NationStates Jolt Archive

-Jan 15-
MANILA, Philippines - U.S. troops, in possible violation of the Philippines' constitution, have taken part in combat operations against guerrillas linked to al-Qaida, an activist group said in a report Monday.

U.S. Embassy spokesman Matthew Lussenhop disputed the allegation.
"Visiting U.S. troops in the Philippines advise, assist, share information with their Philippine counterparts, but they do not engage in combat and they have no direct role in combat operations. Any combat operations are 100 percent Filipino," he told The Associated Press.

The U.S. Special Forces contingent has been deployed in the south since 2002, nearly a year after the Muslim extremist group Abu Sayyaf kidnapped three Americans and 17 Filipinos from a resort. One of the Americans was beheaded soon after the kidnapping and another was killed during a military rescue operation the following year.

The U.S. military presence in this former American colony is a sensitive issue, heightened following the recent conviction of a U.S. Marine on rape charges.

Sources: YahooNEWS/OcceanNEWS©2004 - 2007
my2cents: at one point.. we had thousands advising, assisting, sharing information with their SouthVietnamese counterparts.

Let's see

Activist group says they are taking part, and Embassy spokesman says they are not.

Do you have a link to any proof?

my2cents: at one point.. we had thousands advising, assisting, sharing information with their SouthVietnamese counterparts.
And quite how well did that go?




On a completely different note - why the hell do you put stupid little hashes in front of your topics?

I don't know why, but I find it tremendously grating.

-Jan 15-
MANILA, Philippines - U.S. troops, in possible violation of the Philippines' constitution, have taken part in combat operations against guerrillas linked to al-Qaida, an activist group said in a report Monday.


That's a hefty amount of proof you're toting around. Let's see something besides the claims of an unidentified "activist group." How about local witnesses. The testimony of the Philipine Army units that would have been involved, testimony of locals, photographs. How about just giving us the name of this "activist group".

It's very flimsy without this.

That's a hefty amount of proof you're toting around. Let's see something besides the claims of an unidentified "activist group."

He's not going to have any. It's just his typical anti-US tripe. :rolleyes:

any proof?Nope.
.


Activist group says they are taking part, and Embassy spokesman says they are not. I guess Your brain is telling you: "Whatever the US gov say, It gotta be true"

you are very predictable sierra. ;)

Nope.
.

I guess Your brais is telling you: "Whatever the US gov say, It gotta be true"

As opposed to, "whatever the US gov says, it gotta be false"?

Nope.
.

I guess Your brais is telling you: "Whatever the US gov say, It gotta be true"

On the inverse, your brain is saying "whatever an 'activist' group say, it gotta be true." There is virtually no supporting evidence that you've provided us, nor have you provided us with any backstory. If the US troops did engage the insurgents, what conditions did it occur under? Was it an offensive operation? Were they ambushed when working with a Philipine Army unit, and under fire they responded? What?

We've so little information from what you've provided that we really cannot form any coherent opinion or perform any working analysis.

Nope.
.

I guess Your brais is telling you: "Whatever the US gov say, It gotta be true"Just cause the US gov is saying its true doesn't make it a lie. Besides, what's your point? US soldiers are currently deployed and active in many places they aren't allowed to be, all under the deckmantle of secrecy. This is either no different from that or it really is only Filipinos. Doesn't make that much of a scandal either way.

So, in summary:


An unknown activist group claims this
The news report linked offers no proof
You have linked to nothing else that proves this


Is that about right?

Nope.
.

I guess Your brain is telling you: "Whatever the US gov say, It gotta be true"

you are very predictable sierra. ;)

and who is sierra?

As opposed to, "whatever the US gov says, it gotta be false"?there is not proof.
So i gotta handle this as in probability.

in this case, I give 10% chance of trutfulness to the US gov.

and who is sierra?

Someone on the right who OD didn't like.

