NationStates Jolt Archive

To be frank, is there a worse time to be an American? With the oft-overpublicized war in Iraq, terrorism in major parts of the democratic world blamed on the war, angry mobs in dozens of countries protesting against us, an Axis of Evil that infuriates others, a standoff with North Korea and now Iran about nuclear arms, and people globally burning effegies of Bush, is there a worse time to be American?

I bet the Civil War was pretty shitty.

To be frank, is there a worse time to be an American? With the oft-overpublicized war in Iraq, terrorism in major parts of the democratic world blamed on the war, angry mobs in dozens of countries protesting against us, an Axis of Evil that infuriates others, a standoff with North Korea and now Iran about nuclear arms, and people globally burning effegies of Bush, is there a worse time to be American?
I doubt that the Civil War a a particularly nice time, or the Revolution, that also wasn't such a good time (depending upon the company of course).

Actually I can think of a number of times that haven't been all that great.

I bet the Civil War was pretty shitty.

Ditto.

The Great Depression comes to mind as well.

As does the Cuban Missile Crisis...though that was a short term incident, it could arguably be called the darkest time in American history.

I heard that great depression thingy sucked major donkey balls.

I suppose it depends more which segment of society you live in however. Like in gangs of new york.

what i mean is, it seems like americans are "looked down upon" you could say because we're simply americans living under president bush.

its like russia was the butt of so many jokes and now america is... a generalization, but meh.

what i mean is, it seems like americans are "looked down upon" you could say because we're simply americans living under president bush.

its like russia was the butt of so many jokes and now america is... a generalization, but meh.

Welcome to the club.
If you take a short look at history, you'll notice that all countries (or at least all I can think of) have been looked down upon at some time or other.
Germany, anyone?

what i mean is, it seems like americans are "looked down upon" you could say because we're simply americans living under president bush.

its like russia was the butt of so many jokes and now america is... a generalization, but meh.


Exactly..."meh"

Grow thicker skin. :)

Quit whinning. We still have our rights and freedoms to dissent and yadda yadda. We still have a strong economy and military. Though many people hate the gov't we are still respected for many things we have done throughout the years. The worst time to be an american is when there is America no more.

To be frank, is there a worse time to be an American? With the oft-overpublicized war in Iraq, terrorism in major parts of the democratic world blamed on the war, angry mobs in dozens of countries protesting against us, an Axis of Evil that infuriates others, a standoff with North Korea and now Iran about nuclear arms, and people globally burning effegies of Bush, is there a worse time to be American?

It all depends on what you mean by worst time.

At another time I would take issue with anyone calling the war in Iraq
over-publicised but its not too relevant for this.

The war in Iraq barely touches the lives of most US citizens
Terrorism barely touches the lives of most US citizens
The US has little concern about the feelings or attitudes of the people
of those countries that protest against the US
Nonsensical nomenclature such as the purported axis of evil may infuriate
most of the rest of the world but again the fact that it does has no impact
on US citizens.
North Korea has basic nuclear weapons but is no actual threat to the
US not having any ability to deliver them even if it were inclined to try.
Iran has no nuclear weapons at all nor as far as we can tell has any intention
of trying to have nuclear weapons, so its the ideal threat to the US
the same way as the daddy monster is the ideal threat to a 4 year old child,
a little frisson of fear, whilst knowing that everything is alright really.
People burning effigies of George Bush again has no impact on US citizens
other than occasioning a little mirth or even better the slight warm feeling
of righteous indignation.

On the other hand, the US has fewer friends in terms of other nations
than at any time in its history. Citizens of nations who having family ties
to the US historically felt that it was nearly a promised land of freedom,
justice, human rights etc., tended to look on its international activities
as good intentions gone wrong, regardless of the reality, now look on it with contempt.
But why should that bother the average US citizen.
The illusions are falling away but behind the illusions the US remains the
worlds only superpower with military equipment and technology far in excess
of any other country and an ongoing budget to match.

The only way that this could be the worst time to be a US citizen is if
the US ideal of decency and democracy and justice for all had been important
to them. In other words only people for whom the promise of the US
was key or who took strength from the admiration that used to come
from around the world can possibly feel worse off at this time.

what i mean is, it seems like americans are "looked down upon" you could say because we're simply americans living under president bush.

its like russia was the butt of so many jokes and now america is... a generalization, but meh.

Anyone who would look down on someone because of who the president of their respective country is a bit of a dickhead anyway.

But really, who cares. I find that the USA doesn't actually dominate the thoughts of most people in foreign countries anyway. Most europeans are apathetic about the whole thing. (Ignore NSG, it's not representative).

