NationStates Jolt Archive

My question is simple: How do we distinguish a need from a want? And are the two of different worth or value?

For example: I may need to eat food to survive. And I may want to play a PC game for entertainment.

Traditionally one might say that the former is a need, and the latter is a want, and that it would be reasonable for everyone's needs to be fulfilled first, and only then come peoples' wants.

So is a need strictly defined by its necessity for survival? And if it is, does gruel count as fulfilling the need, but the occasional steak does not?

Would someone who only gets to eat the basic nutrients required to survive, never gets to go to school and only gets basic medical care required for the person to not die have all his or her needs fulfilled?

There is a massive gray area between needs and wants, to the point where I would say that the two are just different ways of looking at one and the same thing. If you only get your needs fulfilled, you're unhappy. If you only get your wants fulfilled...well, you'd be unhappy except that your wants always include your needs as well. In fact, a need might be the outside impulse, and the want is your brain's reaction to it. So a want is a need properly formatted within the mind to make you take action.

And just like you wouldn't go out and say "your want to watch TV is stupid, while your want to play a game is good" and then try and impose that view on the person, I don't think you can really judge what is a need and what is a want, and which should be valued more highly.

So is there really a difference between a need and a want? Can you say that everyone's needs should be taken care of before anyone's wants?

I don't think it is possible to create a definite hierarchy of needs without some contradictions or gray area. I think that most people would agree it is more important to assure that no one is starving to death before we buy the caviar, but then again, some might not.

Up to the individual to define what their "needs" are, and what their "wants" are. Others have no place substituting the individual's judgement for theirs.

i need sleep or i will collapse. i want to keep clicking the refresh button on my browser so i can check for new posts. the first is necessary for me to survive. the second is a compulsion brought about by boredom and the desire to avoid the things i have to do if i want to get my degree.

I always figured "needs" and "wants" had little significance other than as subjective markers for the elasticity of the demand curve.

Needs? That's easily defined as a 10'x10' room with a cot, a bowl of gruel, with crackers on the side.

i.e. Prison in 1920's US.

Although modern prisons offer much more in the way of bonus points, including televisions, gyms, libraries and institutional, but tolerable, food.



Which is why I loathe to use the concept of "need" for anything. It's pretty worthless, as even the "needs" of slaves were provided for.

My question is simple: How do we distinguish a need from a want? And are the two of different worth or value?

For example: I may need to eat food to survive. And I may want to play a PC game for entertainment.

Traditionally one might say that the former is a need, and the latter is a want
Maybe I need to play violent computer games to stop me wanting to bash stupid fuckers heads in who block the esculators by standing right in the middle.

You can't distinguish a need from a want. Economic value is subjective.

You can't distinguish a need from a want. Economic value is subjective.

What? No..

You can't always get what you want - and if you try sometime, you find, you get what you need.

well i dont know if everyone's needs have to be met before i start getting any of my wants

but

i do think that society should try to make sure that its possible for everyone go get their basic needs met--food, a warm place to stay, clothing, education perhaps.

What? No..
It is.

You can't always get what you want - and if you try sometime, you find, you get what you need.

Oh yeah, hey hey hey, oh...

Oh yeah, hey hey hey, oh...

Oh yes! Woo!

i do think that society should try to make sure that its possible for everyone go get their basic needs met--food, a warm place to stay, clothing, education perhaps.
Food is for survival. A warm place and clothes is for survival in some places, for comfort in others. Education is not necessary to survive, it's a tool to be able to take care of one's wants in the future.

That's what I'm saying...it's impossible to define what a want is.

Food is for survival. A warm place and clothes is for survival in some places, for comfort in others. Education is not necessary to survive, it's a tool to be able to take care of one's wants in the future.

That's what I'm saying...it's impossible to define what a want is.

true.

but just like human rights, a society can define what it considers needs and these can include education, health care, even employment.

Need is what is required while Want is an option or goal.

so yes, 3 meals a day of Oatmeal will keep you alive. Eating steak every meal can be a want since you don't need to eat steak every day. just as long as you take in the neutrients you need.

I can live without cable, Television, and even my computer/videogames. I don't WANT to, but I can.

Now some wants will have needs. for instance...
I can live without an education, but the quality of that life will be piss poor. so if I want the best life I can have, I NEED an education.

I want to play on the computer, for that I NEED electricity and thus I NEED to pay the Bills, and therefore, I NEED a job.

But if I just Want to live. then I need food, water, shelter and keeping healthy.

What? No..

Well, if so, please tell me, in utils (the objective measure of utility), the exact value of the following objects to you.


Stapler

Bill Gates' house

Punch in the face

Taco

Tic-tac

If you can't come up with an actual, proven amount (i.e. not made up), then this demonstrates that economic value is completely subjective.

