NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/03/congressman.quran.ap/index.html

Not just any Quran. Thomas Jefferson's Quran. Nice move. The neoconservatives are smacking their foreheads going, "Ah! Son of a bitch!"

:p

What would we do without the ghost of Thomas Jefferson to guide us?

I think using TJ's Quran was a rather nice touch.

Don't think I ever used the thumbs up thingie, but this deserved it. Excellent thinking.

Good for Ellison, he did exactly what he should've, don't rise to the bait and let the bigots ilk reveal itself.

Saw that on AOL, the "Post Your Thoughts" boards over there were going crazy, calling the man all sorts of names and just carrying on in general about how horrible this is. We get nasty here sometimes but those people ... :eek:

I'm glad it worked out well and yes, using Jefferson's Quran was a master-stroke.

I'm waiting for all of those "separation of church and state" types to suggest that we do away with the "swearing in" on religious books and making oaths to God or Allah or the Flying Spaghetti Monster...

Saw that on AOL, the "Post Your Thoughts" boards over there were going crazy, calling the man all sorts of names and just carrying on in general about how horrible this is. We get nasty here sometimes but those people

The AOL message boards are the blackest pits of virulent racism in America.

I'm waiting for all of those "separation of church and state" types to suggest that we do away with the "swearing in" on religious books and making oaths to God or Allah or the Flying Spaghetti Monster...

Why? It's been said hundreds of times. There's even a bit in the constitution about how there can be no religious requirement to hold public office, which making a vow on a bible would appear to violate.

I'm waiting for all of those "separation of church and state" types to suggest that we do away with the "swearing in" on religious books and making oaths to God or Allah or the Flying Spaghetti Monster...

Hi. Why don't we do away with all this swearing in on religious books? It is stupid.

The AOL message boards are the blackest pits of virulent racism in America.

You mean, "African American pits".

I'm waiting for all of those "separation of church and state" types to suggest that we do away with the "swearing in" on religious books and making oaths to God or Allah or the Flying Spaghetti Monster...

Why? I believe in separation of C&S, but a person should swear his oaths on what he believes in, whatever that should happen to be.

For instance, I would have to affirm, upon my sacred honour. The Christy fanatics would be spitting chips...

Fucking owned.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/03/congressman.quran.ap/index.html

Not just any Quran. Thomas Jefferson's Quran. Nice move. The neoconservatives are smacking their foreheads going, "Ah! Son of a bitch!"

:p

Checkmate. Beautifully played.:p

You mean, "African American pits".

Wouldn't that be "African Americanest" pits?

I think :D about covers what I would say.

Why? It's been said hundreds of times. There's even a bit in the constitution about how there can be no religious requirement to hold public office, which making a vow on a bible would appear to violate.

But swearing in on a holy book is only an optional ceremonial bit. There's no requirement that it be so, as was evidenced by George H.W. Bush when he was sworn in without the use of a Bible or anything so similar.

Ah, and Article VI, clause 3 says, "The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." The President, too, may "affirm" rather than "swear" in his oath of office.

This was done, I believe, because there were people who, while quite devout, would not take an oath upon the Bible. The Quakers, I think, will not swear, feeling that it is taking the Lord's name in vain.

Wouldn't that be "African Americanest" pits?

Yes... I failed.

Saw that on AOL, the "Post Your Thoughts" boards over there were going crazy, calling the man all sorts of names and just carrying on in general about how horrible this is. We get nasty here sometimes but those people ... :eek:

I'm glad it worked out well and yes, using Jefferson's Quran was a master-stroke.

I'm bored and have nothing better to do this afternoon.

mind posting a link?

I see very little how Thomas Jeferson owning a Quran makes any diffrence about anything? This seems a bit of a non story to me.

But swearing in on a holy book is only an optional ceremonial bit. There's no requirement that it be so, as was evidenced by George H.W. Bush when he was sworn in without the use of a Bible or anything so similar.

John Adams used a law book and I believe a Jewish congresswoman elected this year used a Torah to be sworn in on(or was it a Tanakh?)

I see very little how Thomas Jeferson owning a Quran makes any diffrence about anything? This seems a bit of a non story to me.

Welcome to NSG! :D

I see very little how Thomas Jeferson owning a Quran makes any diffrence about anything? This seems a bit of a non story to me.

People were saying that using a Quran to swear in was unamerican and was against America's judeo-christian culture, using TJ's Quran reminds us of America's religiously free culture.

I'm waiting for all of those "separation of church and state" types to suggest that we do away with the "swearing in" on religious books and making oaths to God or Allah or the Flying Spaghetti Monster...

How about the constitution of the USA ?
They are after all supposed to value that.

People were saying that using a Quran to swear in was unamerican and was against America's judeo-christian culture, using TJ's Quran reminds us of America's religiously free culture.

That and the irony of the use of symbolisim rocks.

I see very little how Thomas Jeferson owning a Quran makes any diffrence about anything? This seems a bit of a non story to me.

a bunch of idiots were shitting themselves about how swearing in on a Quran was "unamerican" and that this nation was "founded on the christian tradition" and that the founding fathers were all christians who wanted the bible to be used in the ceremony.

Swearing in on Jefferson's Quran pretty much shuts that argument up.

How about the constitution of the USA ?
They are after all supposed to value that.

I'd use a Spiderman comic book.

I see very little how Thomas Jeferson owning a Quran makes any diffrence about anything? This seems a bit of a non story to me.

It's traditional to use not just any bible for swearing-in ceremonies in the US, but one with some history behind it (owned by a President, a prominent Governor or other official, or other major historical personage). It being Jefferson's Qu'ran not only follows that form, but also rubs the religious right's nose in the fact that they're far from anything the Founding Fathers would ever have supported.