...
On the other hand, the US has fewer friends in terms of other nations
than at any time in its history. Citizens of nations who having family ties
to the US historically felt that it was nearly a promised land of freedom,
justice, human rights etc., tended to look on its international activities
as good intentions gone wrong, regardless of the reality, now look on it with contempt....

I'd like to clarify that bit.
The US still has many friends, in Europe and elsewhere. At least according to my definition of friendship, which is basically "someone offering help, advise and assistance without asking for anything in return". However, I (and many of the nations who would call themselves friends of the US) sometimes get the impression that this kind of friendship has been rejected in a rather hurtful and insulting way in the past, and only nations who completely went along with anything the US said and did were regarded as friends by them.

A friend is not someone who goes to buy you a gun when you announce that you want to commit a school massacre, a friend is someone who will try and talk you out of it.

I live in LA, so every single death in Iraq makes it on the front page of the news and in the first 2 minutes of a few TV broadcasts. I've also heard the term "bloodiest month" thrown around more than the favor for the Democratic ticket, but another story for another time.

ive been mulling over the issue awhile since the tests in north korea, but surely there was some collaboration between them and either the Chinese or the Soviets pre-'91 as far as their ballistic missiles were concerned? i mean, after all, it was china that drove back the UN troops in the korean war...

I'd like to clarify that bit.
The US still has many friends, in Europe and elsewhere. At least according to my definition of friendship, which is basically "someone offering help, advise and assistance without asking for anything in return". However, I (and many of the nations who would call themselves friends of the US) sometimes get the impression that this kind of friendship has been rejected in a rather hurtful and insulting way in the past, and only nations who completely went along with anything the US said and did were regarded as friends by them.

A friend is not someone who goes to buy you a gun when you announce that you want to commit a school massacre, a friend is someone who will try and talk you out of it.

Your definition of friendship in this case I fully agree with but I would stand
by my statement that there are fewer and fewer friends of the US in any
sense of the word with every passing year even in countries with
very close ties.

You are absolutely right in pointing out that certain segments of the US
cannot tell the the difference between friendship and subservience.
We saw how those sections turned their hatred on friendly nations who
tried to hold them back from wrong-headed, immoral and ill thought out actions.
It is a pity that more nations did not act as real friends should have.

If a foriegn power invades and occupies America, and then announces that they will be beginning a policy of genocide against all of its citizens, I think that would be the worst time to be an American.

In the meantime, quit whining... theres nothing majorly wrong with the United States, no more than there is any other country that is. Every nation has its problems, has its protesters, has its fans and its not-so-supportive mobs.

what i mean is, it seems like americans are "looked down upon" you could say because we're simply americans living under president bush.

no that’s because your American (dates back to the whole Suez canal conflict) and no the world hated America allot more during the time of napoleon

its like russia was the butt of so many jokes and now america is... a generalization, but meh.

haven’t heard too many Russian jokes myself in fact I can't give any off the top of my head I think that is more American humour

haven’t heard too many Russian jokes myself in fact I can't give any off the top of my head I think that is more American humour

um, the whole "Iron Curtain" thing and all of the other negativities towards the Soviet imperialism.

um, the whole "Iron Curtain" thing and all of the other negativities towards the Soviet imperialism.

Must be an American thing, there wasn't that much of it over here. And I grew up during the Cold War.

um, the whole "Iron Curtain" thing and all of the other negativities towards the Soviet imperialism.

in soviet russia, curtain irons you!

If a foriegn power invades and occupies America, and then announces that they will be beginning a policy of genocide against all of its citizens, I think that would be the worst time to be an American.

In the meantime, quit whining... theres nothing majorly wrong with the United States, no more than there is any other country that is. Every nation has its problems, has its protesters, has its fans and its not-so-supportive mobs.



I think you just quoted me..in reverse..

-shakes fist angerly- :p

in soviet russia, curtain irons you!

That was actually funny, unlike almost every other Soviet Russia joke.

