NationStates Jolt Archive

I am tired of seeing threads where people bash their, or other's, nations. So, I'd like to start a thread where one posts what they are most proud of about their country.

As an American, I will say that the US is the best nation on the planet compared to any other - past or present. What I am most proud of is our Constitution.

I like Smunkeeville. It's nice there.

The First Amendment. Though, at no point in our history has it ever been fully realized, it’s nice.

As a Canadian, I am most proud of our ability to not simply endure winter, but to excel in it.

Oh, and right now our boys over at the World Juniors.

What I am most proud of is our Constitution.
I'd say the principles behind the Constitution rather than the constitution itself are more important, but I'm British, and thus know nothing.

Britain, unfortunately, has no redeeming features. Oh well...

Britain, unfortunately, has no redeeming features. Oh well...

Wrong! Our patriotic tunes are ace. Much better than anyone else's, I reckon.

Also, the English and Scottish in union together? Two countries whose national sport was, for a long time, Killing Each Other With Pointy Swords? That's got to be worth something.

I'd say the principles behind the Constitution rather than the constitution itself are more important, but I'm British, and thus know nothing.

One could read up. We are a part of British history, too.

Britain, unfortunately, has no redeeming features. Oh well...

Oh, c'mon. How can you be so down on your own country? See, this is the problem, no pride in one's nation. Just as I see the US as better than any other, you should see Britain as better than any other.

You have the Magna Carta, at the very least. Shakespeare, even. You know more of England - I assume - than I do; there must be something.

See, this is the problem, no pride in one's nation. Why is that a problem?

Oh, c'mon. How can you be so down on your own country? See, this is the problem, no pride in one's nation. Just as I see the US as better than any other, you should see Britain as better than any other.

At the end of the day a country is just a shape on a map coloured differently to all the neighbouring shapes. One shouldn't get too worked up about it; if you do you might miss the things that are wrong with your shaded map-region, and neglect to change them for the better.

http://www.retakingamerica.com/files/declaration_independence_02.jpg

Oh, c'mon. How can you be so down on your own country? See, this is the problem, no pride in one's nation. Just as I see the US as better than any other, you should see Britain as better than any other.

Because Nationalism has been such a positive influence throughout European history... ;)

Wrong! Our patriotic tunes are ace. Much better than anyone else's, I reckon.Indeed, that's why the populace as a whole has very little patriotism. We just let the tunes do the talking.

Whereas in the States they have awful tunes, so half the populace are fierce patriots because they feel they have something make up for... I mean... have you ever heard the star spangled banner?

The country I'm probably most proud of, well more its people, is Uzbekistan. All the people I met there were so incredible. Especially when they have to deal with a government that is prepared to screw over many many people so long as it thinks it will remain in power.

One could read up. We are a part of British history, too.
I know a bit about American history, but not so much about modern American attitudes towards their Constitution, which was what I was getting at.

Oh, c'mon. How can you be so down on your own country? See, this is the problem, no pride in one's nation. Just as I see the US as better than any other, you should see Britain as better than any other.
Why? At the moment as a nation we're stuck in the doldrums, perhaps some form of post-imperial hangover. We seem to depend upon the USA for our foreign policy and military clout, and even then can't get it right. Even then, it's hard to see that Britian as a country will even last much longer. Most English (falsely) believe that all Scots are evil labour-supporting toerags who gave us Blair and Scotland seems to be slowly drifting towards independence.

Which is going to be interesting for me, being 1/2 English and Scottish...

I suppose we DO have one thing we can be proud of, after all. Cynicism. Even BBC's top-rated Have Your Say New Year's Message was 'I'm not going out because of all the violent drunks, addicts and whatnot...'

You have the Magna Carta, at the very least. Shakespeare, even. You know more of England - I assume - than I do; there must be something.
Sure, we've got a lot of past achievements we can be proud of, but not today, I'm afraid...

At the end of the day a country is just a shape on a map coloured differently to all the neighbouring shapes. One shouldn't get too worked up about it; if you do you might miss the things that are wrong with your shaded map-region, and neglect to change them for the better.

I wish.

Sure, we've got a lot of past achievements we can be proud of, but not today, I'm afraid...

You guys spawned Monty Python. I think you're covered for the next 150 years or so.

You guys spawned Monty Python. I think you're covered for the next 150 years or so.
And by then Palin will have run out of Earthy travel programmes and will be giving us a tour of the Moon!

I am tired of seeing threads where people bash their, or other's, nations. So, I'd like to start a thread where one posts what they are most proud of about their country.

As an American, I will say that the US is the best nation on the planet compared to any other - past or present. What I am most proud of is our Constitution.

I'm most proud of our ability to live next door to the germans ;)

On a more serious note: I'm proud of our cheese, our language and our humour/sarcasm (it's almost as good as the british) :D

Our ability to outdrink the English and remain sober. :p

What I'm most gratified about with my country is that the following phrases were uttered by an American:

"Houston, the Eagle had landed."
"That's one small step for a man, one giant leap for Mankind."

*Prepares to sing*:Kazakhstan greatest country in the world.
All other countries are run by little girls.
Kazakhstan number one exporter of potassium.
Other countries have inferior potassium.

Kazakhstan home of Tinshein swimming pool.
It’s length thirty meter and width six meter.
Filtration system a marvel to behold.
It remove 80 percent of human solid waste.

Kazakhstan, Kazakhstan you very nice place.
From Plains of Tarashek to Northern fence of Jewtown.
Kazakhstan friend of all except Uzbekistan.
They very nosey people with bone in their brain.

Kazakhstan industry best in world.
We invented toffee and trouser belt.
Kazakhstan’s prostitutes cleanest in the region.
Except of course for Turkmenistan’s.

Kazakhstan, Kazakhstan you very nice place.
From Plains of Tarashek to Norther fence of Jewtown.

Come grasp the mighty penis of our leader.
From junction with the testes to tip of its face!

Which is going to be interesting for me, being 1/2 English and Scottish...

Snap!

On topic, I'm proud of British history (most of it), including past achievements which still affect us today (don't see any of France's former colonies being a superpower :p), and our culture in general.

Whereas in the States they have awful tunes, so half the populace are fierce patriots because they feel they have something make up for... I mean... have you ever heard the star spangled banner?

The melody is a British tune...

I like our complex understanding of the grey areas of the law - or as Dara O'Briain says:

"In Ireland, there are three areas of the law:
1. That's grand.
2. Don't push it.
3. That's it, you're taking the piss!
And that's where the police sweep in."

