a fantasy world that doesn't exist within the confines of our universe.

China? China has always been a religious nation; their traditional folk beliefs survive to this day, despite the atrocities of the Communist party, and have resurged as their people seek spiritual fulfillment. A nation without spirituality withers and dies because its people lack the sense of purpose and hope that religion brings.

Well, of course, because it exists outside of this universe. To assume that this is all there is requires a lot more faith than to believe that there is something more...if anything, advances in science tell us that there is more out there than anyone could have possibly dreamed of, and the concept of a neat and tidy physical universe is a joke, a relic of the past.

I'm not going to negate this, as I agree, however religion has historically had near equal if not sometimes more power than the nation itself over governing the people. Infact in some cases such as Fredrick Barbarossa separation from the religion of the times has occured due to the king feeling that he is overpowered by the church.

The state controls and perverts religion according to its own desires; it is almost never the other way around because religious beliefs emerge from the bottom and work their way to the top rather than vice versa.

Stupidity

Because no one causes it, and it's incurable.

I think that religion is perhaps the cruelest control device ever created. Not only because the organizations themselves have historically been more corrupt than the Governments that they controlled, but they provide one of the most horrible feelings of false hope that people are willing to fight and even die to keep. Any other opinions?

Oh, dear God! No! Here comes evil religion to kill us and steal our women and our precious metals! Who will save us? :rolleyes:


"Free thinking" is the real answer, because it isn't free thinking. It just makes the people conform to the thoughts of the "rebellious intellectuals" in the society.

Stupidity

Because no one causes it, and it's incurable.

:(

Stupidity

Because no one causes it, and it's incurable.

I think you win.

Oh, dear God! No! Here comes evil religion to kill us and steal our women and our precious metals! Who will save us? :rolleyes:


"Free thinking" is the real answer, because it isn't free thinking. It just makes the people conform to the thoughts of the "rebellious intellectuals" in the society.

No, the best philosophy is the one you make yourself. Following anyone else is not the way to freedom. Following yourself is.

Oh, dear God! No! Here comes evil religion to kill us and steal our women and our precious metals! Who will save us?


"Free thinking" is the real answer, because it isn't free thinking. It just makes the people conform to the thoughts of the "rebellious intellectuals" in the society.

come to think of it, the weak minded are indirectly the ones to blame. Lets see... they give all these nuts who want control the power (http://z4.invisionfree.com/Time_for_Nintendo/index.php?showtopic=364) Eliminate weak mindedness by promoting freedom of thought can prevent the use of control devices.

No, the best philosophy is the one you make yourself. Following anyone else is not the way to freedom. Following yourself is.

Why would I, a flawed human being, trust myself to make up a philosophy?

come to think of it, the weak minded are indirectly the ones to blame. Lets see... they give all these nuts who want control the power (http://z4.invisionfree.com/Time_for_Nintendo/index.php?showtopic=364) Eliminate weak mindedness by promoting freedom of thought can prevent the use of control devices.

I don't think the link is doing what you want it to be doing.

And I was talking about enslaved thought parading as free thought.

Fear.

Religion itself is not the cruelest form of control, but the people who interpret, mangle, and distort religion to control the weak minded, hopeless, and uneducated. More people have died in the name of Jesus, God, Allah, Muhammad, Abraham, etc. than any other cause.

The only salvation is pure reason.

Religion itself is not the cruelest form of control, but the people who interpret, mangle, and distort religion to control the weak minded, hopeless, and uneducated. More people have died in the name of Jesus, God, Allah, Muhammad, Abraham, etc. than any other cause.

The only salvation is pure reason.

Note that if there were no weak minded these people would have no power.

Stupidity

Because no one causes it, and it's incurable.

ROFLMAO

Stupidity

Because no one causes it, and it's incurable.