This is one of OD's favorite tactics, to pretend that responders are just puppets of people he doesn't like. I've seen it before.

and who is sierra?a good ol, friend.
the source of endless animated discussion, fun-fun-fun ;)

there is not proof.
So i gotta handle this as in probability.

in this case, I give 10% chance of trutfulness to the US gov.

...

You have no proof of this. So why should we believe you, exactly? Either find some proof of it, or stop beating the 'Anti-US' wardrum. I'm no fan of the current White House occupant, but if you're going to do this, find something with a shred of credibility, eh?

-Jan 15-
MANILA, Philippines - U.S. troops, in possible violation of the Philippines' constitution, have taken part in combat operations against guerrillas linked to al-Qaida, an activist group said in a report Monday.

U.S. Embassy spokesman Matthew Lussenhop disputed the allegation.
"Visiting U.S. troops in the Philippines advise, assist, share information with their Philippine counterparts, but they do not engage in combat and they have no direct role in combat operations. Any combat operations are 100 percent Filipino," he told The Associated Press.

The U.S. Special Forces contingent has been deployed in the south since 2002, nearly a year after the Muslim extremist group Abu Sayyaf kidnapped three Americans and 17 Filipinos from a resort. One of the Americans was beheaded soon after the kidnapping and another was killed during a military rescue operation the following year.

The U.S. military presence in this former American colony is a sensitive issue, heightened following the recent conviction of a U.S. Marine on rape charges.

Sources: YahooNEWS/OcceanNEWS©2004 - 2007
my2cents: at one point.. we had thousands advising, assisting, sharing information with their SouthVietnamese counterparts.

I went there this summer, my mom was born there, and Islam is common as Christianity which is common, and the government there is like the US one only dumber and more corrupt. I think the Philippines would help the US on this one even though they only see us USians as large, fat idiotic wallets to leech off of. While I was there the president of the Philipines wanted to invade Mindanao (Islamic Island of Philipines) for resources in which to help the economy, George Bush did the same in Iraq, the resource however is only oil in Bush's case, the two governments are similar in both their motives when invading Muslim territory and both break their constitutions, invade privacy and make life a corporate hell.

In conclusion both govs are nearly identical not counting culture and intelligence so why is there such a big fuss? You make the Philippines sound like victim when indeed the gov cares about as much for its people as the US does. Trust me I was there, I seen things there first hand.

there is not proof.
So i gotta handle this as in probability.

in this case, I give 10% chance of trutfulness to the US gov.

You really are bad at analysis, aren't you?

I'd expect that from someone with no training in the art of analysis though. Screwing over reality in favor of your own picture of it.

Since OD2 doesn't like to provide links to his selectively edited articles, here ya go:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070115/ap_on_re_as/philippines

Someone on the right who OD didn't like. oh I like sierra.
This place is very entertaining.. problem is.. its extremely addictive.

You really are bad at analysis, aren't you?

I'd expect that from someone with no training in the art of analysis though. Screwing over reality in favor of your own picture of it.since you have so much better trainers..

what % rating do YOU give the US gov in this case?

Ooh, eyewitnesses claimed that American military forces undertook such a horrible act as defusing landmines. :rolleyes:

since you have so much better trainers..

what % rating do YOU give the US gov in this case?

How do you not get this, OD. You have no proof this occured. You've presented njone, and simply claim that because the US govt is unreliable, it must therefore be lying this time.

Not exactly a brilliant deduction...

since you have so much better trainers..

what % rating do YOU give the US gov in this case?

I'm not giving ratings on the percentage of accuracy of the government, I'll give you a rating of the likelihood of the claim, based off of the evidence presented. That rating would come in at ~25%.

I'd desire better evidence, perhaps links to the groups report if I want a more firm estimate.

How do you not get this, OD.. blah-blah-bla (chicken talk)get some courage and tell us your %..

see Andaluciae?.. he/she has more cojones than you.

get some courage and tell us your %..

see Andaluciae?.. he/she has more cojones than you.

Since when have we had threads about estimating the percentage probability of a story being true?