Also: I don't think this is a particularly horrible time to be an American. Not a fantastic one to be sure, but not absolutely horrible. It's not like we're Nazi Germany killing Jews, homosexuals, gypsies, and other en masse here or anything.

well i think to say that there's a bad time to be an american is rather is silly, in that we have all we need and have so many civil rights we dont know what to do with them. So do remember that you're not eating clay dirt or sleeping in the street like 85% of African childern.

thanks

your local socialist

The period under the Articles of Confederation , 1798-1800, 1807-1808, 1814, 1820, 1837, 1850, 1854, 1858, 1860-1870, 1917-1918, 1929-1945, 1960, 1962, 1965-1973, 1974, 1979. There's my list

I'd like to clarify that bit.
The US still has many friends, in Europe and elsewhere. At least according to my definition of friendship, which is basically "someone offering help, advise and assistance without asking for anything in return". However, I (and many of the nations who would call themselves friends of the US) sometimes get the impression that this kind of friendship has been rejected in a rather hurtful and insulting way in the past, and only nations who completely went along with anything the US said and did were regarded as friends by them.

A friend is not someone who goes to buy you a gun when you announce that you want to commit a school massacre, a friend is someone who will try and talk you out of it.

i SO look forward to the day when we have a person in the whitehouse who is good enough at foreign policy to at least not insult our friends.

im hoping for someone who can deal with our enemies and those who are neutral too. it would greatly lessen our need to go to war.

but we at least need to have someone who treats our friends as if they were our friends not our dependants.

If a foriegn power invades and occupies America, and then announces that they will be beginning a policy of genocide against all of its citizens, I think that would be the worst time to be an American.

You mean when the Europeans set foot on the continent, right... ;)

That was indeed the worst time to be an American

If a foriegn power invades and occupies America, and then announces that they will be beginning a policy of genocide against all of its citizens, I think that would be the worst time to be an American.

In the meantime, quit whining... theres nothing majorly wrong with the United States, no more than there is any other country that is. Every nation has its problems, has its protesters, has its fans and its not-so-supportive mobs.

Save, perhaps, the general level of education? :rolleyes:

You mean when the Europeans set foot on the continent, right... ;)

That was indeed the worst time to be an American

A thinly-veiled reference to the Native American population.

Well, for those first Americans, now is certainly worse than then. Being hunted at least means that SOME of you are free and fighting to remain so. Take a trip to some plains state indian reservations and tell me it's better now in any way, shape or form, and I'll consider you mentally in arrears.

It's always been bad to be an American. Unless we're needed to fight some war for someone.

Those who are agitating against the US are just jealous, so big diddles...

It's always been bad to be an American. Unless we're needed to fight some war for someone.

Those who are agitating against the US are just jealous, so big diddles...

Yes

The little girl grade school argument has nailed the situation perfectly

Everybody is just jealous.

Yes

The little girl grade school argument has nailed the situation perfectly

Everybody is just jealous.

That and the fact that the US fights its wars on behalf of others :D

It's always been bad to be an American. Unless we're needed to fight some war for someone.

Those who are agitating against the US are just jealous, so big diddles...

Jealous? What are you, twelve?

When 5% of the global population consumes 25%+ of the world's resources, that's not jealousy, it's indignation and scorn, and we've earned it.

When a powerful nation uses its military to intervene in other nations' affairs in order to maintain its supply of oil, and refuses to intervene where intervention is necessary because there's no oil there...well, that's not jealousy, it's outrage.

Think about it -- if you went in to work every day and there was a morbidly obese, loud, obnoxious, underachieving and intrusive guy there who continually boasted about accomplishments completed decades ago, used five times the normal amount of office supplies or break-room food, and kept saying things like "I'm the best motherfucker here!" while doing it -- how would you react? Would you snicker if he slipped on something and fell on his overrated ass?

You know you would.

nah, Id say that with the democrats holding both houses (for now) Americas fortunes are on the road to getting better

the war in Iraq is a testament to the overwhelming stupidity of the Bush administration. I mean they really really emphatically really should have known better than to go on a frivolous foreign adventure, its costing them hell now, and if America pulls out it will be completely unethical- and for leaving Iraq in a state of relative disorder, Iraqis will probably find that reason to hate them more than just with the resentment they already have for America occupying their country

To be frank, is there a worse time to be an American? With the oft-overpublicized war in Iraq, terrorism in major parts of the democratic world blamed on the war, angry mobs in dozens of countries protesting against us, an Axis of Evil that infuriates others, a standoff with North Korea and now Iran about nuclear arms, and people globally burning effegies of Bush, is there a worse time to be American?

Almost half of the voters voted for this. They were proud of it. That's the way it works.

Do try to separate the mass-media saturation, political rhetoric, and hyperbola from plain reality, please.

Bottom line? You turn off the TV and the computer, and everything you mentioned disappears without even a puff of smoke. Iran can't hurt us, Korea can't hurt us, "terrorists" haven't hurt us, sticks and stones from the international community never hurt us, and quite frankly, a large part of the American population wouldn't mind burning some Bush effigies of their own.

