NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16656642/

I'd like to think our troops in Iraq aren't there just push Saudi interests as this makes it sound like they are doing.

The Saudi's are opposed to a US withdrawal from Iraq and are saying they may send troops to invade Iraq if the US leaves. Of course, this would put Saudi Arabia and the other arab states on a direct collision course with Iran, Syria and Hezbollah, and wam bam you have World War III.
All without Israel even being involved.

On whose side?

Interesting.

I wonder what would have happened if the Iranians said exactly the same thing. :p

As it is: powerplay. I know little about the Saudi Military, but I doubt that they'll do any better there than the Americans. Particularly in the South or in Sadr City.

pffft if Saudi Arabia wants all that trouble it can have it I’m sure Iran would be glad to tear the country in two…well not really tear more gobble up provinces

Of course this won’t be WWIII fact of the matter is Iraq is like poo nobody wants to touch it

Of course this won’t be WWIII fact of the matter is Iraq is like poo nobody wants to touch it

As opposed to poo that everybody wants to touch?:p

As opposed to poo that everybody wants to touch?:p

I'd touch Kopi Luwak

I'd put it in my mouth too (you can't say you have lived until you've had monkey poo:p)

Oh joy.

I'd touch Kopi Luwak

I'd put it in my mouth too (you can't say you have lived until you've had monkey poo:p)

And what's that coffee made with civet feces? *goes to search*

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16656642/

I'd like to think our troops in Iraq aren't there just push Saudi interests as this makes it sound like they are doing.

The Saudi's are opposed to a US withdrawal from Iraq and are saying they may send troops to invade Iraq if the US leaves. Of course, this would put Saudi Arabia and the other arab states on a direct collision course with Iran, Syria and Hezbollah, and wam bam you have World War III.
All without Israel even being involved.

I believe this merits an "Oh, fuck"

Who do you think would win? Iran or Saudi Arabia?

Who do you think would win? Iran or Saudi Arabia?
Given that we'd support the absolutist, theocratic dictatorship against the bad guys...Saudi Arabia would.

What, the Saudis are going to invade Iraq to make us stay? The only downside to a war between Iran and Saudi Arabia is that somehow the Saudi oil fields will get "damaged" and there goes the price of gasoline. Then again, maybe that's what the US needs to get it weaned off the petroleum tit.

Maybe the American people need a $20 a gallon gas tax or something.

Who do you think would win? Iran or Saudi Arabia?

Oman, Syria and maybe Egypt

Israel too I guess

With any luck Iran will close the strait of Hormuz and *gasp* the Us will have to seriously think about alternate energy. or maybe the house of reps will propose another bill to give all drivers $100.

With any luck Iran will close the strait of Hormuz and *gasp* the Us will have to seriously think about alternate energy. or maybe the house of reps will propose another bill to give all drivers $100.

I'd forgotten that hundred bucks. That one actually made me write to my elected representatives, who waited three months and then sent me back form letters that didn't quite address what I'd written (not that I expected more).

The House of Reps is America's way of removing the dumbest from the production cycle.

With any luck Iran will close the strait of Hormuz and *gasp* the Us will have to seriously think about alternate energy. or maybe the house of reps will propose another bill to give all drivers $100.

Well, the Iranians have a proven Airforce that scored several victories over the Iraqis during the Iran-Iraq War.
Saudi Arabia's saw action in Iraq but unlike Iran, Saudi Arabia has no experience with aerial dog fights.

You only need control of the air, if you really want to close the straight.

Saudi Arabia would be reliant on the US to keep control of its own skies let alone keep the straight open.

US would have no problem clearing the skies for the Saudis. Iranian planes will be dead on the ground, if the US chooses to clear the skies.

My fear is the Iranian response. I would not be suprised if a couple Iranian intel guys shot themselves full of small pox and got one way tickets to some of the busiest international airports...

US would have no problem clearing the skies for the Saudis. Iranian planes will be dead on the ground, if the US chooses to clear the skies.

My fear is the Iranian response. I would not be suprised if a couple Iranian intel guys shot themselves full of small pox and got one way tickets to some of the busiest international airports...

the easiest entry point would be Southern California, also the most populous place in the whole United States.
That could be changed in South California's local governments would start help enforcing the immigration laws which they refuse to do.

Interesting... I'd have thought the Saudis would have wanted to stay out of there.

the easiest entry point would be Southern California, also the most populous place in the whole United States.
That could be changed in South California's local governments would start help enforcing the immigration laws which they refuse to do.
Of course that wouldn't help the Iranian war effort. Secret Services are by definition pragmatic and realistic in what they do.

