NationStates Jolt Archive

Okay, three things you have to know about me:

1) I am a devout Christian.

2) I am not one of those people who ignores obvious scientific proof of things becase it contradicts what Moses said over brunch.

3) I am a homosexual.

The Bible is pretty clear that God hates homosexuality. But however much Pastor Phelps and Jack Chick whine, it is caued by a gene. So if it's part of my geneti design, God has condemned me to Hell for something that He made me.
Why?

He just wants your money.

He just wants your money.

What??

Well, in essence if your are a person who has pretences for men then it would be best to do a self-analysis and see if you are actually bi-sexual so as you can still do all the good stuff without thinking you are wronging yourself in some way. Yet, if you only ‘like’ men then it would be so as not to have conflicting views is to meditate upon this battle in your soul and come to the end result of your own making.

As for your open mind, remember that man wrote the bible, not God directly, so seven years might have been seven billion years. Also, it says he only created Earth directly in it and does not go into much detail as to how everything came to be and it goes into no detail about the rest of the universe really.

God has condemned me to Hell for something that He made me.
Why?

God is gayer than you are. He's perfectly gay.

Okay, three things you have to know about me:

1) I am a devout Christian.

2) I am not one of those people who ignores obvious scientific proof of things becase it contradicts what Moses said over brunch.

3) I am a homosexual.

The Bible is pretty clear that God hates homosexuality. But however much Pastor Phelps and Jack Chick whine, it is caued by a gene. So if it's part of my geneti design, God has condemned me to Hell for something that He made me.
Why?

Listen, I'm not particularly religious, but I've gathered the meaning of most of them, Christianity in particular, not to be that what you're doing wrong will condemn you to eternal suffering, but by doing the best you can to be a decent person, good to others and all that jazz, then you're ok in God's book.

So if you're gay, go ahead and be gay. Just as long as you're a decent gay person, not an asshole.

As for organized religion, they do just want your money.

I think that the two likely answers are either

(a) The Bible is not the absolute, literal word of God, but rather a work of fiction constructed by ordinary men.

or

(b) The Bible is not the absolute, literal word of God, but rather the word of God as interpreted by and filtered through ordinary men.

Either way, the general point that God doesn't actually care terribly much about your sexual orientation stands. :)

Okay, three things you have to know about me:

1) I am a devout Christian.

2) I am not one of those people who ignores obvious scientific proof of things becase it contradicts what Moses said over brunch.

3) I am a homosexual.

The Bible is pretty clear that God hates homosexuality. But however much Pastor Phelps and Jack Chick whine, it is caued by a gene. So if it's part of my geneti design, God has condemned me to Hell for something that He made me.
Why?God has self-loathing issues. You see, since you're made in His image and are homosexual, and He hates homosexuals, He must obviously hate Himself.

Either that or He doesn't hate you for being gay.

As for organized religion, they do just want your money.As I have a serious rp here is my joke one.

Not mine, all we want to do is feed your face to the Queen Spider.

*Cookie to the person who can find the show that is from*

Well, in essence if your are a person who has pretences for men then it would be best to do a self-analysis and see if you are actually bi-sexual so as you can still do all the good stuff without thinking you are wronging yourself in some way. Yet, if you only ‘like’ men then it would be so as not to have conflicting views is to meditate upon this battle in your soul and come to the end result of your own making.

As for your open mind, remember that man wrote the bible, not God directly, so seven years might have been seven billion years. Also, it says he only created Earth directly in it and does not go into much detail as to how everything came to be and it goes into no detail about the rest of the universe really.
Why do you assume I'm male? Yes, the Bible was written by man, but inspired by God. Some things are debateable, but it is pretty clear on this issue.

Listen, I'm not particularly religious, but I've gathered the meaning of most of them, Christianity in particular, not to be that what you're doing wrong will condemn you to eternal suffering, but by doing the best you can to be a decent person, good to others and all that jazz, then you're ok in God's book.

So if you're gay, go ahead and be gay. Just as long as you're a decent gay person, not an asshole.

As for organized religion, they <i>do</i> just want your money.
It's a good theory, but completely insupportable by the Bible.

God has self-loathing issues. You see, since you're made in His image and are homosexual, and He hates homosexuals, He must obviously hate Himself.

Either that or He doesn't hate you for being gay.

Of coarse he hates himself. God is always crying in the dark slashing his wrists and saying "why aren't you worshipping me?"

As I have a serious rp here is my joke one.

Not mine, all we want to do is feed your face to the Queen Spider.

*Cookie to the person who can find the show that is from*

South Park. Gimmie cookie.

Of coarse he hates himself. God is always crying in the dark slashing his wrists and saying "why aren't you worshipping me?"

Go away. Just go away. I'm talking about some serious self-htred issues I have here and all you can do is blaspheme? GET OUT!!!!

When you were in the womb, verily, did God know you.

Specifically, he knew that you'd be a dude into other dudes. EDIT: (Oops, sorry, you might be a girl into other girls)

I doubt he/she hates you, and if he/she's all-knowing, he/she already knew what was going to pitch your tent long before the day and night were separated.

Just be safe, be genuine in your love for the people in your life, and remember that the sea-food I had for dinner this evening is just as big a sin in the bible.

It's a good theory, but completely insupportable by the Bible.

Well, what if I were to suggest that you don't need a book to guide your beliefs?

As I have a serious rp here is my joke one.

Not mine, all we want to do is feed your face to the Queen Spider.

*Cookie to the person who can find the show that is from*
Southpark

Why do you assume I'm male? Yes, the Bible was written by man, but inspired by God. Some things are debateable, but it is pretty clear on this issue.Well because, my priest claimed the 'gay' gene was on the X chromsome, yet in reality I made a assumption that you were male becuase a super majority of NSers are male and also I used that post once before and I was to lazt to think up a new one.

South Park. Gimmie cookie.*Gives a bag of cookies made by the hands of little children in China.*

Well, what if I were to suggest that you don't need a book to guide your beliefs?I'd tell you that you're wrong. "Small Gods", "My Secret Garden", and the "Worst Case Scenario Survival Guidebooks" series are crucial to my survival.

So if it's part of my geneti design, God has condemned me to Hell for something that He made me.
Why?

The same reason he gives people cancer, destroys their homes with tsunamis or finds another way to make humans miserable.
What that reason is- I do not know. Many Christians seem to believe it is testing your faith, possibly resulting in greater rewards in the next life.

When you were in the womb, verily, did God know you.

Specifically, he knew that you'd be a dude into other dudes.

I doubt he/she hates you, and if he/she's all-knowing, he/she already knew what was going to pitch your tent long before the day and night were separated.

Just be safe, be genuine in your love for the people in your life, and remember that the sea-food I had for dinner this evening is just as big a sin in the bible.

No, that was one of the rules that was declared obsolete when Jesus showed up.
And again, the assumption that I'm male.

Okay, three things you have to know about me:

1) I am a devout Christian.

2) I am not one of those people who ignores obvious scientific proof of things becase it contradicts what Moses said over brunch.

3) I am a homosexual.

The Bible is pretty clear that God hates homosexuality. But however much Pastor Phelps and Jack Chick whine, it is caued by a gene. So if it's part of my geneti design, God has condemned me to Hell for something that He made me.
Why? thats plain silly...you answered your own question.

if god loves you as taught,and god created you...how could god hate you?

i was an alter boy for 12 years,so i know a thing or 2...god dont hate you..learn to love yourself and stop looking to be accepted by others or other wordly beings.

your probably a great guy/girl and your getting all cluttered up with bullshit.
if your religous..then god loves you...no matter what,if your not..who cares what god thinks.

i think god loves everyone...unless your a sociopath..and even then...my god would forgive them...i wont..but my god would.

Well, what if I were to suggest that you don't need a book to guide your beliefs?


