NationStates Jolt Archive

strange things are afoot at the circle k


US forces storm Iranian consulate (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6251167.stm)

US forces have stormed an Iranian consulate in the northern Iraqi town of Irbil and seized five members of staff.

The troops raided the building at about 0300, taking away computers and papers, according to Kurdish media and senior local officials.

The US military had no immediate comment on the raid, which comes amid high tension between Iran and the US.

The Bush administration accuses Iran of helping fuel violence in Iraq, as well as trying to develop nuclear weapons.

Iran strenuously denies both charges, countering that US military involvement in the Middle East endangers the whole region.

A local TV station said Kurdish security forces had taken over the building after the Americans had left.

Irbil lies in Iraq's Kurdish-controlled north, about 350 kilometres (220 miles) from the capital Baghdad.

Reports say the Iranian consulate there was set up last year under an agreement with the Kurdish regional government to facilitate cross-border visits.

Iranian media said the country's embassy in Baghdad had sent a letter of protest about the raid to the Iraqi foreign ministry.

In December, US troops detained a number of Iranians in Iraq, including two with diplomatic immunity who were later released.

Its highly likely that Iran is supplying insurgents and the US military had to do something but I'm not sure if this is it.

source?

and to be honest this is the usual crap America probably got some sketchy intelligence that was fairly random and decided to attack because its Iran and lets be honest nobody will really care about this

In 10 years all will be revealed so if anyone wants to post a thread in 10 years feel free

Looks to me like the USA is trying to pick its next fight already...

Is attacking a consulate on another nation's soil and act of war?

Iran will bend over and take it however, despite some fiery rhetoric.

Looks to me like the USA is trying to pick its next fight already...

No kidding! fucking war mongers!

source?

the beeb link is in my post

Is attacking a consulate on another nation's soil and act of war?

it sorta seems like it might be

it sorta seems like it might be

I tend to agree. But I imagine that there are all sorts of ifs, ands or buts, given that a consulate's soveriegnty is kind of a diplomatic fiction. (For example it can be revoked by the host nation &c.).

Looks to me like the USA is trying to pick its next fight already...

Well, we've been doing that for the past 5 years...

Well, we've been doing that for the past 5 years...

You've been preparing for the for the past 5 years, lots of rethoric involved and all that.
But holding foreign nationals with diplomatic immunity and storming consulates can easily be contrued to be acts of war already.

it's ok folks, the official line (http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/01/11/iraq.main/) is out now - it's not a consulate, but rather a "building of diplomatic representation", and it doesn't matter anyways because there weren't any shots fired.

is this even supposed to make any sense?

Is attacking a consulate on another nation's soil and act of war?

Iran will bend over and take it however, despite some fiery rhetoric.

Only if it is really a consulate.

Apparently, there is some question as to whether it has the "official" status given by the "official" Iraqi government.

You've been preparing for the for the past 5 years, lots of rethoric involved and all that.
But holding foreign nationals with diplomatic immunity and storming consulates can easily be contrued to be acts of war already.

IT isn't like Iran is in much of a position to bitch about it since they did worse to our embassy in Iran. We basically can do this to them and they can't say a thing.

One wonders about Iran appreciating the irony of having a diplomatic compound stormed by armed men and having the staff taken prisoner.

IT isn't like Iran is in much of a position to bitch about it since they did worse to our embassy in Iran. We basically can do this to them and they can't say a thing.

One wonders about Iran appreciating the irony of having a diplomatic compound stormed by armed men and having the staff taken prisoner.

two wrongs don't make a right and to be fair it wasn’t the Iranian government who attacked the American embassy (though they where forced to go along with it)

it's ok folks, the official line (http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/01/11/iraq.main/) is out now - it's not a consulate, but rather a "building of diplomatic representation", and it doesn't matter anyways because their weren't any shots fired.

is this even supposed to make any sense?

What it means is that Iran's official take on the whole incident:

Abbas Hosseini, Iran's consul-general in Irbil, told the Baztab Web site that "U.S. forces attacked Iran's consulate in Irbil and kidnapped four Iranian diplomats."
is not the truth of the matter, and likely a calculated lie designed to make America look bad. Diplomatic status or not, so long as the officials surrendered peacefully, then there's no international incident and no unnecessary use of violence, just a peaceful internal security incident.

two wrongs don't make a right and to be fair it wasn’t the Iranian government who attacked the American embassy (though they where forced to go along with it)

You will note that I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying it's ironic. I guess that's lost on you, eh?