I don't see how biological terrorism is going to help their country in that situation, so I don't think that's what they would want to do.

Interesting... I'd have thought the Saudis would have wanted to stay out of there.

Not if we're pulling out and Iran is pulling in.

Of course that wouldn't help the Iranian war effort. Secret Services are by definition pragmatic and realistic in what they do.

I don't see how biological terrorism is going to help their country in that situation, so I don't think that's what they would want to do.

Particularly when you consider the likely retaliation from the US against Iranian targets.

Saudi Arabia against Iran would be a nasty battle. I'm not sure if the Iranian AF is that good though. They's had pilots shot down by Iraqi Mi-24 Hinds. The Iranian planes were F-4 Phantoms.

I for one think toppling Saddam was a bad idea. After the Gulf War he was just kinda sitting there. Then Iran and Saudi Arabia wouldn't be possibly going to war. And we wouldn't have troops dying in Iraq... Note I am no liberal I am just thinking...

My fear is the Iranian response. I would not be suprised if a couple Iranian intel guys shot themselves full of small pox and got one way tickets to some of the busiest international airports...

I would be. Where the hell would they get the smallpox? The few remaining stockpiles of the virus are very closely guarded, to my knowledge, and they've been freeze-dried for over thirty years. I'm not even sure if they're viable anymore.

I for one think toppling Saddam was a bad idea. After the Gulf War he was just kinda sitting there. Then Iran and Saudi Arabia wouldn't be possibly going to war. And we wouldn't have troops dying in Iraq... Note I am no liberal I am just thinking...

The Second Gulf War is generally agreed to be a pretty major fuck-up. It might even rank as the stupidest act of war since the South fired on Ft. Sumter.

On whose side?

Lmao...

If I were them, I probably would to...I don't an unstable shithole on my border that would be extremely porous, especially when my reign was somewhat unpopular.

the easiest entry point would be Southern California, also the most populous place in the whole United States.
That could be changed in South California's local governments would start help enforcing the immigration laws which they refuse to do.

Bull. The most viable target is an international airport. Spread an infectious disease via human contact, it goes and spreads all over the country/ world. Those who have it in for the States already have proven they have a martyr complex. Why risk moving the substance in a crate or box or even a pocket across the border when you can hit many places in the world with a single willing martyr. Restricting immigration (or building a fence or any of those other schemes to waste my tax dollars) will not stop a terrorist attack of this nature.


I would be. Where the hell would they get the smallpox? The few remaining stockpiles of the virus are very closely guarded, to my knowledge, and they've been freeze-dried for over thirty years. I'm not even sure if they're viable anymore.

Smallpox was just an example. There are plenty of other nasty communicable diseases.

Bull. The most viable target is an international airport. Spread an infectious disease via human contact, it goes and spreads all over the country/ world. Those who have it in for the States already have proven they have a martyr complex. Why risk moving the substance in a crate or box or even a pocket across the border when you can hit many places in the world with a single willing martyr. Restricting immigration (or building a fence or any of those other schemes to waste my tax dollars) will not stop a terrorist attack of this nature.




Smallpox was just an example. There are plenty of other nasty communicable diseases.

Have you been to a US airport lately? LAX is probably the most secure airport in the United States after the one the President uses. The only way through it is if you are some rich guy carrying thousands of dollars in your pocket (the major whole in LAX security is that they only screen people not willing to pay them $5,000 to skip security check points.)


Coming through Mexico, among other illegals is great way for terrorists to enter the United States.

Have you been to a US airport lately? LAX is probably the most secure airport in the United States after the one the President uses. The only way through it is if you are some rich guy carrying thousands of dollars in your pocket (the major whole in LAX security is that they only screen people not willing to pay them $5,000 to skip security check points.)


Coming through Mexico, among other illegals is great way for terrorists to enter the United States.
If they don't mind possibly dying, all they have to do is infect themselves with the disease before they get to the airport.

Have you been to a US airport lately? LAX is probably the most secure airport in the United States after the one the President uses. The only way through it is if you are some rich guy carrying thousands of dollars in your pocket (the major whole in LAX security is that they only screen people not willing to pay them $5,000 to skip security check points.)


Coming through Mexico, among other illegals is great way for terrorists to enter the United States.

Do they do cultures on all the people that pass through LAX? I have never been to LAX, but if I had injected enough Botulism into my body to turn me into a living breathing bio-bomb, I could still get past the security at DCA, BWI, JFK, LGA, ORD, and Heathrow. I never carry large quantities of cash and I've passed communicable diseases through airports. Hell, I always get my razor past them.

