NationStates Jolt Archive

"The complexity of this situation goes far beyond what the Mexican government can do, and I dare say, any government," he said. "Corn has moved from $81 a ton, to nearly $160 in a couple of months.

"We will be severe, firm and relentless in cases of speculative abuse," he said.

The recent price increases in the flat corn bread, driven by soaring U.S. demand for ethanol fuel made from corn, have pushed up inflation and hurt millions of Mexican households that serve tortillas with nearly every meal.

1. Doesn't corn ethanol use more energy than it saves?
2. I think they deserve it for continuously breaking our laws and spreading their filth through illegal immigration. Legal immigrants, as always, are exempt from these remarks. :)

We should have conquered all of Mexico when we had the chance.

No, corn ethanol is mildly energy positive; it's 1.2:1 or so. However, corn ethanol in and of itself isn't sufficient to meet a huge share of oil demand; it's more of a stepping stone to cellulosic ethanol than anything else. For reference, cellulosic ethanol gets about 10:1 energy return, making it as energy positive as a barrel of crude oil.

And anyways, if Mexico wants cheaper corn they need to grow it themselves. We don't have a responsibility to spend our tax dollars feeding them; if anything, our dumping of corn on the market hurt them by driving rural farmers out of business and forcing them to either migrate to the US or to the cities, worsening the problem.

There's also the giant dead zone that our corn cultivation has caused in the Gulf of Mexico, meaning we're trading one problem for another.

I believe that Brazil is using sugar, which is much more effective.

It's much easier to grow corn in the US than it is to grow Sugar Cane.

I believe that Brazil is using sugar, which is much more effective.
You can even use hemp...

By the way, I heard the other day that Europe is starting to sit on too much petrol which is starting to pile up as a byproduct to diesel production (not actually sure whether that is the case though). No one's driving petrol cars there anymore, so they're having trouble selling all the petrol.

Maybe Europe will be exporting petrol soon. :p

1. Doesn't corn ethanol use more energy than it saves?
2. I think they deserve it for continuously breaking our laws and spreading their filth through illegal immigration. Legal immigrants, as always, are exempt from these remarks. :)

It was originally attributed to that, but the shortage wasn't cause by the ethanol thing. Ethanol uses yellow corn for production, but Mexicans use the white corn for tortillas. The real problem was in the distribution chain in Mexico, where corn monopolies made it hard for corn to flow to the tortilla makers.

The government has already taken measures but more is needed to break up the monopolies if the problem is to be solved for real.

It's much easier to grow corn in the US than it is to grow Sugar Cane.

But thanks to global warming that won't be the case for long. It is a well known fact that the US is provoking global warming to be able to grow sugar cane and convert it into ethanol because oil is running out :p

It's much easier to grow corn in the US than it is to grow Sugar Cane.

What about beets? They killed the Caribbean cause they could be grown in less specific environs.

By the way, I heard the other day that Europe is starting to sit on too much petrol which is starting to pile up as a byproduct to diesel production (not actually sure whether that is the case though). No one's driving petrol cars there anymore, so they're having trouble selling all the petrol.

Maybe Europe will be exporting petrol soon. :p

Actually, you already do. The US is one of the biggest buyers of European gasoline, since during the summer our refining capacity usually isn't sufficient to meet all of our demand needs due to the increases in road travel during the summer months.

Actually, you already do. The US is one of the biggest buyers of European gasoline, since during the summer our refining capacity usually isn't sufficient to meet all of our demand needs due to the increases in road travel during the summer months.

Why don;t we just convert like they somehow managed to...

Why don;t we just convert like they somehow managed to...

Mainly because until last year, the US was not producing ultra-low sulfur diesel fuel. As a result, diesel light-duty vehicles were not capable of meeting US emissions standards, and so car companies simply couldn't sell them. Another problem is cost; the cost of a diesel vehicle is higher than that of a comparable gasoline vehicle, and diesel fuel itself is more expensive making the savings due to improved mileage negligible at this point.

Now that we produce the ULSD necessary to meet those standards, diesel vehicles will become more available than they were in the past. However, it will take some changes in the market to make diesel vehicles more common.

Mainly because until last year, the US was not producing ultra-low sulfur diesel fuel. As a result, diesel light-duty vehicles were not capable of meeting US emissions standards, and so car companies simply couldn't sell them. Another problem is cost; the cost of a diesel vehicle is higher than that of a comparable gasoline vehicle, and diesel fuel itself is more expensive making the savings due to improved mileage negligible at this point.

