NationStates Jolt Archive

Even though it's faux news, it's still kind of scary. Doubt they would do it though.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,242243,00.html

As you said, it's Faux News...I wouldn't take it seriously at all.

:gundge: yay isreal!

They probably do, like most nations they have a huge database of different military scenarios and different possible courses of action.

Doesn't mean they intend to do it though.

:gundge: yay isreal!

Damn, a gun smilie being used in a 200-somethingth post? That's got to be a record.

I think that my personal nicknames for CNN and Fox "News" are relevant here.

CNN is "Bad". Fox is "Worse". :)

As you said, it's Faux News...I wouldn't take it seriously at all.

I agree, but I wouldn't be surprised if they went through with it. After all this isnt the first time they have done such a thing.

In other media:

* The Independent (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2132596.ece)
* Jerusalem Post (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1167467674699&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull)
* The Sunday Times (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2535310,00.html) (where the story apparently originated)

Edit: I've just checked the websites of the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/), France24 (http://www.france24.com/france24Public/en/news/world.html), CNN (http://www.cnn.com/) and Al Jazeera (http://english.aljazeera.net/). Nothing yet in any of those. If there's any serious basis to this story, it should be in at least one of those fairly soon.

They probably do, like most nations they have a huge database of different military scenarios and different possible courses of action.

Doesn't mean they intend to do it though.

No doubt.

I remember seeing a nuke strike map on Japan. The plan was to keep it from the Soviets......

I agree, but I wouldn't be surprised if they went through with it. After all this isnt the first time they have done such a thing.

Can you say "pariah nation"?

Lollercaust.

its probably a good time for them to do it.

everyone already hates them for that little "to-do" over the summer. no sense rebuilding world opinion just to wreck it again in a few months.

plus everyone is upset at the US over the iraq fiasco so that might tend to deflect some small amount of the "fallout"

The article seems likely - they're planning for it, but they might not do it.

Realize that Israel considers its very existence threatened by the Iranian nuclear program. They will do whatever it takes to ensure their own survival.

Israel won't do it, not unless they want to be wiped out of existence.

It maybe being planned but wether or not it actually occurs is a whole different ballgame. I doubt Israel will go through with it without some massive provocation from Iran.

Israel won't do it, not unless they want to be wiped out of existence.

And whose going to do it?

Realize that Israel considers its very existence threatened by the Iranian nuclear program. They will do whatever it takes to ensure their own survival.

Which means that they'll just make something that can hit the facilities without having to use nuclear weaponry. Using nukes is suicide in this world.

The Zionists are akin to Apartheid SA and Nazi Germany, their regime is illegitimate and oppresses the rightful Arab land of Palestine. Hopefully soon the racist Zionist regime will be destroyed.

It maybe being planned but wether or not it actually occurs is a whole different ballgame. I doubt Israel will go through with it without some massive provocation from Iran.

The Iraqi's building a reactor in 1981 was deemed sufficient provocation to order an attack on the complex. History repeats itself, and I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't gearing up for the strike itself as we speak.

Raid on the Reactor (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2295792449224502914), a great little movie about the 1981 strike.

Israel, please dont kill my family.

And whose going to do it?

Pakistan most likely, or they'll give nuclear weapons over to someone who will.

And whose going to do it?

Everyone with nuclear weaponry, or even any form of conventional weaponry that can reach Israel. That's the idea behind M.A.D. Ensure that the use of a nuclear weapon will result in the deaths of those who used it. That way no one will use nuclear weaponry.

Israel won't do it, not unless they want to be wiped out of existence.

huh?

Isn't this called contingency planning. Your military has nothing better to do so you set homework of coming up with plans for ever concieveable and every unconcieveable situation ever - past, present and future.

Pretty much every nation has multiple plans for dealing with just about every nation on earth.

Remember the plan released last year detailing 1930's plans in case we got into a war with Canada? That's just one example. The US and most other nations have hundreds of such plans for various nations.

The Zionists are akin to Apartheid SA and Nazi Germany, their regime is illegitimate and oppresses the rightful Arab land of Palestine. Hopefully soon the racist Zionist regime will be destroyed.

And the first full racist comment goes to Andaras Prime. Grow up.

huh?

Any nation that uses a nuclear weapon will be bombed into oblivion, quite possibly even by its own allies. Using nuclear weaponry sends the message that the nation that did so is like a rabid dog. Too dangerous to be allowed to exist.

Damn, a gun smilie being used in a 200-somethingth post? That's got to be a record.



by three posts :cool:

Everyone with nuclear weaponry, or even any form of conventional weaponry that can reach Israel. That's the idea behind M.A.D. Ensure that the use of a nuclear weapon will result in the deaths of those who used it. That way no one will use nuclear weaponry.

are you crazy?

and just which countries do you think would be bother to respond? someone in EUROPE? not a chance.

pakistan? i dont think it could hit israel. china? nooooooooo. the US? obviously not.

no, israel would take out the iranian threat and the rest of the world would sleep better at night while cursing them during the day.

The Iraqi's building a reactor in 1981 was deemed sufficient provocation to order an attack on the complex. History repeats itself, and I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't gearing up for the strike itself as we speak.

Raid on the Reactor (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2295792449224502914), a great little movie about the 1981 strike.

Yes I know. However, Iraq is also also closer to Israel than Iran is. Also, look at the airspace they have to fly over to launch such an attack. No doubt they do not care but the international repercussions will be immense and I myself would have to denounce it if they use nuclear bombs.

Pakistan most likely, or they'll give nuclear weapons over to someone who will.

I doubt Pakistan will do anything. If they are smart they wont.

And the first full racist comment goes to Andaras Prime. Grow up.

No your wrong, Israel is racist, I am merely anti-Zionist. Zionist is to Jew what Nazi is to German.

Are you kidding? Pakistan would be glad if Iran was nuked, it means one less threat to their borders.

Even though it's faux news, it's still kind of scary. Doubt they would do it though.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,242243,00.html
Faux News, huh? You know, it would be funny and clever if you were the first guy to come up with that but as with the "Worst president ever" bumber stickers I'm pretty sure I've seen it before which would make you a follower not unlike the protesting chanters. Way to go on that whole following the crowd thing, I'd say you've almost got it nailed down. Oh and keep fooling yourself into thinking you're an independent thinker.

As for the story, woop-de-doo. I'd take Israel's side in a conflict with Iran just about any day. And if it does start a nuclear war I live in the suburbs of a midwestern state. Nukes and volcanoes (I know there aren't any here) could explode left and right in Minnesota and it'd never make the national spotlight. But if someone so much as sneezes on either coast (especially a celebrity) and it get's the front page of every major newspaper in the country. If the end is going to come with nuclear war it'll be quick. Anyone who looks at the explosion would go blind and get burned really bad and anyone caught in it would die instantly. The planet would still be here and life would still go on for whoever and whatever survives.

I doubt Israel will do anything. If they are smart they wont.

Corrected.

Yes I know. However, Iraq is also also closer to Israel than Iran is. Also, look at the airspace they have to fly over to launch such an attack. No doubt they do not care but the international repercussions will be immense and I myself would have to denounce it if they use nuclear bombs.

Well, if you denounce them, then it's all over isn't it?

(Hang on. Didn't you just say you would accept the law right or wrong or something in another thread)?

Iran is never going to use nukes even if it gets them. So Israel can just fuck off and leave my 96 year old grandfather alone.

Oh that's just wonderful... Not

Everyone with nuclear weaponry, or even any form of conventional weaponry that can reach Israel. That's the idea behind M.A.D. Ensure that the use of a nuclear weapon will result in the deaths of those who used it. That way no one will use nuclear weaponry.

Depends on who is allied with whom. Israel knows that Iran does not have nuclear capabilities. USA will not launch nukes at Israel and I doubt Britain and France will either. China probably will not do so either because it will not be politicaly convienent for them to do so. Russia possibly could do so but then, they are in dire straights as it is and that could push certain people over the top. India and Pakistan are the only other regional powers that could theoreticly do something but then, I doubt they will either.

It all depends on the circumstances of the raid itself though. Without knowing the circumstances, one cannot tell what the repercussions will be.

Yes I know. However, Iraq is also also closer to Israel than Iran is. Also, look at the airspace they have to fly over to launch such an attack. No doubt they do not care but the international repercussions will be immense and I myself would have to denounce it if they use nuclear bombs.

While Iran is far, it is still within range of F-15I and F-16I aircraft without the use of tankers. Israel does have tankers and could use them to give the aircraft even further range.

No your wrong, Israel is racist, I am merely anti-Zionist. Zionist is to Jew what Nazi is to German.

And this is why analogies were removed from the SAT. Because stupid people make stupid analogies.

