NationStates Jolt Archive

Yes, I have heard some people say that Saddam NEVER gassed anyone (much like "Hitler never ordered the killing of Jews"), and that the Kurds were gassed by the Iranians.

Now we have an interesting tape, where Saddam and his relative openly discuss doing it.

http://in.today.reuters.com/News/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2007-01-08T181841Z_01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_India-282679-1.xml

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Saddam Hussein and his cousin "Chemical Ali" discussed how chemical weapons would exterminate thousands before unleashing them on Kurds in 1988, according to tapes played on Monday in a trial of former Iraqi officials.

"I will strike them with chemical weapons and kill them all and damn anyone who is going to say anything," a voice identified by prosecutors as "Chemical Ali" Hassan al-Majeed is heard saying.

"Yes it's effective, especially on those who don't wear a mask immediately, as we understand," a voice identified as Saddam is heard saying on another tape.

"Sir, does it exterminate thousands?" a voice asks back.

"Yes, it exterminates thousands and forces them not to eat or drink and they will have to evacuate their homes without taking anything with them, until we can finally purge them," the voice identified as Saddam answers.

Considering that the UN's own investigation considers the entire atrocity to have been committed by the Iraqi military and ordered by Saddam, this interesting little tidbit gives a very clear motive, and makes it very clear that genocide was the sole intent.

I know Saddam gassed the kurds and killed a bunch of rebellious Shi'ites. So what? In the US civil war Atlanta was burned leaving the rebels homeless and starving. The soldiers under Sherman were instructed to take property and food from Southern homes in order to deny their use to the rebels. I'm sure that resulted in a few deaths. When faced with a rebellion you punish the rebels. Saddam did nothing wrong there.

*Waits for inevitable "who cares about genocide?" remarks*

Edit: Wow, record time! :)

Too bad he'll never be convicted for it *sigh*


Also, I wonder who claimed that Saddam never gassed people...

*Waits for inevitable "who cares about genocide?" remarks*

Edit: Wow, record time! :)

It's not genocide. It's not on the scale of Darfur or the holocaust. It was punishing rebel groups for trying to overthrow the government.

It's not genocide. It's not on the scale of Darfur or the holocaust. It was punishing rebel groups for trying to overthrow the government.

Sure it was.

Too bad he'll never be convicted for it *sigh*


Also, I wonder who claimed that Saddam never gassed people...

Saddam's lawyers, for one. I'm sure that a lot of Sunnis in Iraq also believe that Saddam had nothing to do with it.

*Waits for inevitable "who cares about genocide?" remarks*

*remarks in case there is any argument here*

to put it simply Kurds don't live happy lives anywhere (though trying to overthrow Saddam thinking the US would for some reason allow Kurdistan was very stupid)

Saddam's lawyers, for one. I'm sure that a lot of Sunnis in Iraq also believe that Saddam had nothing to do with it.

Noooo! The people paid to try to establish doubt claim it? Quelle suprise! :eek:

So, apart from the lawyers, have you heard anyone say it?

Noooo! The people paid to try to establish doubt claim it? Quelle suprise! :eek:

So, apart from the lawyers, have you heard anyone say it?

I've heard quite a few people claim it when the subject of invading Iraq comes up - the claim is often made that Saddam never gassed anyone and didn't have any gas - that Iran was the one who gassed the Kurds and we invaded the wrong country.

You know, all dictators have body doubles.

Maybe... maybe it was one of Saddam's body doubles who made the tape.

I think that it's more like Saddam didn't have WMD at the time of the current invasion, both countries used chemical weapons during that war and possibly on that same incident, and, yup, if there's a "right" country to invade, Iraq wasn't it.

Yes, I have heard some people say that Saddam NEVER gassed anyone (much like "Hitler never ordered the killing of Jews"), and that the Kurds were gassed by the Iranians.

Now we have an interesting tape, where Saddam and his relative openly discuss doing it.

http://in.today.reuters.com/News/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2007-01-08T181841Z_01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_India-282679-1.xml



Considering that the UN's own investigation considers the entire atrocity to have been committed by the Iraqi military and ordered by Saddam, this interesting little tidbit gives a very clear motive, and makes it very clear that genocide was the sole intent.

And why he was hanged. Thanks Eve :)

You know, all dictators have body doubles.

Maybe... maybe it was one of Saddam's body doubles who made the tape.

[semi-useless information]One of Uday's body doubles is living in Ireland. He was of the opinion that Saddam's shouldn't have been hung. Though I never got around to reading that article, so I don't know why. [/semi-useless information

And why he was hanged. Thanks Eve :)

I thought they hadn't tried him for genocide? Was this the one he was executed for?

