NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.itshinesforall.com/2007/01/exclusive_note.html

Mr. Carter sent the letter to the Justice Department's Office of Special Investigations, with the following note attached:

To Director, O.S.I.

I hope that, in cases like

this, that special consideration

can be given to affected families for humanitarian reasons.

Jimmy Carter


Who was he interceding for?

Bartesch, who had immigrated to the U.S. and lived in Chicago, admitted to Sher's office and the court that he had voluntarily joined the Waffen SS and had served in the notorious SS Death’s Head Division at the Mauthausen concentration camp where, at the hands of Bartesch and his cohorts, many thousands of prisoners were gassed, shot, starved and worked to death. He also confessed to having concealed his service at the infamous camp from U.S. immigration officials.

"We had an extraordinary piece of evidence against him -- a book that was kept by the SS and captured by the American armed forces when they liberated Mauthausen," Sher said. "We called it the death book. It was a roster that the Germans required them to keep that identified SS guards as they extended weapons to murder the inmates and prisoners."

An entry in the book for October 10, 1943 registered the shooting death of Max Oschorn, a French Jewish prisoner. His murderer was also recorded: SS guard Martin Bartesch. "It was a most chilling document," Sher recalled.

The same evidence was used by the U.S. military in postwar trials as the basis for execution or long prison sentences for many identified SS guards.

I get the impression from this, and from his recent book, that he actually is an anti-semite. Apparently, a lot of people in the organizations of which he is a member, agree that he is - and have quit in protest.

Smear season? Or a "throwin shit ta see if it dun stick" competition....

As unprofessional as this response will be, it will serve its purpose ten fold:

Anti-Semite or not, Jimmy Carter is a moron. He is regarded by many as one of the worst presidents the country has ever had. He needs to stop "interceding" on behalf of anyone.

That's unfortunate. I always liked Carter.

Remember folks "doing our job" doesn't count when applied to Nazis.

Yawn. Another, "git teh labrals" thread. Brought to you by the guy who stole the name of a video game because original thought is a foriegn concept.

Maybe he just believes that the 80 year old man who hasnt hurt anyone in ~60 years isnt a danger to society.

You know, they'd have a better assertion if the handwriting they claimed matched actually matched. It doesn't.

It looks like a rather decent forgery, though. I'll give that much credit.

I get the impression from this, and from his recent book, that he actually is an anti-semite. Apparently, a lot of people in the organizations of which he is a member, agree that he is - and have quit in protest.

You mean the 14 members of the 200 member Carter Centre Advisory board?

Any reason you left out the numbers, or are you referring to another incident?

Ignoring the Carter issue.

I wish I could say that I am fully in agreement with my own feelings on the matter of the German fellow. The holocaust was such a black stain on the history of humanity, and I have never been a proponent of being weak on crime (certainly not industrialized murder) but...

Human psychology has come so far in the past 50 years that I cannot even convince myself that I would have been innocent in such a situation. Not that that is any excuse of course, but...

I really dont know where Im going with this. I am overcome with both sympathy and contempt for the man.

Yawn. Another, "git teh labrals" thread. Brought to you by the guy who stole the name of a video game because original thought is a foriegn concept.

Well, so what? How many "get the conservatives" threads are there?

You know, they'd have a better assertion if the handwriting they claimed matched actually matched. It doesn't.

It looks like a rather decent forgery, though. I'll give that much credit.

It's better than decent if it is a forgery. Even the lowercase letters match.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=24047_Jimmy_Carter_Interceded_for_Nazi_Murderer&only

It's better than decent if it is a forgery. Even the lowercase letters match.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=24047_Jimmy_Carter_Interceded_for_Nazi_Murderer&only

Well, I'm seeing plenty of lowercase letters that don't match.

Edit: And oddly enough, the letters aren't the most important part of identifying handwriting.

http://www.itshinesforall.com/2007/01/exclusive_note.html



Who was he interceding for?



I get the impression from this, and from his recent book, that he actually is an anti-semite. Apparently, a lot of people in the organizations of which he is a member, agree that he is - and have quit in protest.

