NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,243605,00.html

LOS ANGELES — Mike Buday isn't married to his last name. In fact, he and his fiancee decided before they wed that he would take hers. But Buday was stunned to learn that he couldn't simply become Mike Bijon when they married in 2005.

...

Instead of completing the expensive, time-consuming process, Buday and his wife, Diana Bijon, enlisted the American Civil Liberties Union and filed a discrimination lawsuit against the state of California. They claim the difficulty faced by a husband seeking to change his name violates the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment.

I applaud this lawsuit. As I said in an earlier thread, either one should have the option to take the last name of their husband/wife.

Oh he does. But when you get married, there is a limited, 'change your last name for free' card they pass out at the ceremony. If you don't stick to the strict terms, or let the offer expire, you have to go through the same process as anyone wishing to change their last name. *shrugs* I figure, there should be no free card...why change your last name anyway?

*shrugs* I figure, there should be no free card...why change your last name anyway?
Because you've got a shitty last name, maybe?
A mate of mine in NZ last name was, 'Hamberger' - fine when he was growing up in Germany but a bit sucky moving to NZ. When he got married he took on his wife's name rather than her taking on his. Made a bit more sense.
Would like raising a family of Hambergers?

Because you've got a shitty last name, maybe?
A mate of mine in NZ last name was, 'Hamberger' - fine when he was growing up in Germany but a bit sucky moving to NZ. When he got married he took on his wife's name rather than her taking on his. Made a bit more sense.
Would like raising a family of Hambergers?

For some reason, that made me laugh hysterically though I know it shouldn't have....

How difficult is it to change your name in the US?

Here in the UK you just have to complete and sign a Deed of Change of Name (with recognised wording and with sufficient witnesses signing it) and your name is legally changed. You can download the documents for free off the internet.

Although, to ensure full recognition (even if it's not legally required), it's recommended that your send a copy of your Deed of Change of Name to the passport office, driving licensing agency, your bank etc. to get your documents updated and to make sure they know of your name change.

Oh he does. But when you get married, there is a limited, 'change your last name for free' card they pass out at the ceremony. If you don't stick to the strict terms, or let the offer expire, you have to go through the same process as anyone wishing to change their last name. *shrugs* I figure, there should be no free card...why change your last name anyway?
That's only a one-way card--if you're a woman and want to change it. If you're a man, there's a shitload of bother and expense, which is why this guy is suing. Hope he wins.

That's only a one-way card--if you're a woman and want to change it. If you're a man, there's a shitload of bother and expense, which is why this guy is suing. Hope he wins.

Though I like my last name, and am rather fond if it, and would not change it, if this dude wants to, I say we let him. What bother is it doing the rest of society eh?

How difficult is it to change your name in the US?

Here in the UK you just have to complete and sign a Deed of Change of Name (with recognised wording and with sufficient witnesses signing it) and your name is legally changed. You can download the documents for free off the internet.

Although, to ensure full recognition (even if it's not legally required), it's recommended that your send a copy of your Deed of Change of Name to the passport office, driving licensing agency, your bank etc. to get your documents updated and to make sure they know of your name change.

must be harder than i thought.

i thought it was decided by a supreme court case that an american is free to use any name he likes without doing anything but asking to be called that name (there might be an exception for non-name names).

im glad he's got the aclu involved, if its not a right, it should be.

Though I like my last name, and am rather fond if it, and would not change it, if this dude wants to, I say we let him. What bother is it doing the rest of society eh?

None, but it batters down yet another bastion of unquestioned male privilege, and there's lots of people in the US (and elsewhere) who just freak when something like that happens.

i did know some one who's wife made his last name her middle name as she did not have one an she and him like her last name

must be harder than i thought.

i thought it was decided by a supreme court case that an american is free to use any name he likes without doing anything but asking to be called that name (there might be an exception for non-name names).

im glad he's got the aclu involved, if its not a right, it should be.

It does sound, to me anyway, insane that an individual cannot change their name easily....I thought the US acknowledged English common law prior to independence? As far as I know (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), deed polls and deeds of name change are all part of common law before that?