Stupidity is curable and the cure is called education.

the cruelest form of Control? Education. it's indoctrination disguised as "Free Thinking".

granted, like most forms of control, it's not 100% effective. But for those who are taken, they loose their ability to think outside the confined areas of what they are taught. Instead of finding new paths and making new innovations, many "Educated" persons are trapped within the thought processes of those that "Educated" them.

Firmly believing in what they are taught, they often deny evidence that are contrary to what they believe, they scoff new ways of looking at the world, rely on "proofs" that they themselves can perform and duplicate 100% successfully. These people don't realize that instead of being "Free Thinkers" they are actually narrow-minded and are wearing mental blinders that block all except what they are taught.

What makes Education the Cruelest form of control?
1) The sad fact that many "educators" don't realize they are doing this to their subjects. Many believe they are setting their subjects, called "Students" free when infact, they are placing chains on them that require mythical strength to break.
2) The lure of a "Good Education" draws many to these centers where this diabolical form of control is placed. Many go into debt to enter these places... yes, they pay to be put under someone elses control.
3) the Ideals of the instructors (yes, there are many, for each student will latch onto an "instructor" for various of reasons.) get transferred to their students. sometimes the Ideals of these instructors conflict with what the subject learns from their parents, creating strife where the Ideals of the Instructors tend to end up in control of the subject.
4) The master is Legion. Many subjects are used to control these "students" Religion, Science, Math, Arts... Each one striving to gain control of their students. each one demanding and none forgiving should one place an emphasis on the other. the mark of one who is under the control of educators are ones that place all their faith in ONE aspect of the universe with near total disreguard to the others. Nevermind that the great thinkers of the past dabbled in multitude of subjects, now its either Religion or Science. Arts or Math, Physcial Prowess or Mental Prowess... and it's because of these imagined and reinforced rivalries that make the control methods used invisible to all.

Think about your own experiences in these Social Control - Harmonization Orderly Organized Locations (SCHOOL)s you are given many subjects... then as it progresses, you find yourself being compartmentalized into many "Cliques" Jocks, Nerds, Geeks, Thespians, Goths/Emos, etc... then to further control you, they make you believe that you need to attend Universalizing Sites (Universities) inorder to succeed in life. when you get out, you are brainwashed into thinking that you are free and that your offspings need to attend these SCHOOLS and recieve an education in the same format that you did. the process is self sustaining, built on the process of deluding each Student and locking them in a never ending loop.

Many subconconciously realize what was done and attempt to break the cycle, by using various forms of the same process. Most call it Homeschooling. some succeed in keeping their offspring from being turned into narrow-minded "Educated" persons, but others end up having their offspring sent to "schools".

Truly a cruel and devious form of control.

Stupidity is curable and the cure is called education.

There are plenty of idiotic psuedo-intellectuals out there.

Stupidity is curable and the cure is called education.

Ignorance can be cured. Stupidity cannot.

Ignorance can be cured. Stupidity cannot.

So what is your definition of "stupidity"?

I think that religion is perhaps the cruelest control device ever created. Not only because the organizations themselves have historically been more corrupt than the Governments that they controlled, but they provide one of the most horrible feelings of false hope that people are willing to fight and even die to keep. Any other opinions?

People have two basic motivations: love and fear.

Fear is the more natural of the two, unfortuneately, and it takes an investment of energy and will, coupled with correct knowlege to overcome fear.

So people are more likely to act out of fear, because its easier to give in to fear than it is to overcome it.

I find there are 3 reactions to fear: Run/Hide, Control, and Destroy.

Run/Hide: Get away from the thing you are afraid of, ignore it, put it out of sight and out of mind. people that wont go to the doctor when they know something is wrong with them, because they are afraid it might be something serious, are a good example of this reaction.

Control: Seek to control the thing you are afraid of, dominate it, because something you control can't hurt you, so you don't have to be afraid of it.
Jim Crow laws in the south that were instituted after slavery was abolished are an example of this, the whites were afraid the blacks would hurt them if they didn't keep them down.

