NationStates Jolt Archive

Amazing. A gizmo which sucks the air in, then sucks the water out of the air, and then spews out clean fresh water. 500 Gallons of it – a day. Every off-grid home should have one. Only problem is it’ll set you back a cool $500,000 . FEMA have already bought two, and the US Army is said to be on the verge of buying many, because getting our boys pure water is one of the key logistics requirements of any operational planning.

The box o’ tricks is from Aqua Sciences Inc, and the company says the high cost is justified because in the end it “only costs you $0.25 per gallon.” For those of us without an entire battalion at our command, however the price is still a little steep. The makers are working on a consumer model, but it won’t be out any time soon.

Its precise workings aren’t public, but they use a chemical process similar to the one that causes salt to absorb moisture from the air (and clump up your saltshaker). The water-harvesting technology was originally the brainchild of the Pentagon’s Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), which sought ways to ensure sustainable water supplies for U.S. combat troops deployed in arid regions like Iraq.

Darpa gave millions to research companies like LexCarb and Sciperio to create a contraption that could capture water in the Mesopotamian desert. But it was Aqua Sciences, that was first to put a product on the market that can operate in harsh climates.

“People have been trying to figure out how to do this for years, and we just came out of left field in response to Darpa,” said Abe Sher, chief executive officer of Aqua Sciences. “The atmosphere is a river full of water, even in the desert. It won’t work absolutely everywhere, but it works virtually everywhere.”

Sher said he is “not at liberty” to disclose details of the government contracts, except that Aqua Sciences won two highly competitive bids with “some very sophisticated companies.”

He also declined to comment on how the technology actually works.

“This is our secret sauce,” Sher said. “Like Kentucky Fried Chicken, it tastes good, but we won’t tell you what’s in it.”

“We figured out how to tap it in a very unique and proprietary way,” Sher said. “We figured out how to mimic nature, using natural salt to extract water and act as a natural decontamination.

“Think of the Dead Sea, where nothing grows around it because the salt dehydrates everything. It’s kind of like that.”

The 20-foot machine can churn out 600 gallons of water a day without using or producing toxic materials and byproducts.

Jason Rowe, chief of staff to Rep. Tom Feeney, Florida Republican, called the technology “pretty impressive.”

“I was pretty blown away by the things it’s able to do,” Rowe said. “The fact that this technology is not tied to humidity like others are makes it an attractive alternative for military bases in the Mideast where humidity is not really an option.

“It seems like it’s a cheaper alternative to trucking in bottled water, which has a shelf life,” said Rowe, who described himself as a fiscal hawk.

Once deployed, the machines could reduce the cost of logistical support for supplying water to the troops in Iraq by billions of dollars, said Stuart Roy, spokesman of the DCI Group, Aqua Sciences’ public affairs firm.

The cost to transport water by C-17 cargo planes, then truck it to the troops, runs $30 a gallon. The cost, including the machines from Aqua Sciences, will be reduced to 30 cents a gallon, Roy said.

Several systems on the market can create water through condensation, but the process requires a high level of humidity. Aqua Sciences’ machines only require 14 percent humidity, Roy said. “That’s why this technology is superior and why they are getting the contracts.”

Here’s the spec: Fully-contained mobile freshwater generation system for large-scale production, including power generator

Self-powered by diesel generator (7-day supply), or by grid electricity

Easy to install, use and maintain

Container models can produce up to 1,200 gallons of water per day for 7 days without outside electrical source or refueling.

The 40 foot container with the reverse osmosis module can provide emergency water for up to 3,000 people per day.

20 FOOT EMERGENCY WATER STATION

Rated Water Production: Up to 500 gallons/day (depending on conditions)

Dimensions: Modified 20′ container: 20′ long x 7.7′ wide x 7.8′ high

Water Containers: Individual water containers for emergency distribution included

40 FOOT EMERGENCY WATER STATION

Rated Water Production: Up to 1,200 gallons/day (depending on conditions)

Integrated R.O. Module: Included reverse osmosis module can provide up to an additional 8,000 gallons/day from an existing source dependent upon conditions.

Dimensions: Modified 40′ container: 40′ long x 7.7′ wide x 7.8′ high

Water Containers: Individual water containers for emergency distribution included

Modular design enhances reliability

Quick standard connection for external storage tank

Can be powered by electricity or generator

Portable or can be affixed to structure

Easy to install, use, maintain and move

Deliverable by truck to isolated areas

Source. (http://www.off-grid.net/index.php?p=636)

Very cool stuff. I wonder when the consumer models will be out?