For some reason, that made me laugh hysterically though I know it shouldn't have....
Why not? I did.
In fact I think I was somewhat responsible for his name change. His first name is Andreas and I used to go into his office and tell the secretary, "I want A. Hamberger please."

A mate of mine in NZ last name was, 'Hamberger' - fine when he was growing up in Germany but a bit sucky moving to NZ. When he got married he took on his wife's name rather than her taking on his. Made a bit more sense.
Would like raising a family of Hambergers?

REAL ULTIMATE POWER!

It does sound, to me anyway, insane that an individual cannot change their name easily....I thought the US acknowledged English common law prior to independence? As far as I know (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), deed polls and deeds of name change are all part of common law before that?
But I think the difference here isn't that he wants to change his name thru a deed poll. He wants to change it thru marriage.
At present in the US (correct me if I'm wrong), anyone of voting age can change their name thru deed poll, but only women can do it thru marriage.

But I think the difference here isn't that he wants to change his name thru a deed poll. He wants to change it thru marriage.
At present in the US (correct me if I'm wrong), anyone of voting age can change their name thru deed poll, but only women can do it thru marriage.

Ahhh ok. That's a different situation, I suppose, but completely discriminatory.

Actually, I don't know how that situation works in the UK, the only man I know who took his wife's name did it by deed poll, but I think (and please correct me if I'm wrong) it's possible to change his name through marriage.

Mike Buday

Hehe, that name made me laugh :D Becase there is this dutch stand-up comedian called "Mike Bodee", and if you hear both names very quickly it's almost the same :) Only the u and the o are pronounced differently

Because you've got a shitty last name, maybe?
A mate of mine in NZ last name was, 'Hamberger' - fine when he was growing up in Germany but a bit sucky moving to NZ. When he got married he took on his wife's name rather than her taking on his. Made a bit more sense.
Would like raising a family of Hambergers?

Ronald McDonald would.

*boom tish*

http://www.smileyhut.com/music/drums.gif

Doesn't surprise me

How difficult is it to change your name in the US?I think it varies by state.

In MI, for non-marriage changes, last I checked it required filing with the court and showing up before a judge to swear that you weren't doing it for some fraudulent purpose. And, of course, telling all your credit cards, banks, ID-issuers, etc.

It's that last bit that's kept me from going ahead and changing mine. The amount of places I'd have to inform (and hence, the amount of chances for screw-ups) means that it'd be a huge pain in the butt, even though the basic legal requirements seem fairly simple. It definitely would have been easier if I'd gone ahead and done it when I was 18 and hadn't accumulated many accounts!

As for "non-name" names, there aren't any official names in the US. So legally it makes no difference. But socially, it's better to have a name that doesn't make people choke back laughter, or otherwise cause them to react in an undesireable way...

Because you've got a shitty last name, maybe?
A mate of mine in NZ last name was, 'Hamberger' - fine when he was growing up in Germany but a bit sucky moving to NZ. When he got married he took on his wife's name rather than her taking on his. Made a bit more sense.
Would like raising a family of Hambergers?I would eat them when the got older then.;)

But I think the difference here isn't that he wants to change his name thru a deed poll. He wants to change it thru marriage.
At present in the US (correct me if I'm wrong), anyone of voting age can change their name thru deed poll, but only women can do it thru marriage.
Oh, wow, that would suck! Can't believe that's still on the books, actually. No wonder he's suing.

In Germany, the registry office person officiating the civil ceremony part of the wedding simply asks the couple during the ceremony which name they want to take/keep.That's it.

I would eat them when the got older then.;)


Just be careful of salmonella.

Hehe, that name made me laugh :D Becase there is this dutch stand-up comedian called "Mike Bodee", and if you hear both names very quickly it's almost the same :) Only the u and the o are pronounced differently

Made me think of Ted Bundy.

Oh, wow, that would suck! Can't believe that's still on the books, actually. No wonder he's suing.

In Germany, the registry office person officiating the civil ceremony part of the wedding simply asks the couple during the ceremony which name they want to take/keep.That's it.