Faux News, huh? You know, it would be funny and clever if you were the first guy to come up with that but as with the "Worst president ever" bumber stickers I'm pretty sure I've seen it before which would make you a follower not unlike the protesting chanters. Way to go on that whole following the crowd thing, I'd say you've almost got it nailed down. Oh and keep fooling yourself into thinking you're an independent thinker.

As for the story, woop-de-doo. I'd take Israel's side in a conflict with Iran just about any day. And if it does start a nuclear war I live in the suburbs of a midwestern state. Nukes and volcanoes (I know there aren't any here) could explode left and right in Minnesota and it'd never make the national spotlight. But if someone so much as sneezes on either coast (especially a celebrity) and it get's the front page of every major newspaper in the country. If the end is going to come with nuclear war it'll be quick. Anyone who looks at the explosion would go blind and get burned really bad and anyone caught in it would die instantly. The planet would still be here and life would still go on for whoever and whatever survives.

cockroaches. You can advocate mass murder with that philosophy.

Yes I know. However, Iraq is also also closer to Israel than Iran is. Also, look at the airspace they have to fly over to launch such an attack. No doubt they do not care but the international repercussions will be immense and I myself would have to denounce it if they use nuclear bombs.

Well, for one, Israel is no stranger to pre-emptive strikes, and number two, these aren't real Nukes in the traditional sense. These aren't even tactical Nukes (the story is wrong). They're bunker-busters which are designed to penetrate deep underground and destroy well fortified facilities. If this is the only option Israel has left, then I am sure they won't hesitate to use such weapons.

Iran is never going to use nukes even if it gets them. So Israel can just fuck off and leave my 96 year old grandfather alone.

Yes, because we all know Israel wants to launch nukes purely to kill Iranian civilians for fun. Specifically your grandfather...who is a spy! Why else would he be targetted? Mwahahahah!

And this is why analogies were removed from the SAT. Because stupid people make stupid analogies.

I thought that analogies were removed from the SAT because someone with half a neuron pointed out that all analogies are bullshit.

No your wrong, Israel is racist, I am merely anti-Zionist. Zionist is to Jew what Nazi is to German.

Nazism=racism today.

Your post was most definitely racis so I will tell you again to grow up for it does nothing to further debate.

Iran is never going to use nukes even if it gets them. So Israel can just fuck off and leave my 96 year old grandfather alone.

Yep, Iran has no intention of harming Israel. That's why they give weapons like C-802 SSMs to Hezbollah.

Should Iran get a nuke, they wouldn't launch it, they'd use Hezbollah (their proxy army) to get it to Israel.

Israel won't do it, not unless they want to be wiped out of existence.

Um... by who?

Nazism=racism today.

Your post was most definitely racis so I will tell you again to grow up for it does nothing to further debate.

Ignore Andara Prime. He thinks that known anti-semite Charlie Reese is a legitimate source against Israel.

And this is why analogies were removed from the SAT. Because stupid people make stupid analogies.

Oh yes, because when outside people try to investigate racism in Israel they are kicked out of the country, all because Israel has nothing to hide, right...

Tutu anyone?

Israel is a segregationist state that believes one Jewish fingernail is worth a thousand Gentiles.

Corrected.

Now that's funny as hell.

NOT! :rolleyes:

Yep, Iran has no intention of harming Israel. That's why they give weapons like C-802 SSMs to Hezbollah.

Should Iran get a nuke, they wouldn't launch it, they'd use Hezbollah (their proxy army) to get it to Israel.

... And the nuke would then be traced to Iran, which would be destroyed. They're not complete idiots.

Um... by who?

Everyone. Israel would become the country equivalent of a rabid dog.

Yes, because we all know Israel wants to launch nukes purely to kill Iranian civilians for fun. Specifically your grandfather...who is a spy! Why else would he be targetted? Mwahahahah!

The point is not that Israel intends to kill Iranian civilians, it is that Iranian civilians will die.

Even though it's faux news, it's still kind of scary. Doubt they would do it though.I wouldn't doubt this. They've already started a couple of wars and called them "preemptive". They'd do anything to appear strong.

... And the nuke would then be traced to Iran, which would be destroyed. They're not complete idiots.

Israel doesn't have a large nuclear arsenal. Iranian leadership see using a nuke on Israel as destroying Israel at the cost of maybe 20 million Iranians. THey see it as a temporary set back from which they'd recover from while Israel would be gone.

Well, if you denounce them, then it's all over isn't it?

(Hang on. Didn't you just say you would accept the law right or wrong or something in another thread)?

Its called international law. Violating airspace without prior clearence is violating International Law. If they do not get approval to fly over Jordan and Iraqi airspace, then they are in complete violation of International Law. Unless they fly over 60,000 feet or so.

The point is not that Israel intends to kill Iranian civilians, it is that Iranian civilians will die.

Iran has its enrichment facilities in towns?

Israel doesn't have a large nuclear arsenal. Iranian leadership see using a nuke on Israel as destroying Israel at the cost of maybe 20 million Iranians. THey see it as a temporary set back from which they'd recover from while Israel would be gone.

Youre forgetting that the U.S and Europe would attack Iran as well. Hell, everyone would attack Iran.

I wouldn't doubt this. They've already started a couple of wars and called them "preemptive". They'd do anything to appear strong.

Responding to attacks isn't preemptive. It's called defensive. Go see the wizard and ask him for a brain Mr. Scarecrow.

Well, for one, Israel is no stranger to pre-emptive strikes, and number two, these aren't real Nukes in the traditional sense. These aren't even tactical Nukes (the story is wrong). They're bunker-busters which are designed to penetrate deep underground and destroy well fortified facilities. If this is the only option Israel has left, then I am sure they won't hesitate to use such weapons.

I'm sure they won't just like they will not mind the consequences of using them as they suffered them in 1981.

Youre forgetting that the U.S and Europe would attack Iran as well. Hell, everyone would attack Iran.

I doubt either side would enter into a localized nuclear war between Israel and Iran.

He thinks that known anti-semite Charlie Reese is a legitimate source against Israel.

That destroys any credibility he (AP) may have had.

The point is not that Israel intends to kill Iranian civilians, it is that Iranian civilians will die.

Ah. So you'd rather have an insane government nuke just to cause destruction then, a sane government nuke to protect itself against said government.

Everyone. Israel would become the country equivalent of a rabid dog.

MAD only really applies when both of the countries getting bombed has nuclear weapons or at least both of their allies. There are, unfortunately, few nations that would be likely to fire on Israel, knowing that it will provoke a serious reaction, whether political or military, from the US.

Iran has its enrichment facilities in towns?

The nuclear fallout (from the facilities themselves, as well as the nukes) would drift to the cities.

The point is not that Israel intends to kill Iranian civilians, it is that Iranian civilians will die.

From a bunker buster nuke? WOW!

Are you kidding? Pakistan would be glad if Iran was nuked, it means one less threat to their borders.

and when was the last time Iran/Persia was in a war of aggression? attacked by Iraq in the 1980's and before that by in the Russia in 1820's..... those Iranians sure are aggressive pity poor Pakistan...

The nuclear fallout (from the facilities themselves, as well as the nukes) would drift to the cities.

Not Israel's fault. Blame Iran for positioning the facilities where they currently are. Besides, any deaths caused in Israel's strike would be far less than the ones that would result if Iran gets a nuke.

I wouldn't doubt this. They've already started a couple of wars and called them "preemptive". They'd do anything to appear strong.

I know they launched the 6 day war pre-emptively but then again, the Arab armies were lining up to launch a surprise attack on Israel. OOPS!

What other war was pre-emptive?

From a bunker buster nuke? WOW!

Yes, if it hits a civilian area.

The nuclear fallout (from the facilities themselves, as well as the nukes) would drift to the cities.

Underground facilities will release very little radiation and the bombs they're talking about are hardly in the megaton range. I don't think the issue will be dead civilians here, I think the fact that a nation is considering using nukes in a pre-emptive strike is the really worrying thing.

and when was the last time Iran/Persia was in a war of aggression? attacked by Iraq in the 1980's and before that by in the Russia in 1820's..... those Iranians sure are aggressive pity poor Pakistan...

The Iran Iraq War actually began because of a failed assassination attempt on Saddam that was sponsored by Iran so they could be deemed as the aggressors.

Not Israel's fault. Blame Iran for positioning the facilities where they currently are.

It doesn't matter if it's Iran's fault, point is it's not the fault of the innocents that would die. Thus, Isreal shouldn't attack.

Not Israel's fault. Blame Iran for positioning the facilities where they currently are. Besides, any deaths caused in Israel's strike would be far less than the ones that would result if Iran gets a nuke.