Southpark

No, I checked, we're going totally by the textbook this semester.

Fortunately, the department stopped using the Holy Bible in Fall of '06, this year we're going to be using Partial Differential Equations for Engineering Applications, Thompson & Mitchel, 7th Ed.

Okay, seriously, even if he's going by the bible, the bible says we're all sinners in one way or another and all sinners get the pipe, yeah?

If he/she hates X, he's gotta hate all of us...

I'd tell you that you're wrong. "Small Gods", "My Secret Garden", and the "Worst Case Scenario Survival Guidebooks" series are crucial to my survival.

You've got me there.

I was speaking more in terms of spiritual beliefs, not survival guides etc.

Whatever works for you though.

No, that was one of the rules that was declared obsolete when Jesus showed up.
And again, the assumption that I'm male.

So, if a rule can be declared obsolete, what makes you think the butt-plumbing thing hasn't been similarly amended?

Show me the scripture where Christ says the shell-fish thing is out?

If what cometh out of a mans mouth defilith him, but not what goes in, doesn't that give wang-chugging the same green light as oysters?

Or rug-munching, whatever.

The same reason he gives people cancer, destroys their homes with tsunamis or finds another way to make humans miserable.
What that reason is- I do not know. Many Christians seem to believe it is testing your faith, possibly resulting in greater rewards in the next life.

That's a possibility. So a lifetime of celibacy i just my cross to bear. Makes sense. Thanks! Bye, guys!

You've got me there.

I was speaking more in terms of spiritual beliefs, not survival guides etc.

Whatever works for you though.Survival Guides oh yeah... :D
Let's just say that should aliens attempt to kidnap me, the WCSSHBs taught me what to do.

Survival Guides oh yeah... :D
Let's just say that should aliens attempt to kidnap me, the WCSSHBs taught me what to do.

What do you do if your car stalls on the railroad tracks with a train coming during a simultanious tornado/flash flood?

That's a possibility. So a lifetime of celibacy i just my cross to bear. Makes sense. Thanks! Bye, guys!

And before you go, let me ask you...would it be worth it?

And before you go, let me ask you...would it be worth it?

Worth heaven? Yes.

Worth heaven? Yes.

But how do you know that Heaven's actually there?

*To everyone else here, I'm sorry, I had to do it.*

What do you do if your car stalls on the railroad tracks with a train coming during a simultanious tornado/flash flood?Depends. If you're stuck in the trunk, there's this cable that usually controls opening it that you can dig for. As for the flood, if it sweeps you down a waterfall, there's ways of surviving that too, but I don't remember the details.

Worth heaven? Yes.

God will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.

His representatives will gladly milk your self-hatred and enjoy the control over your life, and after your life is over, God will surely settle the tab.

Why wouldn't he...

I have a question, if you do 'like' the opposite gender and you are worried about heaven why not commit yourself to achieving a goal that you are comfortable with.

To state though I do not like people of the same gender hitting on me, but overall I consider homosexuals good people that could teach 'normal' people a few things about commitment.

Depends. If you're stuck in the trunk, there's this cable that usually controls opening it that you can dig for. As for the flood, if it sweeps you down a waterfall, there's ways of surviving that too, but I don't remember the details.

You're dead :p

God will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.

His representatives will gladly milk your self-hatred and enjoy the control over your life, and after your life is over, God will surely settle the tab.

Why wouldn't he...

And I was gonna say that :mad:

I have a question, if you do 'like' the opposite gender and you are worried about heaven why not commit yourself to achieving a goal that you are comfortable with.

To state though I do not like people of the same gender hitting on me, but overall I consider homosexuals good people that could teach 'normal' people a few things about commitment.

If X goes for somebody of the opposite gender, I think X should let them know up front in the relationship that he/she is homosexual, just so the other person knows that there is some compromise there...

Okay, three things you have to know about me:

1) I am a devout Christian.

2) I am not one of those people who ignores obvious scientific proof of things becase it contradicts what Moses said over brunch.

3) I am a homosexual.

The Bible is pretty clear that God hates homosexuality. But however much Pastor Phelps and Jack Chick whine, it is caued by a gene. So if it's part of my geneti design, God has condemned me to Hell for something that He made me.
Why?

Its a test. Whether you are committed to him or not. Either you fight your homosexuality or you give in to sin. Only you can decide your path and your spirituality. I'm not going to sit here and judge you, its not my place.

You're dead :p



And I was gonna say that :mad:

I know, I live my online life by a policy of "What Would Dodudodu Do or Say?" or as my bracelet and bumper stickers say:

WWDDS?

If X goes for somebody of the opposite gender, I think X should let them know up front in the relationship that he/she is homosexual, just so the other person knows that there is some compromise there...

In all honesty, whats the point in trying to be something you're not?

X, if you are as hardcore Christian as you say you are, and truly believe that you're doomed to eternal suffering or what-have-you, have fun with that.

Or, just go with whatever life throws at you, try and be good to the best of your ability, know you're human, and work from there.

I know, I live my online life by a policy of "What Would Dodudodu Do or Say?" or as my bracelet and bumper stickers say:

WWDDS?
Might just sig that.

Its a test. Whether you are committed to him or not. Either you fight your homosexuality or you give in to sin. Only you can decide your path and your spirituality. I'm not going to sit here and judge you, its not my place.
I could say you're judging him right there.

Okay, three things you have to know about me:

1) I am a devout Christian.

2) I am not one of those people who ignores obvious scientific proof of things becase it contradicts what Moses said over brunch.

3) I am a homosexual.

The Bible is pretty clear that God hates homosexuality. But however much Pastor Phelps and Jack Chick whine, it is caued by a gene. So if it's part of my geneti design, God has condemned me to Hell for something that He made me.
Why?


From my expierience, biblical anti-homosexual stances are vague, and not definite at any point... And you have an open mind...Thats fine. As long as you accept Christ as your savior, and accept God the father as creator of all things, you're alright. As for your gene design, im more clung too the theroy that you've chosen too live as a homosexual. =/ This is of course if your catholic, in which case you must also worship the pope and be molested by your local preist.

To state though I do not like people of the same gender hitting on me...

To go off on a tangent for a minute - I've never understood why straight guys (it always seems to be straight guys, for some reason) have this particular issue. When people to whom I am not attracted hit on me, I do not recoil in horror, spontaneously change sexual orientation, or die. I simply feel appropriately flattered while politely turning them down. This would seem to be the only logical response. So why do I hear so many guys complain about the horrors of having someone tell them, "Hi there. I think you're rather handsome. Can I buy you a drink?"

The Bible is pretty clear that God hates homosexuality. But however much Pastor Phelps and Jack Chick whine, it is caued by a gene. So if it's part of my geneti design, God has condemned me to Hell for something that He made me.
Why?

If we are going to be all 'biblically' here, I want some scriptural support for that statement.

Let's be consistent before we throw the rest of science out of the window.

Otherwise, take the rest of it for what it is worth.

This is of course if your catholic, in which case you must also worship the pope and be molested by your local preist.Sends out a bunch of people in red robes to be burned for heresy.*

Okay, three things you have to know about me:

1) I am a devout Christian.

2) I am not one of those people who ignores obvious scientific proof of things becase it contradicts what Moses said over brunch.

3) I am a homosexual.

The Bible is pretty clear that God hates homosexuality. But however much Pastor Phelps and Jack Chick whine, it is caued by a gene. So if it's part of my geneti design, God has condemned me to Hell for something that He made me.
Why?


this mentality is idiocy. To be a Christian all that is required of you is that

a) you accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior
b) repent your sins
c) do your best not to repeat said sins


nowhere in there does it say that being gay will condemn you to hell. The asshats who say that are...asshats.


in fact, no where in the new testament does it say being gay is a sin. The new testament is the message of Jesus Christ, and as such his word is now law, to replace the old testament and its law. His death sealed a new covenant with his people (the jews and soon the christians) which x'ed ou tthe old covenant. Therefore being gay is no longer a sin. ONly people who claim it is are asshats who like being mean. I say fux em, and let them live their lives. You live your life and see who gets to heaven.