Germany charges you horrendously if you want to change your name (or even just the spelling) without marriage.
I've got both a "ß" and an "ä" in my name and tried to have the spelling changed to "ss" and "ae" respectively. They wanted 400 Euros for that....

Made me think of Ted Bundy.

Which always makes me think of Al Bundy.

Germany charges you horrendously if you want to change your name (or even just the spelling) without marriage.
I've got both a "ß" and an "ä" in my name and tried to have the spelling changed to "ss" and "ae" respectively. They wanted 400 Euros for that....
Oh, I know.

It's weird that non-wedding related name changes are so easy & cheap in the US (and elsewhere, probably) but here they suck and aren't really done much (probably partly because of that very fact), yet wedding-wise it's much easier here for both sexes.

I'm guessing you obviously simply spell it with "ae" and "ss" now, right? Did you ever run into any problems because of it, seeing how it's different from what your passport says?

I imagine people would still maybe know that "ä" is the same as "ae", but I doubt many people would know what to make of an "ß". They'd probably accuse you for randomly subsituting two "s" for a "B". :p

I have part of the same problem in that my last name is sometimes spelled with an "ß" and sometimes with an "ss". My grandparents spelled it "ss", my dad "ß" and he claims that's how it used to be before. I like the two "s" better so I use that - except in my signature where a nice "ß" flourish at the end is just so much better...

A few years ago when I was renewing my passport they unfortunately spotted the difference between spelling and signature and made me pick one, so I picked the spelling version. Which means that I now have a "signature" in my passport that looks like a firstgrader's. I'm waiting for the time some overeager US immigration officer points out that that is not the way I actually sign and puts me away. :p

None, but it batters down yet another bastion of unquestioned male privilege, and there's lots of people in the US (and elsewhere) who just freak when something like that happens.

Huh? The male has LESS privilege here not more. The female can change her name easily and for "free" and the male is the one being subjected to extra charge and process. But nice male rant anyway.

Huh? The male has LESS privilege here not more. The female can change her name easily and for "free" and the male is the one being subjected to extra charge and process. But nice male rant anyway.

Uh... If you spend about half a second thinking about how come there's a provision for the woman taking the man's name and none (except the usual legal name-changing process) for the man taking hers, you might see the light and The Nazz' point.

But nice male rant anyway. ;)

Oh, I know.

It's weird that non-wedding related name changes are so easy & cheap in the US (and elsewhere, probably) but here they suck and aren't really done much (probably partly because of that very fact), yet wedding-wise it's much easier here for both sexes.

I'm guessing you obviously simply spell it with "ae" and "ss" now, right? Did you ever run into any problems because of it, seeing how it's different from what your passport says?

I imagine people would still maybe know that "ä" is the same as "ae", but I doubt many people would know what to make of an "ß". They'd probably accuse you for randomly subsituting two "s" for a "B". :p

I have part of the same problem in that my last name is sometimes spelled with an "ß" and sometimes with an "ss". My grandparents spelled it "ss", my dad "ß" and he claims that's how it used to be before. I like the two "s" better so I use that - except in my signature where a nice "ß" flourish at the end is just so much better...

A few years ago when I was renewing my passport they unfortunately spotted the difference between spelling and signature and made me pick one, so I picked the spelling version. Which means that I now have a "signature" in my passport that looks like a firstgrader's. I'm waiting for the time some overeager US immigration officer points out that that is not the way I actually sign and puts me away. :p

Well, I figured out that my passport has this section at the bottom of the plastic bit where they spell the name in upper case. And as there is no upper case "ß", they of course spelt it "ss". Same with the "ä", for some reason. So whenever someone doubts my spelling, I point to that section and point out that this is the international spelling, as opposed to the German on on top.

And here, I hardly ever needed my passport as ID, anyway. Most officials here just ask for a letter with your address on.

