NationStates Jolt Archive

I found this great pamphlet online and i believe it fits in with NationStates nicely.
But it is deep reading and i hope it gets some debate going because i IMHO i
see it as one of the greatest pieces of political work ever written.I'll warn you before you begin to read it that you can't breeze right throught it.
Here is the link:
http://www.lexrex.com/informed/otherdocuments/thelaw/main.htm

Whereas, I see it as a pile of baseless suppositions relying heavily on religious belief.

'One of the greatest pieces of political work ever written' says socialists hate freedom, ignore facts, hate God and hell, they even hate the entire human race?

Hoo boy.

This particular disquisition is soundly based upon impeccable moral premises. In particular, I enjoyed the following irrefragable quote.

Life, faculties, production--in other words, individuality, liberty, property -- this is man. And in spite of the cunning of artful political leaders, these three gifts from God precede all human legislation, and are superior to it.

this is so wrong it makes pregnant furry porn look casual


...almost

I congratulate the OP's idea of debating a text. So many debates here are punted off by some farcical story on msnbc or something, and it surely sets a tone of mockery and triviality which recurs throughout the threads.

I was troubled by this passage. The second para seems to contradict the bolded word in the first:

Property and Plunder

Man can live and satisfy his wants only by ceaseless labor; by the ceaseless application of his faculties to natural resources. This process is the origin of property.

But it is also true that a man may live and satisfy his wants by seizing and consuming the products of the labor of others. This process is the origin of plunder.

I also thought the first paragraph was wrong, and the idea of natural resources being free for plunder quite debunked, but that's not the point. I went and looked at the French version La Loi (http://bastiat.org/fr/la_loi.html)

L'homme ne peut vivre et jouir que par une assimilation, une appropriation perpétuelle, c'est-à-dire par une perpétuelle application de ses facultés sur les choses, ou par le travail. De là la Propriété.

I don't speak French, btw. I looked hard at it anyway and tried to figure it out, and I babelfished it. I came to the conclusion that the translation left out an important distinction, that of constant appropriation. Perhaps someone with French can tell me if that's right?

In any case, mr Bastiat is a rather lyrical writer, given to illustrative contradictions and emotive terms, and doesn't seem to translate well. I think an author writing native English in the modern vernacular (ie not me!) would be a better choice of a text to debate.

I encourage the OP to try again some time.

Another famous text by Bastiat, a bit shorter and riotously funny, makes a good point and shows that this guy is NOT a total fruitcake: Petition of the Candle-Stick Makers (http://bastiat.org/en/petition.html)

'One of the greatest pieces of political work ever written' says socialists hate freedom, ignore facts, hate God and hell, they even hate the entire human race?

Hoo boy.
Worth a yuk or two.
You know, in one of those pathetic, infantile, overcompensatory fashions, kinda.
Or at least, the Cliff's Notes imply as much.

Its like i thought .....this document still today after 156 years provokes the same kind of responses it did when first written.....that validates to me that yes it is one of the greatest pieces of political works ever concieved.

Its like i thought .....this document still today after 156 years provokes the same kind of responses it did when first written.....that validates to me that yes it is one of the greatest pieces of political works ever concieved.

How does educated people disagreeing with it over a long period of time mean that it is one of the greatest political works ever concieved?:confused:

Its like i thought .....this document still today after 156 years provokes the same kind of responses it did when first written.....that validates to me that yes it is one of the greatest pieces of political works ever concieved.

Err... could you please explain how laughter, trolling, and questioning the translation validate this as a great political work?

Too many assumptions. Once you pull one string, the whole knot unravels.

Err... could you please explain how laughter, trolling, and questioning the translation validate this as a great political work?

Why didn't you know that to people who believe this crap the more strife and disagreements it causes the more valid it must be....yeah its total bs.

I also thought the first paragraph was wrong, and the idea of natural resources being free for plunder quite debunked, but that's not the point. I went and looked at the French version La Loi (http://bastiat.org/fr/la_loi.html)

I don't speak French, btw. I looked hard at it anyway and tried to figure it out, and I babelfished it. I came to the conclusion that the translation left out an important distinction, that of constant appropriation. Perhaps someone with French can tell me if that's right?

L'homme ne peut vivre et jouir que par une assimilation, une appropriation perpétuelle, c'est-à-dire par une perpétuelle application de ses facultés sur les choses, ou par le travail. De là la Propriété.

A rough translation: Man cannot live and enjoy life except through assimilation, a constant appropriation, that is to say, a perpetual use of his [power over things], or though work. [Hence/From this comes] property

EDIT: by 'power over things' read 'owned assets' or 'property'.