None of these things you mentioned even comes close to impacting the day to day life of the average American. Ok, that isn't quite true; the families of the soldiers in Iraq are directly affected. Beyond that, very few people.

The Revolution was pretty shitty, the Civil War was worse, the Depression was pretty much hell for everyone, WWII was a blessing and a curse for a lot of people, and the Cold War was probably more fear-inducing then the "War on Terror." Today, reality is boring and lukewarm for most people. We need a little political outrage and paranoia to keep our blood pumping.

Almost half of the voters voted for this. They were proud of it. That's the way it works.

No, they voted for the author of the policy -- or rather, the figurehead representing the multiple authors of the policy. War is never put to an actual public vote beyond media polling.

At the time, 9/11 was still a raw wound and opposing the Bush Administration after 9/11 was insanely unpopular. Politicians tend to seek retention of their offices rather than their integrity, so lawmakers stood in line to endorse the war, ignoring those who railed against it. Had Bush stopped in Afghanistan and not crept his way into Iraq, we'd be having a different discussion now.

The people who elected those who were "proud" to support a specious war changed their minds to a majority-changing degree in November of 2006. Never confuse the leaders with the citizens in a "democracy" like ours.

Do try to separate the mass-media saturation, political rhetoric, and hyperbola from plain reality, please.

Bottom line? You turn off the TV and the computer, and everything you mentioned disappears without even a puff of smoke. Iran can't hurt us, Korea can't hurt us, "terrorists" haven't hurt us, sticks and stones from the international community never hurt us, and quite frankly, a large part of the American population wouldn't mind burning some Bush effigies of their own.

None of these things you mentioned even comes close to impacting the day to day life of the average American. Ok, that isn't quite true; the families of the soldiers in Iraq are directly affected. Beyond that, very few people.
*snip*


Been on a commercial airliner lately? Tried to travel on one without checked baggage while still bringing toiletries and a free bottle of water from home? They have hurt us -- by making us paranoid and susceptible to the kind of irrational rhetoric that allowed and encouraged our military to intercourse the canine in Iraq.

Jealous? What are you, twelve?

Personal insults.

Always a great way to start the day.

When 5% of the global population consumes 25%+ of the world's resources, that's not jealousy, it's indignation and scorn, and we've earned it.

ppfftt... Globalism is for those who can't do anything for themselves.

When a powerful nation uses its military to intervene in other nations' affairs in order to maintain its supply of oil,

Got an example?

and refuses to intervene where intervention is necessary because there's no oil there...well, that's not jealousy, it's outrage.

We are not on this planet to serve at the beck and call of other nations.

Think about it -- if you went in to work every day and there was a morbidly obese, loud, obnoxious, underachieving and intrusive guy there who continually boasted about accomplishments completed decades ago, used five times the normal amount of office supplies or break-room food, and kept saying things like "I'm the best motherfucker here!" while doing it -- how would you react? Would you snicker if he slipped on something and fell on his overrated ass?

When this overweight guy has provided the defense of the office for 30 years without asking for anything in return, has saved the office from hostile takeovers twice in one week, has provided advancements in science and technology to make running the office easier and more efficient and provides most of the food for the office, I think I'd let him boast a bit.

Especially when it's true.

You know you would.

Don't for an instant presume to dictate to me what I do or do not know. you aren't qualified.

\
When 5% of the global population consumes 25%+ of the world's resources, that's not jealousy, it's indignation and scorn, and we've earned it.

That 5% of the population also produces 20.3% of the gross world product and is the backbone for world economic growth; we consume so much because so many people are willing to buy and invest in our products, and we are willing to pay for it with the money we earn through our work. That means we provide 20% of all of the goods and services consumed by every single person in the entire world. Our rates of consumption simply reflect the demands placed upon us by the world market.

The US is doing absolutely nothing wrong. We're simply the best at what we do, and we have been rewarded for it by having one of the highest standards of living on Earth. The US is the strongest part of the world economy, and we deservedly reap the rewards of globalization.

Been on a commercial airliner lately? Tried to travel on one without checked baggage while still bringing toiletries and a free bottle of water from home? They have hurt us -- by making us paranoid and susceptible to the kind of irrational rhetoric that allowed and encouraged our military to intercourse the canine in Iraq.

Actually, I did fly to California earlier this year. If you bring your common sense along, it is very likely that you will get where you are going unscathed. Honestly. Sure, it is a bloody annoyance, but I am not entirely certain I would have liked things to stay the same as they were.