Well, I figured out that my passport has this section at the bottom of the plastic bit where they spell the name in upper case. And as there is no upper case "ß", they of course spelt it "ss". Same with the "ä", for some reason. So whenever someone doubts my spelling, I point to that section and point out that this is the international spelling, as opposed to the German on on top. Aaahhhh, of course! *slaps head*

And here, I hardly ever needed my passport as ID, anyway. Most officials here just ask for a letter with your address on.Hehehe, for some reason that always cracks me up. Seems so... forgeable. But than again, I guess it isn't really. Rather ingenious, actually.

Uh... If you spend about half a second thinking about how come there's a provision for the woman taking the man's name and none (except the usual legal name-changing process) for the man taking hers, you might see the light and The Nazz' point.


The only light i see here is a policy weighed against male options to alter his name with the same rights a female has. Obviously the plantiff agrees with me and i suspect he will win his case. This entire arguement is based on the government making a seperate set of unequal rules for females and males. This is for the most part illegal. This is why for example in New York State women are allowed to go topless in public in the same places males are allowed to. What are you seeing?

The only light i see here is a policy weighed against male options to alter his name with the same rights a female has. What are you seeing?
Well, yes, of course it's weighed against male options to alter their name with the same rights the female has! That's why I said earlier that I was appalled and can certainly see why he's suing. Just that this situation isn't like this because the law tried to fuck over the men while granting superiority to women, but because traditionally (and apparently legally still today) it is automatically assumed that no man could possibly want to take his wife's name while a wife would of course happily become Mrs. John Smith.

Here's the lead-up to the post you quoted, it covers all bases:

That's only a one-way card--if you're a woman and want to change it. If you're a man, there's a shitload of bother and expense, which is why this guy is suing. Hope he wins.

Though I like my last name, and am rather fond if it, and would not change it, if this dude wants to, I say we let him. What bother is it doing the rest of society eh?

None, but it batters down yet another bastion of unquestioned male privilege, and there's lots of people in the US (and elsewhere) who just freak when something like that happens.

Hehehe, for some reason that always cracks me up. Seems so... forgeable. But than again, I guess it isn't really. Rather ingenious, actually.

It is... I could just fish a letter out of my neighbour's bin and claim to be her. But it doesn't seem to happen a lot here :)
It's a cute, small place.

It is... I could just fish a letter out of my neighbour's bin and claim to be her. But it doesn't seem to happen a lot here :)
It's a cute, small place.OMG I am so stupid. I didn't even think of that. In fact my thought process was such that it would be way too embarrassing to repeat here. >.< :p

Well, yes, of course it's weighed against male options to alter their name with the same rights the female has! That's why I said earlier that I was appalled and can certainly see why he's suing. Just that this situation isn't like this because the law tried to fuck over the men while granting superiority to women, but because traditionally (and apparently legally still today) it is automatically assumed that no man could possibly want to take his wife's name while a wife would of course happily become Mrs. John Smith.

Here's the lead-up to the post you quoted, it covers all bases:

Fair enough, however the irony of NOT having male privileges as an example of male privilege is worth noting and rather silly.

Fair enough, however the irony of NOT having male privileges as an example of male privilege is worth noting and rather silly.

More as a result than as an example, but yes, it absolutely is.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,243605,00.html



I applaud this lawsuit. As I said in an earlier thread, either one should have the option to take the last name of their husband/wife.

Finally! Jesus Christ, this actually makes me want to say Jesus Christ as a swear! I tell ya, I'd be taking my wife's last name in a heart beat. I'm sick of Carpenter. So seriously sick of it.

Finally! Jesus Christ, this actually makes me want to say Jesus Christ as a swear! I tell ya, I'd be taking my wife's last name in a heart beat. I'm sick of Carpenter. So seriously sick of it.

And give up the chance to be a Carpenter carpenter? :(

And give up the chance to be a Carpenter carpenter? :(

I'd kill you for the joke but I'll spare you because you don't know how many times I've heard it.

Problem is, what should I choose for my new last name? If I was going to change my name, now would be the time since I only have a driver's license and one bank, and nothing else, apart from my health insurance with my family, of course. It would be a lot easier to do so now anyway. So...what to choose?

I'd kill you for the joke but I'll spare you because you don't know how many times I've heard it.