15 members did resign from the Carter Center but none I know of called him an anti-Semite. They resigned because they felt he had moved from to an objective agent to one of advocacy for one-side over the other.

That being said, Carter was one of the worst presidents in the last 50-years and has never met a left-winged despot he didn't like.

Carter is a fool I will agree but I wouldn't go so far to say he is an anti-Semite. I don't think there is any evidence to support that charge.

Well, so what? How many "get the conservatives" threads are there?

And those are getting boring too... Unless, of course, I'm the one who starts it ;)

Double standard, you say? You'll get over it.

You mean the 14 members of the 200 member Carter Centre Advisory board?

Any reason you left out the numbers, or are you referring to another incident?

It is up to 15 as of a few days ago.

Ignoring the Carter issue.

I wish I could say that I am fully in agreement with my own feelings on the matter of the German fellow. The holocaust was such a black stain on the history of humanity, and I have never been a proponent of being weak on crime (certainly not industrialized murder) but...

Human psychology has come so far in the past 50 years that I cannot even convince myself that I would have been innocent in such a situation. Not that that is any excuse of course, but...

I really dont know where Im going with this. I am overcome with both sympathy and contempt for the man.

And he was from the Ukraine.

and has never met a left-winged despot he didn't like.

Yeah, Carter's so fond of Brezhnev.

It's better than decent if it is a forgery. Even the lowercase letters match.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=24047_Jimmy_Carter_Interceded_for_Nazi_Murderer&only

I'm not even going to click on the link. If LGF is arguing that Carter is guilty, then I feel very secure in feeling that he is not.

I agree, sometimes you just have to let these things go. Punishing an 80 year old man for war crimes isn't going to solve anything. Hell, Rudolph Hess went absolutely bonkers, and instead of just sending him packing, we wasted time and money 'guarding' him until he died.

That said, Carter is a complete idiot. I'm not saying he's not a good person, but he's an idiot, and is the worst president in modern times.

Oh, and as a preemptive - <Insert anti-Bush reply here>

I'm not even going to click on the link. If LGF is arguing that Carter is guilty, then I feel very secure in feeling that he is not.

"Worst president in US history"....yet nobody mentions this till now...just after his no-holds barred book on Israel....and it comes up via what might be safely called "the usual suspects"

WHAT A FUCKING COINCIDENCE THAT IS, EH?

"Worst president in US history"....yet nobody mentions this till now...just after his no-holds barred book on Israel....and it comes up via what might be safely called "the usual suspects"

WHAT A FUCKING COINCIDENCE THAT IS, EH?

Well, it seems pretty clear that Bush partisans are hoping to move him past Carter in the presidential rankings--too bad it won't work, since anyone who actually looks at the hand Carter was dealt and the steps he took to repair the economic damage left him by Nixon and Johnson realizes he was as responsible for the Reagan economy as Reagan was. Worst ever? Not by a longshot. Not in the top half either, by any stretch, but well from the bottom.

I finally found a use for that course on analysing handwriting that I took with this thread. Well, aside from figuring out what stuff my sister forged.

Remember folks "doing our job" doesn't count when applied to Nazis."Just following orders" should never count.

I am skeptical of this, but then again, I am of the opinion that Jimmy Carter is the best ex-president America has ever had.

Anti semite? Because he was swayed to intercede on behalf of the family of a deported former SS guard back in '87 for humanitarian reasons? No, I don't think so.

This is not a smoking gun.

I am skeptical of this, but then again, I am of the opinion that Jimmy Carter is the best ex-president America has ever had.

Heh...care to explain why you are wiser than an overwhelming majority of American and foreign scholars and historians? Even most democrats, while not proclaiming him "perhaps the worst" as I have, agree that he was ultimately a failure, and is in the bottom half, if not the bottom 4th.

Heh...care to explain why you are wiser than an overwhelming majority of American and foreign scholars and historians? Even most democrats, while not proclaiming him "perhaps the worst" as I have, agree that he was ultimately a failure, and is in the bottom half, if not the bottom 4th.Best ex-president. Ex is the key there.