Destroy: usually a method of last resort, if you can't run/hide from, or control the thing you are afraid of, you seek to kill, destroy, or other wise render it unable to hurt you. I was stung by a wasp once as a child, from that time forward I ran when ever I saw one (run/hide), and if I couldn't get away from it I would kill it, and if they built their nests in my back yard I would knock them down and smash them, if I could do so safely.

Most religions are founded on principles of love. Fear, in my opinion is a natural opposite of love, so the two cannot exist in the same heart at the same time.

Now when you have people running a religion that is based on love, whos minds are controlled by fear, some horrible distortions can occur. A person who's heart is full of fear cannot properly understand doctrines that are based on love.

The concept of control ought to be anethema to religions based on love. But many people let fear twist their love for others into a distorted shape. 'I'm forceing you to do what's right for your own good', is a prime example of such a distortion. The muslim and christian religions have committed some pretty foul attrocities when those who were in control of those religions where motivated by fear and not love. When they couldn't pursuade people to follow their systems of religion, they sought to compell those people to conform (Control), and those who would not confrom where labeled as heretics or infidels and then those religious leaders incited their followers to persecute or even kill those people (Destroy).

It all makes perfect sense when you understand the psychology of fear. Don't blame the religions, that are based on love, for the distortions caused by those who know only fear.

China? China has always been a religious nation; their traditional folk beliefs survive to this day, despite the atrocities of the Communist party, and have resurged as their people seek spiritual fulfillment. A nation without spirituality withers and dies because its people lack the sense of purpose and hope that religion brings.

Well, of course, because it exists outside of this universe. To assume that this is all there is requires a lot more faith than to believe that there is something more...if anything, advances in science tell us that there is more out there than anyone could have possibly dreamed of, and the concept of a neat and tidy physical universe is a joke, a relic of the past.



The state controls and perverts religion according to its own desires; it is almost never the other way around because religious beliefs emerge from the bottom and work their way to the top rather than vice versa.
Oh come on, Vetalia, don't feed us this. Religion is not necessary for a society to function. I'll agree that oppressing it is definitely wrong and can lead to a lot of morale issues, especially since their human rights are being oppressed, but in a free society I don't think religion is that necessary. Note all the athiests on here who are getting along just fine without belief in a sky fairy.

Cruellest device of control?

Time. It's a damn vice! A pox on thee time!

the cruelest form of Control? Education. it's indoctrination disguised as "Free Thinking".

granted, like most forms of control, it's not 100% effective. But for those who are taken, they loose their ability to think outside the confined areas of what they are taught. Instead of finding new paths and making new innovations, many "Educated" persons are trapped within the thought processes of those that "Educated" them.

Firmly believing in what they are taught, they often deny evidence that are contrary to what they believe, they scoff new ways of looking at the world, rely on "proofs" that they themselves can perform and duplicate 100% successfully. These people don't realize that instead of being "Free Thinkers" they are actually narrow-minded and are wearing mental blinders that block all except what they are taught.

What makes Education the Cruelest form of control?
1) The sad fact that many "educators" don't realize they are doing this to their subjects. Many believe they are setting their subjects, called "Students" free when infact, they are placing chains on them that require mythical strength to break.
2) The lure of a "Good Education" draws many to these centers where this diabolical form of control is placed. Many go into debt to enter these places... yes, they pay to be put under someone elses control.
3) the Ideals of the instructors (yes, there are many, for each student will latch onto an "instructor" for various of reasons.) get transferred to their students. sometimes the Ideals of these instructors conflict with what the subject learns from their parents, creating strife where the Ideals of the Instructors tend to end up in control of the subject.
4) The master is Legion. Many subjects are used to control these "students" Religion, Science, Math, Arts... Each one striving to gain control of their students. each one demanding and none forgiving should one place an emphasis on the other. the mark of one who is under the control of educators are ones that place all their faith in ONE aspect of the universe with near total disreguard to the others. Nevermind that the great thinkers of the past dabbled in multitude of subjects, now its either Religion or Science. Arts or Math, Physcial Prowess or Mental Prowess... and it's because of these imagined and reinforced rivalries that make the control methods used invisible to all.