Problem is, what should I choose for my new last name? If I was going to change my name, now would be the time since I only have a driver's license and one bank, and nothing else, apart from my health insurance with my family, of course. It would be a lot easier to do so now anyway. So...what to choose?

Welder.

Welder.

Yeah...no.

Getting back on topic, I have to wonder what other countries have a problem with the man taking his wife's last name. I also wonder what the procedure is for homosexual weddings, so...what is it?

Yeah...no.

Getting back on topic, I have to wonder what other countries have a problem with the man taking his wife's last name. I also wonder what the procedure is for homosexual weddings, so...what is it?

Asshole. Then you can be all "That's Mr. Asshole to you."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,243605,00.html



I applaud this lawsuit. As I said in an earlier thread, either one should have the option to take the last name of their husband/wife.
Isn't it depressing that, in this day and age, somebody has to file a lawsuit over this kind of thing? Cripes, we have a long way to go...

Which always makes me think of Al Bundy.
Which makes me think of Kelly Bundy.
And now I have to go take a cold shower. Thank you very much Pantless!

traditionally (and apparently legally still today) it is automatically assumed that no man could possibly want to take his wife's name while a wife would of course happily become Mrs. John Smith.
I think it's a throwback to the traditional assumption that upon marriage a woman becomes the man's property - hence her taking his name.
and hence, the ire by feminists over doing so.

And before anyone goes on about how women are equal now, you need to do a bit of research first.

It's quite frightening how backward institutions are or have been towards equality within marriage.

eg:
Until relatively recently (within the last 15-20yrs), in NZ husbands were able to set up a seperate bank account but wives were not. Wives had to get their husband's signature, to set up an account. Evn then it was basically a joint account either party could access.
Likewise with mortgages and loans. A husband could take one out by himself but a wife had to get her husband's permission before the bank would act.

My mother paid the mortgage on my parents home. Around 1990, when interest rates were ridicuously high (like 15-20%) she upped her repayments to cut it down as much as possible.
Several months of doing this, she hadn't received any bank statements. She went in and found out that Dad's alcoholism had driven him to drawing down on the mortgage (and then hiding the bank statements from her). After months of paying every cent she had into the mortgage, she owed thousands of $$ more than she did to start with.
According to bank regs at that time they were perfectly happy for Dad, as the husband, to draw down on a mortgage in his wife's name without her knowledge or consent. Yet at the same time they wouldn't even allow Mum to set up her own savings account.

This was less than 20 years ago.

The only light i see here is a policy weighed against male options to alter his name with the same rights a female has. Obviously the plantiff agrees with me and i suspect he will win his case. This entire arguement is based on the government making a seperate set of unequal rules for females and males. This is for the most part illegal. This is why for example in New York State women are allowed to go topless in public in the same places males are allowed to. What are you seeing?
I think this is a great example of PHMT: Patriarchy Hurts Men, Too.

Here in Québec, we have a rather draconian equality. Men are not allowed to take their wife's last name, but women are not allowed to take their husband's name either.

I assume that the same principle applies for same-sex marriages. Each spouse keeps his or her name at birth.

Furthermore, the child's last name can be anything you want. Many couples now use the woman's last name, or a hyphenated version that combines both last names. With our large immigrant population, there can be be some pretty odd sounding combinations.

Here in Québec, we have a rather draconian equality. Men are not allowed to take their wife's last name, but women are not allowed to take their husband's name either.

I assume that the same principle applies for same-sex marriages. Each spouse keeps his or her name at birth.

Furthermore, the child's last name can be anything you want. Many couples now use the woman's last name, or a hyphenated version that combines both last names. With our large immigrant population, there can be be some pretty odd sounding combinations.
Wow. That's interesting. Was it traditionally like that or are those recent laws? I'm pretty sure it's not like that in France.

I think (but might be totally wrong) that in Spain (and Latin America?) kids also get both their parents' surnames. Which would mean the spouses keep their own names, too, right?