[semi-useless information]One of Uday's body doubles is living in Ireland. He was of the opinion that Saddam's shouldn't have been hung. Though I never got around to reading that article, so I don't know why. [/semi-useless information]

It could be that Uday's body double isn't a body double and that in fact it's Uday and he didn't wanna see daddy get hung. :D

I thought they hadn't tried him for genocide? Was this the one he was executed for?

No, they tried him for the signing of 148 death warrants in 1982, following a botch assassination attack.

I thought they hadn't tried him for genocide? Was this the one he was executed for?

No, they tried him for the execution of one-hundred and something shiites. Too bad he was executed so quickly. Now he'll never get tried for the use of chemical weapons, where he got them, how he got them, etc. which could have been potentially embarrassing for the coalition of the willing.

No, they tried him for the execution of one-hundred and something shiites. Too bad he was executed so quickly. Now he'll never get tried for the use of chemical weapons, where he got them, how he got them, etc. which could have been potentially embarrassing for the coalition of the willing.
Of course it would have. Why else would he have been hung so quickly when there was so much more he could have been charged and tried for?

Of course, they probably wanted to hang him and be done with it, lest they have another Slobodan Milošević like death (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Slobodan_Milo%C5%A1evi%C4%87)... (you know, he dies before the trial ends... so the victims can see their revenge come to light, err, I mean, justice get carried out.)

that is indeed very interesting, eve.

there was a thread on this very forum by stephistan (and perhaps an earlier one that i missed by her husband zeppistan) discussing how at least one of the gas attacks on the kurds was most probably done by iran rather than hussein.

i wonder how this fits into that analysis.

And why he was hanged. Thanks Eve :)

Unfortunately not.

I thought they hadn't tried him for genocide? Was this the one he was executed for?

No, he was executed for the murder of 167... I think Sunnis, but maybe it was Shi'ites. And maybe it was 167, lol, something like that though. His trial for the gassing of the kurds was still ongoing. That's only technically though. In a more general sense I think that you could say that he was being executed for all of his crimes. If his trial was in fact "rushed through" as some complain it was, it was because he had done so much that everyone knew he deserved it.

EDIT: Woops, I responded to this one a bit slow, and looks like it was 148 Shi'ites.

*snip* if there's a "right" country to invade, Iraq wasn't it.

Yeah. Don't usually post hump, but that's it in a nutshell. ;)

I'm sorry, but I fail to see what you're trying to prove here. Of course Saddam gassed the Kurds: there's never been any real question from that, at least from those with credible standing. What's been questioned was the motives for going into Iraq: whether Saddam had WMDs, whether Iraq had ties to Al-Queda, whether Iraq was involved in 9/11, ect ect, all of which thus far have been proven to be untrue. I must say, though, that I find the doublethink of some on the right quite amusing. By doublethink I of course refer to the fact that they're quick to defend the Kurds when it comes to Saddam's gassing but never do anything to help them in the current war, or for that matter care about genocide elsewhere in the world.(Darfur, anyone?) Not saying this about you, Eve; I'm just adding it to my post since it goes along with it.

Aaaaw :(

Judge Mohammed al-Ureybi, in his first order of business, formally dropped charges of genocide and crimes against humanity against Saddam. He cut off the microphones when Majeed stood up and started to read the Koran in tribute to his former chief.

"In virtue of the confirmation of the death of defendant Saddam Hussein, the court decided to finally stop legal procedures against defendant Saddam Hussein according to the Iraqi Penal Procedures Law," Ureybi told the court.

I'm sorry, but I fail to see what you're trying to prove here. Of course Saddam gassed the Kurds: there's never been any real question from that, at least from those with credible standing. What's been questioned was the motives for going into Iraq: whether Saddam had WMDs, whether Iraq had ties to Al-Queda, whether Iraq was involved in 9/11, ect ect, all of which thus far have been proven to be untrue. I must say, though, that I find the doublethink of some on the right quite amusing. By doublethink I of course refer to the fact that they're quick to defend the Kurds when it comes to Saddam's gassing but never do anything to help them in the current war, or for that matter care about genocide elsewhere in the world.(Darfur, anyone?) Not saying this about you, Eve; I'm just adding it to my post since it goes along with it.

Kimchi Online's trying to say "See! One of you liberal Al-Qaeda humping America and Jew hating communists did say Saddam never gassed anyone, so you're all wrong and need to shut the fuck up about Iraq and everything else! And we ought to sterilize the Muslims like I've been telling you all!"