Mind, I am an atheist but I grew up in pretty serious christian schools and learnt too much. Enjoy you live dude. Even if I don't agree with you about women (I like them a LOT more than men) you have every right to love whoever you chose.

Sends out a bunch of people in red robes to be burned for heresy.*

H-hold on guys! I recant my beliefs!

*mutters under breath*

Douches...

To go off on a tangent for a minute - I've never understood why straight guys (it always seems to be straight guys, for some reason) have this particular issue. When people to whom I am not attracted hit on me, I do not recoil in horror, spontaneously change sexual orientation, or die. I simply feel appropriately flattered while politely turning them down. This would seem to be the only logical response. So why do I hear so many guys complain about the horrors of having someone tell them, "Hi there. I think you're rather handsome. Can I buy you a drink?"Not that kind of hitting on, I mean when they put your hand on your leg and/or stroke your arm, try to grab you hand, that kinda of crap.

H-hold on guys! I recant my beliefs!

*mutters under breath*

Douches...Liar! Release the Vikings and Giant Killer Chipmunk!

you know what? I hate that too. My answer to them when they do that is: I would not do that to a woman-it's rude. I would expect her to slap me. Shall I punch the fuck out of you or will you remove your hand?

Not that kind of hitting on, I mean when they put your hand on your leg and/or stroke your arm, try to grab you hand, that kinda of crap.

Would you honestly like it if a stranger of your preferred gender started fondling your leg? If not, why bother to make the distinction between "gay" and "straight" rather than between "capable of understanding the concept of 'personal space'" and "creepy"? :)

you know what? I hate that too. My answer to them when they do that is: I would not do that to a woman-it's rude. I would expect her to slap me. Shall I punch the fuck out of you or will you remove your hand?They expect equal treatment then I shall do unto them as I would have unto myself. If I grabbed someone's butt I damn well know I will be maced, with a mace.

Liar! Release the Vikings and Giant Killer Chipmunk!

Oh damn... *Calls Canadian Air Force*

Oh damn... *Calls Canadian Air Force*That is it time for Godzilla army.

The Bible is wrong. It was written by human beings, not God. Because it was written and translated by human beings, it is flawed. It is my gut feeling that, if God cares at all, it is about how we treat other people and the world around us. He doesn't give a damn about who we love or how.

I wouldn't punvh a woman who did this to me but you can bet I would make sure she knew not to. However men tend to be hard headed and a threatened punch in the nose usually gets their attention. A woman, unless drunk, usually responds better to a simple "get the fuck off me!"

The Bible is wrong. It was written by human beings, not God. Because it was written and translated by human beings, it is flawed. It is my gut feeling that, if God cares at all, it is about how we treat other people and the world around us. He doesn't give a damn about who we love or how.

No, I checked, God takes a firm stance against the Dirty Sanchez and going ATM before meals.

God Hates Me
Join the club. As far as I can make out from my experiences with born-agains and the such, God hates everyone.

God hates you, huh? That reminds me of something really funny I once heard. It went something like this: if a little kid ever asks you why it's raining just tell them that it's God crying. Then when they ask why God is crying tell them it's because of something they did. :D

I think X likes the hate. Hatred is, after all, a form of attention, and attention from big important ideas like God is great way to feel big and important.

After all, "Indifference is the hardest form of cruelty".

That's a gay proverb, but its true.

Okay, three things you have to know about me:

1) I am a devout Christian.

2) I am not one of those people who ignores obvious scientific proof of things becase it contradicts what Moses said over brunch.

3) I am a homosexual.

The Bible is pretty clear that God hates homosexuality. But however much Pastor Phelps and Jack Chick whine, it is caued by a gene. So if it's part of my geneti design, God has condemned me to Hell for something that He made me.
Why?

Well, as I always say : If he does exist, he must be quite a jerk.

Okay, three things you have to know about me:

1) I am a devout Christian.

2) I am not one of those people who ignores obvious scientific proof of things becase it contradicts what Moses said over brunch.

3) I am a homosexual.

The Bible is pretty clear that God hates homosexuality. But however much Pastor Phelps and Jack Chick whine, it is caued by a gene. So if it's part of my geneti design, God has condemned me to Hell for something that He made me.
Why?

Well, you COULD decide that you're condemned to Hell.

OR you could decide to keep in mind the Bible is millenia old, and has been translated who knows how many times.

I don't know how much experience you have with foreign languages, but sometimes words just don't translate. This happens with modern French, I'd hate to see someone translate a 2000 year old Hebrew concept with no real meaning in English, eh?

Remember things from the New Testament, too: God is love, yes? He died for your sins, yes? Then you're not going to Hell unless you do bad things. Live for love, love thyself, and your neighbors, and treat everyone and everything you can with the respect you can muster, and you will not go to Hell.

This is my personal belief.

My personal beliefs also exclude the existence of a Hell at all though, so...

I'd very much like to pitty you, but I just can't. You're beating yourself up with an extension of your own damn imagination. If you can, be a rational being for 1 fucking day of your pathetic life & haul yourself off to a mental institution. You need neither deceit nor decievers, you need a good psychiatrist - just like other schizophrenics, whose dillusions are harmful to themselves. Because that's what you are; a schizo.

Stop whining & do something about it. The only way you'll stop being miserable, is if you stop shitting yourself about your problems & try to do something about them. Have some self respect, damnit.

I'd very much like to pitty you, but I just can't. You're beating yourself up with an extension of your own damn imagination. If you can, be a rational being for 1 fucking day of your pathetic life & haul yourself off to a mental institution. You need neither deceit nor decievers, you need a good psychiatrist - just like other schizophrenics, whose dillusions are harmful to themselves. Because that's what you are; a schizo.

Stop whining & do something about it. The only way you'll stop being miserable, is if you stop shitting yourself about your problems & try to do something about them. Have some self respect, damnit.

Hmm, well, you COULD call him a schizophrenic, but you'd be wrong, so that wraps up like half of your post right there.

Having faith is not a mental disease. This person is struggling with what lots of people have trouble with, and it's not even close to your place to put him down for reaching out for help...albeit he did it on the forums for a political website with what must be a notoriously anti-Christian population.

Even a rational person can see that.

Okay, three things you have to know about me:

1) I am a devout Christian.

2) I am not one of those people who ignores obvious scientific proof of things becase it contradicts what Moses said over brunch.

3) I am a homosexual.

The Bible is pretty clear that God hates homosexuality. But however much Pastor Phelps and Jack Chick whine, it is caued by a gene. So if it's part of my geneti design, God has condemned me to Hell for something that He made me.
Why?
Stop being gay.

That's a possibility. So a lifetime of celibacy i just my cross to bear. Makes sense. Thanks! Bye, guys!

Yes, excellent. Nail on the head. That'll be just fine. Whatever you do in your life, don't procreate. It might not be a sin to your god, but procreating would be a great disrespect to the rest of us.

Okay, three things you have to know about me:

1) I am a devout Christian.

2) I am not one of those people who ignores obvious scientific proof of things becase it contradicts what Moses said over brunch.

3) I am a homosexual.

The Bible is pretty clear that God hates homosexuality. But however much Pastor Phelps and Jack Chick whine, it is caued by a gene. So if it's part of my geneti design, God has condemned me to Hell for something that He made me.
Why?