Do they do cultures on all the people that pass through LAX? I have never been to LAX, but if I had injected enough Botulism into my body to turn me into a living breathing bio-bomb, I could still get past the security at DCA, BWI, JFK, LGA, ORD, and Heathrow. I never carry large quantities of cash and I've passed communicable diseases through airports. Hell, I always get my razor past them.

Well, if unless you are carrying a large wad of cash, you'll go through the strict security system.

I don't think they culture everyone, but they stop everyone who they think looks suspicious. If you look at the ground it's suspicious. If you look up its suspicious. They even stop people for the way they walk. It's just plain stupid the things they do.
All Abdullah has to do is is flash a credit card and he gets to bypass all that security and unfounded suspicion based security stops. Heck, if he had a wad of cash he'd probably get through even faster.
The problem with LAX is they are assuming that terrorists aren't going to have credit cards, checks, or money on them. I think that assumption on their part is going to have disastrous consequences for the US.

But as for the Mexico border scenario, you don't have to get in yourself. All you have to do is infect yourself. Mingle with a group of illegals so they get what you have. And then when they get into the US, your payload enters the US with them.

First off, Saudis don't have much of an army to send to Iraq anyways. At best they will recruit other sunni armies or the jihadi army from areas like Pak and send them over. If they do send in a regular army then Iran would send in theirs and it is hard to see oil supply not disrupted.

Iran may not have naval capability that can withstand a US attack and still close down Hormuz, but they certainly can make sporadic hits, which would certainly make the price shoot up due to speculation and disruption. Plus they have scuds that can hit KSA oil fields too.

The US just cannot let this happen, so none of this will happen. KSA will be placated and there will be no escalation. All these are mere bargaining chips, methinks.

Translation: Saudi Arabia plan on annexing Southern Iraq.

Well, I can hardly say I'm surprised...

I wouldn't count out the Iranian airforce so readily, it is one of the best in the world, just in terms of experience in aerial campaigns.

I wouldn't count out the Iranian airforce so readily, it is one of the best in the world, just in terms of experience in aerial campaigns.
I don't think so.

And it definitely loses on equipment, training, logistics and maintenance.

Well, the Iranians have a proven Airforce that scored several victories over the Iraqis during the Iran-Iraq War.
Saudi Arabia's saw action in Iraq but unlike Iran, Saudi Arabia has no experience with aerial dog fights.

You only need control of the air, if you really want to close the straight.

Saudi Arabia would be reliant on the US to keep control of its own skies let alone keep the straight open.

The Saudis have (or very soon receiving) a squadron of Eurofighters. Which are very fancy aeroplanes, especially compared to the rustbuckets that the IRIAF fly. I'm afraid a Saudi-Iranian war would be a very unfair fight, considering how we have been supplying the Saudis with everything they need for building an empire, and seeing as how Iran lost out in the arms race by shunning both Cold War powers.

I for one think toppling Saddam was a bad idea. After the Gulf War he was just kinda sitting there. Then Iran and Saudi Arabia wouldn't be possibly going to war. And we wouldn't have troops dying in Iraq... Note I am no liberal I am just thinking...

Believe me, I don't think anyone would accuse you of being a Liberal after you just claimed to support one the modern eras most murderous tyrants.

Have you been to a US airport lately? LAX is probably the most secure airport in the United States after the one the President uses. The only way through it is if you are some rich guy carrying thousands of dollars in your pocket (the major whole in LAX security is that they only screen people not willing to pay them $5,000 to skip security check points.)

You can't scan for virii. As long as your game face is good enough no-one is going to have any way of telling what it is you've done until people start dropping dead. Even if you take the cowardly way and simply carry around a leaky vapour containing the virus, its going to spread as soon as customs opens the seal to check what it is.

The Saudis have (or very soon receiving) a squadron of Eurofighters. Which are very fancy aeroplanes, especially compared to the rustbuckets that the IRIAF fly. I'm afraid a Saudi-Iranian war would be a very unfair fight, considering how we have been supplying the Saudis with everything they need for building an empire, and seeing as how Iran lost out in the arms race by shunning both Cold War powers.



Believe me, I don't think anyone would accuse you of being a Liberal after you just claimed to support one the modern eras most murderous tyrants.



You can't scan for virii. As long as your game face is good enough no-one is going to have any way of telling what it is you've done until people start dropping dead. Even if you take the cowardly way and simply carry around a leaky vapour containing the virus, its going to spread as soon as customs opens the seal to check what it is.

True on the airforces, but what really counts is experience. The Iranians have experience and in flying real life dog fights whereas the Saudis don't.
The Iranians also have more real time experience with air to ground missions than the Saudis.
I think there was US military exercise a while back that showed that a veteran with a lot of experience flying an F15 could easily outdo a guy flying an F22 who had no experience with combat operations.