Ah...my apologies. I took "ex-president" as to mean "Presidents other than Bush" aka "nearly everyone" instead of presidents after their terms.

Why the hell does everyone say that Carter was the worst president? I can name at least 5 presidents worse than him, (reagan, wilson, harding, buchanon, and LBJ)

Heh...care to explain why you are wiser than an overwhelming majority of American and foreign scholars and historians? Even most democrats, while not proclaiming him "perhaps the worst" as I have, agree that he was ultimately a failure, and is in the bottom half, if not the bottom 4th.

The key word in what you quoted was "ex".

That's unfortunate. I always liked Carter. Yeah it's kind of sad. And I still don't know how he's the "Worst" President, he didn't really do anything. Unless that's a 'worst' in itself.

That being said, Carter was one of the worst presidents in the last 50-years and has never met a left-winged despot he didn't like.

QFT.

As President, his "human rights" bullshit applied only to pro-Western, anti-communist governments. If he was truly interested in "human rights," he would readily condemn human rights abuses everywhere, in both friendly and unfriendly countries.

Should this german guy be covered a by a statute of limitations or something... it's been over 60 years...

However, I don't think 'I'm was just doing my job' should be considered an valid excuse. Ever.

Well, so what? How many "get the conservatives" threads are there?

*calculates* About 65% of all NSG threads. (This counts the religous right as well) This is the first "Get teh liberals" thread i've seen...A rare find really, my first in 14 months.

Should this german guy be covered a by a statute of limitations or something... it's been over 60 years...

However, I don't think 'I'm was just doing my job' should be considered an valid excuse. Ever.

Even if they threaten to kill you and your family?

Even if they threaten to kill you and your family?Well then you weren't just doing your job. You were being coerced/blackmailed. There is a difference.

*calculates* About 65% of all NSG threads. (This counts the religous right as well) This is the first "Get teh liberals" thread i've seen...A rare find really, my first in 14 months.

Maybe 65% of all NSG political threads, but the majority of NSG threads aren't political at all. You're sounding a bit victimish, frankly.

Should this german guy be covered a by a statute of limitations or something... it's been over 60 years...This isn't Japan. I'd be severely disappointed if the United States had a statute of limitations on murder and genocide.

Well, so what? How many "get the conservatives" threads are there?
Well, so what?
At least those threads are somewhat based in the thing we call reality.

*calculates* About 65% of all NSG threads. (This counts the religous right as well) This is the first "Get teh liberals" thread i've seen...A rare find really, my first in 14 months.
Itchy is it?
Your hairshirt that is.

Also, you really should get your eyesight tested. First 'hate Liberals' thread in 14 months?
puh-leeze.
Just check out nigh on every thread Eve (and his forebear, Deep Kimchi) has ever made:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/search.php?searchid=668149
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/search.php?searchid=668157

That still don't sway you? Go hunting for Allegheny's (and Corny's) threads.
How about King Bodacious?

Mmm...hairshirt. So nice and scratchy.

Carter was a very poor administrator, who was wracked by multiple major problems during his Presidency, and lately he seems to be hugging left-authoritarians all around the world, but to charge anti-semitism is a bit tough, as for all we know, this might be a poor understanding of the issues at hand on his part.

QFT.

As President, his "human rights" bullshit applied only to pro-Western, anti-communist governments. If he was truly interested in "human rights," he would readily condemn human rights abuses everywhere, in both friendly and unfriendly countries.

WHAT? THAT'S WHY HE'S THE WORST PRESIDENT?
You got to be kidding me?

Because he was smart enough to know that complaining about human Rights from a Communist country is useless.

The fact that he didn't want our allies to be as bad as them is wrong?

But then we turn around and watch Reagan make deals with Fascist Military Juntas that execute thousands and I guess he's an angel right?

QFT.

As President, his "human rights" bullshit applied only to pro-Western, anti-communist governments. If he was truly interested in "human rights," he would readily condemn human rights abuses everywhere, in both friendly and unfriendly countries.

