NationStates Jolt Archive

Okay, I reckon this is all fine and dandy lock her up in a mental hospital, she only threw her 3 small kids in the San Francisco Bay.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070117/ap_on_re_us/children_in_bay

This really pisses me off though. Towards the end of the article it says how she was admitted in a mental hospital six times from Feb '04 to Aug of '05 plus her social worker was warned that the children may be in danger the day they were murdered by the mother. The state and the social worker failed to protect these children (obviously, the mother failed to protect her kids) I think the social worker and the state needs to take accountability for their part in failure and should not be let off scot free. Where's the Justice? or am I just overreacting...

Also note how the Judge on the case nullified the Guilty verdicts given by the jury.

Okay, I reckon this is all fine and dandy lock her up in a mental hospital, she only threw her 3 small kids in the San Francisco Bay.

or am I just overreacting...


1) Whats wrong with putting her away? She's insane.

2) yup

She should be executed, like the good old days.

1) Whats wrong with putting her away? She's insane.

2) yup

nothings wrong with locking her up in the nut house except for she can possibly be let out as long as a doctor finds her to be sane.

The problem is with the social worker and the state who obviously had signs that the kids are and were in danger and allowed them to remain in the mothers custody after knowing she was crazy. That's the problem.

One would suppose that it all hinges upon whether or not she apprieciated the nature and quality of her actions. (I assume we can discount the irresistable impluse defense since it took until three children to discover this compulsion).

Okay, I reckon this is all fine and dandy lock her up in a mental hospital, she only threw her 3 small kids in the San Francisco Bay.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070117/ap_on_re_us/children_in_bay

This really pisses me off though. Towards the end of the article it says how she was admitted in a mental hospital six times from Feb '04 to Aug of '05 plus her social worker was warned that the children may be in danger the day they were murdered by the mother. The state and the social worker failed to protect these children (obviously, the mother failed to protect her kids) I think the social worker and the state needs to take accountability for their part in failure and should not be let off scot free. Where's the Justice? or am I just overreacting...

Also note how the Judge on the case nullified the Guilty verdicts given by the jury.

I agree that their was a failure on the part of the state ... though I am not sure right now of their ability or knowledge of the situation.

Though I see nothing wrong with locking her in a mental institution ... if killing your 3 kids is not insane I don't know what is.

She should be executed, like the good old days.

agreed but the judge overruled the verdict of the jury.

if she is mentally ill, she needs to be locked up........oh, wait, they did, until she is well enough to get out (which may be never.)

If the state of mental healthcare was a little better in this country the kids might still be alive. I have a friend who was told he would have to make a suicide attempt before he would qualify for the low cost clinic. And I'm bipolar and must drive 45 miles to the nearest psychiatrist. Fortunately I have insurance, because the nearest low cost clinic is closer to 70 miles.

She should be executed, like the good old days.

For what purpose? To deter other crazy people? I am not sure that it will exactly work that way

nothings wrong with locking her up in the nut house except for she can possibly be let out as long as a doctor finds her to be sane.

The problem is with the social worker and the state who obviously had signs that the kids are and were in danger and allowed them to remain in the mothers custody after knowing she was crazy. That's the problem.

A lot of women are crazy, only a handful massacre their kids.

Insanity case victory? Who won?

If the state of mental healthcare was a little better in this country the kids might still be alive. I have a friend who was told he would have to make a suicide attempt before he would qualify for the low cost clinic. And I'm bipolar and must drive 45 miles to the nearest psychiatrist. Fortunately I have insurance, because the nearest low cost clinic is closer to 70 miles.

No doubt. You might think I'm a neo-liberal git in many respects, but healthcare in this country is a disgrace. I don't know the specifics of your situation but I'm willing to guess that if you had proper healthcare your situation would be radically different and cheaper for the rest of us. (That's not a dig at you BTW).

16% of GDP to cover about 75% of the population.

Ridiculous.

nothings wrong with locking her up in the nut house except for she can possibly be let out as long as a doctor finds her to be sane.

