NationStates Jolt Archive

How much do you think its capacity for doing good is, and how often do you feel it does it? Why?

Which state?

How much do you think its capacity for doing good is, and how often do you feel it does it? Why?

I think it has the capacity to do good. But often it's so chronically inefficient, and occasionally corrupt, that it just fucks it all up. Take Britain as an example. That's a major hash of a Government, make no mistake about it.

Which state?

THE state.

Edit: This post got time-warped- the one below came first.

One of the best TV shows ever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kw9qnoKlxE

In the West, the State has the potential to create complete equality within a Nation, but because of the self-distrust of itself it rarely does.

I think it is capable of great good, but does both good and bad.

The state is a completely amoral entity, to attempt to assign moralty to a state is as futile as attempting to assigning moralty to crabs or earthworms.

States all have one goal, to increase their own power, there are no good or evil states, just successful and unsuccessful states. When a state has a dangerously small ruling class its running can be perverted by individuals, examples of this include Nazi Germany and North Korea.

The only power to do good the state has is to dissolve itself.

THE state.

Again, which state? There is no such thing as "THE state".

I think that if the state is able to restrain itself to guaranteeing that individuals do not seek to bring force or fraud against others, and providing the infrastructure that is necessary for the market to function, then it can do great good. It is when it steps beyond these bounds that it tends to run into abuses and inefficiencies.

Again, which state? There is no such thing as "THE state".

He means the concept of the state; the state in this context could mean any state, anywhere. Its theoretical.

He means the concept of the state; the state in this context could mean any state, anywhere. Its theoretical.

It's also nonsensical. "THE state" in Sweden is not at all like "THE state" in Belorus or China or the USA or Iran, so saying anything about what "goodness" "THE state" is capable of cannot be done without regard to the specific state of whatever arbitrary country.

THE state.

Edit: This post got time-warped- the one below came first.
Do you want us to come up with an average of the performance of all states, from Denmark to Sudan?

It's also nonsensical. "THE state" in Sweden is not at all like "THE state" in Belorus or China or the USA or Iran, so saying anything about what "goodness" "THE state" is capable of cannot be done without regard to the specific state of whatever arbitrary country.

if you hold that the ability of a particular state to be good is to be found in the particularities of the state, then you must believe that it is possible for 'the state' as a theoretical abstraction to do good. and the question of whether it often does or does not is a purely empirical (though subjective) one. sounds perfectly sensible to me.

if you hold that the ability of a particular state to be good is to be found in the particularities of the state, then you must believe that it is possible for 'the state' as a theoretical abstraction to do good. and the question of whether it often does or does not is a purely empirical (though subjective) one. sounds perfectly sensible to me.

I do not gauge the validity of a notion by what others claim sensible.

Do you want us to come up with an average of the performance of all states, from Denmark to Sudan?

and from uruk to montenegro?

and from uruk to montenegro?

From Uzbekistan to Palau?

Do you want us to come up with an average of the performance of all states, from Denmark to Sudan?

Sure, if you want to.

From Uzbekistan to Palau?

From Niue to Saint Kitts and Nevis?

From Niue to Saint Kitts and Nevis?

From Bhutan to Micronesia?

From Uzbekistan to Palau?

mine was from old to new

mine was from old to new

Oh, I see. I didn't know what Uruk was until I googled it, it made me think of the orcs in the Lord of the Rings.

which one? New Jersey? Ohio? California?

I'm a fan of Oregon, myself.

which one? New Jersey? Ohio? California?

To quote Max Stirner, "Every state is a despotism, be the despot one or many". The State has no potential for good: it can only usurp the sovereignty of the individual and enforce the morality of an elite onto all of us. If you refuse to comply with that morality, then you are deemed to be a criminal and are deprived of your liberty.

The state is mother. The state is father.

It has the potential to do good, but often does not do it.

I do not gauge the validity of a notion by what others claim sensible.

no, but you should attempt to deal with argument that purports to demonstrate it to be such. where did my argument go wrong?

no, but you should attempt to deal with argument that purports to demonstrate it to be such. where did my argument go wrong?

In not amounting to an argument.

The state is a necessary evil. Its powers should be extremely limited.