You might be interested to know that, when I visited the Carter library last weekend there were several interesting gifts on display, such as the famed Silk-Screen Cat from Deng Xiaoping, and a collection of shiny stones from Mobutu.

Why the hell does everyone say that Carter was the worst president? I can name at least 5 presidents worse than him, (reagan, wilson, harding, buchanon, and LBJ)

Saying Reagan is purely partisan. It's like me saying FDR. I detest his policies and see him as a socialist...but he was a damn good president. There's a difference.

Wilson was an amazing President, established the Federal Reserve, "busted" trusts in better ways that his predecessors, tried to stay out of World War I and offered to be a mediator instead, realied that war could not be avoided with Germany's unrestricted submarine warfare, proposed the Fourteen Points that Europe at the time was too daft to understand and their refusal ultimately caused WWII, was a staunch opponent of Anti-Semitism, and was a strong supporter of women's rights. If anything, Wilson was one of the greatest presidents we have had.

Harding was pro-buiness and pro-seperation of powers. Once again, you picked him on a political basis, and not an objective one.

Buchanan...ok...he was a racist fuck and failed to prevent the civil war.

LBJ served as VP under Mr. Overrated, but while many despise him for Vietnam, he also did a good bit of good for the country. He was a champion of the black community in regards to segregation, gave federal aid to education, and lowered taxes.

WHAT? THAT'S WHY HE'S THE WORST PRESIDENT?
You got to be kidding me?

Because he was smart enough to know that complaining about human Rights from a Communist country is useless.

The fact that he didn't want our allies to be as bad as them is wrong?

But then we turn around and watch Reagen make deals with Fascist Military Juntas that execute thousands and I guess he's an angel right?

Please let me make one thing clear right up front:

I am not an admirer of Ronald Reagan. He was the opposite of Carter. I despise them both, but for different reasons.

Carter: Attacked "human rights" abuses only in allied countries.

Reagan: Attacked "human rights" abuses only in enemy countries.

In both cases, a deplorable double standard.

WHAT? THAT'S WHY HE'S THE WORST PRESIDENT?
You got to be kidding me?

Because he was smart enough to know that complaining about human Rights from a Communist country is useless.

The fact that he didn't want our allies to be as bad as them is wrong?

But then we turn around and watch Reagen make deals with Fascist Military Juntas that execute thousands and I guess he's an angel right?

I just figured he was a man of his times--of the Cold War specifically. The Commies were the bad guys then, no two ways about it politically speaking. To say otherwise was to end your political career. Doesn't make it right--just explains it somewhat.

You might be interested to know that, when I visited the Carter library last weekend there were several interesting gifts on display, such as the famed Silk-Screen Cat from Deng Xiaoping, and a collection of shiny stones from Mobutu.

Mobutu was perhaps the only pro-Western tyrant Carter got along with.

I just figured he was a man of his times--of the Cold War specifically. The Commies were the bad guys then, no two ways about it politically speaking. To say otherwise was to end your political career. Doesn't make it right--just explains it somewhat.

No - the Soviets - were the bad guys. Anti-Soviet Commies were okay, in our eyes. Look at China, Siad Barre, Ceauşescu, etc.

Saying Reagan is purely partisan. It's like me saying FDR. I detest his policies and see him as a socialist...but he was a damn good president. There's a difference.

Wilson was an amazing President, established the Federal Reserve, "busted" trusts in better ways that his predecessors, tried to stay out of World War I and offered to be a mediator instead, realied that war could not be avoided with Germany's unrestricted submarine warfare, proposed the Fourteen Points that Europe at the time was too daft to understand and their refusal ultimately caused WWII, was a staunch opponent of Anti-Semitism, and was a strong supporter of women's rights. If anything, Wilson was one of the greatest presidents we have had.

Harding was pro-buiness and pro-seperation of powers. Once again, you picked him on a political basis, and not an objective one.

Buchanan...ok...he was a racist fuck and failed to prevent the civil war.