Plus, we have more culture per head of population than most countries - all those nobel prize winning writers and the music, etc.

And the European Convention on Human Rights, I'm proud of that (especially Protocol 13).
I'm very proud of my continent, as well, though I know it has a lot of problems.

Snap!

On topic, I'm proud of British history (most of it), including past achievements which still affect us today (don't see any of France's former colonies being a superpower :p), and our culture in general.

Yep, their colonies just end up starting up wars that screw up that superpower. (vietnam)

Hmm many good scientists and mathamaticions and writers, e.g: Newton, Darwin, Shakespear etc... to name a few.

Good stable past, no terribly violent revolution.

Very high number of legendary artists/bands.

Good culture etc..

The melody is a British tune...

And if we'd liked it we'd've kept it ;)

Yep, their colonies just end up starting up wars that screw up that superpower. (vietnam)

We didn't start Viet Nam - though, neither did we finish it.

The French started Viet Nam by trying to reassert their colonial authority. They got waxed and called on us to help them out. By treaty obligations, we went to help and got caught up in something that we ended up not having the will to win

We didn't start Viet Nam - though, neither did we finish it.

The French started Viet Nam by trying to reassert their colonial authority. They got waxed and called on us to help them out. By treaty obligations, we went to help and got caught up in something that we ended up not having the will to win

Well that's a new one. Never heard France being blamed for American foreign policy in Vietnam before. Twist your arm did they?

The melody is a British tune...

Irish.

Hmm many good scientists and mathamaticions and writers, e.g: Newton, Darwin, Shakespear etc... to name a few.

Agreed.

Good stable past, no terribly violent revolution.

Well, there was a dust-up with Cromwell. You lost a king over that. And, the wars that led to the Magna Carta.

But, revolution is not always a bad thing.

Very high number of legendary artists/bands.

Mmmm - well, OK. Matter of taste, though...

Good culture etc..

For most of the bell curve. Ya got some really out there fringes, though.

Well that's a new one. Never heard France being blamed for American foreign policy in Vietnam before. Twist your arm did they?

Being a treaty obligation, yeah that's about right.

Being a treaty obligation, yeah that's about right.

Again, wow. I got to say, I never knew the French forced the American government to back Diem into ignoring the Geneva Accords of 1954, and all the general shit that occured over the next 10-15 years.

That's alright then. We'll blame the French instead.

Yep, their colonies just end up starting up wars that screw up that superpower. (vietnam)

The United states of America is still a greater nation than Vietnam.

Again, wow. I got to say, I never knew the French forced the American government to back Diem into ignoring the Geneva Accords of 1954, and all the general shit that occured over the next 10-15 years.

That's alright then. We'll blame the French instead.

Not sure what you're refering to with that. The point was that after WWII France went right back to exploiting the resources in its colonies in Indochina. Having been ignored by the Western Allies Vietnam sought help elsewhere and found it with the Soviets. With the hardware coming in the locals were able to start hitting back againt the French, who decided, once again, that their friendship with the US meant always being there when they needed it, called for help. (Remember also, France was still a NATO ally at the time.)

In fairness, we didn't go in kicking and screaming. Any opportunity to try and contain Communism was all the motivation we needed and off we went. First with just a little assistance here and there, and by the time all was said and done France was nowhere to be found and we were the ones holding the bag.

The melody is a British tune...It was meant to be a joke. I have said on this forum before that I don't like the British national anthem. I'm not very fond of national anthems in general. I tend to find they choose the worst tunes to use.

Now Dvorak's New World Symphony is a tune. Someone should use that as part of a national anthem. Especially the second movement... at least I think it's the second movement. The part that stupid hovis used in their adverts.

Well that's a new one. Never heard France being blamed for American foreign policy in Vietnam before. Twist your arm did they?

In a sense, yes.

Just as Germany was dragged into World War I by treaty obligations to Austria and England and France were drawn into World War II by treaty obligations to Poland, we were dragged into Viet Nam because of treaty obligations to France.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

I refuse to be proud of my country (even if having peace for almost 200 years and having abolished the death penalty some 100 years ago are nice things we've managed to pull off) because, as we can clearly see by certain posts in this thread, such pointless pride leads to excusing the most awful behaviour in the name of "my country can't suck and can't do wrong, since it's my country and if we have done something wrong, it's not our fault - it's someone elses". I can do without such idiocy, and can clearly say that mine is not the "best" country out there, but then again neither is any country of anyone who thinks theirs is.

That's alright then.

Glad to have your approval. We were concerned.

We'll blame the French instead.

If you want to be accurate on how the US got into Viet Nam, then, yes, blame the French.

If you want to blame who started it in general, that would lie with Viet Nam.

If you want to blame who was responsible for it's duration, that would be both Viet Nam and the US. Maybe some Russia tossed in for good measure.

Are you looking for accuracy or political points?

Not sure what you're refering to with that.

Then maybe you should check it up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Accords%2C_1954

Then maybe you should check it up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Accords%2C_1954Or he could read 'the Quiet American'. A fairly non-fictional book written by Graham Greene who was a reporter in Saigon in the early 50s.

It was meant to be a joke. I have said on this forum before that I don't like the British national anthem. I'm not very fond of national anthems in general. I tend to find they choose the worst tunes to use.

I like some of them.

I like France's La Marseillaise and Germany's Deutschland Uber Alles. I particularly like the USSR's Hymn.

As for a tune, I really don't like the US Anthem. Too hard...

Seeing as is we shouldnt be playing the blame game on any nation here especially when it started out so positively. I agree that no one nation is the best because there is always someone better then you.

Now for what i like about my nation, the United States
"Houston, the Eagle had landed."
Proud of this because im from Houston :D
Also enjoy some of the many freedoms that i am allowed.

As for Britain, I enjoy many many of their entertainers such as David Bowie, Pink Floyd and many others

As an American, I'm most proud not of my nation's military or government or even the US Constitution, but rather of the stability of American civil society. Trusting your neighbors to exercise their freedom responsibly, and being true to one's word, are the real cornerstones of American liberty and prosperity. These aren't the principles laid down by the Constitution, they are the principles that laid the groundwork for the Constitution.

i like the US because the individual freedoms are outstanding:D

The UK is a good country too but, it seems that England is a little too dominant.:(

just my 0.02 cents..

Seeing as is we shouldnt be playing the blame game on any nation here especially when it started out so positively. I agree that no one nation is the best because there is always someone better then you.