That's great. I am glad that they invented something like this and I have to say that the deserts and drought ridden areas will be needing these like hotcakes.

I don't imagine water companies will be worrying about this any time soon. As with most products, even when the first ones are released there'll be a considerable period of time before they become cheap enough for the general public to buy.

$500k for a 20' harvester - I reckon it'd set you back at least $25k for a consumer model, and that'd produce maybe 50 gallons a day. Still more than most people would use in a day, I guess.

I hope to see a lot of rich businesses here in Vegas (casinos) purchase many of these. We have been stressing about water a lot lately as Vegas is one of the fastest growing cities in the US and our dessert community has a great love for water usage.

If too many of these were running around the world at once... will we see an end to rainstorms as all the moisture is sucked out of the air?

I hope to see a lot of rich businesses here in Vegas (casinos) purchase many of these. We have been stressing about water a lot lately as Vegas is one of the fastest growing cities in the US and our dessert community has a great love for water usage.

If too many of these were running around the world at once... will we see an end to rainstorms as all the moisture is sucked out of the air?

Im not a climate expert, but I dont think the rain cycle works that way.

Source. (http://www.off-grid.net/index.php?p=636)

Very cool stuff. I wonder when the consumer models will be out?

why am I seeing images of Star Wars... the start of Moisture Farms.

Ingenious. Let's see what becomes of it in the long term.

why am I seeing images of Star Wars... the start of Moisture Farms.

Aw, but I was going to go to the Tashi station to pick up some power converters...

I think whats really amazing about this is that it creates no harmful waste. This could really be a boon to third world nations with clean water problems. When you compare the cost to what it manages to accomplish its not that expensive.

Im not a climate expert, but I dont think the rain cycle works that way.

true - most clouds probably form over the ocean anyway.

I do find it amazing that there is no waste. I hope that is the truth.

I would love to see these start going to people who really need clean water (India, Africa...)

Source. (http://www.off-grid.net/index.php?p=636)

Very cool stuff. I wonder when the consumer models will be out?

Why does this remind me of dune ...

$500k for a 20' harvester - I reckon it'd set you back at least $25k for a consumer model, and that'd produce maybe 50 gallons a day. Still more than most people would use in a day, I guess.
Oddly enough, I was just now googling to see what average daily water usage is and it's between 80 and 200 gallons a day per person in the US.

(Reason why I was looking it up is I got my water bill y'day and my average daily consumption over the past 4 months was 0.149 cu m, or 40 gallons. I was curious as to how that compared to the average)

Aw, but I was going to go to the Tashi station to pick up some power converters...you can play with your friends some other time. I reall need you here.

Im not a climate expert, but I dont think the rain cycle works that way.maybe not, but by removing the moisture from the air may have a detrimental effect on the local fauna and flora who extrapolate moisture from the air to survive.

you can play with your friends some other time. I reall need you here.

maybe not, but by removing the moisture from the air may have a detrimental effect on the local fauna and flora who extrapolate moisture from the air to survive.


I hadn't thought of that one. Good thought.

I hadn't thought of that one. Good thought.

and while it may not effect weather patterns Globally, what are the affects locally? it may not halt rainfall in the area... or will it? (Just talking about that area) and what of the effects of people near by? a person pissing near it will be putting moisture into the air, and you have sweat, saliva... I hope they did alot of testing in reguards to long term usage.

and while it may not effect weather patterns Globally, what are the affects locally? it may not halt rainfall in the area... or will it? (Just talking about that area) and what of the effects of people near by? a person pissing near it will be putting moisture into the air, and you have sweat, saliva... I hope they did alot of testing in reguards to long term usage.

I think it would depend first on how many are operating and secondly what is done with the waste water.

Even so, these will most likely be used in places that lack abundant water tables to begin with or places where the groundwater might be undrinkable due to contamination or overconsumption (Third World nations and China come to mind). Most places will likely not need them because their water supplies are abundant and inexpensive enough to not need them.

They might also have agricultural or cleanup uses as well, or even to replenish a depleted water table.

and while it may not effect weather patterns Globally, what are the affects locally? it may not halt rainfall in the area... or will it? (Just talking about that area) and what of the effects of people near by? a person pissing near it will be putting moisture into the air, and you have sweat, saliva... I hope they did alot of testing in reguards to long term usage.

yeah, will long periods of exposure to the air near one of these dry a persons skin out?