It's called a deterrent, otherwise known as MAD. Especially when Israel has warmongering generals and politicians who think it would be better off if most Arabs in the region were wiped out.

Was anyone listening? Iran isnt stupid enough to use/ sell nukes. And yes if Iran used a nuke everyone would attack them. They attacked Iraq for maybe not really having them, do you think they would hesitate to destroy Iran for using them?

It doesn't matter if it's Iran's fault, point is it's not the fault of the innocents that would die. Thus, Isreal shouldn't attack.

And Israel shouldn't sit back and commit suicide on behalf of Iranian civilians. It isn't that I don't care about them, it's the fact Israel's government has an obligation to protect its citizens from the psycho in Iran.

Was anyone listening? Iran isnt stupid enough to use/ sell nukes. And yes if Iran used a nuke everyone would attack them. They attacked Iraq for maybe not really having them, do you think they would hesitate to destroy Iran for using them?

READ WHAT I TYPE BEFOR MAKING THE SAME POINTS THAT I REFUTED

Not Israel's fault. Blame Iran for positioning the facilities where they currently are. Besides, any deaths caused in Israel's strike would be far less than the ones that would result if Iran gets a nuke.

You make the assumption that Iran will use any nuclear capability that it gains for offensive purposes.

Yes, if it hits a civilian area.

I suggest you read up on what they are planning to do. First is using conventional bombs then the nuclear bunker busters.

And Israel shouldn't sit back and commit suicide on behalf of Iranian civilians. It isn't that I don't care about them, it's the fact Israel's government has an obligation to protect its citizens from the psycho in Iran.

And it's necessary to use nuclear weapons for this end?

It's called a deterrent, otherwise known as MAD. Especially when Israel has warmongering generals and politicians who think it would be better off if most Arabs in the region were wiped out.

Yep I'm sure Israel thinks that. That's why in the 30 years they've had nukes that they launch them on a daily basis at Arab nations.:rolleyes:

And it's necessary to use nuclear weapons for this end?

If the facilities are buried below the reach of most bunker busters, then yes.

You make the assumption that Iran will use any nuclear capability that it gains for offensive purposes.

Given Ahmedinejad's comments about wanting to wipe Israel off the map, it's a safe assumption to make.

Its called international law. Violating airspace without prior clearence is violating International Law. If they do not get approval to fly over Jordan and Iraqi airspace, then they are in complete violation of International Law. Unless they fly over 60,000 feet or so.

I'm sure they won't just like they will not mind the consequences of using them as they suffered them in 1981.

Excuse me, but what consequences of the 1981 operation?

The United Nations Security Council passed Resolution 487, calling upon Israel "to place its nuclear facilities under IAEA safeguards", and stated that Iraq was "entitled to appropriate redress for the destruction it [had] suffered". Israel has not complied with these requests.

Nothing happened, and Israel has demonstrated numerous times that they don't give two shits about international law (which is a joke to begin with). They'll do what they think they have to do to protect themselves and damn the consequences.

If the facilities are buried below the reach of most bunker busters, then yes.

I'd like a reliable source stating that you can only get those facilities with nuclear weapons.

Given Ahmedinejad's comments about wanting to wipe Israel off the map, it's a safe assumption to make.

He never said it. Seriously, so many people have provided evidence of that on this forum that your continued use of it is getting silly.

And Israel shouldn't sit back and commit suicide on behalf of Iranian civilians. It isn't that I don't care about them, it's the fact Israel's government has an obligation to protect its citizens from the psycho in Iran.

Dehumanizing your enemies, another reactionary tool I see. Iranian Pres was elected remember, so his views must be at least somewhat representative of the Iranian people. Plus it's sickening how people keep bringing up this 'wipe Israel off the map' thing, he wants to destroy the Zionist regime that has hijacked Israel, it was nothing to do with race, hell Iran isn't even Arab, but even they recognize Palestine IS Arab, and that the Zionists are racist and warmongering.

Once upon a time Egypt was the standard bearer for Arabism and the Palestinian cause in the region, but now we have a non-Arab country leading the charge against Zionist oppression in Palestine and the region. This shows that the conflict has gone beyond race, it is nothing but a racist and warmongering state that has implanted itself like a cancer in the ME, nothing to do with race, just oppression.

Given Ahmedinejad's comments about wanting to wipe Israel off the map, it's a safe assumption to make.

SO you ar willing to take his word? I doubt that you would on the rest of what he says.

He never said it. Seriously, so many people have provided evidence of that on this forum that your continued use of it is getting silly.

Show me some of the "evidence"

Given Ahmedinejad's comments about wanting to wipe Israel off the map, it's a safe assumption to make.

Is anyone actually reading my posts? Ahmedinejad is not in power so he cant do anything.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061212/wl_nm/iran_holocaust_dc

I suppose this is just a mistranslation:rolleyes:

He never said it. Seriously, so many people have provided evidence of that on this forum that your continued use of it is getting silly.

Exactly right, as in my above comments. Israel has the largest army and military tech in the region, yet is has made up an endless cycle of victimization for itself when the threat is largely created by their own fear, and the wars it creates based on this fear.

Is anyone actually reading my posts? Ahmedinejad is not in power so he cant do anything.

So who then? The Mullahs? They're even worse. They will see it as a holy mission and be so blinded by religious texts that they see destroying Israel as a ticket into heavy.

Its called international law. Violating airspace without prior clearence is violating International Law. If they do not get approval to fly over Jordan and Iraqi airspace, then they are in complete violation of International Law. Unless they fly over 60,000 feet or so.

And Isreal doesn't have orbital launch capabilty now?

In any case, what if they do get Jordan and Iraq's approval? Will you still deliver you condemnation?

Exactly right, as in my above comments. Israel has the largest army and military tech in the region, yet is has made up an endless cycle of victimization for itself when the threat is largely created by their own fear, and the wars it creates based on this fear.

Name 1 war started by Israel? Oh you can't. You just have to keep spouting shit from your mouth about how Israel starts wars.

Dehumanizing your enemies, another reactionary tool I see. Iranian Pres was elected remember, so his views must be at least somewhat representative of the Iranian people. Plus it's sickening how people keep bringing up this 'wipe Israel off the map' thing, he wants to destroy the Zionist regime that has hijacked Israel, it was nothing to do with race, hell Iran isn't even Arab, but even they recognize Palestine IS Arab, and that the Zionists are racist and warmongering.

Once upon a time Egypt was the standard bearer for Arabism and the Palestinian cause in the region, but now we have a non-Arab country leading the charge against Zionist oppression in Palestine and the region. This shows that the conflict has gone beyond race, it is nothing but a racist and warmongering state that has implanted itself like a cancer in the ME, nothing to do with race, just oppression.

He's representative of the stupid Iranians, not the intelligent ones.

Excuse me, but what consequences of the 1981 operation?



Nothing happened, and Israel has demonstrated numerous times that they don't give two shits about international law (which is a joke to begin with). They'll do what they think they have to do to protect themselves and damn the consequences.

They do not have to comply with the IAEA for they are not a member of the NPT. As to redressing the destruction of the Iraqi nuclear facility, it should go to the French because they were the one's building it.

Show me some of the "evidence"

Translation of phrase "wiped off the map"

Many news sources have presented one of Ahmadinejad's phrases in Persian as a statement that "Israel must be wiped off the map"[4][5][6], an English idiom which means to cause a place to stop existing[7].

Juan Cole, a University of Michigan Professor of Modern Middle East and South Asian History, translates the Persian phrase as:

The Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem (een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from] the page of time (bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad).[8]

According to Cole, "Ahmadinejad did not say he was going to wipe Israel off the map because no such idiom exists in Persian" and "He did say he hoped its regime, i.e., a Jewish-Zionist state occupying Jerusalem, would collapse."[1]

The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) translates the phrase similarly:

[T]his regime that is occupying Qods [Jerusalem] must be eliminated from the pages of history.[9]

On 20 February 2006, Iran’s foreign minister denied that Tehran wanted to see Israel “wiped off the map,” saying Ahmadinejad had been misunderstood. "Nobody can remove a country from the map. This is a misunderstanding in Europe of what our president mentioned," Manouchehr Mottaki told a news conference, speaking in English, after addressing the European Parliament. "How is it possible to remove a country from the map? He is talking about the regime. We do not recognise legally this regime," he said. [10][11][12]

In a June 11, 2006 analysis of the translation controversy, New York Times deputy foreign editor Ethan Bronner concluded that Ahmadinejad had in fact said that Israel was to be wiped off the map. After noting the objections of critics such as Cole and Steele, Bronner said: "But translators in Tehran who work for the president's office and the foreign ministry disagree with them. All official translations of Mr. Ahmadinejad's statement, including a description of it on his Web site (www.president.ir/eng/), refer to wiping Israel away." Bronner stated: "So did Iran's president call for Israel to be wiped off the map? It certainly seems so. Did that amount to a call for war? That remains an open question." [2]

On June 15, 2006 The Guardian columnist and foreign correspondent Jonathan Steele cites several Persian speakers and translators who state that the phrase in question is more accurately translated as "eliminated" or "wiped off" or "wiped away" from "the page of time" or "the pages of history", rather than "wiped off the map". [13]

A synopsis of Mr Ahmadinejad's speech on the Iranian Presidential website states:

He further expressed his firm belief that the new wave of confrontations generated in Palestine and the growing turmoil in the Islamic world would in no time wipe Israel away. [14]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel#Translation_of_phrase_.22wiped_off_the_map.22

Taken from Wiki but it well sourced. You'll still carry on about it but there you go.