Now for what i like about my nation, the United States

Proud of this because im from Houston :D
Also enjoy some of the many freedoms that i am allowed.

As for Britain, I enjoy many many of their entertainers such as David Bowie, Pink Floyd and many others

Sorry about that. I really wasn't looking for an arguement, just trying to make a joke...:rolleyes:

I was hardly talking about ur post. Just trying to help avoid potential arguments and i am hardly a moderator. you could tell me to shut the f*ck up if u wish. sorry if their was some confusion there and yes i know u were making a joke. I just don't want some french guy coming in a trying to start sh*t ;)

I'm most proud of the USA's non-aggressive, humanitarian-based foreign policy. No, wait... its commitment to a clean environment. No, wait... the way we've eradicated poverty and predjudice in our nation. No, wait... our absolute devotion to freedom of speech and due process, and the sanctity of the writ of habeas corpus. No, wait... the civility of our political process and public discourse. No, wait...


Fuck it, I'm moving to Canada.

generaly speaking my country is a good place to live. we have good beer, cheese and other food. exept for Congo there aren't a lot of places we fucked up. we have some beautiful cities and an interesting history. Belgium is also a federation, and although there are some seperatists this seperatism is almost totaly non-violent, how many countries can say that? and did i mention our beer?

I am tired of seeing threads where people bash their, or other's, nations. So, I'd like to start a thread where one posts what they are most proud of about their country.

As an American, I will say that the US is the best nation on the planet compared to any other - past or present. What I am most proud of is our Constitution.

Well, even though I can't ignore the hypocritical past of the US, I'd say the Bill of Rights or the Declaration of Independence are fundamentally very worthwhile acheivements.

i like the beer.... and some of the countryside.... every country has nice scenery though. and some other countries have good beer too.

having abolished the death penalty some 100 years ago

Took your time doing it. Michigan abolished it 160 years ago this year. Still, I agree with your post to an extent. I think it's ok to have a small bit of pride but anything more than a little bit tends to get you into trouble.

I am tired of seeing threads where people bash their, or other's, nations. So, I'd like to start a thread where one posts what they are most proud of about their country.I like the US for no matter how bad it seems, every four years, a change can be made.

I like Smunkeeville. It's nice there.
it does sound really, Really nice there too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pugliese

Pugliese.

While I won't declare Ireland to be the best nation in the world, I do love many things about my people and country

1. Our culture - beautiful language, music and a fascinating mythology
2. Our Christian faith and charitable instincts
3. Our land, especially in the west, is one of the least spoiled in Europe.

As an American, I will say that the US is the best nation on the planet compared to any other - past or present. What I am most proud of is our Constitution.
Maybe you should name something that most of us will understand?

Especially when you give no more reason why the US is the best nation ever.

Just as I see the US as better than any other, you should see Britain as better than any other.

I don't see how that is healthy. Not that I agree with being "down" on one's own country (there are many good things about Britain [and America]), but there's a difference between health amounts of patriotism, and nationalism.

Sure, we've got a lot of past achievements we can be proud of, but not today, I'm afraid...
Not at all. Britain's cultural life is, as you might say, "happening". Your people created the BBC, ffs! That is an incredible achievement and gift to the world.

I like our complex understanding of the grey areas of the law - or as Dara O'Briain says:

"In Ireland, there are three areas of the law:
1. That's grand.
2. Don't push it.
3. That's it, you're taking the piss!
And that's where the police sweep in."

Plus, we have more culture per head of population than most countries - all those nobel prize winning writers and the music, etc.

And the European Convention on Human Rights, I'm proud of that (especially Protocol 13).
I'm very proud of my continent, as well, though I know it has a lot of problems.
Good post, fellow Irish citizen!

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

I refuse to be proud of my country (even if having peace for almost 200 years and having abolished the death penalty some 100 years ago are nice things we've managed to pull off)
Despite your constant pointing out of how much better things are in Sweden, and how much worse they are in other places?

because, as we can clearly see by certain posts in this thread, such pointless pride leads to excusing the most awful behaviour in the name of "my country can't suck and can't do wrong
Care to point them out?

Harlesburg-Great Culture

New Zealand- 2ndNZD

Fuck it, I'm moving to Canada.

See ya.

Say hi to the Baldwins.

Oh, wait. They didn't keep their promise...

Maybe you should name something that most of us will understand?

Then, it wouldn't be that which I am most proud of, would it?

Especially when you give no more reason why the US is the best nation ever.

It is my opinion.

I don't see how that is healthy. Not that I agree with being "down" on one's own country (there are many good things about Britain [and America]), but there's a difference between health amounts of patriotism, and nationalism.

Then, by your assessment, I am not healthy. I am a Nationalist. And, proud of it. I will stand by the US against all comers.

See ya.

Say hi to the Baldwins.

Oh, wait. They didn't keep their promise...

Then again, maybe I'll stay and fight against fascists who think it's a good thing that American democracy is being dismantled and who get off on authoritarian power trips. :upyours:

Then again, maybe I'll stay and fight against fascists who think it's a good thing that American democracy is being dismantled and who get off on authoritarian power trips. :upyours:

You do that...

By the way, we are not a democracy.

http://www.retakingamerica.com/files/declaration_independence_02.jpg

QFT.

By the way, we are not a democracy.

Finally, someone gets it right. :)

Let America be America again.
Let it be the dream it used to be.
Let it be the pioneer on the plain
Seeking a home where he himself is free.

(America never was America to me.)

Let America be the dream the dreamers dreamed-
Let it be that great strong land of love
Where never kings connive nor tyrants scheme
That any man be crushed by one above.

(It never was America to me.)

O, let my land be a land where Liberty
Is crowned with no false patriotic wreath,
But opportunity is real, and life is free,
Equality is in the air we breathe.

(There's never been equality for me,
Nor freedom in this "homeland of the free.")

Say, who are you that mumbles in the dark?
And who are you that draws your veil across the stars?

I am the poor white, fooled and pushed apart,
I am the Negro bearing slavery's scars.
I am the red man driven from the land,
I am the immigrant clutching the hope I seek-
And finding only the same old stupid plan
Of dog eat dog, of mighty crush the weak.

I am the young man, full of strength and hope,
Tangled in that ancient endless chain
Of profit, power, gain, of grab the land!
Of grab the gold! Of grab the ways of satisfying need!
Of work the men! Of take the pay!
Of owning everything for one's own greed!