Why would you seriously care about what the Bible says? It is just a bunch of unreliable stories taken from older stories and rewritten numerous times. If you ignore the Bible's scientific inaccuracies, why not ignore all of the rest? Such as the contradiction your post is in relation to.

of course he does, he is a rotten bastard.

seriously, many people deal with self-loathing in one form or another, and it isn't connected to religion, maybe if you search yourself and find your religion conflicts who you are, this is not the religion for you?
easy for me who think all religion is mass hypnosis and hysteria to say, but maybe you should think about it. it could make your life easier.
on the other hand, if you find your self loathing has little to do with your religion maybe you should look for what exactly has caused or is causing it.

Hmm, well, you COULD call him a schizophrenic, but you'd be wrongSemantics. Empirical data shows people with his type of beliefs, exhibit schizophrenic behaviour. You can dismiss that, of course, but it'll make it no less true.Having faith is not a mental disease.Nor did say claim anything of the sort.

Having faith take over your life, however, just might be. Religion's just fine for most people. For some people though, it becomes a sort of schizophrenia. It shouldn't surprise anyone. A personal, extremely angry & judgemental deity, lends itself very well to that sort of thing.

That it offends your sensibilities that what's a boon for you, might be the malady of others, is not my problem & it has fuck-all to do with this thread. Still, if you actually had the OPs best interest at heart, as opposed to your own, you'd set aside your personal shit & look at what he's actually saying - and what might help him. In other words; though I admittedly have a very hard time indeed, feeling even the slightest bit of sympathy for the OP, I still gave the only kind of sound advice there is to give. And you have a problem with it, because it's taboo to say religion can drive people a little mad...

It's prolly too much to hope you're ashamed of yourself, but I do anyway. Whatever.. Just be glad it's not driven to the point of terrorism or suicide. I know I am.

Okay, three things you have to know about me:

1) I am a devout Christian.

2) I am not one of those people who ignores obvious scientific proof of things becase it contradicts what Moses said over brunch.

3) I am a homosexual.

The Bible is pretty clear that God hates homosexuality. But however much Pastor Phelps and Jack Chick whine, it is caued by a gene. So if it's part of my geneti design, God has condemned me to Hell for something that He made me.
Why?

God don't hate you. Do you belive in a loving God? That part of the Bible is man's word not God.

God doesn't hate me, he just doesn't believe in me. So I return the favor.

Semantics. Empirical data shows people with his type of beliefs, exhibit schizophrenic behaviour. You can dismiss that, of course, but it'll make it no less true.Nor did say claim anything of the sort.

Having faith take over your life, however, just might be. Religion's just fine for most people. For some people though, it becomes a sort of schizophrenia. It shouldn't surprise anyone. A personal, extremely angry & judgemental deity, lends itself very well to that sort of thing.

That it offends your sensibilities that what's a boon for you, might be the malady of others, is not my problem & it has fuck-all to do with this thread. Still, if you actually had the OPs best interest at heart, as opposed to your own, you'd set aside your personal shit & look at what he's actually saying - and what might help him. In other words; though I admittedly have a very hard time indeed, feeling even the slightest bit of sympathy for the OP, I still gave the only kind of sound advice there is to give. And you have a problem with it, because it's taboo to say religion can drive people a little mad...

It's prolly too much to hope you're ashamed of yourself, but I do anyway. Whatever.. Just be glad it's not driven to the point of terrorism or suicide. I know I am.

Yeah, except he's not schizophrenic.

I find it in no way taboo to call some religious people insane, that's the way it is. He, however, does not appear to be. Admittedly, perhaps I did not read the entire thread to get a better gauge of his mental state. Commitment, however, I don't think is entirely necessary.

This could entirely be because you've read the thread and he's been saying he can hear God and wants to kill himself. In which case, I would be wrong.

I do have his best interests at heart, but again, I could be speaking from ignorance. I doubt it, though, as most of the posts I've seen in response are "GTFO HAHAHA".

I'm not in the least bit ashamed of anything I said. Why should I be?

EDIT: Read the thread. Nothing important, I was wrong to try to apply sense to this person (op). Nevermind, disregard my posts. Except the first one.

Okay, three things you have to know about me:

1) I am a devout Christian.

2) I am not one of those people who ignores obvious scientific proof of things becase it contradicts what Moses said over brunch.

3) I am a homosexual.

The Bible is pretty clear that God hates homosexuality. But however much Pastor Phelps and Jack Chick whine, it is caued by a gene. So if it's part of my geneti design, God has condemned me to Hell for something that He made me.
Why?

Maybe Christianity is not for you. As for your "fact" that homosexuality is in your genetic design...well I won't go there...

But no one's stopping you from worshipping on your own. This is why I am generally agnostic. I am not entirely against the idea of a god, but as someone raised Roman Catholic, I'm quite against the ideas and hypocricy of organized religion.

Besides, as someone said, people wrote the Bible. People are quite influenced by the culture of the time. If the bible was an example of how society should be today, we'd still have slaves, women wouldn't have rights, and there would be a whole lot of other sordid things to deal with. Perhaps your homosexuality is simply another sign of the times. Hell, most people (myself included to a point) aren't ready to deal with it today...imagine 2000 years ago!

There has yet to be a study that proves a gay gene and has been replicated in any continued testing.

So, at the moment, there is no significant reason for you to believe any of the things you hear about new scientific advancements that "explain" homosexuality.

As a Christian myself, my advice is to focus not on the nature of your sin, but on the perfection of Christ. It isn't about how you've messed up; it's about how Christ didn't.

God bless

Perhaps you should do some test to see if you really are.
And if you are, it can't be your fault! You don't WANT to be gay, so you havn't comitted any sin. Perhaps you should talk to a priest/pastor about it.

Perhaps you should do some test to see if you really are.
And if you are, it can't be your fault! You don't WANT to be gay, so you havn't comitted any sin. Perhaps you should talk to a priest/pastor about it.

Fuck it man, you have the God given free will to do what you choose, why should you not be gay if that is what and who you are?

Fuck it man, you have the God given free will to do what you choose, why should you not be gay if that is what and who you are?

What you said, except with more oomph! :D

Okay, three things you have to know about me:

1) I am a devout Christian.

2) I am not one of those people who ignores obvious scientific proof of things becase it contradicts what Moses said over brunch.

3) I am a homosexual.

The Bible is pretty clear that God hates homosexuality. But however much Pastor Phelps and Jack Chick whine, it is caued by a gene. So if it's part of my geneti design, God has condemned me to Hell for something that He made me.
Why?
Because you've chosen to worship a God who punishes humans for being human.

Because you've chosen to worship a God who punishes humans for being human.

Or he has choosen to belive in a perception of God that does that.

Or he has choosen to belive in a perception of God that does that.
Each individual God-worshiper is bowing to their personal image of God. Each personal image of God will likely be inspired by what they've read, heard, and been taught about God, but it's still individual.

It's kind of like how if you ask people to picture an apple in their minds, everybody pictures something slightly different. All are inspired by their experiences of apples, but nobody pictures precisely the same "Form Of Apple."

Each individual God-worshiper is bowing to their personal image of God. Each personal image of God will likely be inspired by what they've read, heard, and been taught about God, but it's still individual.

It's kind of like how if you ask people to picture an apple in their minds, everybody pictures something slightly different. All are inspired by their experiences of apples, but nobody pictures precisely the same "Form Of Apple."


Yes agreed.

Each individual God-worshiper is bowing to their personal image of God. Each personal image of God will likely be inspired by what they've read, heard, and been taught about God, but it's still individual.

It's kind of like how if you ask people to picture an apple in their minds, everybody pictures something slightly different. All are inspired by their experiences of apples, but nobody pictures precisely the same "Form Of Apple."

Oh shit, we just got into this in philosophy. DAMN YOU PLATO!

but yeah, you're right. :D

Okay, three things you have to know about me:

1) I am a devout Christian.

2) I am not one of those people who ignores obvious scientific proof of things becase it contradicts what Moses said over brunch.

3) I am a homosexual.