Are you paranoid, mate? Personally I mean.

Think about it -- if you went in to work every day and there was a morbidly obese, loud, obnoxious, underachieving and intrusive guy there who continually boasted about accomplishments completed decades ago, used five times the normal amount of office supplies or break-room food, and kept saying things like "I'm the best motherfucker here!" while doing it -- how would you react? Would you snicker if he slipped on something and fell on his overrated ass?.

I'd say he's pretty damn competent, seeing as how he continues to create some of the most innovative and successful products on Earth, develop thousands of new technological innovations, provide the highest per-capita income on Earth, make his personal currency the de facto world standard, influence world politics at will, control the most powerful military on Earth, train millions of qualified graduates in one of the best university systems on Earth, and provide state of the art facilities and infrastructure for international investment.

To be frank, is there a worse time to be an American? With the oft-overpublicized war in Iraq, terrorism in major parts of the democratic world blamed on the war, angry mobs in dozens of countries protesting against us, an Axis of Evil that infuriates others, a standoff with North Korea and now Iran about nuclear arms, and people globally burning effegies of Bush, is there a worse time to be American?

You must have missed the Cold War, especially the Cuban Missile Crisis, when my parents had to change their underwear about 40 times a day.

Jealous? What are you, twelve?

When 5% of the global population consumes 25%+ of the world's resources, that's not jealousy, it's indignation and scorn, and we've earned it.



In addition to producing 20.3% of the world GDP, we also have been paying for the defense of Europe, part of the Middle East, and a good chuck of Asia for the last 50 years.

And yes, a lot of the world is jealous of us. Moreover, in a lot of cases, that jealousy masks envy. Most of the world wants to be like us. Why do you think it is that so many people literally risk their lives in order to get to this country?

1775

Kit Carson;12175321']In addition to producing 20.3% of the world GDP, we also have been paying for the defense of Europe, part of the Middle East, and a good chuck of Asia for the last 50 years.

And yes, a lot of the world is jealous of us. Moreover, in a lot of cases, that jealousy masks envy. Most of the world wants to be like us. Why do you think it is that so many people literally risk their lives in order to get to this country?

Yeah, how many Americans have risked their lives to live "a better life in Iran"?

trust me in 4 years time being called an american is gonna be such an insult that even animals are offended by it

People have risked their lives to get to Britain and France, y'know

People have risked their lives to get to Britain and France, y'know

In the past year? Flying there on Virgin Atlantic isn't exactly "risking their lives".

In the past year? Flying there on Virgin Atlantic isn't exactly "risking their lives".

Many would sigh and proclaim that as another example of American self-importance but since I'm such a nice guy I'll kindly explain that I didn't mean Americans risked their lives to get to Britain but rather people from less developed countries. I'll even drop in a little smiley guy :)

Many would sigh and proclaim that as another example of American self-importance but since I'm such a nice guy I'll kindly explain that I didn't mean Americans risked their lives to get to Britain but rather people from less developed countries. I'll even drop in a little smiley guy :)

Since the topic is Americans, and we're talking about whether or not people are fleeing America, and risking their lives to do so, your point is rather random.

Since the topic is Americans, and we're talking about whether or not people are fleeing America, and risking their lives to do so, your point is rather random.

"Most of the world wants to be like us. Why do you think it is that so many people literally risk their lives in order to get to this country?"

Random it wasn't.

"Most of the world wants to be like us. Why do you think it is that so many people literally risk their lives in order to get to this country?"

Random it wasn't.

I'd be willing to bet that it's Western countries in general who get the influx of people risking their lives to get in, with the US getting the majority (unless you count the EU as a single country).

I don't see people fleeing Western countries en masse, and risking death to become citizens of Islamic nations.

Think about it -- if you went in to work every day and there was a morbidly obese, loud, obnoxious, underachieving and intrusive guy there who continually boasted about accomplishments completed decades ago, used five times the normal amount of office supplies or break-room food, and kept saying things like "I'm the best motherfucker here!" while doing it -- how would you react? Would you snicker if he slipped on something and fell on his overrated ass?



It is very foolish of you to compare the United States to said office boor.
Not every US citizen supports that attitude and the ones who do don't understand what's wrong with it.
It's not their fault, remember half of every population is below average in some area and if the average isn't exactly firing on all cylinders, then... .

Worst time:
1861-1865

Second Worst:
1929-1941

Third Worst:
1972-1975

Fourth:
2002-present or 1870's.

Worst time:
1861-1865

Second Worst:
1929-1941

Third Worst:
1972-1975

Fourth:
2002-present or 1870's.