Something that really gets annoyign here in Vegas is the high amount of electrostatic energy in the air from the low humidity. I get shocked or shock someone with nearly every movement it seems most days.

yeah, will long periods of exposure to the air near one of these dry a persons skin out?

I would think so, although most likely they're not going to be in places near large numbers of people. Of course, if you live in the desert already I wouldn't think this would be a particularly severe problem.

Something that really gets annoyign here in Vegas is the high amount of electrostatic energy in the air from the low humidity. I get shocked or shock someone with nearly every movement it seems most days.

I wonder if there would be a way to generate power with these things due to that kind of effect?

You could concievably have a combination power plant, water pumping station, and treatment facility in one site. If this were possible you could even use it to produce hydrogen via hydrolysis; it would be able to supply four different uses in one site, which would be great for the ROI and viability of the harvester.

Source. (http://www.off-grid.net/index.php?p=636)

Very cool stuff. I wonder when the consumer models will be out?

Very cool stuff? I have this bridge I'd like to talk to you about. It cools the air above the water and caused rain to come out of the moisture. All you have to do is to put a "rain collection trough" between the bridge and the water to collect the rain. Hell, you can make millions form the purified water.

I'll give you a very good deal on the bridge. Just call BR-547. Operators are standing by. :p

You could concievably have a combination power plant, water pumping station, and treatment facility in one site.
it already is. if you read the article thoroughly, you'll see that it comes with reverse osmosis capabilities, meaning it can take undrinkable water and make it into drinkable water

I think it would depend first on how many are operating and secondly what is done with the waste water. say one. placed in a settlement/camp. what affects will there be to the people living there as well as the plant/animal life?

Even so, these will most likely be used in places that lack abundant water tables to begin with or places where the groundwater might be undrinkable due to contamination or overconsumption (Third World nations and China come to mind). Most places will likely not need them because their water supplies are abundant and inexpensive enough to not need them.

I would think so, although most likely they're not going to be in places near large numbers of people. Of course, if you live in the desert already I wouldn't think this would be a particularly severe problem.
but they (the machines) won't be out alone in a desert. they would be used in a settlement or military outpost (army picked up a couple.) also, something has to power it. so it can't be in a desolate place.

and in most settlements, you will have kids...

then again, why not have several in cities and urban areas. if it makes tap water drinkable again... it will sure put alot of bottling companines out of business.

I wonder if there would be a way to generate power with these things due to that kind of effect?

You could concievably have a combination power plant, water pumping station, and treatment facility in one site. If this were possible you could even use it to produce hydrogen via hydrolysis; it would be able to supply four different uses in one site, which would be great for the ROI and viability of the harvester.a self sustaning system. needing only an external power for the initial startup. could be possible.

Oddly enough, I was just now googling to see what average daily water usage is and it's between 80 and 200 gallons a day per person in the US.

(Reason why I was looking it up is I got my water bill y'day and my average daily consumption over the past 4 months was 0.149 cu m, or 40 gallons. I was curious as to how that compared to the average)
...

The hell? What, did you take a shower once a month?! How'd you pull that off?

I would think so, although most likely they're not going to be in places near large numbers of people. Of course, if you live in the desert already I wouldn't think this would be a particularly severe problem.



I wonder if there would be a way to generate power with these things due to that kind of effect?

You could concievably have a combination power plant, water pumping station, and treatment facility in one site. If this were possible you could even use it to produce hydrogen via hydrolysis; it would be able to supply four different uses in one site, which would be great for the ROI and viability of the harvester.



hehe - sweet idea - the incoming air can turn something to create energy, the water pouring out can turn somethign to create energy and then something can collect the static electricity as well - pool it together to run the water machine and its almost a perpetual motion machine :P

say one. placed in a settlement/camp. what affects will there be to the people living there as well as the plant/animal life?

Good question. It would have to be tested in order to see what effects it might have on the local environment. One concern in particular might be a higher risk of wildfires.

but they (the machines) won't be out alone in a desert. they would be used in a settlement or military outpost (army picked up a couple.) also, something has to power it. so it can't be in a desolate place.

and in most settlements, you will have kids...

What I mean is they would be nearby, but still at a far enough distance to avoid problems like air/water pollution and too many people nearby. Security is going to be essential, just like it is with ordinary water pumping stations; you can't run the risk of someone being injured by one of these things.

a self sustaning system. needing only an external power for the initial startup. could be possible.

That would make the most sense, especially if they're going to be put in desert areas; you can't risk having all kinds of aboveground infrastructure, so a system that could power itself would be very helpful.