The Bible is pretty clear that God hates homosexuality. But however much Pastor Phelps and Jack Chick whine, it is caued by a gene. So if it's part of my geneti design, God has condemned me to Hell for something that He made me.
Why?

I'm inclined to think this is a troll, just to bring out the atheists. But anyway.

Do you kill people who work on Sunday? On the assumption the answer is no, then you are not a devout Christian, as the bible demands that of you. The great thing about the bible is that you can choose what you want, and throw out what you don't want. Be gay, be happy.

If any religious person hassles you, asks them if they have any family members who work on Sunday. If they answer yes, demand they kill them. If they don't, they can't criticise your homosexuality, without being a hypocrite.

If by some bizarre accident, none of their family works on Sundays, ask them if they eat crustaceans. If they say yes, once again Demand biblical punishment. Keep going.

Ask how much they'll sell there daughters for? If one of them had a brother who died without making children, demand that he has sex with his dead brothers wife. It's call a Leverite (sp?)marriage and it's in the Bible.

The atheist has spoken. Read Dawkins The God Delusion. If you are a devout Christian, it shouldn't bother you as you could show it is all crap.

That's a possibility. So a lifetime of celibacy i just my cross to bear. Makes sense. Thanks! Bye, guys!

Erm..

Two questions-

One: Would your God want you to be miserable or happy?

Two: If it's the former(Miserable)...why does he want that?

Why does he need to "Test" you? That's not fair at all. That's actually rather cruel. What did you do to deserve it? All of this, if you've failed to notice, is his fault. Just sayin'...

Each individual God-worshiper is bowing to their personal image of God. Each personal image of God will likely be inspired by what they've read, heard, and been taught about God, but it's still individual.

It's kind of like how if you ask people to picture an apple in their minds, everybody pictures something slightly different. All are inspired by their experiences of apples, but nobody pictures precisely the same "Form Of Apple."

Just as each Christian follows their own personal brand of Christianity. Even within the certain subsections, asking one person a question and then asking another will grant you far different results on occasion.

Too many times people are a certain denomination by default. I was born a Roman Catholic and raised by two Roman Catholics. It took me what...15 years before I fully had broken away from it...and even now I still go to church once a year on Christmas, if only for my grandma and the fact that it's somewhat woven into my family's Christmas tradition.

Now that I think about it, how about a agnostic who regularly celebrates Christmas? Haha, to me at least, its more of a tradition and family gathering than a religious holiday however.

I'm inclined to think this is a troll, just to bring out the atheists. But anyway.

Do you kill people who work on Sunday? On the assumption the answer is no, then you are not a devout Christian, as the bible demands that of you. The great thing about the bible is that you can choose what you want, and throw out what you don't want. Be gay, be happy.

If any religious person hassles you, asks them if they have any family members who work on Sunday. If they answer yes, demand they kill them. If they don't, they can't criticise your homosexuality, without being a hypocrite.

If by some bizarre accident, none of their family works on Sundays, ask them if they eat crustaceans. If they say yes, once again Demand biblical punishment. Keep going.

Ask how much they'll sell there daughters for? If one of them had a brother who died without making children, demand that he has sex with his dead brothers wife. It's call a Leverite (sp?)marriage and it's in the Bible.

The atheist has spoken. Read Dawkins The God Delusion. If you are a devout Christian, it shouldn't bother you as you could show it is all crap.


Heheh welcome to the club. You are funny you know that?

You made me laugh, so here comes some chap worried about issues of faith, and in leaps some random Atheist with the proclomation, 'it's probably a troll to bring out the Atheists'

Whats funny about that is what does an Atheiost find interseting in contributing to a thread about religoin?

Each individual God-worshiper is bowing to their personal image of God. Each personal image of God will likely be inspired by what they've read, heard, and been taught about God, but it's still individual.

It's kind of like how if you ask people to picture an apple in their minds, everybody pictures something slightly different. All are inspired by their experiences of apples, but nobody pictures precisely the same "Form Of Apple."

Exactly. I'm a fairly religious person, but I don't see a God who is going to throw someone into Hell for being gay, no matter what may have been written in the Bible.

Your line of thought resembles early Chomsky, where the idea of "yellow" as a color has no real meaning, other than we all decide that certain things look "yellow". But if you were to see the color that I see, you might not see "yellow" through my eyes.

Heheh welcome to the club. You are funny you know that?

You made me laugh, so here comes some chap worried about issues of faith, and in leaps some random Atheist with the proclomation, 'it's probably a troll to bring out the Atheists'

Whats funny about that is what does an Atheiost find interseting in contributing to a thread about religoin?

To be serious. Unlike religious people who need the threat of eternal torment to be good, I have a personal morality. That morality involves trying to help people. I don't belive in Karma, sprituality, or anything. I will get no pay off for being nice.

My morality is just based on how I see the world, how I think about other people and my place in the world. It is just that if the world was based on the premise "treat people how you would like to be treated",the world would be a better place.

This guy will not be able to reconcile his faith and his sexual orientation. It just wont work. He thus has 2 options. Option 1 - become straight. Option 2 - Become at the minimum, agnostic.

Let's look at these two options. Becoming straight is going to be difficult. Even with all the other baggage saying gay is bad, he still is gay. If the threat of eternal damnation in hell, can't get him to keep it zipped for the wrong gender, than nothing else will.

Let's look at becoming Agnostic. He is already seeing some problems with his faith. "How can a loving god create me with the urge to be bisexual, but still love me, when his holy book condemns gays." I think the option of becoming an Atheist or Agnostic is the better choice of 2 bad choices for him, as he is already questioning his faith.

Exactly. I'm a fairly religious person, but I don't see a God who is going to throw someone into Hell for being gay, no matter what may have been written in the Bible.

Your line of thought resembles early Chomsky, where the idea of "yellow" as a color has no real meaning, other than we all decide that certain things look "yellow". But if you were to see the color that I see, you might not see "yellow" through my eyes.

It applies to emotions as well. Define anger. Define love. You cannot do so with any certainty that the feeling you assume is love is the same feeling that I am experiencing. And even if you could...it's such a fluid concept as well. Define love at age 10...then age 13...then age 17...then age 21...then age 41, etc. It will, almost guarenteed, be different every time. I told a girl I loved her when I was 15. Did I mean it then? Most definately. Looking back now, I've had one-night stands with more emotional connection than that "deep" relationship.

I am a christin but not one that is hardminded and ignores scince. Also i dont read the bible however god does not hate. he just pitys and thats an easy way to heaven

Go doesn't hate you for being gay...He may not like it that ur gay but he doesn't hate you. Think of Paul he killed many Christians,put them to death, but in the end Paul ended up one of the closest men to God ever. I don't believe God made you gay...I think u convinced urself ur gay.....I thought I was gay at one time...God explained 2 me...some people are born set apart (a big part in His special plan) God sets them apart not to like the opposite sex because He wants them to devout ALL their heart and time...But todays world screams..."If you don't like the opposite sex, you must be a gay" and there are charities who support it so people think
I also believe some pple use the word gay for pple who have given up on love...no one loved them of the opposite sex...it must b their own sex...They haven't found love yet and some pple never do because some would have to wait a long time so after while they assume "No one has come yet I must be a gay" I do like my own sex they are fun to b around
Duh..they are like u...God created that difference...they are ment to think like u in a way... but he created the other different so u could figure them out as u go so u don't get bored...

Haha. Funny reading. My two cents :

There is no "God". Not the way people think of it (the way the bible, or any other religious book preaches). If you want to talk to me about an higher being, intelligence or whatever (even aliens) though Im willing to consider it. I wont call any of them God though, no matter how better/stronger/smarter than me they are.

