NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6261885.stm

Yep, that's right.

So, when Eden turned down his request for a union between France and Britain the French prime minister [Guy Mollet] came up with another proposal.

This time, while Eden was on a visit to Paris, he requested that France be allowed to join the British Commonwealth.

...

Seeing these words for the first time, Henri Soutou, professor of contemporary history at Paris's Sorbonne University almost fell off his chair.

Stammering repeatedly he said: "Really I am stuttering because this idea is so preposterous. The idea of joining the Commonwealth and accepting the headship of Her Majesty would not have gone down well. If this had been suggested more recently Mollet might have found himself in court."

Imagine. France being subordinate to the UK. Forget the Hundred Years War, the Norman invasion, us repeatedly capturing Calais - all we needed to unite the two countries was an idiot in charge of France. :p

Yeah... I really can't imagine the French being subordinate to the British. Maybe as a proper unified country, but not as a subordinate nation. Mollet could have been right. There might have been much bondship between the French and the British due to two world wars and them both developing welfare states.

...

I want a parallel-universe-seeing-thingy. This would make for a really interesting alternative history. Unlike those boring ones where everyone askes what would have happened if Hitler had never come to power.

Yeah... I really can't imagine the French being subordinate to the British. Maybe as a proper unified country, but not as a subordinate nation. Mollet could have been right. There might have been much bondship between the French and the British due to two world wars and them both developing welfare states.
Possibly, although I think a lot of both French and British people would have rejected the idea of a union. Both have long, proud histories and cultures, and would have felt that it could mean losing parts of their culture.

I want a parallel-universe-seeing-thingy. This would make for a really interesting alternative history. Unlike those boring ones where everyone askes what would have happened if Hitler had never come to power.
Thingy? That'd be the technical term, would it?

Imagine. France being subordinate to the UK.

Technically, no. The Commonwealth is supposed to be a partnership of equals. Which is why it's referred to as the "Commonwealth of Nations" now, and not the "British Commonwealth".

But... At the time, of course... In theory the white Dominions were more or less equal to the UK, so presumably France would have had that status, but in practice the UK was top of the pack.

Interesting to see such an idea was even conceivable fifty years ago.

Imagine. France being subordinate to the UK. Forget the Hundred Years War, the Norman invasion, us repeatedly capturing Calais - all we needed to unite the two countries was an idiot in charge of France. :p

I think we can all agree that such a unification would create the most obnoxious country of all time. :D

*flees*

I think we can all agree that such a unification would create the most obnoxious country of all time. :D

*flees*
I don't quite follow how the unification of France and Britain would create America. ;)

*stays*

imagine the Jazz scene :eek:

Technically, no. The Commonwealth is supposed to be a partnership of equals. Which is why it's referred to as the "Commonwealth of Nations" now, and not the "British Commonwealth".

But... At the time, of course... In theory the white Dominions were more or less equal to the UK, so presumably France would have had that status, but in practice the UK was top of the pack.

Interesting to see such an idea was even conceivable fifty years ago.
Well, the Queen would have been France's head of state. So technically, France would have been subordinate to the UK. Oh, if I'd been Prime Minister back then I'd have had such a good time fucking around with France. Unprofessional, but I'm sure history would treat me well. British history, at least.

I don't quite follow how the unification of France and Britain would create America. ;)

*stays*

*returns*

America isn't obnoxious!

It's arrogant, hypocritical, ignorant, misinformed, and apathetic...but it's NOT obnoxious!

:p

*returns*

America isn't obnoxious!

It's arrogant, hypocritical, ignorant, misinformed, and apathetic...but it's NOT obnoxious!

:p
I can live with being obnoxious if it means I'm not the above.

For more, the BBC has this audio report (http://news.bbc.co.uk/nolavconsole/ifs_news/hi/nb_rm_fs.stm?news=1&bbram=1&bbwm=1&nbram=1&nbwm=1&nol_storyid=6261961).

Maybe such a union could have helped lead to the birth of a British Republic? :D

Well, the Queen would have been France's head of state. So technically, France would have been subordinate to the UK. Oh, if I'd been Prime Minister back then I'd have had such a good time fucking around with France. Unprofessional, but I'm sure history would treat me well. British history, at least.

You really don't understand this Commonwealth thing, do you?

There are dozens of nations in the Commonwealth that don't recognise the Queen as their head of state, and less than twenty that do.

The ones that do (Australia, New Zealand, Canada, etc) are equal to the UK, not beneath it. We have separate parliaments and Governments, and the Queen's title is changed when performing duties in these nations. For example, when acting in an official capacity here, she is the Queen of Australia (too lazy to write full title), NOT the Queen of England.

Lots of separate, constitutional monarchies that just happen to share the same monarch. It's not that hard to understand.

SNIP

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke

Yeah... I really can't imagine the French being subordinate to the British.

I certainly can see it. Look at it this way - now history shows that the French almost surrendered to the British - without a shot being fired.

I certainly can see it. Look at it this way - now history shows that the French almost surrendered to the British - without a shot being fired.Eh? What? When? It's already been dicussed that being a member of the commonwealth would not have been surrender as France would have maintained its sovereignty. I'm not sure they even needed to reconise the Queen as Head of State as India didn't at the time, and still doesn't.

Nor if they had merged and become one country as it wasn't the British who proposed the idea. It was the French PM. So you can't say that France would have been forced into an agreement like Austria pre-WWII.

edit: that would have been neat. A british and french commonwealth, with most of all Britains and Frances previous colonies. They could all be one big happy family. Then later on we could have added the Spanish and then the rest of europe. Then it could be hugs for all.

I want a parallel-universe-seeing-thingy.

The Fing-longer was a much more practical invention.

The Fing-longer was a much more practical invention.What does that do? This is reminding me of Leonard da Quirm. A fictional character who invented the 'Going-Under-The-Water-Safely Device' and the 'Engine for the Neutralizing of Information by the Generation of Miasmic Alphabets'

What does that do? This is reminding me of Leonard da Quirm. A fictional character who invented the 'Going-Under-The-Water-Safely Device' and the 'Engine for the Neutralizing of Information by the Generation of Miasmic Alphabets'
It's Leonard of Quirm. I believe you're getting mixed up with Ponce da Quirm.

And the 'Going-Under-The-Water-Safely Device'...that would be the one that can be submersed in a marine environment? :p

It's Leonard of Quirm. I believe you're getting mixed up with Ponce da Quirm.

And the 'Going-Under-The-Water-Safely Device'...that would be the one that can be submersed in a marine environment? :p

Don't for get the improved mining explosive, which should be able to remove the mountain. Mushroom clouds all over. But no one would ever think about using it as a weapon!

I'm a British Francophile. So I'd love to have seen Britain and France working side by side like that. Working together in a union of equals, we could have been an extremely powerful force on the world stage.

Would be interesting, the two nations have been intertwined for centuries.

its a bit like Wilson (?) wanting the UK to become apart of the USA

its a bit like Wilson (?) wanting the UK to become apart of the USAI find the idea of a French-British union fairly appealing. It would have been a equal union with much sharing of culture (that wasn't already shared).

But a US-UK union? Wouldn't work. In essence it'd be the same as Britain acceding to the union, becoming the 51st state and fully americanising. By no means an equal union. Yughk...