...

The hell? What, did you take a shower once a month?! How'd you pull that off?

easy!
short showers.
less flushing.
not at home most of the time.

a self sustaning system. needing only an external power for the initial startup. could be possible.
hydrolysis uses more power than you can get from using the hydrogen, so no. it's called thermodynamics.
an the other hand, a solar powered version should be viable, considering in most deserts, there's alot of sun exposure and the system has alot of surface area that would be under constant sun exposure

hehe - sweet idea - the incoming air can turn something to create energy, the water pouring out can turn somethign to create energy and then something can collect the static electricity as well - pool it together to run the water machine and its almost a perpetual motion machine :P

On-site power's going to be big in the future, so I think this would be a really good idea. It would make them much more reliable, especially in places where power outages are be frequent.

They could also be used as a source of clean water and backup power during emergencies.

Source. (http://www.off-grid.net/index.php?p=636)

Very cool stuff. I wonder when the consumer models will be out?

They have those in Star Wars, except they're called moisture vaporators. (knows way too much)

Weird.

That's just like in Star Wars! WIth the harvesters on Tatooine! Next they'll be coming out with X-Wings, and giant star destroyers!

easy!
short showers.
less flushing.
not at home most of the time.

Less flushing, I can do. Short showers...a wee bit more difficult. 'Course, we have well water so we don't pay for our water--just an extra bit for the power the pump uses--and I live with five other people in the house, so what I do is going to change things only slightly anyway...

What I mean is they would be nearby, but still at a far enough distance to avoid problems like air/water pollution and too many people nearby. Security is going to be essential, just like it is with ordinary water pumping stations; you can't run the risk of someone being injured by one of these things.
but how near is "nearby" and what is safe for "Far enough" and seeing that it's drawing moisture out of the air, the air around it will become extra dry, add to that the air currents of the area, and this extra dry air can cover hundreds of square miles (600 gallons a day...)

security (usually means guards in areas where these would be used) would have to be stationed closer to insure safety of the machine. that would mean that as the air around the machine dries out, it starts refilling itself with other sources... the moisture of humans. our skins were not ment to hold in moisture, but to release it as part of our tempurature control. so those stationed there would dehydrate faster as they perspire more and that gets put into the air where it gets sucked up and the cycle continues.

but how near is "nearby" and what is safe for "Far enough" and seeing that it's drawing moisture out of the air, the air around it will become extra dry, add to that the air currents of the area, and this extra dry air can cover hundreds of square miles (600 gallons a day...)

security (usually means guards in areas where these would be used) would have to be stationed closer to insure safety of the machine. that would mean that as the air around the machine dries out, it starts refilling itself with other sources... the moisture of humans. our skins were not ment to hold in moisture, but to release it as part of our tempurature control. so those stationed there would dehydrate faster as they perspire more and that gets put into the air where it gets sucked up and the cycle continues.
so they drink more of the water that it outputs. remember: while it may increase their rate of dehydration, it shouldn't be by much, considering the normal climate of those areas would be dry enough to do that normally

That's just like in Star Wars! WIth the harvesters on Tatooine! Next they'll be coming out with X-Wings, and giant star destroyers!

I just said that, man. See the post above yours.

That's just like in Star Wars! WIth the harvesters on Tatooine! Next they'll be coming out with X-Wings, and giant star destroyers!

I was thinking more of Dune myself, but Star Wars works for me as well.

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The hell? What, did you take a shower once a month?! How'd you pull that off?

I shower twice a day, thank you very much!
My home usage is low due to several things:
I have a just quick rinse in the am at home and a nice long hot shower in the pm at the gym.
I only do the dishes twice a week, whether they need it or not (usually I just rinse things and reuse them)
I don't have a washing machine - taking it to the cleaners is more convenient as they dry, press and fold it for me.
Hell, I usually wait til I get to work or the coffee shop before I take a dump (to save stinking my place out, I stink the work toilet out. The mall the cafe's in has disposable paper seats and toilet attendants who clean the cubicles after each visit. It's a joy to use!)


Indeed the 40 gallons a day is high due to having started up a relationship and having the g/f stay over. The four months previous to this bill I was averaging <25 gallons a day.

Im not a climate expert, but I dont think the rain cycle works that way.

I think the ocean would keep that rain coming.

I have a just quick rinse in the am at home and a nice long hot shower in the pm at the gym.