I disagree with all of those. This one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis

is the worst, since it's the only one where we came within a hair of blowing ourselves (and a significant portion of the world's population) into oblivion.

I disagree with all of those. This one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis

is the worst, since it's the only one where we came within a hair of blowing ourselves (and a significant portion of the world's population) into oblivion.

Not really, both sides were willing to back down, we just needed to get the Soviets to blink, which they did.

Kennedy, though, was willing to blink.

Welcome to the club.
If you take a short look at history, you'll notice that all countries (or at least all I can think of) have been looked down upon at some time or other.
Germany, anyone?Why are you using the the past tense?
*legs it whilst screaming 'No sex please, I'm British'*

Actually, change that to screaming 'Don't mention the warrrrrrr'

I think America could have kept out of a lot of trouble if it didn't have an army.

I think America could have kept out of a lot of trouble if it didn't have an army.

And have been conquered in 1812, split in 1861, immensely inconvenienced in 1916, really buggered in 1941 or greatly bothered in 1946?

"Most of the world wants to be like us. Why do you think it is that so many people literally risk their lives in order to get to this country?"

Random it wasn't.

why? because anywhere is better than where they are......every western country has a lineup of people risking their lives to get in.....The EU has the same illegal immigration problem that the US has......

why? because anywhere is better than where they are......every western country has a lineup of people risking their lives to get in.....The EU has the same illegal immigration problem that the US has......

mexicans?

Worst time to be an American? From 1521 to the 1700s I´d say. Just dropping dead or being killed left and right.

And have been conquered in 1812, split in 1861, immensely inconvenienced in 1916, really buggered in 1941 or greatly bothered in 1946?But of course. If the damn yanks hadn't revolted then there wouldn't have been such needless bloodshed, nor a some petty civil war. You could have then declared independence in WWI like the damn Irish. No one would have come after you, except the British once the war ended, and even then the remanents of an army might not be able to crush the american militas into oblivion. Then the US would have pursued an isolationist policy for the rest of the C20th and stayed out of WWII and not got entagled in Vietnam or Korea. The USA would perfect and every American would be so happy that their minds would implode by the age of 40 because they couldn't hack being so happy all the time.

But of course. If the damn yanks hadn't revolted then there wouldn't have been such needless bloodshed, nor a some petty civil war. You could have then declared independence in WWI like the damn Irish. No one would have come after you, except the British once the war ended, and even then the remanents of an army might not be able to crush the american militas into oblivion. Then the US would have pursued an isolationist policy for the rest of the C20th and stayed out of WWII and not got entagled in Vietnam or Korea. The USA would perfect and every American would be so happy that their minds would implode by the age of 40 because they couldn't hack being so happy all the time.

So are you saying happiness would delay the moment their minds implode all the
way up to 40?

But of course. If the damn yanks hadn't revolted then there wouldn't have been such needless bloodshed, nor a some petty civil war. You could have then declared independence in WWI like the damn Irish. No one would have come after you, except the British once the war ended, and even then the remanents of an army might not be able to crush the american militas into oblivion. Then the US would have pursued an isolationist policy for the rest of the C20th and stayed out of WWII and not got entagled in Vietnam or Korea. The USA would perfect and every American would be so happy that their minds would implode by the age of 40 because they couldn't hack being so happy all the time.

Of course, if America wasn't an independent power then we really can't guess what history would have turned out. Though in the case of WWII without the US Europe would have been overrun as I find it doubtful the Soviets could have stopped Hitler alone. Once Europe was his I see no reason why he wouldn't have sailed across the Atlantic and come after us. Isolationism doesn't work after all. Just gets you killed after everyone else.

Besides, I like the fact that we were involved in WWII and Korea. Would have been nice if Truman didn't chicken out and just kicked the damn Chinese out of Korea and united the penninsula so then we wouldn't have this issue we do now though....


Oh, and to the OP I would have to agree that now would be the worst time to be an American. We have had struggles in the past but we could still be proud to be a citizen of the U.S. With the policies of that bastard Bush, you really can feel ashamed though.

So are you saying happiness would delay the moment their minds implode all the
way up to 40?Well I'm considering the mind of the average american will have evolved much faster than normal whilst under colonial rule, and as such are able to take the strain of emotions for much longer without showing. Like the British. You can get Britons who can their whole life without ever showing they are happy. Such self control is admirable.

I bet pretty much everything prior to the 1940's sucked, when you had the choice of either living in teeming slummy ghettos or freezing plains.