I am the farmer, bondsman to the soil.
I am the worker sold to the machine.
I am the Negro, servant to you all.
I am the people, humble, hungry, mean-
Hungry yet today despite the dream.
Beaten yet today-O, Pioneers!
I am the man who never got ahead,
The poorest worker bartered through the years.

Yet I'm the one who dreamt our basic dream
In the Old World while still a serf of kings,
Who dreamt a dream so strong, so brave, so true,
That even yet its mighty daring sings
In every brick and stone, in every furrow turned
That's made America the land it has become.
O, I'm the man who sailed those early seas
In search of what I meant to be my home-
For I'm the one who left dark Ireland's shore,
And Poland's plain, and England's grassy lea,
And torn from Black Africa's strand I came
To build a "homeland of the free."

The free?

Who said the free? Not me?
Surely not me? The millions on relief today?
The millions shot down when we strike?
The millions who have nothing for our pay?
For all the dreams we've dreamed
And all the songs we've sung
And all the hopes we've held
And all the flags we've hung,
The millions who have nothing for our pay-
Except the dream that's almost dead today.

O, let America be America again-
The land that never has been yet-
And yet must be--the land where every man is free.
The land that's mine--the poor man's, Indian's, Negro's, ME-
Who made America,
Whose sweat and blood, whose faith and pain,
Whose hand at the foundry, whose plow in the rain,
Must bring back our mighty dream again.

Sure, call me any ugly name you choose-
The steel of freedom does not stain.
From those who live like leeches on the people's lives,
We must take back our land again,
America!

O, yes,
I say it plain,
America never was America to me,
And yet I swear this oath-
America will be!

Out of the rack and ruin of our gangster death,
The rape and rot of graft, and stealth, and lies,
We, the people, must redeem
The land, the mines, the plants, the rivers.
The mountains and the endless plain-
All, all the stretch of these great green states-
And make America again!

That puts it well, I think.

I'm proud of Mexico, I don't why I just am.

I'm proud of Mexico, I don't why I just am.

Who isn't? :p

Took your time doing it. Michigan abolished it 160 years ago this year. Still, I agree with your post to an extent. I think it's ok to have a small bit of pride but anything more than a little bit tends to get you into trouble.

IIRC, you still have the death penalty in time of war. That's not complete abolishment.

You do that...

By the way, we are not a democracy.

You want a culture war, buddy boy, you and your neocon/ fundie buddies will get one! How dare you support this so-called administration that has consistently tried to undermine the checks and balances mandated by our Constitution! How dare you support the surveillance of US citizens! How dare you support the dismantling of habeas corpus in violation of our Constitution! How dare you support an admistration that has dishonored our millitary and sent 3000 men and women to their deaths for an illegal war built on lies! You, sir, are a traitor, and you and your kind sicken me. And maybe, just maybe, the American public is finally waking up and deciding it is sick of you people pissing on the Bill of Rights. Why don't you try and see how far up the ass of your beloved Commander-in-Chimp you can crawl? Or better yet, why don't you try minding your own affairs instead of trying to tell others how to live? Maybe you Right-wing Authoritarian types need someone to direct your every move, but the rest of us don't. Maybe you can't feel good about yourselves unless you have someone to bully to make you feel important, but the rest of us are not so impaired. Feel free to live in North Korea or Iran if you like security over liberty, but while we look to find both, quit trying to impose your warped worldview on us! And for your information, we may not be a direct democracy (which wouldn't work in a nation this size), but we are a rebublic with a representative democracy structure.

Sure, we've got a lot of past achievements we can be proud of, but not today, I'm afraid...

Why can't we be proud of past achievments? Anyway, Shakespeare is still widely respected. Monty-Python likewise. The Magna-Carta concept, that the king is bound by law, was a crucial stone in the bridge to modern democratic ideas. The union is still in force today. The abolition of slavery is still in force today.

If they can be proud of the Constitution, why can't we be proud of present things that began in the past, as it did?

France... For starters, we have one of the world's best national anthems. :p

We're still holding on to our social rights, and to our independent stand in the world. France is still looked up to and admired by people in countries around the world, at a time when the Bush regime has dealt a crippling blow to the US's international reputation. (I've been browsing the online media of random countries recently, and it's surprising how many talk about France even when nothing's happening here, and their country's relations with France).

As a whole we tend to value education and intelligence instead of looking down at them.

We had the French Revolution, and wrote the first Declaration of Human Rights.

There has been real seperation of Church and State for 102 years now... and in France, the principles of "laïcité" are held very seriously. When we say seperation of religion and government, we mean it.

And, above all, we're the country where people will take to the streets and demonstrate for just about any conceivable reason! :D

There are a good many negative aspects too, but that would be off-topic. ;)

Britain is ace. Especially the NHS.

And the way the standard of living has increased in the last 10 years, and we banned fox hunting which is overdue but still good.

As a Canadian, I am most proud of our ability to not simply endure winter, but to excel in it.

Oh, and right now our boys over at the World Juniors.
Good one.

As a Canadian, I'm most proud of our growing areligiousness. Religion is a crutch for the weak-minded, and more and more Canadians seem to be realising that.

Now we just need to get rid of the socialism and we'll be set.

You want a culture war, buddy boy, you and your neocon/ fundie buddies will get one!

Uh-huh...

Yeah...

Are you keeping a straight face or what?

How dare you support this so-called administration that has consistently tried to undermine the checks and balances mandated by our Constitution!

Please demonstrate where I have indicated my support - or lack thereof - of the administration.

How dare you support the surveillance of US citizens!

See above.

How dare you support the dismantling of habeas corpus in violation of our Constitution!

Ditto.

How dare you support an admistration that has dishonored our millitary and sent 3000 men and women to their deaths for an illegal war built on lies!

Hahahahahahahaha!

You are hilarious!

"Illegal war?"

*snort*

Yeah - and your next joke is - ?

You, sir, are a traitor,

Such bravery from one posting in an internet forum under a false name. Yup, got me shakin' in my boots...

and you and your kind sicken me.

And, I should care because - ?

And maybe, just maybe, the American public is finally waking up and deciding it is sick of you people pissing on the Bill of Rights.

So, it was alright when Clinton abused the Bill of Rights?

Got it.

Why don't you try and see how far up the ass of your beloved Commander-in-Chimp you can crawl?

Put a burr under your saddle, didn't I? Wasn't all that hard to do, either. Man, you're easy.