Well, if so, please tell me, in utils (the objective measure of utility), the exact value of the following objects to you.


Stapler

Bill Gates' house

Punch in the face

Taco

Tic-tac

If you can't come up with an actual, proven amount (i.e. not made up), then this demonstrates that economic value is completely subjective.

Hah! You got him there!

Maslow's hierarchy of needs:

Maslow has set up a hierarchy of five levels of basic needs. Beyond these needs, higher levels of needs exist. These include needs for understanding, esthetic appreciation and purely spiritual needs. In the levels of the five basic needs, the person does not feel the second need until the demands of the first have been satisfied, nor the third until the second has been satisfied, and so on. Maslow's basic needs are as follows:

Physiological Needs
These are biological needs. They consist of needs for oxygen, food, water, and a relatively constant body temperature. They are the strongest needs because if a person were deprived of all needs, the physiological ones would come first in the person's search for satisfaction.

Safety Needs
When all physiological needs are satisfied and are no longer controlling thoughts and behaviors, the needs for security can become active. Adults have little awareness of their security needs except in times of emergency or periods of disorganization in the social structure (such as widespread rioting). Children often display the signs of insecurity and the need to be safe.

Needs of Love, Affection and Belongingness
When the needs for safety and for physiological well-being are satisfied, the next class of needs for love, affection and belongingness can emerge. Maslow states that people seek to overcome feelings of loneliness and alienation. This involves both giving and receiving love, affection and the sense of belonging.

Needs for Esteem
When the first three classes of needs are satisfied, the needs for esteem can become dominant. These involve needs for both self-esteem and for the esteem a person gets from others. Humans have a need for a stable, firmly based, high level of self-respect, and respect from others. When these needs are satisfied, the person feels self-confident and valuable as a person in the world. When these needs are frustrated, the person feels inferior, weak, helpless and worthless.

Needs for Self-Actualization
When all of the foregoing needs are satisfied, then and only then are the needs for self-actualization activated. Maslow describes self-actualization as a person's need to be and do that which the person was "born to do." "A musician must make music, an artist must paint, and a poet must write." These needs make themselves felt in signs of restlessness. The person feels on edge, tense, lacking something, in short, restless. If a person is hungry, unsafe, not loved or accepted, or lacking self-esteem, it is very easy to know what the person is restless about. It is not always clear what a person wants when there is a need for self-actualization.


As you see, someone actually made a study of this.

Stapler 9

Bill Gates' house 1

Punch in the face 79

Taco 1 x 10^67

Tic-tac -2


Tangent = sine/cosine

As you see, someone actually made a study of this.
Since I do a Management degree at uni, I've had my share of studying this particular decision-making aide.

Because in fact Maslow's pyramid is not a study, not an accurate description. It's a simple model of employee motivation, meant to help managers get their employees working more efficiently.

Or, to rephrase my OP: How would you decide which want/need goes where in Maslow's pyramid?

Up to the individual to define what their "needs" are, and what their "wants" are. Others have no place substituting the individual's judgement for theirs.
Agreed, hence democracy.

Democracy is collectivist decision making, not individual.
Indeed.

I would say that it is impossible to separate the two, as most people would not see the point of existence if many of their "wants" were not fulfilled.

Therefore wants are often needs and vice versa.

Agreed, hence democracy.

Democracy is collectivist decision making, not individual.

We should take a lesson from the German language and recognise that the distinction between needs and wants is illusory.

Really, what you're doing by drawing a line between them is ranking people's preferences. I need air to breathe, but I also need a high-quality PC to play Medieval 2:Total War.

But if I don't want to play Medieval 2, then I don't need a PC. Similarly, if I don't want to breathe, then I don't need air.

If I want something, I need it.

If other people need something, they only really want it. And even then they probably don't even want it, but just don't know any better.

If I want something, I need it.

If other people need something, they only really want it. And even then they probably don't even want it, but just don't know any better.
I like the sound of that. Sort of like, if I say so, it's the Truth. If you say so, it's your opinion. :D

I like the sound of that. Sort of like, if I say so, it's the Truth. If you say so, it's your opinion. :D

Pretty much! I hold both philosophies.

But mine is too clunky to be good as a t-shirt. Which is too bad. Cuz I have thought a lot lately about the t-shirt business.

We should take a lesson from the German language and recognise that the distinction between needs and wants is illusory.

Really, what you're doing by drawing a line between them is ranking people's preferences. I need air to breathe, but I also need a high-quality PC to play Medieval 2:Total War.

But if I don't want to play Medieval 2, then I don't need a PC. Similarly, if I don't want to breathe, then I don't need air.

Most of the "needs" listed in the thread are really things necessary for life. But no one needs to live, and they may or may not want to live.