Losing fingers to frostbite, rampant political machine-fueled government corruption, and the total lack of even basic medical hygiene probably sucked worse than getting egged by a bunch of foreign weiners.

Of course, if America wasn't an independent power then we really can't guess what history would have turned out. Though in the case of WWII without the US Europe would have been overrun as I find it doubtful the Soviets could have stopped Hitler alone. Once Europe was his I see no reason why he wouldn't have sailed across the Atlantic and come after us. Isolationism doesn't work after all. Just gets you killed after everyone else.You still would have been the british colonial bitches. You'd have been spitting out tanks and planes faster than a teenage naval estate mother spits out babies. You would be to Britain what Central Asia was to the USSR.

trust me in 4 years time being called an american is gonna be such an insult that even animals are offended by it

That only exposes the true self-loathing nature of the person who considers it an insult.

Now take into consideration if you really value the opinion of the turd that would call you and AMerican out of contempt.

No-I really am not concerned with those people's opinions.

Oh, and to the OP I would have to agree that now would be the worst time to be an American. We have had struggles in the past but we could still be proud to be a citizen of the U.S. With the policies of that bastard Bush, you really can feel ashamed though.

Who the fuck is struggling? I'm flourishing,as is most everyone I know.

I'm proud to be a citzen of the US and always will be.

The opinions of people outside our borders are making you struggle somehow?

Who the fuck is struggling? I'm flourishing,as is most everyone I know.

I'm proud to be a citzen of the US and always will be.

The opinions of people outside our borders are making you struggle somehow?

I said struggle in the past, the Great Depression comes to mind.

In moments of weakness I feel sorry for us all, Bush gives all Americans bad names and then his blind supporters only make it worse. People after all have trouble seperating a countrys government with its people. Still, the fact that Bush WAS reelected lets you know that you can put many of the American people in the same category. Sad, but the truth hurts.

To be frank, is there a worse time to be an American? With the oft-overpublicized war in Iraq, terrorism in major parts of the democratic world blamed on the war, angry mobs in dozens of countries protesting against us, an Axis of Evil that infuriates others, a standoff with North Korea and now Iran about nuclear arms, and people globally burning effegies of Bush, is there a worse time to be American?
World respect for Americans is at a low point, yes.

But there have been numerous worse times to actually be an American.

Kit Carson;12175321']
And yes, a lot of the world is jealous of us. Moreover, in a lot of cases, that jealousy masks envy. Most of the world wants to be like us. Why do you think it is that so many people literally risk their lives in order to get to this country?

Wow.... millions of people want to be like Europe, by that logic.

I'd say he's pretty damn competent, seeing as how he continues to create some of the most innovative and successful products on Earth, develop thousands of new technological innovations, provide the highest per-capita income on Earth, make his personal currency the de facto world standard, influence world politics at will, control the most powerful military on Earth, train millions of qualified graduates in one of the best university systems on Earth, and provide state of the art facilities and infrastructure for international investment.

Statistics to back any of this up -- especially the per capita income claim -- will be hard to find. I'll assume that's why you provided none. And your "world standard" has been steadily losing value for some time now.

Actually, I did fly to California earlier this year. If you bring your common sense along, it is very likely that you will get where you are going unscathed. Honestly. Sure, it is a bloody annoyance, but I am not entirely certain I would have liked things to stay the same as they were.

I'm not talking about being scathed. I'm talking about gross paranoia and overreaction based upon single instances and the marketing of fear. It started with the shoe bomber, and now it's water and "gels". What if the next threat is peanuts, ice, pretzels, diapers or tampons? Using TSA's past reactions as a template, flying would be just about one of the worst experiences you'd ever voluntarily subject yourself to.

Are you paranoid, mate? Personally I mean.

Is there any other way to be paranoid?
I had assumed you meant "personally" when you made use of the pronoun "you".

That 5% of the population also produces 20.3% of the gross world product and is the backbone for world economic growth; we consume so much because so many people are willing to buy and invest in our products, and we are willing to pay for it with the money we earn through our work. That means we provide 20% of all of the goods and services consumed by every single person in the entire world. Our rates of consumption simply reflect the demands placed upon us by the world market.

Just how is the "gross world product" calculated, and by whom? How can there be a percentage of a total that cannot be accurately calculated? More economic pseudo-science. Fine. If so many people are willing to buy and invest in our products, why are we buying so much of Asia's? And exactly what "work" are we doing? Even Boeing and GM no longer build the majority of their products here, so when you say 20% of the goods consumed by the world, you really must mean more like 10% or less. Services, too -- unless the customer service guy I just called from AMERICAN Express is somehow practicing his Bangalore twang for shits and giggles.