Second... homosexuality is decided by genes? Thats a tough one to swallow, why would our genetic code contain something that would prevent us from having children, leading to our extinction? Especially if you consider that everything else in it leads us to breed? Why do you think sex 'feels good'? I think if that is true (that genes decide sexual orientation) then homosexuality must indeed be an illness.

Nevertheless, if what you feel is physical atraction to people of the same gender then your solution is simple... have sex with your eyes closed while thinking on someone you consider atractive. Problem solved. :cool:

Okay, three things you have to know about me:

1) I am a devout Christian.

2) I am not one of those people who ignores obvious scientific proof of things becase it contradicts what Moses said over brunch.

3) I am a homosexual.

The Bible is pretty clear that God hates homosexuality. But however much Pastor Phelps and Jack Chick whine, it is caued by a gene. So if it's part of my geneti design, God has condemned me to Hell for something that He made me.
Why?

From what I could tell, it was only homosexual sex that is condemned. Your preference doesn't really matter. And also there is the matter of Christ dying so you wouldn't be condemned for you sin, so I don't really see a problem.

Okay, three things you have to know about me:

1) I am a devout Christian.

2) I am not one of those people who ignores obvious scientific proof of things becase it contradicts what Moses said over brunch.

3) I am a homosexual.

The Bible is pretty clear that God hates homosexuality. But however much Pastor Phelps and Jack Chick whine, it is caued by a gene. So if it's part of my geneti design, God has condemned me to Hell for something that He made me.
Why?

For a man to lie with a man as with a woman, that is an abomination, and he shall be put to death. (or something similar)

Um... all God appears to hate is homosexual sex... between men... in missionary position. Everything else He's apparently fine with. Maybe lesbians and gay men doing it standing up turn Him on. <.<

In the end, if you are a gay male who favours missionary, you can still be that way as long as you don't do it. God doesn't punish thoughts or fantasies, just immoral acts.

You filthy hippie god-hating fag!

:D

Seriously, join the Unitarians. They don't really give a damn.

To be serious. Unlike religious people who need the threat of eternal torment to be good, I have a personal morality. That morality involves trying to help people. I don't belive in Karma, sprituality, or anything. I will get no pay off for being nice.

My morality is just based on how I see the world, how I think about other people and my place in the world. It is just that if the world was based on the premise "treat people how you would like to be treated",the world would be a better place.

This guy will not be able to reconcile his faith and his sexual orientation. It just wont work. He thus has 2 options. Option 1 - become straight. Option 2 - Become at the minimum, agnostic.

Let's look at these two options. Becoming straight is going to be difficult. Even with all the other baggage saying gay is bad, he still is gay. If the threat of eternal damnation in hell, can't get him to keep it zipped for the wrong gender, than nothing else will.

Let's look at becoming Agnostic. He is already seeing some problems with his faith. "How can a loving god create me with the urge to be bisexual, but still love me, when his holy book condemns gays." I think the option of becoming an Atheist or Agnostic is the better choice of 2 bad choices for him, as he is already questioning his faith.

Wow what a lot of assumptions you have made there.

Actualy if asked you will find that an awful lot of already try to live under the moral rule 'treat people how you would like to be treated' yet the world is not a better place. Not all reliogilus people find their morality from their faith, i certianly don't.

You forgot option three, switch to a religoin where the belife is not the same as it is in Christianity, or option 4, realise that, that particular par of the Bible is hogwash.

Wow what a lot of assumptions you have made there.
Of course. It's a web forum. I'm not being his psychologist.

Actualy if asked you will find that an awful lot of already try to live under the moral rule 'treat people how you would like to be treated' yet the world is not a better place.
You just need a small amount of charismatic, selfish bastards to stuff up the world.
Not all reliogilus people find their morality from their faith, i certianly don't.
But a number of people claim to get their morality from faith. A lot of those people will claim that I can't have morality due to my Atheism.

You forgot option three, switch to a religoin where the belife is not the same as it is in Christianity,
I would think switching religion wasn't that simple. Suddenly realising the revealed word of god is wrong, but Vishnu the creator was right, seems tricky to me, and intellectually disingenous.

option 4, realise that, that particular par of the Bible is hogwash.
I sarcastically mentioned how you can pick and choose the bible parts that work for you. O.K. I'll be a christian, who chooses to ignore all the new testament. Wait, that makes me a Jew. My dead brother's wife is hot, sign me up for a Levirate marriage. I'm short of cash, I'll sell my wife (sh'e bugging me anyway). I'll ignore the bit where Jesus was the son of God.

Tell me how you can choose which bits of the bible to throw out, and still be a Devout Christian.

I sarcastically mentioned how you can pick and choose the bible parts that work for you. O.K. I'll be a christian, who chooses to ignore all the new testament. Wait, that makes me a Jew. My dead brother's wife is hot, sign me up for a Levirate marriage. I'm short of cash, I'll sell my wife (sh'e bugging me anyway). I'll ignore the bit where Jesus was the son of God.

Tell me how you can choose which bits of the bible to throw out, and still be a Devout Christian.

Oh, awesome! And I can stone my neighbours for working on Sundays and sell my hypothetical children into slavery! And I'm going to start sacrificing oxen and sheep and goats to YHVH, and killing people for eating shellfish or touching a menstruating woman... wait a minute. People don't do any of that stuff anymore. Yet they still claim to be Christians and Jews! Heretics! I must collect all such people and stone them to death for ignoring the rightful word of God!

Oh shit, we just got into this in philosophy. DAMN YOU PLATO!

but yeah, you're right. :D
Heh, believe me, I actually cringed while writing that. But I just couldn't think of any other clear way to express what I was getting at.

1) I am a devout Christian.

Good.

2) I am not one of those people who ignores obvious scientific proof of things becase it contradicts what Moses said over brunch.

I've never seen anything that science has proven to contradict anything Moses wrote in the Bible. I find some persons' miunderstandings of what Moses wrote to contradict science and I find some of what science says (but has not proven) to contradict science.

3) I am a homosexual.

Okay.

The Bible is pretty clear that God hates homosexuality.

Yes, He does, just like He hates all sin.

But however much Pastor Phelps and Jack Chick whine, it is caued by a gene.

First, that has not been proven. Second, why would it matter. There is evidence (not proof) that certain gene combinations (like XXY maybe?) increase the chance of the person being a murderer. Does that make the murder acceptable?

So if it's part of my geneti design, God has condemned me to Hell for something that He made me.

Umm, where does it say that homosexuals will go to hell? Answer - it doesn't. What it says is that all sinners will go to hell. The only other alternative is to repent and make Christ your personal Lord and Savior. A homosexual can do that. There should be changes of behavior when you do that, but the desires will not change, at least not by your own power. If you repent (which you say you have) then God will heal you. It may be five minutes from now. It may be at death. But God will heal you and until that time He will prompt you to obey His Word.

I'm in the same boat as you: I'm a Christian (a Calvinist, no less) and a homosexual. I have desires that I cannot control. But I can control my actions. I have acted to repent (both generally and specifically) and to make Christ my Lord and Savior. And I am not to live by the Law, but by Grace (which does not mean that I ignore the Law or do not try to obey it). God is merciful and if you come to Him, He will not turn you away: He'll just turn you into the person He made you to be.

I'll be praying for you.

Okay, three things you have to know about me:

1) I am a devout Christian.

2) I am not one of those people who ignores obvious scientific proof of things becase it contradicts what Moses said over brunch.

3) I am a homosexual.

The Bible is pretty clear that God hates homosexuality. But however much Pastor Phelps and Jack Chick whine, it is caued by a gene. So if it's part of my geneti design, God has condemned me to Hell for something that He made me.
Why?

If homosexuality is a gene, then it is a result of a genetic mutation. In this case, it is then the same reasoning as why God created cancer. He didn't; it's a result of, after the Fall of Man, God letting the world take its course. He created You, yes, but genetics had their free run and altered His creation.