Hmm, this is actually interesting. *makes note to look up naming traditions somewhere*

Wow. That's interesting. Was it traditionally like that or are those recent laws? I'm pretty sure it's not like that in France.

I think (but might be totally wrong) that in Spain (and Latin America?) kids also get both their parents' surnames. Which would mean the spouses keep their own names, too, right?

Hmm, this is actually interesting. *makes note to look up naming traditions somewhere*


It is a relatively new law. About 20 years old, if I remember correctly.

I am not positive about most of Latin America, but in Chile, everyone has two surnames, one from each parent. So if Jose Ramirez Barrios Mejia gets married to Maria Isabel Ruiz Muñoz, their kids would be Something Something Barrios Ruiz. A woman has the option of taking her husband's last name, but may retain her maiden name if she wishes. This has been the law since 1970 at least.

REAL ULTIMATE POWER!
Beat me to it.

Those kids might flip out and kill people.

Well, I figured out that my passport has this section at the bottom of the plastic bit where they spell the name in upper case. And as there is no upper case "ß", they of course spelt it "ss". Same with the "ä", for some reason. So whenever someone doubts my spelling, I point to that section and point out that this is the international spelling, as opposed to the German on on top.

And here, I hardly ever needed my passport as ID, anyway. Most officials here just ask for a letter with your address on.

Surely the upper case of ä is just Ä?

Asshole. Then you can be all "That's Mr. Asshole to you."

And yet I have to be the one with the first Spaceballs reference of the thread. Sheesh, you people are slacking.

Anywho, this is either a case of enforcing the whole "the man keeps his last name, no questions asked" mentality, a case of trying to extort more money out of potentially weird people, or perhaps just the legal system blowing a gasket because it's trying to do something it doesn't know how to do. Granted, I wouldn't say that a man taking his wife's last name is all that common (last I checked, eight out of 10 American marriages went the other way, with the woman taking the husband's name, just as mine did) but there's no reason to disallow it except for two reasons - pure, unadulterated patriarchy or a system that requires everyone to do the same thing for simplicity. I can tell how much the law cares about the latter.

Wow. When my fiance and I were discussing our names, I think we both just assumed that it would be as easy for him to change his name as for me to change mine. But, I'm guessing GA isn't exactly progressive on this issue, so it probably would have been a real pain in the ass if we'd chosen to have him change.

Good for these two. When the law is bullshit, someone's gotta challenge the law.

Yeah...no.

Getting back on topic, I have to wonder what other countries have a problem with the man taking his wife's last name. I also wonder what the procedure is for homosexual weddings, so...what is it?

I'm not familiar with any law pertaining to same-sex marriage, even where it is allowed. I've heard of all sorts of things with homosexual couples who decide to get married though - whether they can do it legally or not. They might keep their own names, both take one partner's name, come up with some sort of combination surname, or choose an entirely different name.

Isn't it depressing that, in this day and age, somebody has to file a lawsuit over this kind of thing? Cripes, we have a long way to go...

So very true.

I'm not familiar with any law pertaining to same-sex marriage, even where it is allowed. I've heard of all sorts of things with homosexual couples who decide to get married though - whether they can do it legally or not. They might keep their own names, both take one partner's name, come up with some sort of combination surname, or choose an entirely different name.
A gay couple I'm friends with got married a couple years back, and it was amazing to watch how their name-choosing process impacted our entire circle of friends.

It turns out that most of the people in that circle had never actually thought about marriage and naming conventions. They had all mostly just accepted the norm of woman-takes-man's-name. (And this is a circle of people who are liberal enough to have been attending a gay wedding ceremony!) When our gay friends brought up the subject of choosing married names for themselves, it suddenly got a lot of people thinking about these norms for married names. Without biological sex differences to tell people who is "supposed" to give up their name, suddenly the topic actually could be about the INDIVIDUALS and their particular relationship and situation.

I have nothing against this.

This is definitely a great lawsuit. Of course, my fiance has no interest in taking my last name, thankfully. As much as I appreciate my name, I'd rather become a McCullough than have him become a Howard. And with the way his family does names, a hyphenation would just cause a mess of trouble.