As for being the "backbone of world economic growth", have you looked at the exchange rate for dollars lately? It seems to me that this "backbone" you mention isn't in St. Louis, it's in Shanghai. I'm not happy about that, but believe it when I tell you corporations are. Hell, some of them don't even incorporate in the US in order to avoid paying taxes as a function of being a good, American company contributing to the inventions you quoted as statistics.

The US is doing absolutely nothing wrong. We're simply the best at what we do, and we have been rewarded for it by having one of the highest standards of living on Earth. The US is the strongest part of the world economy, and we deservedly reap the rewards of globalization.

The best at what we do? And what is that, exactly? It isn't manufacturing, sorry. It isn't education, health care, income equality, feeding everyone or doing ANYthing but amusing ourselves and the world. You want to talk entertainment, then yes, you have a point. I suppose that counts as a service.

The period of time that the US "deserved" its highest standard of living badge has been over for over a decade, if not longer. We pollute a hell of a lot more per person than any other nation, and our corporations' interest aren't served by changing that any time soon. Check out URL="http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/8Comparison.htm"]Where We Stand[/URL] from fifteen years ago.

This sense of entitlement to the degradation of the rest of the world at our expense is piggish and obnoxious.

Personal insults.

Always a great way to start the day.

Only if you take them personally. I'm referring to the automatic assumtion that anyone with anything even remotely negative to say about the US is jealous. That's the behavior of twelve-year-old.

ppfftt... Globalism is for those who can't do anything for themselves.

Really? It's also for those who wish to exploit the as-yet unexploited, as US corporations do with the full knowledge and blessing of our government. Why else would companies seek to privatize other nations' infrastructure, such as the power and water in Bolivia? (from Blowback by Chalmers Johnson)

Got an example?

Of the US going out of its way to bomb brown folks sitting on "our" oil? You mean besides Iraq and Iran? Or being aggressively demanding toward those governments who aren't free and easy with their oil, like Venezuela? Or ignoring insane human rights violations in countries who ARE oil-friendly with the US, like Saudi Arabia and Indonesia?

We are not on this planet to serve at the beck and call of other nations.

Nope. Just Saudi Arabia, Israel and a few fortunate others.

When this overweight guy has provided the defense of the office for 30 years without asking for anything in return, has saved the office from hostile takeovers twice in one week, has provided advancements in science and technology to make running the office easier and more efficient and provides most of the food for the office, I think I'd let him boast a bit.

I'll assume that you're alluding to -- well the "defense of the office for 30 years" is complete horseshit if you mean the cold war. "Hostile takeovers" is probably the two World Wars -- WWI, no, not really. Wilson had to be pulled into that one kicking and screaming and the US helped sow the seeds for WWII by tacit agreement with Versailles and the humiliation of Germany. As for WWII itself, once the US finally entered, yes, you'd score points for a correct analogy there -- however, I'd look into US policies toward Japan in the decades before Pearl Harmbo before I crowed too loudly.

As usual among my countrymen, you have grossly oversimplified. Which, I suppose, you could claim as your right as an American -- and that would only prove my point.

Don't for an instant presume to dictate to me what I do or do not know. you aren't qualified.

Sorry, that's a convention around here. I just thought I'd let you have your ration of it, as it seems to happen to me with regularity. I've come to the conclusion that it's more a figure of speech than an actual attempt to dictate anything.

To be frank, is there a worse time to be an American? With the oft-overpublicized war in Iraq, terrorism in major parts of the democratic world blamed on the war, angry mobs in dozens of countries protesting against us, an Axis of Evil that infuriates others, a standoff with North Korea and now Iran about nuclear arms, and people globally burning effegies of Bush, is there a worse time to be American?

Yep. Being an American would have really sucked when the white man turned up with guns and smallpox and took your land off you.

I know it's not what you meant, but it had to be said. Something similar happened to the native Australians, so this is a mea culpa too.

And yes, a lot of the world is jealous of us. Moreover, in a lot of cases, that jealousy masks envy. Most of the world wants to be like us. Why do you think it is that so many people literally risk their lives in order to get to this country?
The people who criticise the USA aren't the same people who are trying to move there.

I would have to say that the Civil War would suck if you lived in a border state

And have been conquered in 1812, split in 1861, immensely inconvenienced in 1916, really buggered in 1941 or greatly bothered in 1946?

I meant lately, in these past few years