Yeah, I have to admit I do this too...once before and once after. I personally like it more because the hot water in the dorm is never very hot, and these showers are a lot nicer.

Of course, I then spend about 4 hours at the pool/hot tub/sauna area so it's more than just a shower.

So it's basically a giant dehumidifier.

Aw, but I was going to go to the Tashi station to pick up some power converters...

I used to bulls-eye womp rats in my T-16 back home ...

So it's basically a giant dehumidifier.

Ever wonder what would happen if a humidifier and a dehumidifier in the same room as each other were turned on at the same time?

Curses, beaten to the Star Wars references.

[Replying to Demented Hamster's 40 US gallons/day]
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The hell? What, did you take a shower once a month?! How'd you pull that off?

I just did Sums, and I used about 0.1716 cubic metres (45.33 US gallons) per day over the course of my last bill.

I live by myself so that included everything; laundry, washing up, flushing the loo, about five baths per week (no shower)... I honestly don't see how they manage to get the "usual" figure to 80-200 US gallons per day. That's a shedload of water :s

So it's basically a giant dehumidifier.

Non-toxic dehumidifier output a saline solution that is not really good for people to use (hence the "keep away from small children and pets, and don't use the water to drink or for floral nutrition", on the other hand, it works wonders to kill off that annyoing grass between the terrace boards *sigh*).

In any case, I'm having serious problems with this. The earlier versions of "rainmakers", "watermakers", or whatever, were as stated implemented in already humid environments that somehow lacked the rainfall to offer drinking water to the populace (regions in the Andes, for instance). There they work with giant "nets" or "spiderwebs" to gather the needed water, without so much as changing the hydrostatic balance in the surrounding atmosphere (basically it's a dew collector). If this new machine, however, works as intended and can deliver water to arid areas by totally cleaning out any humidity in the surrounding atmosphere, I would imagine that the relatively low amount of humidity in the atmosphere is quite essential in sustaining the local ecosystem (even if it's low: remember people, just because humans have problems living in deserts, that doesn't mean that deserts are "bad" - that's to all of you antropocentric nitwits :p ). Hence, perhaps there are some longterm (or even shortterm) effects that can turn out to be problematic. Maybe not to humans per se, but surely to the surrounding ecosystem, of which humans are an integral part.

My personal solution would be too simple, perhaps: if it's problematic to live in deserts, then don't live in deserts. :D

I honestly don't see how they manage to get the "usual" figure to 80-200 US gallons per day. That's a shedload of water :s
I assume you eat. That means you take some of the credit for the HUGE amount of irrigation used to grow vegies for you to eat, and the grain your meat eats. Also , the usual figure factors in the shower at the gym, all your waste treatment, even if you take a dump at home, the water used to cool down the power station that you get your power from, etc.

From what I am reading, the water content of air can reach 3% at 30C at sea level. From what I understand, at this point, you will get condensation(rain) if the temperature falls.

So, conversely, if you take water out of the air, the temperature will rise, and the pressure will drop. You will get a wind blowing into the area from somewhere with a higher pressure. I doubt you'd even notice a breeze though.

1 liter would take 15 liters of air at that rate. 1 liter of water is found in a volume of 500 liters of air. So 500 liters would only be a volume of air of 250 000 liters.

The average person takes about 25000 breaths per day, at 8 liters or so. So thats 400 000 liters, roughly.

We dont take much, if any water out of the air though. Still, I dont think one of these machines would have much effect. The amount of air that it takes in is miniscule.

Or all my math is borked. I have a funny feeling it is. Still, in a desert you would need a lot more air, but i still dont think you would have a noticible climate difference, or even a measurable one.

I used to bulls-eye womp rats in my T-16 back home ...
"he's a kid from a desert planet who thinks his ability to shoot Womprats from a speeder makes him a good pilot."
"Begging the General's pardon, but Luke Skywalker was a kid from a desert planet who's ability to shoot Womprats from a speeder did make him a good pilot."
Rouge Squadron Series - Michael Stackpole

Ever wonder what would happen if a humidifier and a dehumidifier in the same room as each other were turned on at the same time?whatever happens it will be humidifying to all around.

Or all my math is borked. I have a funny feeling it is. Still, in a desert you would need a lot more air, but i still dont think you would have a noticible climate difference, or even a measurable one.
Not sure about all the maths, but the average human lung capacity is around 5 litres, and when you breathe in, you only take in at most 1 litre of air.

And if one litre of water is found in 500 litres of air, then you'd need 25000, not 250000, litres of air to get 500 litres.