Think about your own experiences in these Social Control - Harmonization Orderly Organized Locations (SCHOOL)s you are given many subjects... then as it progresses, you find yourself being compartmentalized into many "Cliques" Jocks, Nerds, Geeks, Thespians, Goths/Emos, etc... then to further control you, they make you believe that you need to attend Universalizing Sites (Universities) inorder to succeed in life. when you get out, you are brainwashed into thinking that you are free and that your offspings need to attend these SCHOOLS and recieve an education in the same format that you did. the process is self sustaining, built on the process of deluding each Student and locking them in a never ending loop.

Many subconconciously realize what was done and attempt to break the cycle, by using various forms of the same process. Most call it Homeschooling. some succeed in keeping their offspring from being turned into narrow-minded "Educated" persons, but others end up having their offspring sent to "schools".

Truly a cruel and devious form of control.

QFT

*hides from people who don't understand*

Why would I, a flawed human being, trust myself to make up a philosophy?

Because all philosophies are made by flawed human beings

the cruelest form of Control? Education. it's indoctrination disguised as "Free Thinking".

granted, like most forms of control, it's not 100% effective. But for those who are taken, they loose their ability to think outside the confined areas of what they are taught. Instead of finding new paths and making new innovations, many "Educated" persons are trapped within the thought processes of those that "Educated" them.

Firmly believing in what they are taught, they often deny evidence that are contrary to what they believe, they scoff new ways of looking at the world, rely on "proofs" that they themselves can perform and duplicate 100% successfully. These people don't realize that instead of being "Free Thinkers" they are actually narrow-minded and are wearing mental blinders that block all except what they are taught.

What makes Education the Cruelest form of control?
1) The sad fact that many "educators" don't realize they are doing this to their subjects. Many believe they are setting their subjects, called "Students" free when infact, they are placing chains on them that require mythical strength to break.
2) The lure of a "Good Education" draws many to these centers where this diabolical form of control is placed. Many go into debt to enter these places... yes, they pay to be put under someone elses control.
3) the Ideals of the instructors (yes, there are many, for each student will latch onto an "instructor" for various of reasons.) get transferred to their students. sometimes the Ideals of these instructors conflict with what the subject learns from their parents, creating strife where the Ideals of the Instructors tend to end up in control of the subject.
4) The master is Legion. Many subjects are used to control these "students" Religion, Science, Math, Arts... Each one striving to gain control of their students. each one demanding and none forgiving should one place an emphasis on the other. the mark of one who is under the control of educators are ones that place all their faith in ONE aspect of the universe with near total disreguard to the others. Nevermind that the great thinkers of the past dabbled in multitude of subjects, now its either Religion or Science. Arts or Math, Physcial Prowess or Mental Prowess... and it's because of these imagined and reinforced rivalries that make the control methods used invisible to all.

Think about your own experiences in these Social Control - Harmonization Orderly Organized Locations (SCHOOL)s you are given many subjects... then as it progresses, you find yourself being compartmentalized into many "Cliques" Jocks, Nerds, Geeks, Thespians, Goths/Emos, etc... then to further control you, they make you believe that you need to attend Universalizing Sites (Universities) inorder to succeed in life. when you get out, you are brainwashed into thinking that you are free and that your offspings need to attend these SCHOOLS and recieve an education in the same format that you did. the process is self sustaining, built on the process of deluding each Student and locking them in a never ending loop.

Many subconconciously realize what was done and attempt to break the cycle, by using various forms of the same process. Most call it Homeschooling. some succeed in keeping their offspring from being turned into narrow-minded "Educated" persons, but others end up having their offspring sent to "schools".

Truly a cruel and devious form of control.

QFT

Emphasis mine