John Adams used a law book and I believe a Jewish congresswoman elected this year used a Torah to be sworn in on(or was it a Tanakh?)

No clue, although...

If elected, I'd probably spring for Gibbon's The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, and I wouldn't just have it be one volume, I'd get a stack of all six.

I'd use a Spiderman comic book.

"With great power comes great responsibility" ?
Most acceptable methinks.

I think I'd swear in on the latest issue of Maxim magazine

"With great power comes great responsibility" ?
Most acceptable methinks.

Exactly. I was thinking either that or a midget's forehead.

Exactly. I was thinking either that or a midget's forehead.

I'm sticking with Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.

All six volumes.

I want to be sworn in, holding my own hardon.

That way, witnesses will say, "Gosh, he's got some balls..."

I'm sticking with Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.

All six volumes.

Why not balance them on a midget's forehead?

I'm bored and have nothing better to do this afternoon.

mind posting a link?

Sure ... (http://messageboards.aol.com/aol/en_us/articles.php?boardId=564958&func=3&channel=News+AOL+Managed&refresh=true)

Why not balance them on a midget's forehead?

That would be beyond amazing.

Let's run for Congress, and when we win, we can share the midget!

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/03/congressman.quran.ap/index.html

Not just any Quran. Thomas Jefferson's Quran. Nice move. The neoconservatives are smacking their foreheads going, "Ah! Son of a bitch!"

:p
I wish you would distinguish between the moral and religious bigots that have taken over our party and the one or two of us that still believe in individual responsibility and small federal governments.

and I believe the sound is more like "Doh"

I'm sticking with Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.

All six volumes.

A printout of Wikipedia, all of Wikipedia

Exactly. I was thinking either that or a midget's forehead.

Hmm. I might go for the breasts of a lady of my choosing.

I would swear up Douglas Copeland's 'JPod'.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/03/congressman.quran.ap/index.html

Not just any Quran. Thomas Jefferson's Quran. Nice move. The neoconservatives are smacking their foreheads going, "Ah! Son of a bitch!"

:p

If I didn't think swearing on any "Holy" Book was stupid to begin with, I would be eminently pleased by this. I'm pleased by the Jefferson touch at the very least.

I wish you would distinguish between the moral and religious bigots that have taken over our party and the one or two of us that still believe in individual responsibility and small federal governments.

and I believe the sound is more like "Doh"

These days I believe you would be called a RINO and invited out of the Grand Old Party. It's rather too bad. I was thinking about how far the Republican Party has gone during the obsequies for Gerry Ford. Had he not been President, and therefore carried a glamor beyond anything a mere member of the House has, no one in the current Administration would have paid any heed to anything he said. And certainly not attended his funeral.

That would be beyond amazing.

Let's run for Congress, and when we win, we can share the midget!

Excellent.

Also, I found this. Oh, Ingersoll - you are a man I could gay it up with:

"Churches are becoming political organizations....
It probably will not be long until the churches will divide as sharply upon political, as upon theological questions; and when that day comes, if there are not liberals enough to hold the balance of power, this Government will be destroyed. The liberty of man is not safe in the hands of any church. Wherever the Bible and sword are in partnership, man is a slave.

All laws for the purpose of making man worship God, are born of the same spirit that kindled the fires of the auto da fe, and lovingly built the dungeons of the Inquisition. All laws defining and punishing blasphemy—making it a crime to give your honest ideas about the Bible, or to laugh at the ignorance of the ancient Jews, or to enjoy yourself on the Sabbath, or to give your opinion of Jehovah, were passed by impudent bigots, and should be at once repealed by honest men. An infinite God ought to be able to protect himself, without going in partnership with State Legislatures. Certainly he ought not so to act that laws become necessary to keep him from being laughed at. No one thinks of protecting Shakespeare from ridicule, by the threat of fine and imprisonment. It strikes me that God might write a book that would not necessarily excite the laughter of his children. In fact, I think it would be safe to say that a real God could produce a work that would excite the admiration of mankind. Surely politicians could be better employed than in passing laws to protect the literary reputation of the Jewish God."
—Some Mistakes of Moses

I see very little how Thomas Jeferson owning a Quran makes any diffrence about anything? This seems a bit of a non story to me.

The point is that a certain Republican congressman belittled Ellision and said pretty much "he should use the damn bible like everyone else." He then also said "we need to keep these muslims from coming into our country and holding elected office or else we're going to die." You know the typical fear and smear bullshit in the GOP playbook ala Karl Rove. That's why this is a story and reminded people that our founders believed in religious freedom makes a damn good statment. You've been owned.

Sure ... (http://messageboards.aol.com/aol/en_us/articles.php?boardId=564958&func=3&channel=News+AOL+Managed&refresh=true)

I feel retarded.

I feel retarded.

Never underestimate the power of human stupidity?

Let us not forget that Jefferson was a slave owner. By swearing on Jefferson's Koran this guy is endorsing slavery, which is permitted in Islam. You may think that this is illogical islamophobic bullshit, and it is, but I'm posting it anyway.

Let us not forget that Jefferson was a slave owner. By swearing on Jefferson's Koran this guy is endorsing slavery, which is permitted in Islam. You may think that this is illogical islamophobic bullshit, and it is, but I'm posting it anyway.

He also believed in the sexual abuse of slaves.

I feel retarded.

I warned you, those people will suck the intelligence out of your brains if you stay there for any length of time.

He also believed in the sexual abuse of slaves.

Which is also legal under Islamic law. I'm telling ya, we'll be living in a Muslim nation in no time now.

Let us not forget that Jefferson was a slave owner. By swearing on Jefferson's Koran this guy is endorsing slavery, which is permitted in Islam. You may think that this is illogical islamophobic bullshit, and it is, but I'm posting it anyway.