Sounds about as spammy as "Last one to post here wins"

Not that spam is bad or anything. I wub spam.

get some courage and tell us your %..

see Andaluciae?.. he/she has more cojones than you.

...

Christ, OD. You're even more off of the rails than usual. I don't give percentages - I generally look for proof of accusations made. In this case, I'm turning up squat...

Since when have we had threads about estimating the percentage probability of a story being true?
we ve had posts about everysingle thing here.. reflects the infinite resources of our like-LSD-injected imagination.

What is wrong with likehood or probability %s ???

BTW this thread was not about that.. but I see absolutely nothing wrong about rating the Govs truthness
http://eyetuke.netfirms.com/Bob1.jpg

Ooh, eyewitnesses claimed that American military forces undertook such a horrible act as defusing landmines. :rolleyes:

They were violating the landmine's rights.


Seriously OD this is really flimsy, even by your standards.

And quite how well did that go?




On a completely different note - why the hell do you put stupid little hashes in front of your topics?

I don't know why, but I find it tremendously grating.

Because he's yet to realize that all he needs to do to find a thread he created is to look under his public profile and click "Threads Created"

While I was there the president of the Philipines wanted to invade Mindanao

Ah, little bit of trivia for ya -

Mindanao is part of the Philippines.

President Macapagal-Arroyo need not invade that which is already part of the Philippines.

WOW.. NSG is also helping me learn new words.. :D

Seriously OD this is really flimsy, even by your standards.

On a completely different note - why the hell do you put stupid little hashes in front of your topics?

I don't know why, but I find it tremendously grating.

so what does Flimsy and Grating means?
I cant answer if I am not sure of the meaning.

my2cents: at one point.. we had thousands advising, assisting, sharing information with their SouthVietnamese counterparts.and for some, they had to learn by watching. :p

so what does Flimsy and Grating means?
I cant answer if I am not sure of the meaning.

When tested against the criticism of the NS Generalites; your claim fell over like a card-board cutout in a hurricane.

When tested against the criticism of the NS Generalites; your claim fell over like a card-board cutout in a hurricane.
First off, I can't believe I'm doing this with OD2 at my back...

he didn't make a claim. he only drew a thin and weak comparison with Vietnam. he didn't state in his OP that he believed it happened or not.

the only stance he did make was that he doesn't hold that much to the Government telling the truth.

and that is a matter of his opinion as well as his experiences.

he didn't make a claim. he only drew a thin and weak comparison with Vietnam. he didn't state in his OP that he believed it happened or not.

He claimed that U.S. Troops were violating the Filipino constitution and some Marines had raped Filipino women, his proof was that some unknown activist group said so.

Rather flimsy.

He claimed that U.S. Troops were violating the Filipino constitution and some Marines had raped Filipino women, his proof was that some unknown activist group said so.

Rather flimsy.

the article (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070115/ap_on_re_as/philippines) says a Possible violation.


so does he in the op which appears to be a copy of the article itself.

-Jan 15-
MANILA, Philippines - U.S. troops, in possible violation of the Philippines' constitution, have taken part in combat operations against guerrillas linked to al-Qaida, an activist group said in a report Monday.
[snip]

the only thing he's guilty of is cutting and pasting parts of the article without providing a link to the full article.

since that article also says this about the Rape charges...
The U.S. military presence in this former American colony is a sensitive issue, heightened following the recent conviction of a U.S. Marine on rape charges. The Marine was not part of the U.S. task force.

and this might be the cause of the notion that they took an active part.
Philippine Senator Rodolfo Biazon, head of the Senate defense committee, said U.S. troops are explicitly banned from joining Filipino troops on combat patrols or operations.

U.S. forces, however, are allowed to fire back if they come under attack, he said.

On a completely different note - why the hell do you put stupid little hashes in front of your topics?

I don't know why, but I find it tremendously grating.
If you line up all threads in alphabetical order, OceanDrive's come first. That's why.

