NationStates Jolt Archive

Society punishes for a variety of reasons.

The main one is deterence or as Lord Halifax put it: "Men are not hanged for stealing horses, but that horses may not be stolen."

Another reason is simply to keep the bad people away from the good people. Of course if there are more bad people than good people, as occasionally happens, then lots of good people may die one way or another.

Society, perhaps with rare exceptions, does not seem to believe that revenge is a good reason for punishing people.

If the above is reasonably true, then what is the point in hanging Saddam Hussein?

It isn't likely to deter any dictator in power. Many dictators have died horrible deaths one way or another, yet there seems to be a never ending list of applicants for the job. It is not likely to have any significant calming effect on the religious faction fight currently in progress.

That leaves revenge. If that is true, has the western world now joined the middle eastern world down in the morality gutter?

Society punishes for a variety of reasons.

The main one is deterence or as Lord Halifax put it: "Men are not hanged for stealing horses, but that horses may not be stolen."

Another reason is simply to keep the bad people away from the good people. Of course if there are more bad people than good people, as occasionally happens, then lots of good people may die one way or another.

Society, perhaps with rare exceptions, does not seem to believe that revenge is a good reason for punishing people.

If the above is reasonably true, then what is the point in hanging Saddam Hussein?

It isn't likely to deter any dictator in power. Many dictators have died horrible deaths one way or another, yet there seems to be a never ending list of applicants for the job. It is not likely to have any significant calming effect on the religious faction fight currently in progress.

That leaves revenge. If that is true, has the western world now joined the middle eastern world down in the morality gutter?


its not revenge; its justice.

the point of the court system is to set things right when they have gone wrong. if everyone feels that JUSTICE has been done, they are content. they dont seek revenge; they dont take justice into their own hands.

if the shi'ites feel that justice has been done in the execution of saddam hussein they will be less likely to go out to slaughter sunnis and ex-baathists.

Was Sadaam protecting anyone when he killed so many? No, he was protecting no lives, only his power. So, self defense (both national and personal) is ruled out. Was he punishing crimes? No, he was oppressing people, not detering or punishing criminals.

So the only two justified reasons for purposely killing someone were not Sadaam's reasons. So he's a murderer. And Scripture says that murderers are to be executed.

So the reason he was excecuted (or at least what the reason should be) is obedience.

I think the primary reason for imprisoning people should be protection. I say should, not is. The second most important reason should be deterence. Unfortunately much of our criminal justice system seems to be centered around revenge. "He deserves the death penalty!"
In my view, no one deserves it, though doubtless others will disagree. Sometimes in the heat of emotion even I feel like that, but change my mind upon reflection.

If that is true, has the western world now joined the middle eastern world down in the morality gutter?

Its been there for quite a while now.

its not revenge; its justice.

the point of the court system is to set things right when they have gone wrong. if everyone feels that JUSTICE has been done, they are content. they dont seek revenge; they dont take justice into their own hands.

if the shi'ites feel that justice has been done in the execution of saddam hussein they will be less likely to go out to slaughter sunnis and ex-baathists.

From a purely idealogical standpoint, is anything gained by carrying out this "justice"?

its not revenge; its justice.

so your suggesting someone was killed for no apparent reason?

the point of the court system is to set things right when they have gone wrong. if everyone feels that JUSTICE has been done, they are content. they dont seek revenge; they dont take justice into their own hands.

wrong, court is built to settle disputes

if the shi'ites feel that justice has been done in the execution of saddam hussein they will be less likely to go out to slaughter sunnis and ex-baathists.

so by your logic because it appeased the people it makes it right hmmm

I think the primary reason for imprisoning people should be protection.

we imprison people to "teach them a lesson" so that they don't re-offend (otherwise we end up in pre-transportation Europe hanging everyone)

The second most important reason should be deterence.

deterrence has never worked in all of civilizations history why should it know? (in fact history has shown that periods of harsher deterrents have increase crime!*)

*well by increased I mean slowed down the fall through history (unless you read the mirror of course)

Unfortunately much of our criminal justice system seems to be centered around revenge. "He deserves the death penalty!" In my view, no one deserves it, though doubtless others will disagree. Sometimes in the heat of emotion even I feel like that, but change my mind upon reflection.

*nods* its a sad reflection on a society that people not only assume the behaviour of a violent mob, they actively seek it out

From a purely idealogical standpoint, is anything gained by carrying out this "justice"?

thats for the iraqi people to decide. its no justice for me. saddam hussein never did anything to me or my people.

so your suggesting someone was killed for no apparent reason?

wrong, court is built to settle disputes

so by your logic because it appeased the people it makes it right hmmm


you dont believe in justice?

civil court is built to settle disputes, criminal court is for justice.

there is no way that those killed by hussein can be brought back. all that can be done is "justice" so that the people feel that his crimes are paid for. if that happens, everyone is satisfied and no more payback is necessary.

did that happen? i dont know.

you dont believe in justice?

by your definition absolutely not

civil court is built to settle disputes, criminal court is for justice.

Same thing just that one involves a punishment

there is no way that those killed by hussein can be brought back. all that can be done is "justice" so that the people feel that his crimes are paid for. if that happens, everyone is satisfied and no more payback is necessary.

Retribution =/= justice, and no I don’t think killing will make anyone feel better

did that happen? i dont know.

well no it didn’t thus your statement about appeasing the Shiites is fairly redundant no?