The problem is with the social worker and the state who obviously had signs that the kids are and were in danger and allowed them to remain in the mothers custody after knowing she was crazy. That's the problem.

So you're in favor of raising taxes in order to fund pay for more social workers and a better mental health care system? Glad to hear it, Comrade Bodacious.

I, for one, am appalled that Pat Robertson hasn't defended this woman. He should recognize his kin.

Insanity case victory? Who won?

Insanity! http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/aetsch/cheeky-smiley-004.gif

I, for one, am appalled that Pat Robertson hasn't defended this woman. He should recognize his kin.

Amen to that, man.

A lot of women are crazy, only a handful massacre their kids.

Oh yeah? You'd be crazy, too, if your insides fell out every 28 days or so! :D

I doubt the numbers of people, not just women, who do away with their families have gone up more than proportionally to the opulation, it's just that 50 years ago you wouldn't have heard about this case unless you lived in the vicinity.

So you're in favor of raising taxes in order to fund pay for more social workers and a better mental health care system? Glad to hear it, Comrade Bodacious.
Fucking ideologues.

Fucking ideologues.

Yes, damn those people who expect a solution instead of just pointing out the problem!

If the state of mental healthcare was a little better in this country the kids might still be alive. I have a friend who was told he would have to make a suicide attempt before he would qualify for the low cost clinic. And I'm bipolar and must drive 45 miles to the nearest psychiatrist. Fortunately I have insurance, because the nearest low cost clinic is closer to 70 miles.

I know, I had to lie and say that I was suicidal once to get to see the doctor to change my medicine.....

Your quite right King Bodacious, this is clearly the entire fault of Liberal anti-family democrat socialists.

Fucking ideologues.Was that addressed to me?

Was that addressed to me?

Looks like it.

Looks like it.

I just don't want to take undue offense.

agreed but the judge overruled the verdict of the jury.

Because she was ruled insane. Guilty and that brand of insane are incompatible, you can't be both.

Your quite right King Bodacious, this is clearly the entire fault of Liberal anti-family democrat socialists.

and where did I blame it on the "Liberal anti-family democrat socialists"?

Considering that she was admitted a half a dozen times from February to August the following year, is a pretty nice red flag of how stable or sane she may have been, and then the social worker on the case was told by her mother that her grandchildren were in danger the same day they were murdered by the mother. I suppose you don't think anything should be done not even the least of having an investigation which is your perogative. I say atleast, they ought to have an investigation to see where the ball was dropped. Yes, atleast the social services needs to be investigated.

and where did I blame it on the "Liberal anti-family democrat socialists"?

Considering that she was admitted a half a dozen times from February to August the following year, is a pretty nice red flag of how stable or sane she may have been, and then the social worker on the case was told by her mother that her grandchildren were in danger the same day they were murdered by the mother. I suppose you don't think anything should be done not even the least of having an investigation which is your perogative. I say atleast, they ought to have an investigation to see where the ball was dropped. Yes, atleast the social services needs to be investigated.

So I'll ask you again--are you willing to pay for higher taxes to fund a decent social worker and mental health care system?

I agree that their was a failure on the part of the state ... though I am not sure right now of their ability or knowledge of the situation.

Though I see nothing wrong with locking her in a mental institution ... if killing your 3 kids is not insane I don't know what is.

Seconded.

Relatives of a mentally troubled woman from Oakland who reported hearing voices before she allegedly threw her three young sons into the bay to die said Thursday they had tried unsuccessfully to persuade Alameda County social service workers to help them gain custody of the children.

They had given up trying by Wednesday, when Harris went to the home of a cousin and told her she was going to feed her children to the sharks.

The above is from: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/10/21/CHILDREN.TMP

I think it is very reasonable to have atleast an investigation to find out if Social Services could have saved the young children.

Am I an idiot for thinking an investigation is necessary? so to fix and maybe prevent future Harris' from murdering their kids. I don't think it's to much to ask for.