LBJ served as VP under Mr. Overrated, but while many despise him for Vietnam, he also did a good bit of good for the country. He was a champion of the black community in regards to segregation, gave federal aid to education, and lowered taxes.

just so it doesn't get lost...

And those are getting boring too... Unless, of course, I'm the one who starts it ;)
No, yours aren't good either, but Nazz's usually are.

Saying Reagan is purely partisan. It's like me saying FDR. I detest his policies and see him as a socialist...but he was a damn good president. There's a difference.

Wilson was an amazing President, established the Federal Reserve, "busted" trusts in better ways that his predecessors, tried to stay out of World War I and offered to be a mediator instead, realied that war could not be avoided with Germany's unrestricted submarine warfare, proposed the Fourteen Points that Europe at the time was too daft to understand and their refusal ultimately caused WWII, was a staunch opponent of Anti-Semitism, and was a strong supporter of women's rights. If anything, Wilson was one of the greatest presidents we have had.

Harding was pro-buiness and pro-seperation of powers. Once again, you picked him on a political basis, and not an objective one.

Buchanan...ok...he was a racist fuck and failed to prevent the civil war.

LBJ served as VP under Mr. Overrated, but while many despise him for Vietnam, he also did a good bit of good for the country. He was a champion of the black community in regards to segregation, gave federal aid to education, and lowered taxes.Reagan wasn't one of the worst, but he gets way more credit than he deserves. Same with Wilson. But you're defending Harding? That makes me question your ability to walk and chew gum at the same time.

To say otherwise was to end your political career. Doesn't make it right--just explains it somewhat.

Didn't end Carter's career.

Mobutu was perhaps the only pro-Western tyrant Carter got along with.

Indeed, I found the gifts he received from abroad absolutely fascinating. I was in quite a "ooooo! shinies!" mood. There was this little perfume case in the shape of a peacock, made out of something more expensive than my mind can even comprehend.

What I did find funny was his rather large display of gifts he got from the Shah, if I recall correctly, one of the things he received was a gigantic gold-plated pitcher.

This isn't Japan. I'd be severely disappointed if the United States had a statute of limitations on murder and genocide.

Well, in this case the punishment - after living in the US from 1958, and using "same evidence [as was] used by the U.S. military in postwar trials as the basis for execution or long prison sentences for many identified SS guards" - was deportation. And it wasn't even declared a criminal punishment.

So you can be disappointed regardless ;)

Reagan wasn't one of the worst, but he gets way more credit than he deserves. Same with Wilson. But you're defending Harding? That makes me question your ability to walk and chew gum at the same time.

You've yet to say anything against him. I'm in no way saying Harding was a great president...he only served how long, after all. Harding wasn't the greatest person and his administration was involved in multiple scandles, and I do hold that against him, but I tend to hold results of a presidency as more important than a president's morals. He's not "good" because of the other stuff he did, and what was "bad" about him was hardly around long enough to have lasting effect.

Indeed, I found the gifts he received from abroad absolutely fascinating. I was in quite a "ooooo! shinies!" mood. There was this little perfume case in the shape of a peacock, made out of something more expensive than my mind can even comprehend.

What I did find funny was his rather large display of gifts he got from the Shah, if I recall correctly, one of the things he received was a gigantic gold-plated pitcher.

The Shah was one of the guys he betrayed.

The Shah was one of the guys he betrayed.

Indeed, part of why I found the Shah's gifts immensely amusing. The Shah was still trying to stay on the good side of the US, but he was being totally ignored. Carter cut him off and let his government hang.

Now Jimmy Carter has gifts sent to him by the Shah on open display at his library.

The irony is very amusing.

http://www.itshinesforall.com/2007/01/exclusive_note.html
I get the impression from this, and from his recent book, that he actually is an anti-semite. Apparently, a lot of people in the organizations of which he is a member, agree that he is - and have quit in protest.
You are a hypocrite, and you are anti-Muslim. I suppose religious minorities only deserve respect when they've got a lot of guns and a powerful lobby in the US government?