However, He does not hate, you, or shouldn't, and if you can't decide to not be homosexual, then I disagree that it is caused by a gene.

If homosexuality is a choice, then it would be reasonable to assume that one would incur God's wrath.

Everything can be explained; this does not constitute truth. The ancients had their gods. Lightning, famine, flood--all were considered evidence of the respective deities. And the deities provided an explanation for the evidence. It is really quite circular. Now we have science, and it is no different than the ancient gods. We explain things, and then events and observations become evidence of the explanation. Another circle. We seek to explain what we observe, and use our explanation as the basis upon which our observations become evidence for.

Thus, we observe homosexuality, and seek to reconcile and hide behind some tangible explanation that will leave the observer free of responsibility. It's not your fault, it's the genes. Then we seek to reconcile this with our beliefs, as you mentioned above. It doesn't seem to mesh--and it shouldn't. We have let our evidence become our explanation.

However, one can't just "quit being homosexual." I believe that. There is no reason to believe that a choice cannot be influenced by a gene, a genetic mutation away from the norm. We are creations of God, altered by Nature.

Ultimately, genetics are Nature's method of influencing God's creation. You assert your homosexuality; you are not without recourse. Find your own reconciliation. Sometimes it's better not to ask why is it thus, but what can I do.

Okay, three things you have to know about me:

1) I am a devout Christian.

2) I am not one of those people who ignores obvious scientific proof of things becase it contradicts what Moses said over brunch.

3) I am a homosexual.

The Bible is pretty clear that God hates homosexuality. But however much Pastor Phelps and Jack Chick whine, it is caued by a gene. So if it's part of my geneti design, God has condemned me to Hell for something that He made me.
Why?

God's a bastard.

Okay, three things you have to know about me:

1) I am a devout Christian.

2) I am not one of those people who ignores obvious scientific proof of things becase it contradicts what Moses said over brunch.

3) I am a homosexual.

The Bible is pretty clear that God hates homosexuality. But however much Pastor Phelps and Jack Chick whine, it is caued by a gene. So if it's part of my geneti design, God has condemned me to Hell for something that He made me.
Why?

1) Ok

2) Yup

3) What gave you that idea? God is allegedly suppost to hold you all equal and cannot hate. Everybody is imperfect in the eyes of God? Have you ever lied or hated someone etc..., if so then you are already condemned to hell without forgiveness if you go by what the bible says. If being gay really is a sin according to the Bible (which is very debatable) then it's only one of thousands of sins that you have probably already comitted to make your heart imperfect.

1) I am a devout Christian.
How possible to be a devote Christian if you are in direct disobedience to God, then, with no repentance in sight?

But however much Pastor Phelps and Jack Chick whine, it is caused by a gene. So if it's part of my genetic design, God has condemned me to Hell for something that He made me.
Why?
Well... Obviously, you're going on this to support your whole argument. You have to be absolutely sure of these statements. In fact, more than that, the statement has to be true. If something seems to be supported by various experiments, chances are it's not going to be true... Depending even on the motivation of those working on them. This is seen so often, on both sides of the conservative/liberal scales.

In other words, I wouldn't bank of of results like that for another few... years. Until there's more proof. Scientific method.

Mattorn;12221299']How possible to be a devote Christian if you are in direct disobedience to God, then, with no repentance in sight?

Read. For this person being gay is obviously not a choice, but a fact of life. God made it so.
Acting on these feelings is of course still a choice. But the question now is why God would be so immensely cruel.

Read. For this person being gay is obviously not a choice, but a fact of life. God made it so.
Acting on these feelings is of course still a choice. But the question now is why God would be so immensely cruel.
That's baloney and we both know it. People aren't forced to kill their neighbors, people aren't forced to rob a store, etc, because everyone has something we call self-control. Now, for this person to try to get her reasoning from the Bible and then blame it on God, that's called "not taking responsibility". Since the Bible teaches taking responsibility, I suggest the author of this thread try another source that's more lenient. If you want to be judged a certain way, choose the standard. Unfortunately, the Bible isn't the best standard to judge homosexuality and come up with encouragement.

Mattorn;12221329']That's baloney and we both know it. People aren't forced to kill their neighbors, people aren't forced to rob a store, etc, because everyone has something we call self-control.

Again: READ. Those people can have those feelings without wishing to act on them. Having those feelings is not their choice. Acting on them is.

The topicstarter believes, like you I assume, that acting on them is bad.
The question asked in this topic is however why God would give someone such feelings in the first place.

I never got why exactly people have to take responsibility for being gay.

I never had to take responsibility for being .... asexual. Ok, not a very good argument. But still. I don't see the vast majority of people taking responsibility for being straight.

I never got why exactly people have to take responsibility for being gay.

I never had to take responsibility for being .... asexual. Ok, not a very good argument. But still. I don't see the vast majority of people taking responsibility for being straight.
Some people cannot grasp the difference between having a feeling and acting upon that feeling. They believe that BEING a homosexual means that an individual MUST engage in homosexual sexual activities. Of course this is not true, any more than being heterosexual requires that an individual engage in heterosexual sexual activities. Gay people can choose to have straight sex, or no sex at all, just as straight people can choose to have gay sex or no sex at all.

Growing up, I was taught that there is no such thing as a bad feeling. Feelings are normal and natural, even the feelings that people don't think are "positive." What defines a person is how they choose to act upon their feelings.

It's perfectly okay to feel angry, in other words, but there are many different ways that one could act upon that anger. Some are good choices, others are not.

Some people get hung up on whether or not it is "natural" to have gay feelings. This is stupid. (Sorry, but I don't feel like mincing words here.) It is as natural to feel homosexual attractions and impulses as it is to feel heterosexual ones.

The real question for every person to ask themselves is, "What are appropriate ways for me to act on my sexual feelings, whatever they may be, and what are inappropriate ways for me to act on them?"

Some Christians believe it is always inappropriate to act on gay feelings. If you choose to belong to their system of belief, and if you happen to have gay feelings, then you must accept that you will never be "allowed" to act on those feelings.

Again: READ. Those people can have those feelings without wishing to act on them. Having those feelings is not their choice. Acting on them is.

The topicstarter believes, like you I assume, that acting on them is bad.
The question asked in this topic is however why God would give someone such feelings in the first place.
Mmmm. The feelings are already indulged in to become such a big issue. We don't have to act coy about this--if you're going to indulge in things like, say, drugs, you're going to get an addiction. Simple fact of life.

Some people cannot grasp the difference between having a feeling and acting upon that feeling. They believe that BEING a homosexual means that an individual MUST engage in homosexual sexual activities. Of course this is not true, any more than being heterosexual requires that an individual engage in heterosexual sexual activities. Gay people can choose to have straight sex, or no sex at all, just as straight people can choose to have gay sex or no sex at all.

Growing up, I was taught that there is no such thing as a bad feeling. Feelings are normal and natural, even the feelings that people don't think are "positive." What defines a person is how they choose to act upon their feelings.

It's perfectly okay to feel angry, in other words, but there are many different ways that one could act upon that anger. Some are good choices, others are not.

Some people get hung up on whether or not it is "natural" to have gay feelings. This is stupid. (Sorry, but I don't feel like mincing words here.) It is as natural to feel homosexual attractions and impulses as it is to feel heterosexual ones.

The real question for every person to ask themselves is, "What are appropriate ways for me to act on my sexual feelings, whatever they may be, and what are inappropriate ways for me to act on them?"

Some Christians believe it is always inappropriate to act on gay feelings. If you choose to belong to their system of belief, and if you happen to have gay feelings, then you must accept that you will never be "allowed" to act on those feelings.

:eek:

With a little tweaking, I could agree with this!

I would say that something can be sinful and not be a sin itself, but other than that point, wow, you hit it right on.