Jefferson also started the rumor that masturbation gives you hairy palms and can make a man go blind.

Which is also legal under Islamic law. I'm telling ya, we'll be living in a Muslim nation in no time now.

With perks like that, it is inevitable.

Jefferson also started the rumor that masturbation gives you hairy palms and can make a man go blind.

Well, at least he grew hemp and opium poppies. He wasn't all bad.

Let us not forget that Jefferson was a slave owner. By swearing on Jefferson's Koran this guy is endorsing slavery, which is permitted in Islam. You may think that this is illogical islamophobic bullshit, and it is, but I'm posting it anyway.

He also believed in the sexual abuse of slaves.

All true, but he's also the patron saint of small government and individual responsibility, wrote the Declaration, and using his copy of the Quran is just one way of getting in the face of his supposed political descendants, something they needed, especially the guy whose House district includes Jefferson's home.

Jefferson also started the rumor that masturbation gives you hairy palms and can make a man go blind.

I thought it was JS Bach who started that rumor.

Which is also legal under Islamic law. I'm telling ya, we'll be living in a Muslim nation in no time now.

Gee, I hope I can afford some good looking slaves...

When the possibility of a poor, muslim, black, disabled, woman being elected as President of the USA is not considered to be anything unusual, then maybe I'll applaud and consider the USA a truely decent, democratic nation.
Other than that - it is the first step.....
Go USA.

I thought it was JS Bach who started that rumor.

Who do you think started that rumor?

Don't think I ever used the thumbs up thingie, but this deserved it. Excellent thinking.

Indeed. Very neat.

Although I think it's a shame to use any religious book in a supposedly secular country.

Who do you think started that rumor?

It is I, Cthulu!

Who do you think started that rumor?

Ah haaaa ... And now I think on it, Bach had what? fifteen, sixteen kids? He couldn't have spent that much time masturbating, not enough to go blind, anyway. Although, if Frau Bach was pregnant most of the time ... okay, I need to go get lunch and not think about Bach's sex life.

I'd use a Spiderman comic book.

I approve. :)

I'd put my hand on Petra Nemcova (http://www.petra-nemcova.info/gallery/petra_nemcova_005.jpg) to swear in. :)

The AOL message boards are the blackest pits of virulent racism in America.
Was that pun intentional? ;)

People were saying that using a Quran to swear in was unamerican and was against America's judeo-christian culture, using TJ's Quran reminds us of America's religiously free culture.
America's "judeo-christian" culture? Seriously, that's just political correctness. Nobody, especially not conservatives, would say that before the Holocaust. How much influence has Judaism had over American culture? Very little I imagine.

The Republican who used his Islamic religion to highlight the "dangers of immigration" was a dumbass too. Ellison is not an immigrant. Mexicans aren't Muslims either.

I wish you would distinguish between the moral and religious bigots that have taken over our party and the one or two of us that still believe in individual responsibility and small federal governments.
It's not really your party any longer now, is it?

A printout of Wikipedia, all of Wikipedia
What, just to prove that you hate the rainforests? :D

using his copy of the Quran is just one way of getting in the face of his supposed political descendants, something they needed, especially the guy whose House district includes Jefferson's home.
Isn't Jefferson always viewed as the most liberal of the founders?

Ah haaaa ... And now I think on it, Bach had what? fifteen, sixteen kids? He couldn't have spent that much time masturbating, not enough to go blind, anyway. Although, if Frau Bach was pregnant most of the time ... okay, I need to go get lunch and not think about Bach's sex life.

This thread has made me think of things that will surely give me nightmares tonight...

Never underestimate the power of human stupidity?

some inbred on there was arguing that 'Christian Muslims' believe in the New Testament and therefore he should swear on it!!

My IQ fell by 100 reading that place.

some inbred on there was arguing that 'Christian Muslims' believe in the New Testament and therefore he should swear on it!!

My IQ fell by 100 reading that place.

I just forgot how to do long division. Thanks...

Isn't Jefferson always viewed as the most liberal of the founders?



http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/sprachlos/speechless-smiley-009.gif

Isn't Jefferson always viewed as the most liberal of the founders?

Sure, and someone could probably make a case for him being equally conservative. That's the advantage of 200 years or more passing, you can claim whatever you want and if someone says "I don't think so," you just say they're misinterpreting the evidence. Or misquoting you, as you did just now. :p

Although I think it's a shame to use any religious book in a supposedly secular country.

It's a tradition, designed to symbolize how deeply important you feel the oath you are taking to be, as well as showing a portion of your own character. I find nothing wrong with swearing on a religious book, although I'd probably spring for something more secular.

Indeed. Very neat.

Although I think it's a shame to use any religious book in a supposedly secular country.

Why not? Its their choice

Why not? Its their choice

I've always wondered about that. Are government employees subject to the separation of church and state? Or do they count as private citizens?

Why? It's been said hundreds of times. There's even a bit in the constitution about how there can be no religious requirement to hold public office, which making a vow on a bible would appear to violate.

As said 10,000 times in the past, the swearing in on a bible is only a photo-op done after the official swearing in, which does not include the bible at all. So really, the government is not using a religious text for the oath, individual people do it for a nice little picture.

Which is why I don't see why this is making a big deal then, because it's not even an official oath.

That being said:

Minnesota, we elected the first Muslim to Congress! Woot! Partay! Tolerance all de way!

Why not? Its their choice

You must remember that Ariddia comes from a country that believes the government can quash religious expressions in public life, rather unlike the US.

These days I believe you would be called a RINO and invited out of the Grand Old Party. It's rather too bad. I was thinking about how far the Republican Party has gone during the obsequies for Gerry Ford. Had he not been President, and therefore carried a glamor beyond anything a mere member of the House has, no one in the current Administration would have paid any heed to anything he said. And certainly not attended his funeral.