So who then? The Mullahs? They're even worse. They will see it as a holy mission and be so blinded by religious texts that they see destroying Israel as a ticket into heavy.

Mullahs are not muslim. No seriously. They have no religion and are using Islam as a tool, and seriously they're not that stupid.

He's representative of the stupid Iranians, not the intelligent ones.

Intelligent meaning sympathetic to Israeli and US imperialist interests you mean right. I see now.

And Isreal doesn't have orbital launch capabilty now?

In any case, what if they do get Jordan and Iraq's approval? Will you still deliver you condemnation?

Depending on circumstances, yes.

Mullahs are not muslim. No seriously. They have no religion and are using Islam as a tool, and seriously they're not that stupid.

Bah. And all scots eat porridge. With salt!

Say...umm, how much damage can and I quote The Israeli weapons would each have a force equivalent to one-fifteenth of the Hiroshima bomb. do anyways?

Name 1 war started by Israel? Oh you can't. You just have to keep spouting shit from your mouth about how Israel starts wars.

Actually, the 6 day war was a pre-emptive war for the Arab Armies were lining up to attack Israel but did not attack first. Israel did indeed attack first but with grounded cause.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel#Translation_of_phrase_.22wiped_off_the_map.22

Taken from Wiki but it well sourced. You'll still carry on about it but there you go.

Check my link, it references a much more recent speech where those who were there took it as the same meaning as the english translation. It isn't a poor translation when the people there see his words when spoken in Farsi in the same light as when translated in English

They do not have to comply with the IAEA for they are not a member of the NPT. As to redressing the destruction of the Iraqi nuclear facility, it should go to the French because they were the one's building it.

Who should really pay for it is irrelevant. The UN placed the responsibility on Israel and they just decided to ignore it. This is pretty clear evidence that Israel doesn't care about "International Law", or the UN.

Intelligent meaning sympathetic to Israeli and US imperialist interests you mean right. I see now.

Intelligent meaning not insane, ultra-religious, fascist, psycho, bastards. You are no friend of the Iranian people.

Actually, the 6 day war was a pre-emptive war for the Arab Armies were lining up to attack Israel but did not attack first. Israel did indeed attack first but with grounded cause.

They also bombed Iraq in the eighties.

Say...umm, how much damage can and I quote do anyways?

Enough to do what Israel wants it to do.

Actually, the 6 day war was a pre-emptive war for the Arab Armies were lining up to attack Israel but did not attack first. Israel did indeed attack first but with grounded cause.

Even that one wasn't started by Israel as the Straights of Tiran were blockaded by Egypt.

Bah. And all scots eat porridge. With salt!

Now let me think, who actually knows more about Irans government? You, the American who has never been in Iran, or me, the Iranian?

They also bombed Iraq in the eighties.

That was a single surgical strike (justified too) not really a war

They also bombed Iraq in the eighties.

And yet, that was not a war. We are talking wars here.

Even that one wasn't started by Israel as the Straights of Tiran were blockaded by Egypt.

That is not technicly starting a war.

Enough to do what Israel wants it to do.

Has anyone read the article yet?! It's only 1/15 the power of the one at Hiroshima, and is targetted at Nuclear facilities, and they're expected to go deep underground to minimize radioactive fallout.

Geez, I was expecting actual huge destroy the world nukes...

Now let me think, who actually knows more about Irans government? You, the American who has never been in Iran, or me, the Iranian?

And are you currently living in Iran?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061212/wl_nm/iran_holocaust_dc

I suppose this is just a mistranslation:rolleyes:

Wrong again, in fact I believe I made thread about this when the news first came up, still these pro-Israel people keep making these ridiculous 'zomg, Eichmann, Hitler, holocaust denier! Arafat! jews r best' comments.
In fact the President was referring to the Zionist regime that needed to be eliminated, and not the people.

It is the Zionists who are the traitors to Israel, the ones who keep the walls up and oppress the Palestinians, it is they who must go. And their were JEWS attending that conference, those who were opponents of the murderous Zionist regime, so saying it or the President are anti-Semitic is just false.

The Zionists have done nothing for their country or the region but cause death and oppression.

Has anyone read the article yet?! It's only 1/15 the power of the one at Hiroshima, and is targetted at Nuclear facilities, and they're expected to go deep underground to minimize radioactive fallout.

Geez, I was expecting actual huge destroy the world nukes...

I've read the article and it is fascinating.

Now let me think, who actually knows more about Irans government? You, the American who has never been in Iran, or me, the Iranian?

Think all you want. It's still the no true scotsman fallacy. When they say they aren't muslim, then I will accept your version.

Have you ever been anywhere near it? no? then I am still more qualified.

Now let me think, who actually knows more about Irans government? You, the American who has never been in Iran, or me, the Iranian?

In all fairness, that does mean that you can be relied on to be at least as biased as anyone else.

That was a single surgical strike (justified too) not really a war

What would you consider unjustified (assuming it is commited by Israel)?

Think all you want. It's still the no true scotsman fallacy. When they say they aren't muslim, then I will accept your version.

You trust them? Then you are a fool.

I can't believe the level presumption and idiocy in the comments of those defending Iran. Everyone in the world knows that they are unstable, hate Israel (Hezbollah anybody?), and the rulers are fucking insane.

Furthermore, these comments about "civilians dying" in Iran because Israel is going to "carpet bomb it with nuclear ordinances... and then probably sow the fields with salt," [/exaggeration] shows that 'you' have not read the article. It specifically states the method of attacking and the use of the small nuclear weapons underground so as to contain the fallout.

No, MAD does not exist here nor will nations dogpile Israel for this. Most will condemn them (especially for using nuclear weapons, even though there won't be much of a difference than using conventional weapons in this case) and then forget about it in a few months. The only nations that would dare attack are Lebanon (Hezbollah), Syria, Iran, and the likes... basically, none that rely on Western support.

Yes, Israel is insecure withs its position in the Middle East and doesn't trust most of the arabs... but it isn't like the Arabs haven't attacked, decried them, not recognized them, etc.

Wrong again, in fact I believe I made thread about this when the news first came up, still these pro-Israel people keep making these ridiculous 'zomg, Eichmann, Hitler, holocaust denier! Arafat! jews r best' comments.
In fact the President was referring to the Zionist regime that needed to be eliminated, and not the people.

It is the Zionists who are the traitors to Israel, the ones who keep the walls up and oppress the Palestinians, it is they who must go. And their were JEWS attending that conference, those who were opponents of the murderous Zionist regime, so saying it or the President are anti-Semitic is just false.

The Zionists have done nothing for their country or the region but cause death and oppression.

Say who was it that turned the land from a hellhole to the lavish country it is now...? I'll give ya a hint, it start with a Zion and ends in ist.

It doesn't matter if they got money from Europe, America and such, it's what they did with it. The Palestinians have as much rights as the Israelis, with the added incentive of not being conscripted to the Israeli army.

Wrong again, in fact I believe I made thread about this when the news first came up, still these pro-Israel people keep making these ridiculous 'zomg, Eichmann, Hitler, holocaust denier! Arafat! jews r best' comments.
In fact the President was referring to the Zionist regime that needed to be eliminated, and not the people.

It is the Zionists who are the traitors to Israel, the ones who keep the walls up and oppress the Palestinians, it is they who must go. And their were JEWS attending that conference, those who were opponents of the murderous Zionist regime, so saying it or the President are anti-Semitic is just false.

The Zionists have done nothing for their country or the region but cause death and oppression.

You are totally clueless. You don't even know what a Zionist is. A Zionist is not an extremist. A Zionist is merely a person who believes the State of Israel has a right to exist. You are so clueless you don't even realize most Zionists support a Palestinian State too.