Or better yet, why don't you try minding your own affairs instead of trying to tell others how to live?

Hey, bozo, you're the one who posted you wanted to move to Canada. I don't recall telling you otherwise then, or when you said you were going to stay.

Do you practice making things up for others, or does it come naturally?

Maybe you Right-wing Authoritarian types need someone to direct your every move, but the rest of us don't.

I really think you need to stop smoking that...

Maybe you can't feel good about yourselves unless you have someone to bully to make you feel important, but the rest of us are not so impaired.

Hmm. Examining your posts and mine in response to them shows that you are being the bully.

But, feel free. Hey, your right to be an idiot. Who am I to stop you?

quote]Feel free to live in North Korea or Iran if you like security over liberty,[/quote]

Unlike you - who wants to move to Canada - I love it here. But, don't let me keep you from making it splitsville, man.

but while we look to find both, quit trying to impose your warped worldview on us!

Speaking of warped, how about you check my posts compared to yours.

And for your information, we may not be a direct democracy (which wouldn't work in a nation this size), but we are a rebublic with a representative democracy structure.

As I said, we are not a democracy.

Are you always this flipped out, or was I just lucky?

Good one.

As a Canadian, I'm most proud of our growing areligiousness. Religion is a crutch for the weak-minded, and more and more Canadians seem to be realising that.

Now we just need to get rid of the socialism and we'll be set.

an estimated 30% of Canadians are either agnostic or atheist, I suspect it's higher but surveys on religion seem to be very unreliable, atheists will be the majority in one generation(no more than two)
.......... about 60-70% of Canadians are socialist and I don't expect that to change:D.....

what I'm most proud of-we haven't invaded, bombed, terrorized or occupied many countries...other than the Boer War and WW1 we're clean:D WW2 was a good cause...

Snip

Snip

How about you both get out of this thread with your stupid politics.


And once more:
http://www.retakingamerica.com/files/declaration_independence_02.jpg

I can play at that too! :)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a0/Declaration_of_Human_Rights.jpg/340px-Declaration_of_Human_Rights.jpg

I can play at that too! :)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a0/Declaration_of_Human_Rights.jpg/340px-Declaration_of_Human_Rights.jpg

Not to mention that you play it so much more stylishly and better phrased...

*ne sait pas bien cacher son béguin pour la France*

France... For starters, we have one of the world's best national anthems. :p

That's true, it's one of the three anthems I know the melody of :)

How about you both get out of this thread with your stupid politics.

Yo, dude - while you're manly snipping content to make some sort of insipid point, you might want to check out the original post in this thread and who made it.

Here's a hint - it was me.

About your graphic, you might want to reexamine your priorities. It is a poor example of support for the first amendment to tell others where they may or may not post.

I suggest the Communist Manifesto for you...

Meanwhile, I'll post as I please.

Yo, dude - while you're manly snipping content to make some sort of insipid point, you might want to check out the original post in this thread and who made it.

Here's a hint - it was me.

About your graphic, you might want to reexamine your priorities. It is a poor example of support for the first amendment to tell others where they may or may not post.

I suggest the Communist Manifesto for you...

Meanwhile, I'll post as I please.

I was well aware of who initiated the thread, so it came to me as a surprise when you allowed it to degrade into a political discussion, when, in fact, it completely contradicted the original purpose for the thread.

Posted by you:
I am tired of seeing threads where people bash their, or other's, nations. So, I'd like to start a thread where one posts what they are most proud of about their country.

And then you proceed to feed Maineiacs after he starts to bash his nation rather than ignoring it.

Sure, I joined the military to uphold the ideals of the Communist Manifesto, you're right. :rolleyes:

And don't call me dude.

i'm most proud of the USA because of the Constitution and the principles behind it...however that government died after the Civil War when the states lost most of their power, and in recent years i.e. since 9/11 our personal civil liberties have been undermined to the point that it will not take much to strip us of them. i am also proud of the fact that the US, while it has not always been in the right, has almost always done what it felt was right.

About your graphic, you might want to reexamine your priorities. It is a poor example of support for the first amendment to tell others where they may or may not post.

The graphic was of the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution.

We hold these truths to be self-evident:
that all men are created equal;

that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights;

that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness;

that, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed;

that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

:)

Took your time doing it. Michigan abolished it 160 years ago this year. Still, I agree with your post to an extent. I think it's ok to have a small bit of pride but anything more than a little bit tends to get you into trouble.

Hey the United States as whole hasn't banned it, so Swedens beaten us there.

I'm English. I am proud of my country beyond measure despite the morass that is chavdom. Afterall, we have MANY reasons;

England formed Britain, which in turn conquered more of the world than any other Empire, despite Britain being a tiny assembledge of islands on the outskirts of Europe.

The English language is foremost amongst language.

We, the English, have an uncanny ability to stand in queues for a disproportionate amount of time in relation to the reason for queueing.

The British Monarchy is the most powerful Monarchy in the world (despite being robbed of its power in recent decades) and has been for centuries.

Our heritage is rich with genetic stock from across Europe, allowing for a better genepool.

The class system still isn't dead in England (Huzzah).

We, the British this time, are generally unphased by things that bring other nations to their knees, e.g. the London Bombings, where on the same day people continued to get the tube home.

Our houses are made of brick- a cheap shot at American housing, granted.

Truely there is no better country than England, no better assembly of countries under one Monarch than Britain, and no better people than the English who are proud of being English (Or to a lesser extent British.)

I am proud that the U.S. contributed massively to the creation of the Internet.

Hey the United States as whole hasn't banned it, so Swedens beaten us there.

Let's not forget Sweden gave us the 'Lion of the North', Gustavus Adolphus... now there was a king's king :)

I will say, this thread is more or less hypocrisy, though. It cannot go five posts without someone bashing the United States (ok, sometimes more than five posts) and the baiting is ridiculous. Aren't there enough threads that criticise my country? (or enough threads that if you say one nice thing about the US, it devolves into 'I hate Bush, Republicans and US Foreign Policy' or 'The US sucks for being in Iraq, VietNam, Korea, Europe and Japan, etc...') Yes, we have a lot of hypocrites in the US, mostly in the political arena, and yes, we have more than a few bigoted, clueless, media-fed, uninformed citizens, and it may even be, tragically, the rule and not the exception; however, with all the hate-filled bile I see on these boards far too often, and the pats on the back for 'I hate *insert object of hate here* about America', I see the exception is not the rule for the rest of the world either.