Nice word. Thanks for improving my vocabulary.

I think RINOs are the guys who get elected as Republicans but vote with the Democrats, as Jumpin' Jim Jeffords used to do before he jumped. I don't think I could ever serve in Congress -- I just can't do the things that are needed to get elected, in the first place.

America's "judeo-christian" culture? Seriously, that's just political correctness. Nobody, especially not conservatives, would say that before the Holocaust. How much influence has Judaism had over American culture? Very little I imagine.


Very little. Same as Christianity. If you look closely there is pretty much one thing which has influenced American culture(And a great deal of the Constitution, and even the Revolution). That one thing starts with "G" and ends in "old", or more precisely this little thing called "money". That pretty much the only reason we started the Revolution, and the biggest factor that has shaped our society, our politics, and how we function.


The Republican who used his Islamic religion to highlight the "dangers of immigration" was a dumbass too. Ellison is not an immigrant. Mexicans aren't Muslims either.


Yeah, that always confused me as well.


It's not really your party any longer now, is it?

Modern day republicans have defaced the Republican party. Hell, when Newt Ginrich is saying that these people have Screwed the Republican party, and conservatives, you know something is up.


Isn't Jefferson always viewed as the most liberal of the founders?

Possibly the most liberal President in the history of the United States(Albeit compromising on a few important Hamiltonian ideals).

I wish you would distinguish between the moral and religious bigots that have taken over our party and the one or two of us that still believe in individual responsibility and small federal governments.

It's not really your party any longer now, is it?

Nope, nothing is the way it used to be and I'm surprised that the large number of disenchanted Democrats and Republicans don't do something about it. There are a lot of potential members of a middle ground party.

Nice word. Thanks for improving my vocabulary.

I think RINOs are the guys who get elected as Republicans but vote with the Democrats, as Jumpin' Jim Jeffords used to do before he jumped. I don't think I could ever serve in Congress -- I just can't do the things that are needed to get elected, in the first place.

I agree about the hoop-jumping and soul-selling required to get elected, I couldn't do it either.

I suppose you could call a party-jumper that you describe a RINO, but my impression was that the acronym was devised as a pejorative to use against moderate and liberal Republicans during the late 80s and early 90s when the right wing took over the party as a whole. Not that I'm all that familiar with the recent history of the Republican Party.

Wow, Americans were more open back then to other cultures and religions :p. How come backward and arrogant people get more media attention? Why do the Republicans always play the "the white Christian America is under attack" scenarios for every topic on their agendas?

Wow, Americans were more open back then to other cultures and religions :p. How come backward and arrogant people get more media attention? Why do the Republicans always play the "the white Christian America is under attack" scenarios for every topic on their agendas?

because promulgating that belief IS their agenda.

I agree about the hoop-jumping and soul-selling required to get elected, I couldn't do it either.

I suppose you could call a party-jumper that you describe a RINO, but my impression was that the acronym was devised as a pejorative to use against moderate and liberal Republicans during the late 80s and early 90s when the right wing took over the party as a whole. Not that I'm all that familiar with the recent history of the Republican Party.

I think we're saying the same things. You're just doing a much better job of it. The way the parties court extremists to stay in power just leaves me with such a bad feeling for the current state of American politics. I don't know if that makes me a moderate or liberal 'conservative' but I certainly don't belong in the Republican party.

because promulgating that belief IS their agenda.

But I'm not even white nor am I a Christian, but MAN, they're so convincing :D. They maybe liars and deceivers, but they sure work hard at it, and that is throwing more lies at us. I've noticed that they're getting a bit sloppy at their lies though, because, even their ferverent supporters are now waking up, "Hey, were not winning Iraq this way, keep the course, whaddya mean keep the course?"

Wow, Americans were more open back then to other cultures and religions :p. How come backward and arrogant people get more media attention? Why do the Republicans always play the "the white Christian America is under attack" scenarios for every topic on their agendas?
Because fear is an excellent way of getting people to vote for you. It's sad, but it is the way things have been going in this country lately.

I think we're saying the same things. You're just doing a much better job of it. The way the parties court extremists to stay in power just leaves me with such a bad feeling for the current state of American politics. I don't know if that makes me a moderate or liberal 'conservative' but I certainly don't belong in the Republican party.

I do think we agree. I suppose they court extremists because extremists will get out there and work, hand out flyers, attend rallies, and give money, whereas moderates are probably less pissed off about the issues. In a way, you have to pump an awful lot of energy into the moderates in your party in order to get them moving, while extremists are probably already moving on their own, you just need to guide them.

But I'm not even white nor am I a Christian, but MAN, they're so convincing :D. They maybe liars and deceivers, but they sure work hard at it, and that is throwing more lies at us. I've noticed that they're getting a bit sloppy at their lies though, because, even their ferverent supporters are now waking up, "Hey, were not winning Iraq this way, keep the course, whaddya mean keep the course?"

They have a man crying who is nailed to a stick. I mean... you don't get better sympathy votes than that.

Sworn in on the Quran? So this guy really means what he swears?

But it seems Americans are getting back on their feet and voting for more credible and accountable candidates. Americans are now more in tune to what's going on outside America (the global issues), terrorism, civil wars in Africa (Darfur, Somalia), war in Iraq, emergence of Asian economic powers (China and India), relations with Islam and Christianity and other religions as well, Global warming, poverty, AIDS (both in developing and developed countries) and so on. So the next presidential election will be taken much more seriously for Americans and non-Americans in 2008 and I'm not saying the 2004 elections was not a heated one.

