NationStates Jolt Archive

Well after this new political ad by the Labour party I believe it was, I was wondering if any other aussies on NSG have seen it and what they think of it.
The ad basically has a East Timorese man saying how 100,000 of his people died under Indonesian military rule, and that he thanks Australia for intervening under the UN mandate a few years ago. It then follows with a West Papuan women saying he they have suffered under Indonesian military rules, and that he hopes Australia will intervene.

Now I know it's just political pot-stirring, but how do you feel about this issue, considering Aus and Indonesia just signed a treaty that, among other things, ensures either side will not support dissenter groups in each others borders. And with observers stating West Papua will be another East Timor for Australia. But I am glad it had nothing of the 'biggest Islamic country in the world a few miles from our border' fear mongering garbage I have heard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_invasion_of_East_Timor

no i have not seen it
but we don't have the man power if we like too
hell we all most went to war with Indonesia over East Timor an man power was low back then too

Very interesting.

I don't suppose the ad is available online anywhere, is it? I'd be curious to see it.

I've seen the ad on the TV, but can't seem to find it anywhere online.

I don't think it's by the Labour Party, I think it's done by a free West Papua group.

There's a bit of info on this website (http://www.freewestpapua.com.au/media_release_17_jan_07.php).

We're not gonna do anything.

a) We don't have the troops, we're already doing a lot of stuff overseas
b) Any direct confrontation with Indonesia at this point would be downright STUPID. We've only just managed to get them back on side with us after the diplomatic nightmare that was The East Timor Operation and it took a freaking tsunami to get them to trust us.
c) John Howard would never fuck up his chances to be remembered as the second Robert Menzies.

question - why is indonesia so fucked up?

question - why is indonesia so fucked up?

I don't know. Maybe because it's a bunch of different tribes all forced to be part of the same nation and because of the tension between the extremist elements among the Muslim population and the minority Christians and Hindus?

I don't know. Maybe because it's a bunch of different tribes all forced to be part of the same nation and because of the tension between the extremist elements among the Muslim population and the minority Christians and Hindus?

well obviously. but for some reason that makes no sense to me the people in charge refuse to let it be split up, even resorting to mass murder to avoid doing so. honestly, are timor and papua and aceh that awesome?

well obviously. but for some reason that makes no sense to me the people in charge refuse to let it be split up, even resorting to mass murder to avoid doing so. honestly, are timor and papua and aceh that awesome?

I think so, but only because I'm a fan of Indonesian martial arts and traditional weapons.

Don't be afraid to Indonesia. Although they have the largest territory in Southeast Asia, their army is about 1/10 from the Singaporeans.

They often use their small army to intimidate 'rebel' provinces in Aceh or in Papua New Guinea. If foreign intervention comes, they can do nothing. :D

All they could do is to talk...and talk.

All they could do is to talk...and talk.

unfortunately, that's all the australians do too...

well obviously. but for some reason that makes no sense to me the people in charge refuse to let it be split up, even resorting to mass murder to avoid doing so. honestly, are timor and papua and aceh that awesome?

I'm not sure about Aceh, but Timor has substantial natural gas resources, and West Papua has a lot of mineral wealth and present mining activity. I suspect that's the motivation, since the elites in charge probably have some money invested over there. ;)

Although they have the largest territory in Southeast Asia, their army is about 1/10 from the Singaporeans.
That's not actually the case.

Like most poorer countries, they have the sort of para-military and militia forces, which are the ones who do the intimidating and commit the atrocities, and they have a more regular military.

And that's actually not too bad. Their air force runs F-16s and Su-27s and Su-30s, for example.

I think it is an anecdotal, emotive, false analogy.

East Timor was never part of the Dutch Colony that formed Indonesia in the first place. Further, Indonesia didn't want East Timor. The war in East Timor was against Muslim Loyalists, and Indonesian Government supported seperatists. Australia would not have touched Timor had Indonesia had a problem with us doing so. Indonesia is the most important friend we have in the region (Sorry NZ, we like you, but really you are that.. well.. important).

On the Other Hand, you have West Papua. Originally part of the Dutch colony that formed Indonesia, they have begun to make unverifiable claims of persecution to supercede the Indonesian 'no-secession' stance. If West Papua were allowed to seceed, then there is absolutely no reason why Aceh could not, and then why not Ipoh, a few of the stricter muslim regions, and tourism-wealthy Bali.

The thing you have to understand about Indonesia is that they are far from being a United country. SusiloBambangYudhoyono is doing all he can keeping the place together by handing out massive Autonomy to 'trouble' states. A successful secession in WP would destroy Indonesia. The only reason Megawati got away with the East Timor affair was by throwing full government support behind 'casting off' and illegitimate territory. She did everything she could to avoid the air of secession. I personally think they shouldn't have even run the risk. I do however understand that the Portuguese-endorsed Catholic extremists were getting to hard to deal with discreetly.

On the Other Hand, you have West Papua. Originally part of the Dutch colony that formed Indonesia, they have begun to make unverifiable claims of persecution to supercede the Indonesian 'no-secession' stance.

that's ridiculous

indonesia has been acting like asses towards papua since fucking 1961, when they attacked the dutch in order to stop the dutch from letting them declare independence. and then there was the orwellianly named 'act of free choice'. you don't find it odd that out of the entire adult male and female population that was eligible to vote, only 1025 men did and all of them voted for the indonesian army to not kill their families...i mean "for integration".

fuck indonesia

that's ridiculous

indonesia has been acting like asses towards papua since fucking 1961, when they attacked the dutch in order to stop the dutch from letting them declare independence. and then there was the orwellianly named 'act of free choice'. you don't find it odd that out of the entire adult male and female population that was eligible to vote, only 1025 men did and all of them voted for the indonesian army to not kill their families...i mean "for integration".

fuck indonesia

Papua is nothing more than a bank for the Indonesians to strip of it's resources, they don't give a fuck about the natives.

Indonesia like many African countries is a fucked up country created by colonialism it shouldn't exist in it's present formation. A referendum should have been conducted on each island on their choice of country, at the very least the Islands should have been divided along ethnic or religious lines.