Anyway, what I love about my country is that I can say this without fear of repercussion or reprisal. I love the malleability of our Constitution, that it can be changed and modified, sometimes rightly, sometimes poorly, and that the Declaration of Independence has served as a model and inspiration for many a nation. And then there's the Dallas Cowboys :)

The Diversity in everything.

Our houses are made of brick- a cheap shot at American housing, granted.


That actually depends on where you live :) At no point in my life have I lived in a house other than brick... but that's the suburbs for you.

I have duel nationality, English and Irish, but I have lived in England my whole life, so while I will generalise most things as 'British', I hope you get the point:

-Our ability to laugh at Americans every time they say 'We have so much freedom', as if we are somehow slaves to our own government. Sorry, that's just a little thing that always irks me. =)

-Our ability to laugh in general. IMO, British comedy is fantastic, past and present. We have given the world brilliant comedians. And this is just me, but for every one good American comedy sitcom, there are roughly 10 awful ones and two amazing British ones.

-The language. Out of the whole language, as well is 'publicly known', only four words don't rhyme. Three of them are colours.

-Our history, good and bad, I'm proud of both.

-Our stereotype on a purely ironic level. Whenever anyone expects us to have rotten teeth, a bowler hat, a cockney accent and decent manners, I can't help but laugh when their illusions are destroyed.

-We have the wittiest homosexuals in the whole wide world. I bet we do. *bows*

-We've produced some of the best bands ever known to the world.

-The vast majority of us really don't care about much at all. Pip pip. It's not out of ignorance, or arrogance... we just... don't... care. Saddam Hussein died, whut whut? Well, we'll have to mention that tomorrow, but really, what does it all mean? Where will it get me, as an individual, in life? British people don't seem to care about not caring, if you catch my drift.

-So many accents in such a small area.

-Glenn Ross

-British inventions a-plenty, of course.

-The Brits know how to do cynicism. We probably invented it. :)

-Our feeling of seperation from both the US and Europe. While we pride ourselves on being diplomatic politically, as a society, I don't think you could find any group of people who have a higher concentration of racist jokes. We don't really mean it, it just makes us laugh.

-The fact that the South and the North of England hate each other. The Midlands resents both. Cornwall wishes it was it's own nation or something, but no one really listens to them, unless they're actually from Cornwall. Everyone typically hates Wales, because any Welsh people beyond Cardiff and Swansea are reputedly provincial racists and will speak Gaelic if they know it to make outsiders feel unwelcome. And Scotland is full of handsome men, who are often drunk and so... forth. If you're British, you will know the stereotypes.

-Most of all I love the fact that if anyone else challenges Britain, whether you are English, Welsh, Scottish or over the little bit of water and happen to be Northern Irish, whatever the issue is, if any other nation takes a dig, we take a break from ripping one another apart and rip the foreigner apart instead. We are only united in our pride, because we're all stuck together in that little class of 'British' people.

-Oh and while this might be a point of ignorance, for a population of 60 or so million, we seem to do pretty well at exporting famous brands and it's not like you have to look far to find one. Be that in the form of a band, a celebrity, a gameshow, whatever... We've made our impact on the world no matter how small we are in term of size, even today.

IIRC, you still have the death penalty in time of war. That's not complete abolishment.

Nope, the state constitution says "No law shall be enacted providing for the penalty of death" although I'm not sure if the abolition was complete in 1847. I do know that the punishment for treason against the state is life imprisonment in a state prison, and treason is usually where abolitionist states keep it.

Also, from a perusal of the state military code the state military can't even issue a death sentence to it's own soldiers.

And yes, I'm really bored to go sifting through the state military code.

Hey the United States as whole hasn't banned it, so Swedens beaten us there.

It's not our fault you guys in other states won't ban it.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

I refuse to be proud of my country (even if having peace for almost 200 years and having abolished the death penalty some 100 years ago are nice things we've managed to pull off) because, as we can clearly see by certain posts in this thread, such pointless pride leads to excusing the most awful behaviour in the name of "my country can't suck and can't do wrong, since it's my country and if we have done something wrong, it's not our fault - it's someone elses". I can do without such idiocy, and can clearly say that mine is not the "best" country out there, but then again neither is any country of anyone who thinks theirs is.

Yeah, that's more or less my feeling on the issue as well...minus the peace and death penalty thing, naturally.

I am tired of seeing threads where people bash their, or other's, nations. So, I'd like to start a thread where one posts what they are most proud of about their country.

As an American, I will say that the US is the best nation on the planet compared to any other - past or present. What I am most proud of is our Constitution.

*cough*Nationalism*cough*

The fact I can leave it any time I want...

Aside from being in the southern hemisphere but being able to maintain one of the best economies and standards of living in the world, number three on the HDI, I have to say that right now the Australian cricket team brings me the closest to patriotism/nationalism I'm ever going to get.

I was well aware of who initiated the thread, so it came to me as a surprise when you allowed it to degrade into a political discussion, when, in fact, it completely contradicted the original purpose for the thread.

Mere application of the First Amendment. Threads may wander from their original path. Who am I to stop others from exercising their right to post as they please?

And then you proceed to feed Maineiacs after he starts to bash his nation rather than ignoring it.

Why should I ignore it?

Sure, I joined the military to uphold the ideals of the Communist Manifesto, you're right.

Well, your upstanding support for the First Amendment didn't quite shine through the repression of your post. Demanding that others take their speech elsewhere because you don't like the content is not exactly in the spirit of the Constitution.

Is it?

And don't call me dude.

OK.

How about, "dood?"

I'm English. I am proud of my country beyond measure despite the morass that is chavdom. Afterall, we have MANY reasons;

England formed Britain, which in turn conquered more of the world than any other Empire, despite Britain being a tiny assembledge of islands on the outskirts of Europe.

The English language is foremost amongst language.

We, the English, have an uncanny ability to stand in queues for a disproportionate amount of time in relation to the reason for queueing.

The British Monarchy is the most powerful Monarchy in the world (despite being robbed of its power in recent decades) and has been for centuries.

Our heritage is rich with genetic stock from across Europe, allowing for a better genepool.

The class system still isn't dead in England (Huzzah).

We, the British this time, are generally unphased by things that bring other nations to their knees, e.g. the London Bombings, where on the same day people continued to get the tube home.

Our houses are made of brick- a cheap shot at American housing, granted.

Truely there is no better country than England, no better assembly of countries under one Monarch than Britain, and no better people than the English who are proud of being English (Or to a lesser extent British.)