Nope, nothing is the way it used to be and I'm surprised that the large number of disenchanted Democrats and Republicans don't do something about it. There are a lot of potential members of a middle ground party.
How can there be a "middle ground" between two parties that are so similar?


Modern day republicans have defaced the Republican party. Hell, when Newt Ginrich is saying that these people have Screwed the Republican party, and conservatives, you know something is up.
Has the Republican party ever been that great? Let's not look through rose-tinted glasses here.

What obligates conservatives to support Republicans? In any case, most of them have done so. Iraq war and all.

How can there be a "middle ground" between two parties that are so similar?

Most Americans seem to be under the illusion that Democrats and Republicans are on completely opposite ends of the political spectrum.

Never underestimate the power of human stupidity?

I find it utterly insane that the United States government would even consider allowing anyone to be sworn into a government office with the Koran. It boggles my mind. Is everyone else in the world really this stupid?

Kate at 3:45PM on Jan 3rd 2007

:headbang:

Most Americans seem to be under the illusion that Democrats and Republicans are on completely opposite ends of the political spectrum.

I blame the people who painted the Democrats as far-left and liberal.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/03/congressman.quran.ap/index.html

Not just any Quran. Thomas Jefferson's Quran. Nice move. The neoconservatives are smacking their foreheads going, "Ah! Son of a bitch!"

:p

I'm sure Jefferson's library included plenty of volumes on savages' myths and superstitions.

Prediction: when the shit hits the fan, the first loyalty of this apostate will prove not to be to the United States.

I'm sure Jefferson's library included plenty of volumes on savages' myths and superstitions.

Prediction: when the shit hits the fan, the first loyalty of this apostate will prove not to be to the United States.

McCarthaliscious.

I'm sure Jefferson's library included plenty of volumes on savages' myths and superstitions.

Prediction: when the shit hits the fan, the first loyalty of this apostate will prove not to be to the United States.


"apostate" to what? baby Jesus? Get a life.

I'm sure Jefferson's library included plenty of volumes on savages' myths and superstitions.

Prediction: when the shit hits the fan, the first loyalty of this apostate will prove not to be to the United States.I'm sure he had a Bible or two on his shelf, yes.

McCarthaliscious.That's a lovely term. Mind if I use it in the future?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/03/congressman.quran.ap/index.html

Not just any Quran. Thomas Jefferson's Quran. Nice move. The neoconservatives are smacking their foreheads going, "Ah! Son of a bitch!"

:p

Bwaaahaha!!!

You made a great day even better! LOLOL

Oh that is class! LOLOL

That's a lovely term. Mind if I use it in the future?

Please do.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/03/congressman.quran.ap/index.html

Not just any Quran. Thomas Jefferson's Quran. Nice move. The neoconservatives are smacking their foreheads going, "Ah! Son of a bitch!"

:p

I salute his courage. I tell you, if/when I take an oath to political office, I'll insist on swearing upon the Constitution.

Not just any Quran. Thomas Jefferson's Quran.

Let the records show that Thomas Jefferson, like most other major figures in US history, was a dick.

If I ever get reach a post that requires a sworn oath, I'll swear it on Clausewitz's On War.

I wanna get sworn in on either Moby Dick, the Origin of the Species, or the Kama Sutra if I'm ever elected. That'll piss people off nice and good.

I wanna get sworn in on either Moby Dick, the Origin of the Species, or the Kama Sutra if I'm ever elected. That'll piss people off nice and good.

Better yet, swear upon the Origin of Moby's Kama Sutra Dick Species.

McCarthaliscious.

Ha, I love that. Very very much. Added to the ol' vocab bank.

Better yet, swear upon the Origin of Moby's Kama Sutra Dick Species.

...

I'd kinda like to read that book...

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/03/congressman.quran.ap/index.html

Not just any Quran. Thomas Jefferson's Quran. Nice move. The neoconservatives are smacking their foreheads going, "Ah! Son of a bitch!"

:p

The really funny thing about all the contraversy surrounding this "swearing in on the Quran," is that Congressmen don't get sworn in with holy books. They just raise their hands and recite the pledge. The whole "sworn in on a Bible" thing is just for publicity shots later and has no official place in the ceremony. It would be like a Catholic getting a priest to sanctify his office, or John Ashcroft annointing himself with Crisco before taking his oath of office.

Better yet, swear upon the Origin of Moby's Kama Sutra Dick Species.

Don't be stupid. It's Moby's Dick Sutra. :D There are many Sutras and Kama is only one of them. If Zarakon ever gets into high office, I'll see what I can do about Moby's Dick Sutra being another of them.

Let the records show that Thomas Jefferson, like most other major figures in US history, was a dick.

If I ever get reach a post that requires a sworn oath, I'll swear it on Causewitz's On War.

You mean Clausewitz?

I'd swear on a porno script.

A masterful stroke, using Jefferson's Quran.

And were I to be elected to public office, I would be sworn in on a Tanach with a copy of the Constitution tucked between the pages.

And should any bigoted politician complain about it, I will arrange for my supporters to cover his house in copies of the First Amendment.

And were I to be elected to public office, I would be sworn in on a Tanach with a copy of the Constitution tucked between the pages.

And should any bigoted politician complain about it, I will arrange for my supporters to cover his house in copies of the First Amendment.

Someone did swear in on either a Tanach or a Torah this election, fortunately no one seemed to care.

They would have used a Tanach (http://levinejudaica.com/catalog/images/tanakh%20full%20size%20artsc%20stone.jpg). A Torah (http://geohistech.free.fr/Hebreux/Matos/Torah%203.jpg) is a scroll, and you shouldn't touch the scroll directly. Hence, it is unsuitable for swearing in on.

It's also heavy.

Now that's pure class, right there. I doff my proverbial hat.