I shouldn't be too surprised. After all, what should I expect from any of your posts regarding Israel and Zionism? Intelligence? Nah.

Have you ever been anywhere near it? no? then I am still more qualified.

Are you currently in Iran?

Now let me think, who actually knows more about Irans government? You, the American who has never been in Iran, or me, the Iranian?

Oooohhhhh! I get it now... that is why you are the non-baised one and we are the ones lacking perspective and reason. [/SARCASM]

Say who was it that turned the land from a hellhole to the lavish country it is now...? I'll give ya a hint, it start with a Zion and ends in ist.

It doesn't matter if they got money from Europe, America and such, it's what they did with it. The Palestinians have as much rights as the Israelis, with the added incentive of not being conscripted to the Israeli army.

Too clarify this post, MuhOre is referring to the Arabs who live within Israel and hold Israeli citizenship. They even serve in the Knesset and Supreme Court. (They also have equal voting rights)

You trust them? Then you are a fool.

Nice flamey, illogic boy. They claim they are muslim. Other people who also claim to be muslim say that they are muslims. Why should I, as an outside, disinterested observer about allah, have any reason to gainsay their claim.

You saying that: 'in my opinion, they are not muslims' is meaningless to anyone who is not a muslim.

Trust has nothing to do with it.

I can't believe the level presumption and idiocy in the comments of those defending Iran. Everyone in the world knows that they are unstable, hate Israel (Hezbollah anybody?), and the rulers are fucking insane.

Furthermore, these comments about "civilians dying" in Iran because Israel is going to "carpet bomb it with nuclear ordinances... and then probably sow the fields with salt," [/exaggeration] shows that 'you' have not read the article. It specifically states the method of attacking and the use of the small nuclear weapons underground so as to contain the fallout.

No, MAD does not exist here nor will nations dogpile Israel for this. Most will condemn them (especially for using nuclear weapons, even though there won't be much of a difference than using conventional weapons in this case) and then forget about it in a few months. The only nations that would dare attack are Lebanon (Hezbollah), Syria, Iran, and the likes... basically, none that rely on Western support.

Yes, Israel is insecure withs its position in the Middle East and doesn't trust most of the arabs... but it isn't like the Arabs haven't attacked, decried them, not recognized them, etc.

The facilities themselves will provide fallout. And yes they hate Israel but they are not that stupid.

Oooohhhhh! I get it now... that is why you are the non-baised one and we are the ones lacking perspective and reason. [/SARCASM]

That was reffering to the argument about Irans government, which I know much more about than you, having had first-hand experience.

The facilities themselves will provide fallout. And yes they hate Israel but they are not that stupid.

Prove that they are not stupid.

The facilities themselves will provide fallout. And yes they hate Israel but they are not that stupid.

Of course not. They wouldn't start an open and avowed war with Israel... Instead they will just fund, aid, arm, support, and give power to Hezbollah to do it for them.

Nice flamey, illogic boy. They claim they are muslim. Other people who also claim to be muslim say that they are muslims. Why should I, as an outside, disinterested observer about allah, have any reason to gainsay their claim.

You saying that: 'in my opinion, they are not muslims' is meaningless to anyone who is not a muslim.

Trust has nothing to do with it.

They are evil lying scum and nothing they say should be trusted. However, I apologize for the wording of my post. It was not my intention to call you a fool, but to say that it would be foolish to trust them.

That was reffering to the argument about Irans government, which I know much more about than you, having had first-hand experience.

Meaning that you do not subscribe to the form of Islam that they espouse?

Prove that they are not stupid.

They havent done anything to indicate that level of extreme mental retardation.

Of course not. They wouldn't start an open and avowed war with Israel... Instead they will just fund, aid, arm, support, and give power to Hezbollah to do it for them.

And they could conveniently give Hezbollah a nuke. The IAEA isn't allowed in Iran's facilities so there wouldn't be a history to check the radiation samples against to ID them.

Say who was it that turned the land from a hellhole to the lavish country it is now...? I'll give ya a hint, it start with a Zion and ends in ist.

It doesn't matter if they got money from Europe, America and such, it's what they did with it. The Palestinians have as much rights as the Israelis, with the added incentive of not being conscripted to the Israeli army.

Actually, that's the exact garbage the Israelis fill their children with. 'After the Holocaust, the Jews needed a new home so they left Europe and came to a barren desert called Canaan, and the desert bloomed.' And if their was any ever mention of the oppressed Palestinians, it would be 'And their was people who didn't like us coming, but they just hated Jews'. Please take your ill-founded Zionist propaganda elsewhere please.

I would trust the Iranians far more than the Zionists, given track records.

They havent done anything to indicate that level of extreme mental retardation.

And that's your def of stupid? I'm glad I use a different dictionary than you do.

They havent done anything to indicate that level of extreme mental retardation.

*cough*
Using Hezbollah to launch a war over the summer.

Prove that they are not stupid.

Prove something, anything conclusively. It is incredibly hard to do, impossible really, especially when the person reviewing the 'proof' is determined not to accept it.

Of course not. They wouldn't start an open and avowed war with Israel... Instead they will just fund, aid, arm, support, and give power to Hezbollah to do it for them.

...And the nukes will be traced to them. This argument has already been made, go back and find my previous response to it.

Actually, that's the exact garbage the Israelis fill their children with. 'After the Holocaust, the Jews needed a new home so they left Europe and came to a barren desert called Canaan, and the desert bloomed.' And if their was any ever mention of the oppressed Palestinians, it would be 'And their was people who didn't like us coming, but they just hated Jews'. Please take your ill-founded Zionist propaganda elsewhere please.

I would trust the Iranians far more than the Zionists, given track records.

Yep, and I'm sure your anti-semitic friend Charlie Reese told you all of this. Go get a clue because you obviously lack one.

And that's your def of stupid? I'm glad I use a different dictionary than you do.

I said they are not that stupid. Please read what I actually write.

...And the nukes will be traced to them. This argument has already been made, go back and find my previous response to it.

How about you read IDF's response to your point saying that they wouldn't be able to trace the uranium as the IAEA has not been allowed in the facilities.

I said they are not that stupid. Please read what I actually write.

And I asked you to prove that they are "not that stupid." I know you can't for you are not in Iran.

*cough*
Using Hezbollah to launch a war over the summer.

Actually hezbollah captured a couple of Israeli soldiers and then Israel attacked.

They are evil lying scum and nothing they say should be trusted. However, I apologize for the wording of my post. It was not my intention to call you a fool, but to say that it would be foolish to trust them.

Well we can agree about the evil lying scum bit. And thank you for your rewording. It is very gracious.

Actually hezbollah captured a couple of Israeli soldiers and then Israel attacked.

And legal for Israel to do so.

And I asked you to prove that they are "not that stupid." I know you can't for you are not in Iran.

Prove that you are not a goldfish. Then we'll talk.

Actually hezbollah captured a couple of Israeli soldiers and then Israel attacked.

Hezbollah also launched dozens of rockets and invaded Israel to capture the soldiers. Eight were killed in the initial attack. Israel didn't attack until after they had been attacked by both the Hezbollah invasion force and the rocket attacks.

And legal for Israel to do so.

That post was not anti-israel in any way. I was merley stating that Hezbollah didnt actually need Iran's help to capture a couple of soldiers.

Actually, that's the exact garbage the Israelis fill their children with. 'After the Holocaust, the Jews needed a new home so they left Europe and came to a barren desert called Canaan, and the desert bloomed.' And if their was any ever mention of the oppressed Palestinians, it would be 'And their was people who didn't like us coming, but they just hated Jews'. Please take your ill-founded Zionist propaganda elsewhere please.

I would trust the Iranians far more than the Zionists, given track records.

Of course... I forgot when you became the Head of Israeli Education. You obviously know what they teach their children.

Not to mention that is exactly what I believe. It was just a great open desert where the poor jews settled and built it into a paradise.

[/SARCASM]

Don't count on everyone being so naive. The world knows of their terrorists tactics and attacks on non-combatants. The world also realizes that they aren't the ones who are strapping explosives to their backs and running into malls today.

That post was not anti-israel in any way. I was merley stating that Hezbollah didnt actually need Iran's help to capture a couple of soldiers.

Hezbollah is a proxy army of Iran.

Actually hezbollah captured a couple of Israeli soldiers and then Israel attacked.

It was not about the soldiers, the Israelis just wanted a reason to attack, no reasonable country in the world would start a war over two soldiers unless they had been looking for an excuse proir to the incident.

Hezbollah also launched dozens of rockets and invaded Israel to capture the soldiers. Eight were killed in the initial attack. Israel didn't attack until after they had been attacked by both the Hezbollah invasion force and the rocket attacks.