Now, this is what I'm talking about.

Bravo.

'Course, the US is better...

I am proud that the U.S. contributed massively to the creation of the Internet.

Indeed.

We actually created it.

Excellent contribution.

*cough*Nationalism*cough*

*cough* Yup *cough*

Got a problem with that?

Oh, sorry, forgot the "*cough*" thingies.

My apologies...

Again, I don't own a country. So there's nothing to be proud of. If I want to be proud of something, I look at my own achievements, not other people's.

I find that the only people who constantly need to point out how proud they are of their country tend not to have much else to be proud of.

Again, I don't own a country. So there's nothing to be proud of. If I want to be proud of something, I look at my own achievements, not other people's.

So, you saw a need to say this more than once?

Why? What's your intent? Are you looking for some sort of approval? Saying it once wasn't enough?

I'm proud of the UK and in particular the town of Telford being regarded as the birthplace of industry.

So, you saw a need to say this more than once?

Why? What's your intent? Are you looking for some sort of approval? Saying it once wasn't enough?

You asked, I answered. It's called "being polite".
Others have asked before you, so I've given that answer a few times already here.

You asked, I answered. It's called "being polite".
Others have asked before you, so I've given that answer a few times already here.

Ah.

Indeed.

We actually created it.

Excellent contribution.

"Sir Timothy John "Tim" Berners-Lee, KBE (born June 8, 1955 in London, England) is the inventor of the World Wide Web and director of the World Wide Web Consortium, which oversees its continued development."

I have duel nationality, English and Irish, but I have lived in England my whole life, so while I will generalise most things as 'British', I hope you get the point:

-Our ability to laugh at Americans every time they say 'We have so much freedom', as if we are somehow slaves to our own government. Sorry, that's just a little thing that always irks me. =)

-Our ability to laugh in general. IMO, British comedy is fantastic, past and present. We have given the world brilliant comedians. And this is just me, but for every one good American comedy sitcom, there are roughly 10 awful ones and two amazing British ones.

-The language. Out of the whole language, as well is 'publicly known', only four words don't rhyme. Three of them are colours.

-Our history, good and bad, I'm proud of both.

-Our stereotype on a purely ironic level. Whenever anyone expects us to have rotten teeth, a bowler hat, a cockney accent and decent manners, I can't help but laugh when their illusions are destroyed.

-We have the wittiest homosexuals in the whole wide world. I bet we do. *bows*

-We've produced some of the best bands ever known to the world.

-The vast majority of us really don't care about much at all. Pip pip. It's not out of ignorance, or arrogance... we just... don't... care. Saddam Hussein died, whut whut? Well, we'll have to mention that tomorrow, but really, what does it all mean? Where will it get me, as an individual, in life? British people don't seem to care about not caring, if you catch my drift.

-So many accents in such a small area.

-Glenn Ross

-British inventions a-plenty, of course.

-The Brits know how to do cynicism. We probably invented it. :)

-Our feeling of seperation from both the US and Europe. While we pride ourselves on being diplomatic politically, as a society, I don't think you could find any group of people who have a higher concentration of racist jokes. We don't really mean it, it just makes us laugh.

-The fact that the South and the North of England hate each other. The Midlands resents both. Cornwall wishes it was it's own nation or something, but no one really listens to them, unless they're actually from Cornwall. Everyone typically hates Wales, because any Welsh people beyond Cardiff and Swansea are reputedly provincial racists and will speak Gaelic if they know it to make outsiders feel unwelcome. And Scotland is full of handsome men, who are often drunk and so... forth. If you're British, you will know the stereotypes.

-Most of all I love the fact that if anyone else challenges Britain, whether you are English, Welsh, Scottish or over the little bit of water and happen to be Northern Irish, whatever the issue is, if any other nation takes a dig, we take a break from ripping one another apart and rip the foreigner apart instead. We are only united in our pride, because we're all stuck together in that little class of 'British' people.

-Oh and while this might be a point of ignorance, for a population of 60 or so million, we seem to do pretty well at exporting famous brands and it's not like you have to look far to find one. Be that in the form of a band, a celebrity, a gameshow, whatever... We've made our impact on the world no matter how small we are in term of size, even today.

Huzzah! Huzzah! *Stands to attention*

Land of Hope and Glooooory...

I'd say the principles behind the Constitution rather than the constitution itself are more important, but I'm British, and thus know nothing.

Britain, unfortunately, has no redeeming features. Oh well...

What the hell are you on. I'm proud of Britain and to be British because (just a few things of the top of my head),

The industrial revolution which lead to the major shift of technological, socioeconomic and cultural conditions in the late 18th and early 19th century that began in Britain and spread throughout the world.

Steam, railways and the beam engines that started in Britain.

Victorian engineer Isambard Kingdom Brunel and suspension bridges.

Wireless communications.

Castles, Cathedrals, Gardens, Museums and Art Galleries.

Fruit trees, Victorians started the art in cultivating and collecting varieties.

Australia, Canada, India, Pakistan, Grenada etc.

The U.S.A.'s national anthem.

-Our ability to laugh at Americans every time they say 'We have so much freedom', as if we are somehow slaves to our own government. Sorry, that's just a little thing that always irks me. =)


But they have the constitution which, as we know, gaurantees the rights of the individual to vote for whoever they want and believe whatever they want. Be they native American, black or communist.

"Sir Timothy John "Tim" Berners-Lee, KBE (born June 8, 1955 in London, England) is the inventor of the World Wide Web and director of the World Wide Web Consortium, which oversees its continued development."

Here we go again.

1 - I said we created the INTERNET. How are you able to rearrange those letters to come up with "World Wide Web?"

2 - A little history for you;

=================
29 Oct 1969
First packets sent by Charley Kline at UCLA as he tried logging into SRI. The first attempt resulted in the system crashing as the letter G of LOGIN was entered.

Mar 1972
Ray Tomlinson (BBN) modifies email program for ARPANET where it becomes a quick hit. The @ sign was chosen from the punctuation keys on Tomlinson's Model 33 Teletype for its "at" meaning.

Jul 1972
Larry Roberts writes first email management program (RD) to list, selectively read, file, forward, and respond to messages.

Oct 1972
International Conference on Computer Communications (ICCC) at the Washington D.C. Hilton with demonstration of ARPANET between 40 machines and the Terminal Interface Processor (TIP) organized by Bob Kahn.