I'd use a Spiderman comic book.
Ahh...but which one?
I'd use the one where the Green Goblin dies.

Failing that, a Mr.Men book

You mean, "African American pits".
LOL.

---------
I say good on him, swearing oath is a serious thing,perhaps any religious text relevant to you or something that you stand for should be used.

When one swears it is to tel the truth, to be decent, represent yourself and those that elected you.

I don't think it should be joked with, and i don't see a problem with what this guy has done.

What matters is he is true and decent while representing the people that put him in their.

The whole swearing in thing is silly and archaic. Plenty of fine institutions, the royal navy for example, do perfectly well without it. I really don't see the point in it. It's nothing more than an excuse for these vapid piles of clothes to engage in self-promotion and pompous cock-knockery.

Meanwhile, does anyone know what the two buddhists members of congress got sworn in on?

Meanwhile, does anyone know what the two buddhists members of congress got sworn in on?

If anything it would be the Tripitaka, IIRC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripitaka

Sure ... (http://messageboards.aol.com/aol/en_us/articles.php?boardId=564958&func=3&channel=News+AOL+Managed&refresh=true)

OMG, I can honestly say that they are all retarded in there.

If anything it would be the Tripitaka, IIRC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripitaka

I'm having a flashback to that "Monkey" tv show. Man I loved that show when I was a kid.

Saw that on AOL, the "Post Your Thoughts" boards over there were going crazy, calling the man all sorts of names and just carrying on in general about how horrible this is. We get nasty here sometimes but those people ... :eek:

I'm glad it worked out well and yes, using Jefferson's Quran was a master-stroke.I saw the same folks, it appears. If anyone can make you embarassed to be an American, those would be the folks.

I'm having a flashback to that "Monkey" tv show. Man I loved that show when I was a kid.
Maybe the two Buddhists got sworn in holding a DVD copy of that show.

I'm having a flashback to that "Monkey" tv show. Man I loved that show when I was a kid.

I'm recalling all the twits who moaned about the threat to the american culture posed by Keith Ellison, I don't see them pointing their fingers at the two buddhists who got elected.

Maybe the two Buddhists got sworn in holding a DVD copy of that show.

That would be my choice.

I'm recalling all the twits who moaned about the threat to the american culture posed by Keith Ellison, I don't see them pointing their fingers at the two buddhists who got elected.

Well, it's hard to get worked up about buddhists. (Unless you live in Sri-lanka, or you are the red chinese).

I'm waiting for an atheist congressman. Apparently that is outright banned.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/03/congressman.quran.ap/index.html

Not just any Quran. Thomas Jefferson's Quran. Nice move. The neoconservatives are smacking their foreheads going, "Ah! Son of a bitch!"

:p

Good.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/03/congressman.quran.ap/index.html

Not just any Quran. Thomas Jefferson's Quran. Nice move. The neoconservatives are smacking their foreheads going, "Ah! Son of a bitch!"

:p

Nice! (http://www.osubookstore.com/images/Owned!.jpg)

Oddly enough, I read my Qur'an today! Surahs 111-114! It must be an evil Islamic scandal(though im not) to destroy the West and kill the christians(which i am). I blame all the liberals for this...for some reason..killing our country!!!!

:mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :gundge: :gundge: :sniper:

-head explodes-

Awesome stuff there. Love it.

The whole swearing in thing is silly and archaic. Plenty of fine institutions, the royal navy for example, do perfectly well without it. I really don't see the point in it. It's nothing more than an excuse for these vapid piles of clothes to engage in self-promotion and pompous cock-knockery.

Meanwhile, does anyone know what the two buddhists members of congress got sworn in on?
Buddhists?
Would they be effective in a U.S. government?

Buddhists?
Would they be effective in a U.S. government?

That depends on whether their beliefs influence their actions, but if they do, it'd be an interesting government I'd say.

The only way it'd be more interesting would be if Lunatic Goofballs was elected president.

I for one would swear on the internets, prefferably a printout of it, though just one tube would suffice. That or a printout of my posting career on NSG.

I for one would swear on the internets, prefferably a printout of it, though just one tube would suffice. That or a printout of my posting career on NSG.

How about we go somewhere inbetween and print off all of NSG? As single posts. And then bind it.

To those who were against it you have just been:

http://www.theimperials.net/imphky07/images/owned.jpg

I'm sure Jefferson's library included plenty of volumes on savages' myths and superstitions.

Prediction: when the shit hits the fan, the first loyalty of this apostate will prove not to be to the United States.
"Apostate"? Since when was the US constitution the basis of a religion?

I also doubt your prediction, especially given that the guy is an American (not an immigrant) and not fundamentalist. Even that should surely reach your brain.

"apostate" to what? baby Jesus? Get a life.
No doubt Mitanni means his Orwellian cult of the US Government.

I'm sure he had a Bible or two on his shelf, yes.

Muslims and Christians aren't savages; can't you ever cease flaming us?

Muslims and Christians aren't savages; can't you ever cease flaming us?
I can see why you would focus on that, and I apologize for the perceived insult--I was referring more to the myths and superstitions section of New Mitanni's statement--the Bible and Qu'ran are both full of those.

I can see why you would focus on that, and I apologize for the perceived insult--I was referring more to the myths and superstitions section of New Mitanni's statement--the Bible and Qu'ran are both full of those.
Cool. Well, in any case I'm sure we can all agree about the idiocy of New Mitanni's "points".

"Apostate"? Since when was the US constitution the basis of a religion?

Ellison was baptized as a Catholic. At age 19, he renounced the true faith and pledged his allegiance to the Islamic creed. That, my friend, is apostasy.