When tested against the criticism of the NS Generalites; your claim fell over like a card-board cutout in a hurricane.I made no claim.. zero, nada, zippo

other than the one about Vietnam, but I am sure you are not contesting that one.. are you?

He claimed that U.S. Troops were violating the Filipino constitution and some Marines had raped Filipino women, his proof was that some unknown activist group said so.The Filipinos are claiming that.. not me.

I am not an expert in Filipino constitution.

I heard a report the said the leader of Abu Sayef was killed by the Phillipine military. However something like that would not have been possible without direct US involvement. Further proof of the world wide crusade george bush has choosen to engage in.

I heard a report the said the leader of Abu Sayef was killed by the Phillipine military. However something like that would not have been possible without direct US involvement. Further proof of the world wide crusade george bush has choosen to engage in.

And killing leaders of Abu Sayef is a bad thing:rolleyes:

And killing leaders of Abu Sayef is a bad thing:rolleyes:

When you violate another countries laws to do so and then still pretend to have the moral high ground, yes, yes it certainly is.

When you violate another countries laws to do so and then still pretend to have the moral high ground, yes, yes it certainly is.

QFT 100%.

Ah, little bit of trivia for ya -

Mindanao is part of the Philippines.

President Macapagal-Arroyo need not invade that which is already part of the Philippines.

I already knew that! Mindanao however is not in complete government control thus the Philippine president wants to send troops there. If the Mindanao is iffy towards the gov they definitely won't share supplies, thus the gov settled it by invading their own soil. There was a shoot out between troops who wanted a codata and federal troops when rebels invaded a town, thats part of the Philipines. So is it really impossible to invade one's homeland? Ever hear of civil war?

so what does Flimsy and Grating means?
I cant answer if I am not sure of the meaning.
Flimsy = weak / crap
Grating = annoying

I already knew that! Mindanao however is not in complete government control thus the Philippine president wants to send troops there. If the Mindanao is iffy towards the gov they definitely won't share supplies, thus the gov settled it by invading their own soil. There was a shoot out between troops who wanted a codata and federal troops when rebels invaded a town, thats part of the Philipines. So is it really impossible to invade one's homeland? Ever hear of civil war?

Thing is, the beef in Mindanao is with MILF and smaller groups like Abu Sayyaf, not MNLF, which is the party currently running the Autonomous Region of Muslim Mindanao (which is what I presume you mean by "Mindanao however is not in complete government control") - which is only a small part of the island anyway. I don't see any reason for the government to restart a conflict with MNLF over 'resources', not after they've spent so much effort in trying to defuse the situation - and if Manila did have a dispute for economic reasons, they'd probably cut federal funding to the ARMM instead.
Arroyo's not stupid enough to do that, especially when she's got bigger fish to fry, such as the MILF and the Communists.

I went there this summer, my mom was born there, and Islam is common as Christianity which is common...

Probably want to qualify that and say that Muslims make up a small part of the population, only 5% IIRC. And I think that with recent resettlement, they are a minority in much of Mindanao now.
I think you misrepresent army movements and government motives in the south quite a fair bit. And by no means am I a fan of the Filipino army - they're definitely not saints by any stretch of the imagination. But when you see pictures of MILF rebels herding dozens of civilian hostages - mostly Christian - through places like Davao as human shields (back in 2002 I think?), it does tend to throw you behind the state.

No, no, no! It's all a big misunderstanding!

See, this is what happens when stories are passed word of mouth for a while. Everything changes.

The U.S. Military wasn't fighting in the Phillipines, they were fighting over Phillip's penis! See what happened was... *looks at watch* Well, it's a long story and I don't have the time. Just use your imagination. Bye. :)

*runs off*

Props to the US.

Ah, little bit of trivia for ya -

Mindanao is part of the Philippines.

President Macapagal-Arroyo need not invade that which is already part of the Philippines.

You could be right. I was on Mindanao for a few months last summer, and I do recall seeing a good number of Filipinos. Could have been part of the Philippines. :)