And all the little neocons reached for their lotion....

Can you hear the fapping? Can you? fap fap fap fap fap fap fap

And all the little neocons reached for their lotion....

Can you hear the fapping? Can you? fap fap fap fap fap fap fap

Yes, I can hear you fapping because Bush is doing it again...

Wow, another sleight-of-hand act of war by the US military. Thank you very f****** much, Il Douche.

We really need to start talking with Iran, the way things are going we could end up with another war.

Yes, I can hear you fapping because Bush is doing it again...

Hold still--I'll see if I can squeeze one off in your eye.

Hold still--I'll see if I can squeeze one off in your eye.

No, you do that all the time. Do something different.

Facial shots. This is kind of turning me on.

sounds like an act of war to me. so how many countries is the us at war with (or in) now? iraq, afganistan, iran, somalia, and probably some more of those secret wars in south america with the cartels. fun in games with the worlds 'peacekeeper'.

Facial shots. This is kind of turning me on.

I have a film of me, The Nazz, and a few midgets...

One wonders about Iran appreciating the irony of having a diplomatic compound stormed by armed men and having the staff taken prisoner.
Not really, because the Persian (I hate the word Iranian, so does anyone from Iran that I've talked to) Embassy Siege was actually commited by Iraq.

Is attacking a consulate on another nation's soil and act of war? Yup.

It's dangerous. An Iranian consulate(like any consulate) is sovereign territory. Technically, U.S. Forces storming it would be an invasion. :/

It's dangerous. An Iranian consulate(like any consulate) is sovereign territory. Technically, U.S. Forces storming it would be an invasion. :/
Absolutely. I have no idea at all what the US troops were thinking, or even if they were thinking before this.

Is attacking a consulate on another nation's soil and act of war?

Iran will bend over and take it however, despite some fiery rhetoric.

They'd damn well better.

They'd damn well better.
I don't think that the US is in any position whatsoever to launch a war on a country with a proper army and reserve force at this point - but Iran is in no position to start any kind of military action with Israel getting increasingly encheesed-off with them over the whole nuclear thing, and I'm pretty sure that Israel's just looking for an excuse to tear Iran to shreds, sadly.

I don't think that the US is in any position whatsoever to launch a war on a country with a proper army and reserve force at this point - but Iran is in no position to start any kind of military action with Israel getting increasingly encheesed-off with them over the whole nuclear thing, and I'm pretty sure that Israel's just looking for an excuse to tear Iran to shreds, sadly.

Dude, nothing's going to happen. Congress won't OK a declaration of war on Iran. The prez can't declare war unilaterally. Iran might raise a diplomatic stink, but is in no position to do anything more.

I don't think that the US is in any position whatsoever to launch a war on a country with a proper army and reserve force at this point

I beg to differ. We seem to excel at destroying conventional armies in a couple of weeks, mostly from the air, and we haven't lost that capability.

We just can't occupy someone afterwards, or fight a widespread insurgency.

Dude, nothing's going to happen. Congress won't OK a declaration of war on Iran. The prez can't declare war unilaterally. Iran might raise a diplomatic stink, but is in no position to do anything more.
Yes, I know, that was my point. Neither the US or Iran can do a bloody thing about it.

I beg to differ. We seem to excel at destroying conventional armies in a couple of weeks, mostly from the air, and we haven't lost that capability.

We just can't occupy someone afterwards, or fight a widespread insurgency.
Quite who would be fighting Iran?

"Let's pull out a few thousand troops out of a magic hat to do this / try and get the National Guard and Air Force Reserves to fight a proper army... oh yes..."

Yes, I know, that was my point. Neither the US or Iran can do a bloody thing about it.

The US can, but it won't. Well, politically we probably can't. The voters won't go for it right now.

Dude, nothing's going to happen. Congress won't OK a declaration of war on Iran. The prez can't declare war unilaterally. Iran might raise a diplomatic stink, but is in no position to do anything more.

Congress hasn't declared war since World War II, and you can see for yourself how well that has gone.