And by the way, had the situation been reversed--had he born a Moslem in a Moslem-controlled nation, such as, say, Pakistan, or his new spiritual homeland of Saudi Arabia, and then converted to Catholicism--his life literally would have been in danger from those peace-loving, tolerant Moslems who consider leaving Islam for any other religion not only apostasy, but a capital offense.

I also doubt your prediction, especially given that the guy is an American (not an immigrant) and not fundamentalist. Even that should surely reach your brain.

It is irrelevant where he was born. The issue is where his loyalty lies. And the fact that he has renounced the true faith, and joined its enemies and the enemies of Western civilization, speaks volumes. Not to mention his association (of course, he denies membership) with the racist, anti-Semitic so-called "Nation of Islam."

I repeat my prediction: if it ever comes down to the United States vs. "the ummah", Keith bin Ellison will not side with the United States.

Cool. Well, in any case I'm sure we can all agree about the idiocy of New Mitanni's "points".

You referring to anyone's opinions as "idiocy" is the best laugh I've had so far today :p

It is irrelevant where he was born. The issue is where his loyalty lies. And the fact that he has renounced the true faith, and joined its enemies and the enemies of Western civilization, speaks volumes. Not to mention his association (of course, he denies membership) with the racist, anti-Semitic so-called "Nation of Islam."

I repeat my prediction: if it ever comes down to the United States vs. "the ummah", Keith bin Ellison will not side with the United States.

And so it comes out--again. For you, being American means being christian. Good thing the Constitution doesn't agree with you.

You referring to anyone's opinions as "idiocy" is the best laugh I've had so far today :p

If you believe in the literal accuracy of a book that's as full of myth and superstition as the Bible, then you're in no position to call anyone else an idiot.

Snip with "true faith" remarks and other unproven statements.

1- The true faith is ME. There is no higher authority than me. Bow down to me and you get saved. Ridiculous? You bet, but way less ridiculous than you claiming ownership of the truth. What are you, God? No, that would be Me.

2- You're just frothing from the mouth because Ellison played this so well you don't have any way to criticize him on this without showing the strong and unbased bias against his religion that you have.

3- Walk up to Ellison and tell that to his face. I dare you. You know what would happen? He'd humiliate you so toroughly and stylishly - as he did by using Jefferson's Quran - that neoconservatism would suffer yet another blow.

4- I told your church once, I told it twenty-five times, keep your church's hands out of the state. Freedom of religion is there for a reason, and I will not allow you to make the US into the theocracy you so want. So give it up.

5- Remember: There is no higher authority than me.

Here's a great example of Ellison's class. Ellison (http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/01/04/ellison-meets-goode/) goes up and introduces himself to Virgil Goode, the douchebag who New Mitanni thinks is the greatest politician in the US right now.

Here's a great example of Ellison's class. Ellison (http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/01/04/ellison-meets-goode/) goes up and introduces himself to Virgil Goode, the douchebag who New Mitanni thinks is the greatest politician in the US right now.Respect!

I saw the same folks, it appears. If anyone can make you embarassed to be an American, those would be the folks.
Ellison was baptized as a Catholic. At age 19, he renounced the true faith and pledged his allegiance to the Islamic creed. That, my friend, is apostasy.
Oh dear me, I seem to have quoted New Mitanni for no reason at all. Oh well, mistakes will happen I guess...


And by the way, had the situation been reversed--had he born a Moslem in a Moslem-controlled nation, such as, say, Pakistan, or his new spiritual homeland of Saudi Arabia, and then converted to Catholicism--his life literally would have been in danger from those peace-loving, tolerant Moslems who consider leaving Islam for any other religion not only apostasy, but a capital offense.

Instead he might be in danger from peace-loving patriots who see him as an apostate who has somehow sold out his country by converting to a new religion...


It is irrelevant where he was born. The issue is where his loyalty lies. And the fact that he has renounced the true faith, and joined its enemies and the enemies of Western civilization, speaks volumes.
"True faith"? :confused:

Oh, and thank God you're here to remind us how Islam is the enemy of western civilization. :rolleyes:


I repeat my prediction: if it ever comes down to the United States vs. "the ummah", Keith bin Ellison will not side with the United States.
Wooo, clever.

I predict that if it comes down to the United States Vs. the forces of intolerance, you will not be on the side of the United States.

Wooo, clever.

I predict that if it comes down to the United States Vs. the forces of intolerance, you will not be on the side of the United States.

Could be worse--he could have called him ALLAHson. Get it? ALLAH-son? I kill me.

Sel Appa has returned after a three-day ban that was lifted a bit late (two hours ago). Never post a video without thinking about the content first.

Anyway, my praise goes to him as the first Muslim, standing up to prejudice and changing the ridiculous tradition of swear on a Bible. I would never swear on any book. Good Luck and may many more Muslims and other religions be elected.

Sel Appa has returned after a three-day ban that was lifted a bit late (two hours ago). Never post a video without thinking about the content first.

Anyway, my praise goes to him as the first Muslim, standing up to prejudice and changing the ridiculous tradition of swear on a Bible. I would never swear on any book. Good Luck and may many more Muslims and other religions be elected.

Can you extend that to atheists as well? Just askin? ;)

Haven't read this whole thing but the fact is they don't use a Bible at the swearing in anyway. Just for the reelection pictures they send back home.

You must remember that Ariddia comes from a country that believes the government can quash religious expressions in public life, rather unlike the US.oh.. Aridia is from france?

I'm waiting for all of those "separation of church and state" types to suggest that we do away with the "swearing in" on religious books and making oaths to God or Allah or the Flying Spaghetti Monster...

As one of those types; it's not a requirement that you do.

However, some of those "religious types" would like a law that you have to.....

http://www.afa.net/aa112806_2.asp

Ellison was baptized as a Catholic. At age 19, he renounced the true faith and pledged his allegiance to the Islamic creed. That, my friend, is apostasy.