I don't think so.

And it definitely loses on equipment, training, logistics and maintenance.

Yes but in terms of the Iran/Iraq war, the US does not have the actual aerial experience of fighting a prolonged and intense aerial campaign against a near equal enemy over a 10 year period. The tactical data from that alone trumps any simulation or training.

And I don't believe F-14 Tomcat aircraft are to be downplayed in a tactical sense.

Following a one week long counter-air campaign, and due to a critical situation on the ground in the Khuzestan Province, the IRIAF was thrown into the land-battle, mainly in the areas of Khorramshahr, Ahwaz, and Dezful. Here, the IRIAF's performace and superiority over the Iraqi Air Force (IrAF) surprised most informed observers. Its air strikes against armour- and supply-columns sapped the offensive strength of Iraqi military. Due to heavy losses in troops and armour, Iranian air superiority, as well as an interruption of supply systems, the Iraqis had to stop their offensive, and then became involved in extremely bitter land-battles against Iranian ground forces.

Yes but in terms of the Iran/Iraq war, the US does not have the actual aerial experience of fighting a prolonged and intense aerial campaign against a near equal enemy over a 10 year period.
That's because there is no equal enemy.

And I don't believe F-14 Tomcat aircraft are to be downplayed in a tactical sense.
They are if they don't have the spare parts because the US has placed an embargo on them. And besides, those planes are decades old now.

Given that we'd support the absolutist, theocratic dictatorship against the bad guys...Saudi Arabia would.

i have to agree with neo..as usual.

it is ironic that our rallying cry is against theocratic regimes....until they are our boys.
this actually makes sense...we pull out and the saudi's move in,along with their arab allies.
iran would not stand a chance.

they would be boxed in with the us in afghani land...pakistan is in our court..the saudi's would have un ending military support from the us...like israel does....the iranians have russia and maybe china.
not enough.

i never thought these wars were about oil..i was mistaken.

it is about oil/money and china will realise that,as will the russians...then iran will be in the cold,thats why they are jockeying for position now,and unless they walk a tightrope..they will be in a war.

that really sucks,because i think that iran is and was our true friend in the gulf..till the shah.

if all the doom and gloom about depleted oil is true,well then we dont need anyone over there,except the iranians,because imho they are the most moderate of all the lot.
i have always felt the iranians were more of a partner then the saudi's

too bad bush and company did not work things out with them....years ago

should have paid attention in polysci class years ago...oh well...we are all along for the ride now.

Well, if unless you are carrying a large wad of cash, you'll go through the strict security system.

I don't think they culture everyone, but they stop everyone who they think looks suspicious. If you look at the ground it's suspicious. If you look up its suspicious. They even stop people for the way they walk. It's just plain stupid the things they do.
All Abdullah has to do is is flash a credit card and he gets to bypass all that security and unfounded suspicion based security stops. Heck, if he had a wad of cash he'd probably get through even faster.
The problem with LAX is they are assuming that terrorists aren't going to have credit cards, checks, or money on them. I think that assumption on their part is going to have disastrous consequences for the US.

But as for the Mexico border scenario, you don't have to get in yourself. All you have to do is infect yourself. Mingle with a group of illegals so they get what you have. And then when they get into the US, your payload enters the US with them.

With the airport scenario, you don't have to get yourself in either. A terrorist boards a flight in Lahore (Pakistani security, especially with the tribal types has holes the size of an Abrams). All you have to do is infect yourself and expire on the flight over, or in the terminal. Plus with an airport, you get a greater pandemic effect, because the people coming and going in the airport are likely to get farther than a group of immigrants.

Now, mind you, I have been poked, prodded, probed and violated in every conceivable manner by airport security to the point where I feel like I don't need an overhead compartment, but if anything is certain, they do not perform bacterial cultures on you. They have a device that blasts air all over you and gathers the particles off and scans them for explosives (I could go into excessive detail as to how this works, but I won't unless requested), and they have a lovely tube of water-based lubricant by the gloves (vinyl are my favorite), but they have nothing in the sort of taking a bacterial or viral culture, and there is no conceivable way they could ever have the infrastructure to do it in a way that would yield any benfit.

That's because there is no equal enemy.


They are if they don't have the spare parts because the US has placed an embargo on them. And besides, those planes are decades old now.

You might want to look at this. It looks like Iran's been getting parts for its planes after all.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16648850/

You might want to look at this. It looks like Iran's been getting parts for its planes after all.
Lol!

Go the Pentagon. :D