Fine and kill eight people I'm not defending Hezbollah or attacking Israel (I believe in Israels right to exist by the way) But it didnt become a full blown war until Israel invaded.

Prove that you are not a goldfish. Then we'll talk.

Want a picture? I normally do not do that but I can post several pics of me that will prove that I am not a goldfish. Oh and a goldfish cannot type on a computer.

It was not about the soldiers, the Israelis just wanted a reason to attack, no reasonable country in the world would start a war over two soldiers unless they had been looking for an excuse proir to the incident.

It wasn't over 2 soldiers. It was about them, the 8 who were killed, and the almost 100 rockets launched at Israeli cities to provide a distraction to allow for the attack on the Israeli soldiers.

That is a hell of a reason to attack. If a foreign nation did that to yours, I bet they would go to war over it.

It was not about the soldiers, the Israelis just wanted a reason to attack, no reasonable country in the world would start a war over two soldiers unless they had been looking for an excuse proir to the incident.

Umm... I'm pretty sure most countries would. It's just that most countries don't kidnap another countries soldiers when they aren't at war. It's not like Canada is picking off American soldiers on the border everyday... and if they did, we would ask for them back and then bomb the shit out of them if they refused.

You could flop around and randomly press keys. Those pictures could be of someone else.

Yep, and I'm sure your anti-semitic friend Charlie Reese told you all of this. Go get a clue because you obviously lack one.

No, obviously you are blinded by an ill perceived opinion and are blind to all other opinions other than a unanimous and total support of Israel. I have said many times I am not anti-Semitic, but only oppose the Zionist regime, which btw is extremist in it's racist policies. Yet all you seem to be able to say is 'anti-Semite'. Sad.

If Israel had nothing to hide, why has Bishop Tutu and other human rights been kicked out of Israel and the occupied territories for investigating such?

Fine and kill eight people I'm not defending Hezbollah or attacking Israel (I believe in Israels right to exist by the way) But it didnt become a full blown war until Israel invaded.

Israel didn't start the war though. The war started with Hezbollah's attack. Israel then reponded as they are legally allowed to do so.

It was not about the soldiers, the Israelis just wanted a reason to attack,

Now I'm calling bullshit.

no reasonable country in the world would start a war over two soldiers unless they had been looking for an excuse proir to the incident.

Again bullshit. America entered World War I over dead american civilians. Any nation in its right mind would launch a war to protect its own people. Having 2 soldiers taken with rocket attacks into your territory is full grounds for what Israel did to Hezbollah.

I would like to disasocciate myself from Andaras prime in any way.

I would like to disasocciate myself from Andaras prime in any way.

Can't say I blame you.;)

You could flop around and randomly press keys. Those pictures could be of someone else.

Now you are being totally retarded. It is showing. Again, are you currently in Iran?

Hezbollah is a proxy army of Iran.

No, Hezbollah in Lebanon is an independent Islamic political and military group created for stopping Zionist oppression, it receives funding from Syria. And Syria has an alliance with Iran. That's a pretty big leap.

It wasn't over 2 soldiers. It was about them, the 8 who were killed, and the almost 100 rockets launched at Israeli cities to provide a distraction to allow for the attack on the Israeli soldiers.

That is a hell of a reason to attack. If a foreign nation did that to yours, I bet they would go to war over it.

It depends on the nation, obviously, and whether it was the nation itself or a paramilitary group that existed within the nation. The response would also be more tempered, and most likely less geared towards revenge.

Damn, a gun smilie being used in a 200-somethingth post? That's got to be a record.

:gundge:

Now you are being totally retarded. It is showing. Again, are you currently in Iran?

I am making a point about proving things. And no I am not in Iran as of this moment.

No, Hezbollah in Lebanon is an independent Islamic political and military group created for stopping Zionist oppression, it receives funding from Syria. And Syria has an alliance with Iran. That's a pretty big leap.

Man, thats some funny shit. You should write for Letterman.

No, Hezbollah in Lebanon is an independent Islamic political and military group created for stopping Zionist oppression, it receives funding from Syria. And Syria has an alliance with Iran. That's a pretty big leap.

Apparently someone here has failed to realize that Hezbollah was established by Iran and supported by both Syria and Iran.

Having 2 soldiers taken with rocket attacks into your territory is full grounds for what Israel did to Hezbollah.

But they didn't do it just to Hezbollah did they. They did it to Lebanon.

I am making a point about proving things. And no I am not in Iran as of this moment.

Yea I figured.

:gundge:

:sniper: :D

I would like to disasocciate myself from Andaras prime in any way.

lol

dont we all!

But they didn't do it just to Hezbollah did they. They did it to Lebanon.

Who failed to disarm them as prescribed by UN Security Council Resolutions.

But they didn't do it just to Hezbollah did they. They did it to Lebanon.

Umm... actually I believe Israel attacked Hezbollah - it isn't Israel's fault that Lebanon (and Syria and Iran) allow Hezbollah to exist within its borders. Notice how Israel didn't attack the Lebanese military (unless they were supporting Hezbollah or planned to attack Israeli forces).

Did everything turn suddenly german for everyone, or just me?

Did everything turn suddenly german for everyone, or just me?

I think it is just u.

Five points I'd like to make...

1. Iran has chemical weapons capabilities.
2. Iran has biological weapons capabilities.
3. Iran has "dirty bomb" capabilities.
4. Iran has lots of rockets capable of reaching Israel (including a dozen or so Soviet Cruise missile bought from Ukraine.
5. Iran has a crapload of terrorists on its payroll, including Hezbollah.

If Israel was to nuke Iran's reactors, you can bet that Iran would launch every WMD they got at Israel. And if Israel destroyed most of their missiles, you can bet that Iran would arrange for Hezbollah to set off a dirty bomb or other WMD in Tel Aviv or even New York. Iran would blame the U.S. and Israel, so you can expect for them to attack us in Iraq, too. Hell, even the Iraqi government would turn against us for allowing such an attack to occur.

It's pretty weird

Who failed to disarm them as prescribed by UN Security Council Resolutions.

So the Lebanese civilian population should pay for their government's failure to conform to the rules of the UN, when Israel cannot be relied to. Surely then it is the UNs job to punish the government, rather than the Israelis job to attack the Lebanese population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_3379

Are you going to say the UN is Arab controlled now?

Five points I'd like to make...

1. Iran has chemical weapons capabilities.
2. Iran has biological weapons capabilities.
3. Iran has "dirty bomb" capabilities.
4. Iran has lots of rockets capable of reaching Israel (including a dozen or so Soviet Cruise missile bought from Ukraine.
5. Iran has a crapload of terrorists on its payroll, including Hezbollah.

If Israel was to nuke Iran's reactors, you can bet that Iran would launch every WMD they got at Israel. And if Israel destroyed most of their missiles, you can bet that Iran would arrange for Hezbollah to set off a dirty bomb or other WMD in Tel Aviv or even New York. Iran would blame the U.S. and Israel, so you can expect for them to attack us in Iraq, too. Hell, even the Iraqi government would turn against us for allowing such an attack to occur.

Simply put, save for #5, Iran isn't going to respond in such extreme matters. It serves their political agenda better to be able to point towards "Extremist Israel" as a "dangerous and irresonsible nation" that the UN should sanction if they even consider preventing Iran from creating a nuclear program.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_3379

Are you going to say the US is Arab controlled now?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_General_Assembly_Resolution_4686

Read your own article.

Here is a list of nations that voted that Zionism is Racism in 1991.


Against: (25) Afghanistan, Algeria, Bangladesh, Brunei Darussalam, Cuba, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, Libya, Malaysia, Mali, Mauritania, North Korea, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Syria, United Arab Emirates, Vietnam, Yemen.

Sounds like a great group of nations:rolleyes:

Simply put, save for #5, Iran isn't going to respond in such extreme matters. It serves their political agenda better to be able to point towards "Extremist Israel" as a "dangerous and irresonsible nation" that the UN should sanction if they even consider preventing Iran from creating a nuclear program.

Which would mean that they wont use nuclear weapons either. Thanks for agreeing with me.

Did everything turn suddenly german for everyone, or just me?

Nein, Ich denke nich. (Aber, dass ist moeglich).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_3379

Are you going to say the UN is Arab controlled now?

Who are you responding to and what is your point?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_3379

Are you going to say the US is Arab controlled now?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_General_Assembly_Resolution_4686

Read your own article.

Here is a list of nations that voted that Zionism is Racism in 1991.


(25) Afghanistan, Algeria, Bangladesh, Brunei Darussalam, Cuba, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, Libya, Malaysia, Mali, Mauritania, North Korea, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Syria, United Arab Emirates, Vietnam, Yemen.