And by the way, had the situation been reversed--had he born a Moslem in a Moslem-controlled nation, such as, say, Pakistan, or his new spiritual homeland of Saudi Arabia, and then converted to Catholicism--his life literally would have been in danger from those peace-loving, tolerant Moslems who consider leaving Islam for any other religion not only apostasy, but a capital offense.



It is irrelevant where he was born. The issue is where his loyalty lies. And the fact that he has renounced the true faith, and joined its enemies and the enemies of Western civilization, speaks volumes. Not to mention his association (of course, he denies membership) with the racist, anti-Semitic so-called "Nation of Islam."

I repeat my prediction: if it ever comes down to the United States vs. "the ummah", Keith bin Ellison will not side with the United States.

I like you. You're silly. :)

Here's a great example of Ellison's class. Ellison (http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/01/04/ellison-meets-goode/) goes up and introduces himself to Virgil Goode, the douchebag who New Mitanni thinks is the greatest politician in the US right now.

And neither one burst into flames. Groovy. :)

Ellison was baptized as a Catholic. At age 19, he renounced the true faith and pledged his allegiance to the Islamic creed. That, my friend, is apostasy.

And by the way, had the situation been reversed--had he born a Moslem in a Moslem-controlled nation, such as, say, Pakistan, or his new spiritual homeland of Saudi Arabia, and then converted to Catholicism--his life literally would have been in danger from those peace-loving, tolerant Moslems who consider leaving Islam for any other religion not only apostasy, but a capital offense.
It is irrelevant where he was born. The issue is where his loyalty lies. And the fact that he has renounced the true faith, and joined its enemies and the enemies of Western civilization, speaks volumes. Not to mention his association (of course, he denies membership) with the racist, anti-Semitic so-called "Nation of Islam."

I repeat my prediction: if it ever comes down to the United States vs. "the ummah", Keith bin Ellison will not side with the United States.

Welcome to the new and improved world of McCarthyism, now we don't just confuse dissent with disloyalty, we confuse difference with disloyalty.

Let us not forget that Jefferson was a slave owner. By swearing on Jefferson's Koran this guy is endorsing slavery, which is permitted in Islam. You may think that this is illogical islamophobic bullshit, and it is, but I'm posting it anyway.

With that kind of logic the Confederacy ought to have been Islamic.

As one of those types; it's not a requirement that you do.

However, some of those "religious types" would like a law that you have to.....

http://www.afa.net/aa112806_2.aspEven more than that, the actual oath is not done using any sort of "holy book." Of course, since Deep Ki...I mean Eve Online never found a fact he couldn't distort, I can't say I'm surprised that you had to make the point clear.

Ellison was baptized as a Catholic. At age 19, he renounced the true faith and pledged his allegiance to the Islamic creed. That, my friend, is apostasy.
I know what apostasy is (funny coincidence, I am a Catholic). I just think it ironic that an atheist like you would use the term. And from your posts you seem to hold your government in the regard that most people hold their God, so I drew my conclusions from there.

And by the way, had the situation been reversed--had he born a Moslem in a Moslem-controlled nation, such as, say, Pakistan, or his new spiritual homeland of Saudi Arabia, and then converted to Catholicism--his life literally would have been in danger from those peace-loving, tolerant Moslems who consider leaving Islam for any other religion not only apostasy, but a capital offense.
And you think America should be like that?

It is irrelevant where he was born. The issue is where his loyalty lies. And the fact that he has renounced the true faith, and joined its enemies and the enemies of Western civilization, speaks volumes. Not to mention his association (of course, he denies membership) with the racist, anti-Semitic so-called "Nation of Islam."

I repeat my prediction: if it ever comes down to the United States vs. "the ummah", Keith bin Ellison will not side with the United States.
Despite the fact that thousands of Muslims have served, and continue to loyally serve the US government? Take, for example, the NS poster Marrakech.

And so it comes out--again. For you, being American means being christian. Good thing the Constitution doesn't agree with you.
I doubt that's his exact opinion, but he does seem to be itching to make America more like the 'utopia' that is Saudi Arabia.


4- I told your church once, I told it twenty-five times, keep your church's hands out of the state. Freedom of religion is there for a reason, and I will not allow you to make the US into the theocracy you so want. So give it up.

As a Brazilian, what are you going to do about it? Why should we non-Americans bother about what kind of internal policies America has? (well, short of genocide, etc)


Anyway, my praise goes to him as the first Muslim, standing up to prejudice and changing the ridiculous tradition of swear on a Bible.
He's not the first to use something other than a Bible. He's merely the first to use a Koran.

Even more than that, the actual oath is not done using any sort of "holy book." Of course, since Deep Ki...I mean Eve Online never found a fact he couldn't distort, I can't say I'm surprised that you had to make the point clear.

Crap that's him?????

I am rather slow to have missed that......

As a Brazilian, what are you going to do about it? Why should we non-Americans bother about what kind of internal policies America has? (well, short of genocide, etc)

Answer to your first question: I'll wing it. :D

Answer to your second question: Because said policies might dictate their EXTERNAL ones.

Answer to your second question: Because said policies might dictate their EXTERNAL ones.
Like what?

I'd swear in on the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, myself. ;)

Crap that's him?????

I am rather slow to have missed that......Has he admitted it publicly yet?

Like what?

Let's see: Country with a penchant for attempting to remodel the world to its image, plus zealots in power. How long would it be before said zealots decided to attack other countries?

I can't wait until I get to swear in as President. If the Koran pissed people Off, I think the Satanic bible might just cause a few heart attacks.:D

BTW: Big Jim P for President! At least I'll be an honest crook!