One wonders about Iran appreciating the irony of having a diplomatic compound stormed by armed men and having the staff taken prisoner.

Not that happened before reagan, and therefore did not happen.

Oceania has always been at war with eastasia.

I guess I'll elaborate a little bit on my earlier post.

The U.S. should increase diplomacy with Iran. Firstly, it could help avoid a war that would cost thousands of American lives, and trillions of dollars. Using diplomacy more often will help to improve our world image, right now we have a reputation for war-mongering, talking with Iran would help to correct this image and would help us get in touch with our alienated allies. If the Iranian government refuses to allow U.N weapons inspectors and does not comply with international will despite given many chances to cooperate and strike a deal, well then they'll be seen as unreasonable, which would gain us more allies if a war were to ever come about.

Really its a win-win situation, if our diplomatic talks succeed, Iran will stop its nuclear program and allow it to be inspected, if they fail, Iran is seen as unreasonable and belligerent internationally.

Is attacking a consulate on another nation's soil and act of war?

Iran will bend over and take it however, despite some fiery rhetoric.

Here's the appropriate Treaty Law:


Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, 1963
Article 31
Inviolability of the consular premises

1.Consular premises shall be inviolable to the extent provided in this article.

2.The authorities of the receiving State shall not enter that part of the consular premises which is used exclusively for the purpose of the work of the consular post except with the consent of the head of the consular post or of his designee or of the head of the diplomatic mission of the sending State. The consent of the head of the consular post may, however, be assumed in case of fire or other disaster requiring prompt protective action.

3.Subject to the provisions of paragraph 2 of this article, the receiving State is under a special duty to take all appropriate steps to protect the consular premises against any intrusion or damage and to prevent any disturbance of the peace of the consular post or impairment of its dignity.

4.The consular premises, their furnishings, the property of the consular post and its means of transport shall be immune from any form of requisition for purposes of national defence or public utility.
If expropriation is necessary for such purposes, all possible steps shall be taken to avoid impeding the performance of consular functions, and prompt, adequate and effective compensation shall be paid to the sending State.
http://untreaty.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/conventions/9_2_1963.pdf.

I beg to differ. We seem to excel at destroying conventional armies in a couple of weeks, mostly from the air, and we haven't lost that capability.

We just can't occupy someone afterwards, or fight a widespread insurgency.

Excellent. I see you're admitting we can't handle Iraq. Good.

I beg to differ. We seem to excel at destroying conventional armies in a couple of weeks, mostly from the air, and we haven't lost that capability.

We just can't occupy someone afterwards, or fight a widespread insurgency.

You mean when it comes to staring them in the eye, as oppossed to chucking money and hardware at them, you lack the testicular forititude? I suppose thats bound to happen after forking out unnessecary pointless death for a few decades. Things atrophy.

No big deal. We in the US can always call it payback for when they stormed our embassy.

Vic

No big deal. We in the US can always call it payback for when they stormed our embassy.

Vic

Who's Vic?

You mean when it comes to staring them in the eye, as opposed to chucking money and hardware at them, you lack the testicular fortitude? I suppose that's bound to happen after forking out unnecessary pointless death for a few decades. Things atrophy.
Does anyone find it ironic that he's comparing fighting an insurgency to "staring them in the eye".

In my opinion, it would be best for everyone involved if we withheld judgement until more information is made available.

Its highly likely that Iran is supplying insurgents and the US military had to do something but I'm not sure if this is it.What insurgency? The consulate was in northern Iraq... it's fairly peaceful up there as I recall. Nor do I think the kurds are all to keen on the Iranians, much the same way that they aren't too friendly with the Turkish and the Iraqis.

IT isn't like Iran is in much of a position to bitch about it since they did worse to our embassy in Iran. We basically can do this to them and they can't say a thing.

They aren’t in a position to do anything about it because they don’t want to be the next Iraq. Has nothing to do with the origins of Iran-Contra.

No big deal. We in the US can always call it payback for when they stormed our embassy.

yeah, i've heard that holding decades long grudges and using events of the previous century to excuse actions now always works out wonderfully for everybody.

The prez can't declare war unilaterally.This one might try it, using the AUMF as a basis. I can see him at least trying the argument and daring Congress to stop him. If this plays out, I could see enough Republicans crossing the aisle to impeach the fucker.