Sounds like a great group of nations:rolleyes:

Who are you responding to and what is your point?

Proving my point that Zionism is a racist ideology.

Simply put, save for #5, Iran isn't going to respond in such extreme matters.

If you do not think they would deploy other WMDs why do you think they would use a nuclear deterrent as anything other than that.

Proving my point that Zionism is a racist ideology.

Do you know what Zionism is? Please define it.

Which would mean that they wont use nuclear weapons either. Thanks for agreeing with me.

No, no... thank you for misinterpreting my statement do sound like I agree with you.

I said "Iran wouldn't respond to nuclear attacks by using chemical, biological, or similar methods."

You interpreted "Iran has a sane, stable government that would never attack Israel."

...

I didn't say Iran wouldn't attack - I said they wouldn't make it obvious (i.e. using Hezbollah or terrorists). I also didn't say Iran wasn't insane. Nor did I say they wouldn't attack Israel - just that it would serve their interests best not to respond to a nuclear attack with extreme measures.

So the Lebanese civilian population should pay for their government's failure to conform to the rules of the UN, when Israel cannot be relied to. Surely then it is the UNs job to punish the government, rather than the Israelis job to attack the Lebanese population.

Not the Israel's fault, nor the Lebonese government for that matter, that Hezbollah put their main buildings near civilians. Not neither government's fault that they were using the infrastructure that was taken out by airstrikes.

Look, the point is that Israel had every right to fight Hezbollah to try to release it's troops. Unfortunately, they managed to use insanely excessive force in their campaign and still wound up killing more Lebanese civilians and UN peacekeepers than Hezbollah militants. The very fact that Hezbollah survived has made them heroes in the Arab world and they are now poised to take control of the Lebanese government. In short, the Israelis lost- they didn't get back their troops, they caused massive civilian causalties, and Hezbollah is more powerful and more popular than ever before.

Proving my point that Zionism is a racist ideology.

Convenient that you forgot to read or note the second sentence of that wiki article that states the resolution was revoked by another...

Damn, a gun smilie being used in a 200-somethingth post? That's got to be a record.

When you pass 10,000 posts you have to bring your own guns (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12180693&postcount=48) :D :gundge: :fluffle:

Look, the point is that Israel had every right to fight Hezbollah to try to release it's troops. Unfortunately, they managed to use insanely excessive force in their campaign and still wound up killing more Lebanese civilians and UN peacekeepers than Hezbollah militants. The very fact that Hezbollah survived has made them heroes in the Arab world and they are now poised to take control of the Lebanese government. In short, the Israelis lost- they didn't get back their troops, they caused massive civilian causalties, and Hezbollah is more powerful and more popular than ever before.

How do you know how many Hezbollah casualties there are?

Hezbollah never released them and often listed dead Hezbollah terrorists as "civilians".

No, no... thank you for misinterpreting my statement do sound like I agree with you.

I said "Iran wouldn't respond to nuclear attacks by using chemical, biological, or similar methods."

You interpreted "Iran has a sane, stable government that would never attack Israel."

...

I didn't say Iran wouldn't attack - I said they wouldn't make it obvious (i.e. using Hezbollah or terrorists). I also didn't say Iran wasn't insane. Nor did I say they wouldn't attack Israel - just that it would serve their interests best not to respond to a nuclear attack with extreme measures.

Iran does not have a stane, stable government. Look back on the "evil lying scum" comment earlier. How would it serve there interests to attack with extreme measures but not respond with them? And I have already refuted the "they'lle use Hezbollah" argument so please refute my refutation or stop using it.

I didn't say Iran wouldn't attack - I said they wouldn't make it obvious (i.e. using Hezbollah or terrorists). I also didn't say Iran wasn't insane. Nor did I say they wouldn't attack Israel - just that it would serve their interests best not to respond to a nuclear attack with extreme measures.

Do you think it is fair to label an entire country as 'insane'? Do you honestly think any amount of complaining would get the UN to do anything meaningful to or about Israel? And even if it did, the US would continue to give Israel its unwavering support, at least until it has run out of other Middle Eastern enemies. Besides, suggesting that these people have a political agenda beyond harming Israel is surely absurd, no?

Proving my point that Zionism is a racist ideology.

Why, because several (mostly dictatorial) tin-pot countries said so?

Iran does not have a stane, stable government. Look back on the "evil lying scum" comment earlier. How would it serve there interests to attack with extreme measures but not respond with them? And I have already refuted the "they'lle use Hezbollah" argument so please refute my refutation or stop using it.

Thank you for agreeing with me.

Because they are insane, they are willing to use extreme measures, including letting Hezbollah have a nuke and walk it into Israel. However, the net gain in international perspective will be greater if not responding to a nuclear attack with extreme measures than the net loss in international perspective if they are extreme not in response to something (if you can follow my wording... I can't).

Please point to where you have refuted and I will be happy to respond (or more likely point to where IDF already refuted it).

Do you know what Zionism is? Please define it.

R A C I S M

How do you know how many Hezbollah casualties there are?

Hezbollah never released them and often listed dead Hezbollah terrorists as "civilians".

True- But my main point still stands. The operation was largely a failure due to Hezbollah's propaganda victory. It really doesn't matter how many Hezbollah militants Israel killed so long as the leadership is intact and there is a steady stream of dis-allusioned Lebanese shiites that the Group can recruit.

R A C I S M

Wow, what a convincing refutation. :rolleyes:

Not the Israel's fault, nor the Lebonese government for that matter, that Hezbollah put their main buildings near civilians. Not neither government's fault that they were using the infrastructure that was taken out by airstrikes.

Don't you think the Israelis could have selected a more conservative way of removing Hezbollah? Or stopped long enough to explain that they were not at war with Lebanon, and ask if the Lebanese government would help to coordinate an assault that might cause less collateral damage? No they would rather hit civilian areas with airstrikes.

R A C I S M

W R O N G

R A C I S M

GO look in a dictionary what Zionism is.

I have a hint, go take the yellow brick road to the Wizard of Oz. He said he has reserved the Scarecrow's brain for you.

@Slythros.

I am confused. Are you saying that Iran will not use nuclear weapons because the government is evil lying scum? Or are you saying that they will? (For much the same reason).

I apologize in advance if I got the wrong end of the dog poo stick, this thread has been going at warp speed.

Israel has drawn up secret plans to destroy Iran’s uranium enrichment facilities with tactical nuclear weapons.

lol.

True- But my main point still stands. The operation was largely a failure due to Hezbollah's propaganda victory. It really doesn't matter how many Hezbollah militants Israel killed so long as the leadership is intact and there is a steady stream of dis-allusioned Lebanese shiites that the Group can recruit.

I'd agree Israel fucked up the operation. It was poorly executed and Israel failed to meet their goals, but that still doesn't change the reason why Israel went in there.

Even though it's faux news, it's still kind of scary. Doubt they would do it though.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,242243,00.html

Oh bugger. Does this mean the Jews are actually gonna start a war?

Don't you think the Israelis could have selected a more conservative way of removing Hezbollah? Or stopped long enough to explain that they were not at war with Lebanon, and ask if the Lebanese government would help to coordinate an assault that might cause less collateral damage? No they would rather hit civilian areas with airstrikes.

Yea right. Lebanon was in a precarious situation with Syrian intel agents all over the place and Hezbollah popular in the Southern part of the country. What do you think would happen if the Lebonese military entered there to remove weapons from Hezbollah?

Thank you for agreeing with me.

Because they are insane, they are willing to use extreme measures, including letting Hezbollah have a nuke and walk it into Israel. However, the net gain in international perspective will be greater if not responding to a nuclear attack with extreme measures than the net loss in international perspective if they are extreme not in response to something (if you can follow my wording... I can't).

Please point to where you have refuted and I will be happy to respond (or more likely point to where IDF already refuted it).

page 4 post 52 and they're not that insane. You're assuming they're too insane to worry about being destroyed, but not insane enough to not worry about international opinion.

R A C I S M

Funny how you would point to a wiki article to say it is racism but not read the wiki article about the subject itself...

@Slythros.

I am confused. Are you saying that Iran will not use nuclear weapons because the government is evil lying scum? Or are you saying that they will? (For much the same reason).

I apologize in advance if I got the wrong end of the dog poo stick, this thread has been going at warp speed.

They are evil, lying, scum, but not stupid enough to use/sell nukes.

They are evil, lying, scum, but not stupid enough to use/sell nukes.

Apparently you do not know the Iranian Government as well as you think you do.

Convenient that you forgot to read or note the second sentence of that wiki article that states the resolution was revoked by another...

Revoked by the US and other conservative/racist sympathizers mostly.