So I'll ask you again--are you willing to pay for higher taxes to fund a decent social worker and mental health care system?

You should know that throughout our entire Government (all 3 Branches) has a tremendous waste of funds. Both major parties are guilty of it. I for the total and complete reform of the policies, taxes, governmental agencies etc... I'm also against the lawmakers voting for their own raises each and every year. So the point is whether or not I'd be willing to pay for higher taxes which you are deliberately trying to get me to say out of spite. So, I'm sidelining the issue and bringing to you the real issue of Total Reform. I'm all for it because the fact is our government and lawmakers are throwing money everywheres and whatnot.

As for her sentence, she will serve atleast one year in a mental institution and then she'll have the "burden" of proving she is sane to be released. That doesn't sound like justice for the victims to me.

As for her sentence, she will serve atleast one year in a mental institution and then she'll have the "burden" of proving she is sane to be released. That doesn't sound like justice for the victims to me.

Considering she killed her three sons I don't see her being sane next year.

You should know that throughout our entire Government (all 3 Branches) has a tremendous waste of funds. Both major parties are guilty of it. I for the total and complete reform of the policies, taxes, governmental agencies etc... I'm also against the lawmakers voting for their own raises each and every year. So the point is whether or not I'd be willing to pay for higher taxes which you are deliberately trying to get me to say out of spite. So, I'm sidelining the issue and bringing to you the real issue of Total Reform. I'm all for it because the fact is our government and lawmakers are throwing money everywheres and whatnot.

You think you dodged the question with that piece-o-crap answer? It's TANSTAAFL, man. If you want a working mental health and social worker system, you've got to pay for it, and trust me, you don't want private industry handling this--it'd be a godawful clusterfuck, because they'd be trying to turn a profit and the taxpayers would be footing the bill either way. So if we want a working system--and it's obvious you think that the system isn't working, based on this thread--we have to pay for it.

So what's more important to you, King Bodacious? A working mental health care system or your tax bill?

Of course the mental Healthcare is more important than our tax bill. However, I'm not convinced that throwing more money at it will miracously fix it. It needs an overhaul and Total Reform. The complete US budget can also be adjusted to minimize the waste of tax payers money and so on.

Also note how the Judge on the case nullified the Guilty verdicts given by the jury.

JNOV. What about it?

I'm also against the lawmakers voting for their own raises each and every year.

It is unconstitutional for a session of the federal legislature to raise their own pay. 27th amendment.

As for her sentence, she will serve atleast one year in a mental institution and then she'll have the "burden" of proving she is sane to be released. That doesn't sound like justice for the victims to me.I think you're confusing justice and vengeance.

Also note how the Judge on the case nullified the Guilty verdicts given by the jury.

Do you think maybe its because the judge knew that Nancy Pelosi killed those kids because they wouldnt buy any drugs from Bill Clinton, and that its a conspiracy?

nothings wrong with locking her up in the nut house except for she can possibly be let out as long as a doctor finds her to be sane.
People who are remanded into psychiatric institutions due to being found not guilty for reasons of insanity are in fact incarcerated longer than people who are are sent to prison for similar crimes.
She was facing 15 to life. That mean she could well have been out in 10 years.

What would you prefer?
A crazy woman who spends 10 years in a maximum security prison getting no help for her mental problems and is then dumped back on the streets
or
A crazy woman spending a couple of decades in a psychiatric institution getting much-needed therapy and help for her mental problems before being certified (by a panel of doctors incidently, not just one) as sane and then released.

So, which one do you choose?

Kang Bo-dacious, you never answered my question regarding whether or not this is a conspiracy to cover up Nancy pelosi's involvement in the killing.

Maybe they need to do this so that Barack Obama can become president and be the antichrist?

As for her sentence, she will serve atleast one year in a mental institution and then she'll have the "burden" of proving she is sane to be released. That doesn't sound like justice for the victims to me.

What would sound like justice for the victims to you then?