God doesn't hate you, Xaluxax. He doesn't hate *anyone*, because it would be nonsensical for an omniscient being to hate that which it creates- why would it make something to hate it?

it is caued by a gene.

can you prove this?

God doesn't hate you, Xaluxax. He doesn't hate *anyone*, because it would be nonsensical for an omniscient being to hate that which it creates- why would it make something to hate it?
Stress relief.

It has been pretty well confirmed that there is not a "gay gene" but that homosexuality is not a "choice", either. The latest research being done seems to suggest that one's sexual identity (in a great many of its aspects, not just preference for the same or different genders) is shaped by the hormone balance in the womb. For example, younger male siblings have a higher incidence of homosexuality than their older brothers, particularly if they are the third or fourth son, although having sisters in between seems to make things less predictable. Just as our fingerprints are a unique signature of the time we spent in prenatal development, so may our sexuality.

Personally, I have absolutely no problem with homosexuality on principle. Some people use it as an excuse for self-destructive behavior, but just as many heterosexuals do likewise and most homosexuals don't. I know a gay couple who have been together for as long as my own parents and I respect that. I can't say I can share that experience (being straight, single, and far to young for a twenty-fifth anniversary), but I must say that it seems admirable, whatever the details may be.

If the bible was an example of how society should be today, we'd still have slaves, women wouldn't have rights, and there would be a whole lot of other sordid things to deal with.

Who's to say society shouldn't be that way?

Who's to say society shouldn't be that way?

:) I knew I liked you.

:) I knew I liked you.

We do seem to agree on many things...;)

God doesn't hate you, Xaluxax. He doesn't hate *anyone*, because it would be nonsensical for an omniscient being to hate that which it creates- why would it make something to hate it?

Ah yes...why would it drown each one of its creation, humanity, outside of a single family and two of each animal? Why would it want to smite all of humanity on another occasion and be talked down by one a member of humanity itself? Why would it chose a certain sect of its creation over all the others? Why, originally, would it abandon its creation and all of its creation's offspring because its creation's significant other ate an apple?

God's wrath is otherwise unheard of...and if taken literally...far worse than even that of Hitler.

Who's to say society shouldn't be that way?

Heh...most certainly the slaves, the women, and everyone who supports them

God's wrath is otherwise unheard of...and if taken literally...far worse than even that of Hitler.

Interestingly, the ancient Gnostics believed that the God of the Old Testament was evil; he was the creator of the physical universe, but was most definitely not good.

Okay, three things you have to know about me:

1) I am a devout Christian.

2) I am not one of those people who ignores obvious scientific proof of things becase it contradicts what Moses said over brunch.

3) I am a homosexual.

The Bible is pretty clear that God hates homosexuality. But however much Pastor Phelps and Jack Chick whine, it is caued by a gene. So if it's part of my geneti design, God has condemned me to Hell for something that He made me.
Why?

I am sorry, but there is not a gene that compels one to wear make up and enjoy having one's cheeks separated by red hot phalli. A gene that generates the requisite psyche? Possibly, however, I remain ardent that homosexuality is the result of childhood development.

In any case, if the Bible interdicts homosexuality, yet you are ardently gay, why believe?

I would say that something can be sinful and not be a sin itself
I don't understand this bit. Can you elaborate?

I am sorry, but there is not a gene that compels one to wear make up and enjoy having one's cheeks separated by red hot phalli.

Then I guess lesbianism is perfectly natural, huh?

Then I guess lesbianism is perfectly natural, huh?

What's wrong darling? You seem different today. Is it another woman? Because you know I could never compete with another woman...

(from the movie "Hot Shots")

Then I guess lesbianism is perfectly natural, huh?

You get my point, I'm sure.

You get my point, I'm sure.
No, honestly I don't even know what your point is supposed to be. I've only had half a cup of coffee so far, though, so it might just be me.

I don't understand this bit. Can you elaborate?

Homosexuality is a perfect example.

Homosexuality is the result of sin (the first chapter of Romans (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%201&version=47) uses homosexuality as an example for all sins). It leads to the sin of homosexual activity (does not require it, but leads to it). There is sin in and all around homosexuality, but no on chooses to be a homosexual, so it in itself cannot be a sin.

No, honestly I don't even know what your point is supposed to be. I've only had half a cup of coffee so far, though, so it might just be me.

ME NO TINKY THINKY HOMOSEXULAITY IS ENTIRELY GENETIC:rolleyes:

So, if I'm understanding this correctly, homosexuality is sinful, but is not itself a sin?

Yes.

Sinful describes the context of whatever.

Sin describes whatever itself.

ME NO TINKY THINKY HOMOSEXULAITY IS ENTIRELY GENETIC:rolleyes:
Given that your post referred exclusively to the thrusting of a phallus, you'll forgive me for failing to grasp that you were talking about all homosexuals. I know it's nutty, but I consider female human beings to be relevant in discussions of sexuality, too.

Bottle, my response to post #129 became post #126 for some reason, so look there if you're interested.

EDIT: I give up! Curses rain down upon you, Jolt!

Okay, three things you have to know about me:

1) I am a devout Christian.

2) I am not one of those people who ignores obvious scientific proof of things becase it contradicts what Moses said over brunch.

3) I am a homosexual.

The Bible is pretty clear that God hates homosexuality. But however much Pastor Phelps and Jack Chick whine, it is caued by a gene. So if it's part of my geneti design, God has condemned me to Hell for something that He made me.
Why?

I doubt that God hates homosexuals. I am betting that that part of the bible was written just to say "Hey, if you don't agree with us, God kills you." He really hasn't anymore of course. Then again, he is probably in the bathroom or just doesn't care about us anymore.

Homosexuality is a perfect example.

Homosexuality is the result of sin (the first chapter of Romans (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%201&version=47) uses homosexuality as an example for all sins). It leads to the sin of homosexual activity (does not require it, but leads to it). There is sin in and all around homosexuality, but no on chooses to be a homosexual, so it in itself cannot be a sin.
So, if I'm understanding this correctly, homosexuality is sinful, but is not itself a sin?

Given that your post referred exclusively to the thrusting of a phallus, you'll forgive me for failing to grasp that you were talking about all homosexuals. I know it's nutty, but I consider female human beings to be relevant in discussions of sexuality, too.

Never.....:eek:

Those of us with intellectual capacities and read implicit as well as explicit, meanings in a text. Some, however, can't.....

Never.....:eek:

Those of us with intellectual capacities and read implicit as well as explicit, meanings in a text. Some, however, can't.....

Usually, if one uses their intellectual capacities, and reads "implicit" meanings into a post, they're accused of putting words in someone else's mouth.

Okay, three things you have to know about me:

1) I am a devout Christian.

2) I am not one of those people who ignores obvious scientific proof of things becase it contradicts what Moses said over brunch.

3) I am a homosexual.

The Bible is pretty clear that God hates homosexuality. But however much Pastor Phelps and Jack Chick whine, it is caued by a gene. So if it's part of my geneti design, God has condemned me to Hell for something that He made me.
Why?

I am an atheist. In my opinion the hate expressed toward you in the bible is the hate of old men in beards who are dead and gone.

Cheer up! Hugsis!

Usually, if one uses their intellectual capacities, and reads "implicit" meanings into a post, they're accused of putting words in someone else's mouth.

Fair point. I wouldn't object to it, in any case.

Sorry....:)

Many Christians seem to believe it is testing your faith, possibly resulting in greater rewards in the next life.

Personaly I feel that any God that needs to test weather your good enough for him, when he created you, planned out the universed and the whole of the Space-Time, is not one worth proving your woth for.

I say be who God created you as. If he dosn't like it then HE sould be the one going to Hell for condeming an innocent Soul to eternal suffering.

If what I have said is blasmephy the I'll see you in Hell!
(Could help it:rolleyes: )