And IDF, a reactionary dictionary does not show the racial segregation clearly evident in Israel and the occupied territories.

Warsaw Ghetto to Abu Dis Ghetto.

Clearly you are ignoring one of my earlier questions, is Israel is not oppressive and racist, and has nothing to hide in that regard, then why have Tutu and other human rights groups been ejected from the country for investigating such?

Funny how you would point to a wiki article to say it is racism but not read the wiki article about the subject itself...

LOL!!! Rofl.:D

I start to wonder about the welfare of people today.

Yea right. Lebanon was in a precarious situation with Syrian intel agents all over the place and Hezbollah popular in the Southern part of the country. What do you think would happen if the Lebonese military entered there to remove weapons from Hezbollah?

So, instead ... airstrikes, great. Which brings us back to why the Lebanese should not suffer because Hezbollah is good at its job.

How do you know how many Hezbollah casualties there are?

Hezbollah never released them and often listed dead Hezbollah terrorists as "civilians".

I'd agree Israel fucked up the operation. It was poorly executed and Israel failed to meet their goals, but that still doesn't change the reason why Israel went in there.

I aggree. It's just that the deed is done and they should try to minimize the damage. Otherwise, Hassan Nasrallah is going to become the poster-boy for Pan-Arab unity against Israel.

Apparently you do not know the Iranian Government as well as you think you do.

Apparently you do not know the Iranian government at all.

... And the nuke would then be traced to Iran, which would be destroyed. They're not complete idiots.

I ALREADY RESPONDED TO THAT!!!

I am sorry I have to write in caps but don't chastise me about not responding to a comment when I already responded to it, refuted to it, and pointed to IDF's post refuting it.

They are evil, lying, scum, but not stupid enough to use/sell nukes.

So basically, they are not stupid enough to endanger their own well being in you opinion.

Yah. I can see that viewpoint about them.

where did you respond to it? I would be happy to respond to your response. Just point me in the right direction.

Apparently you do not know the Iranian government at all.

*snorts*

Look, the point is that Israel had every right to fight Hezbollah to try to release it's troops. Unfortunately, they managed to use insanely excessive force in their campaign and still wound up killing more Lebanese civilians and UN peacekeepers than Hezbollah militants. The very fact that Hezbollah survived has made them heroes in the Arab world and they are now poised to take control of the Lebanese government. In short, the Israelis lost- they didn't get back their troops, they caused massive civilian causalties, and Hezbollah is more powerful and more popular than ever before.

QFT.

*snorts louder*

Apparently you do not know the Iranian Government as well as you think you do.

Do you have any actual evidence that could support they would sell or use nuclear weapons, a considerable stepup on the scale of destruction and potential reprocussions.

Do you have any actual evidence that could support they would sell or use nuclear weapons, a considerable stepup on the scale of destruction and potential reprocussions.

I would not put it past them just like I would not put it past any arab country in the region save perhaps Jordan and possibly Lebanon.

Apparently you do not know the Iranian government at all.

"Before you accuse me, take a look at yourself"- Eric Clapton.

I would not put it past them just like I would not put it past any arab country in the region.

Iran is not Arab. And I am not sure if you intended it to, but that comment sounded rather racist.

where did you respond to it? I would be happy to respond to your response. Just point me in the right direction.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12180598&postcount=146
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12180586&postcount=138

I aggree. It's just that the deed is done and they should try to minimize the damage. Otherwise, Hassan Nasrallah is going to become the poster-boy for Pan-Arab unity against Israel.

That will never happen though. (Pan-Arab unity against Israel)

Egypt and Jordan both support Israel more than they do the Palestinians. Jordan actually despises them for trying to overthrow the government. Egypt has cooperated with Israel with actions in the Gaza Strip. Egypt in fact closed the border with Gaza after Gilad Shalit was captured.

And they could conveniently give Hezbollah a nuke. The IAEA isn't allowed in Iran's facilities so there wouldn't be a history to check the radiation samples against to ID them.

So Iran gets a nuke and then suddenly Hezbollah has them too. Enough evidence to satisfy Israel, Europe, and America.

Iran is not Arab. And I am not sure if you intended it to, but that comment sounded rather racist.

Did I say Iran was an Arab Country? No I did not. I said I would not put it past them just like I would not put it past any Arab country in the region. That is what I said. Nowhere did I state that Iran was an arab country. And lets not get into name calling here. I have been rather nice so far and if you want to drag name calling into it, I'm all ready for it.

Apparently you do not know the Iranian Government as well as you think you do.

slythros has a point. how many wars has iran started? what actual bad things have they done recently?

sure they LOOOOVE that proxy war by using hezbollah as their puppet thing but look at the crappy stuff they gave them. hezbollah was never going to be able to do serious damage to israel. they didnt have the arms to do so.

where is the evidence that iran would ever give hezbollah (or whatever puppet group) anything that could start a real war that iran would have to participate in?

sure the president of iran talks tough (and crazy) but that doesnt mean he has the power to do anything.

all im saying is that he has a point

That will never happen though. (Pan-Arab unity against Israel)

Egypt and Jordan both support Israel more than they do the Palestinians. Jordan actually despises them for trying to overthrow the government. Egypt has cooperated with Israel with actions in the Gaza Strip. Egypt in fact closed the border with Gaza after Gilad Shalit was captured.

Israel has peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan, I believe.

Revoked by the US and other conservative/racist sympathizers mostly.

And IDF, a reactionary dictionary does not show the racial segregation clearly evident in Israel and the occupied territories.

Yes, "by the US and other conservative/racist sympathizers" ... like those 111 nations that favored it as opposed to only 25 who opposed it (an even greater margin than that that passed the previous resolution).

Of course... damn those reactionary dictionaries. I got an idea... how about we read the encyclopedia. Try that one you were so eager to quote from before (i.e. wiki).

So Iran gets a nuke and then suddenly Hezbollah has them too. Enough evidence to satisfy Israel, Europe, and America.
The point of my post was that Iran could concievably give Hezbollah a nuke and we wouldn't be able to definitively say Iran did it. The point was to counter the argument that Iran wouldn't do it because of the consequences. My post pointed out Iran can get away with it possibly and thus would be more likely to do it.

Did I say Iran was an Arab Country? No I did not. I said I would not put it past them just like I would not put it past any Arab country in the region. That is what I said. Nowhere did I state that Iran was an arab country. And lets not get into name calling here. I have been rather nice so far and if you want to drag name calling into it, I'm all ready for it.

Not that I did not call you racist. I in fact specifically stated that I didn't know if you intended to sound racist. Its just that the comment, Intentionally or Unintentionally, sounded rather racist. Ever been to the UAE before?

Israel has peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan, I believe.

And Morocco, IIRC.

The point of my post was that Iran could concievably give Hezbollah a nuke and we wouldn't be able to definitively say Iran did it. The point was to counter the argument that Iran wouldn't do it because of the consequences. My post pointed out Iran can get away with it possibly and thus would be more likely to do it.

... But if they did retaliate (definatley a chance) then the leaders themselves or their regime would be in danger. So they won't.

Not that I did not call you racist. I in fact specifically stated that I didn't know if you intended to sound racist. Its just that the comment, Intentionally or Unintentionally, sounded rather racist. Ever been to the UAE before?

My father has. My only overseas trip so far was to Panama and that was 8 years ago.

That will never happen though. (Pan-Arab unity against Israel)

Egypt and Jordan both support Israel more than they do the Palestinians. Jordan actually despises them for trying to overthrow the government. Egypt has cooperated with Israel with actions in the Gaza Strip. Egypt in fact closed the border with Gaza after Gilad Shalit was captured.

Just because the Egyptian and Jordanian governments support Israel doesn't mean the average Arab citizen will. Keep in mind that Egypt won't let the widely popular Islamic Brotherhood take part in elections. The Arab people feel their governments have failed them in the conflicts with Israel; therefore, Hezbollah's "victory" provides some sort of hope to many Arabs who have long felt discouraged by their inability to defeat Israel.

And Morocco, IIRC.

Lebanon has also signed what amounts to a peace treaty in every sense except name with Israel.

My father has. My only overseas trip so far was to Panama and that was 8 years ago.

Then he will know that it is a great country (Although Arab) kindly do not make generalizations.

Just because the Egyptian and Jordanian governments support Israel doesn't mean the average Arab citizen will. Keep in mind that Egypt won't let the widely popular Islamic Brotherhood take part in elections. The Arab people feel their governments have failed them in the conflicts with Israel; therefore, Hezbollah's "victory" provides some sort of hope to many Arabs who have long felt discouraged by their inability to defeat Israel.

"One more victory like that and we shall lose the war" or something like that.