Now that we produce the ULSD necessary to meet those standards, diesel vehicles will become more available than they were in the past. However, it will take some changes in the market to make diesel vehicles more common.
the only reason diesel is more expensive is because it gets taxed more. it doesn't in europe, making it the fuel of choice.
i remember when it was popular to use LPG in australia, those were the days...

You can even use hemp...

By the way, I heard the other day that Europe is starting to sit on too much petrol which is starting to pile up as a byproduct to diesel production (not actually sure whether that is the case though). No one's driving petrol cars there anymore, so they're having trouble selling all the petrol.

Maybe Europe will be exporting petrol soon. :p

I was in Europe last summer and petrol was still the fuel of choice...

corn isn't that good a source fuel, common prairie grass apparently is far better and cheaper...so I think any corn shortages will be short lived...

the only reason diesel is more expensive is because it gets taxed more. it doesn't in europe, making it the fuel of choice.
i remember when it was popular to use LPG in australia, those were the days...

Yes, although it is also more expensive to produce than gasoline. However, that cost differential is minor compared to the added costs due to taxes.

Mainly because until last year, the US was not producing ultra-low sulfur diesel fuel. As a result, diesel light-duty vehicles were not capable of meeting US emissions standards, and so car companies simply couldn't sell them. Another problem is cost; the cost of a diesel vehicle is higher than that of a comparable gasoline vehicle, and diesel fuel itself is more expensive making the savings due to improved mileage negligible at this point.

Now that we produce the ULSD necessary to meet those standards, diesel vehicles will become more available than they were in the past. However, it will take some changes in the market to make diesel vehicles more common.

It'll cost more when we all get lung cancer from the fumes...forget global warming, pollution is still a HUGE problem.

It'll cost more when we all get lung cancer from the fumes...forget global warming, pollution is still a HUGE problem.

Well, now diesel fuel is much cleaner than it was. The ULSD in use now is not that much dirtier than gasoline, and comes with a number of environmental benefits in terms of improved mileage, which reduces the amount consumed and consequently the pollutants produced.

Of course, it would make more sense to just reduce our demand for fossil fuels (as is the case, actually...US oil demand has fallen for two years in a row) than to switch to diesel fuel.

Well, now diesel fuel is much cleaner than it was. The ULSD in use now is not that much dirtier than gasoline, and comes with a number of environmental benefits in terms of improved mileage, which reduces the amount consumed and consequently the pollutants produced.

Of course, it would make more sense to just reduce our demand for fossil fuels (as is the case, actually...US oil demand has fallen for two years in a row) than to switch to diesel fuel.

It's so damn easy to cut down consumption, it's not even funny.
-recycle plastics or just don't buy them
-save all the number-plastics your town doesnt recycle and find a town that does that you might visit in the future and bring all your collected stuff there
-organize a combined shopping trip with you neighbor(s)
-switch to fluroescent bulbs
-turn off one of the 5 TVs
-tap water is safe for godsake
-walk to school like I usually do, even now in the dead of winter...its good for the soul and lungs

1. Doesn't corn ethanol use more energy than it saves?
Yes it does.

2. I think they deserve it for continuously breaking our laws and spreading their filth through illegal immigration. Legal immigrants, as always, are exempt from these remarks. :)
That's your opinion. Personally I'd like to try putting up a few of my vertical farms, you know the ones that run on coal and run the CO2 into the greenhouses to increase crop yeilds so I can sidestep environmental regulations while getting cheap power from coal. They could be hired to build and run it and I could make a tidy profit for designing the things. That'd bring up the supply and reduce the price.

1. Doesn't corn ethanol use more energy than it saves?
2. I think they deserve it for continuously breaking our laws and spreading their filth through illegal immigration. Legal immigrants, as always, are exempt from these remarks. :)

Perhaps all the Mexicans should stay in Mexico and start growing Corn instead?

You can even use hemp...


Don't even get me started, I'll go all terets...goddammit...

Don't even get me started, I'll go all terets...goddammit...

An issue where this smiley comes in handy, eh? ----> :headbang:

It'll cost more when we all get lung cancer from the fumes...forget global warming, pollution is still a HUGE problem.

Pollution is just so 70s.

Global Warming is the new recycling. :)

I was in Europe last summer and petrol was still the fuel of choice...
Not according to the sales figures for new cars, I believe.

Algaculture all the way man!

2. I think they deserve it for continuously breaking our laws and spreading their filth through illegal immigration. Legal immigrants, as always, are exempt from these remarks. :)
What "filth" do "illegal" Mexican immigrants "spread"?

1. Doesn't corn ethanol use more energy than it saves?


It's not about 'energy', it's abut money.

After all is said and done, corn ethanol is cheaper by a small margin then an equivalent volume of fossil fuel.