Oct 1972
First computer-to-computer chat takes place at UCLA, and is repeated during ICCC, as psychotic PARRY (at Stanford) discusses its problems with the Doctor (at BBN).

Source;
http://www.zakon.org/robert/internet/timeline/
=================

It was a US DoD request (the Army, specifically) that created the Internet. As for a date, it was July 29, 1968. Here's the actual request;
http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/chris/DIGITAL_ARCHIVE/ARPANET/RFQ-ARPA-IMP.pdf

There ya go.

However, without the Internet, there'd be no WWW.

But they have the constitution which, as we know, gaurantees the rights of the individual to vote for whoever they want and believe whatever they want. Be they native American, black or communist.

Is that the definition of 'Freedom'?

well as a dane, i would say our social welfare system, no person has to go hungry, virtually no poverty, VERY large middle class, hospitals and education is totally free, medicine is very cheep (the government pay about 60% of the price).
To do this we pay about 60% in tax but its well worth it... only the Scandinavian countries (Norway, Denmark and Sweden can brag about having a such success full welfare system)... i am also prude of having defended the freedom of speech recently, as most danes are

You guys spawned Monty Python. I think you're covered for the next 150 years or so.


very true... and dont forget Fawlty Towers...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MbeT7_ARm8

if that dosent secure a nations immortality i dont know what will (im not british)

IMO, British comedy is fantastic, past and present.

Indeed. "Yes, Prime Minister" is probably the best comedy series ever, and there are heaps of other good British ones. And that's just television. British literary humour is also excellent.


Our history, good and bad, I'm proud of both.


How can you possibly be "proud of the bad"?


The vast majority of us really don't care about much at all.

That would count as something to be ashamed of. (And, speaking as a half-French, half-British person, is one of the reasons I'm glad to be living in France rather than the UK. Despite all the good aspects Britain has.)

That would count as something to be ashamed of. (And, speaking as a half-French, half-British person, is one of the reasons I'm glad to be living in France rather than the UK. Despite all the good aspects Britain has.)

Indeed, while a certain amount of cynisism is healthy there is far too much apathy in Britain - by far the worst feature about the country. People are so far removed from traditional identities that now we value getting pissed. How nuts is that?

But of course, this is a thread to be positive in so I'll add that London is the greatest city in the world. Bar none.

The Westminster System

Then, by your assessment, I am not healthy. I am a Nationalist. And, proud of it. I will stand by the US against all comers.
Do you know the history of nationalism? Do you know why the US lost half a million men in a war sixty years ago?

Do you know the history of nationalism? Do you know why the US lost half a million men in a war sixty years ago?

I understand that Charles Manson is a man.

Thus, all men are murderers...

Again, I don't own a country. So there's nothing to be proud of. If I want to be proud of something, I look at my own achievements, not other people's.
Your achievements are built on those of others. Nothing happens in isolation.

I understand that Charles Manson is a man.

Thus, all men are murderers...
Nationalism is intimately connected with fascism, while maleness is not intimately connected with murder. Your right-wing views make me all the more suspicious of you.

Nationalism is intimately connected with fascism, while maleness is not intimately connected with murder.
Interesting comparison....

Your right-wing views make me all the more suspicious of you.

The same could be said of your extreme left-wing views. Left or right, up or down, extremism is still extremism. Of course, no one really needs to be suspicious of pacifists.

Nationalism is intimately connected with fascism.

Weren't you the same person espousing the rights of national self-determination over union? So is self-determination connected to nationalism (it has to be its very nature, of course) as well and therefore a part of fascism? Is this the reasoning you are bringing to the discussion?

You, of course, are wrong, but it sounds like a great people's slogan.

What the hell are you on. I'm proud of Britain and to be British because (just a few things of the top of my head),

The industrial revolution which lead to the major shift of technological, socioeconomic and cultural conditions in the late 18th and early 19th century that began in Britain and spread throughout the world.

Steam, railways and the beam engines that started in Britain.

Victorian engineer Isambard Kingdom Brunel and suspension bridges.

Wireless communications.

Castles, Cathedrals, Gardens, Museums and Art Galleries.

Fruit trees, Victorians started the art in cultivating and collecting varieties.

Australia, Canada, India, Pakistan, Grenada etc.

The U.S.A.'s national anthem.
All, of course, were great achievements. But seeing them just doesn't make my heart swell, I'm afraid. I just can't get into something that happened so many years before I was born.

Indeed, while a certain amount of cynisism is healthy there is far too much apathy in Britain - by far the worst feature about the country. People are so far removed from traditional identities that now we value getting pissed. How nuts is that?

But of course, this is a thread to be positive in so I'll add that London is the greatest city in the world. Bar none.
Camden Town has to be the best part of London. Thinking of Louisa attempting to buy Amyl Nitrate thinking it was "Air Freshener" always puts a smile right back on my face...

Nationalism is intimately connected with fascism, while maleness is not intimately connected with murder. Your right-wing views make me all the more suspicious of you.

According to the FBI's crime stats of 2002, 65% of murders were committed by men and only 7% by women. The remaining 28% are unknown sex. Even if added entirely to the female side - which is unreasonable - murders by men would still double those by women.
-- http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/html/web/offreported/02-nmurder03.html#t206

A more reasonable division would be to use the most recent US Census data. Doing so shows that for 2000, the total population for the US was 281,425,000. Of that, 138,056,000 were men and 143,368,000 were women; a 49.06/50.94 split.
-- http://www.census.gov/prod/2006pubs/07statab/pop.pdf

Applying this to the 28% variable in the FBI's crime stats postulates murders in 2002 being split 78.74% men and 21.26% women.

That shows men committing more than three times as many murders as women.

However, to use the straight FBI data, men are responsible for almost 10 times as many murders as women (9.29x, to be exact).

It appears that maleness has a pretty close connection.

So, do you have something comparable to go with your Nationalism/Fascism claim?

According to the FBI's crime stats of 2002, 65% of murders were committed by men and only 7% by women. The remaining 28% are unknown sex. Even if added entirely to the female side - which is unreasonable - murders by men would still double those by women.
-- http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/html/web/offreported/02-nmurder03.html#t206

A more reasonable division would be to use the most recent US Census data. Doing so shows that for 2000, shows that the total population for the US was 281,425,000. Of that, 138,056,000 were men and 143,368,000 were women; a 49.06/50.94 split.
-- http://www.census.gov/prod/2006pubs/07statab/pop.pdf

Applying this to the 28% variable in the FBI's crime stats postulates murders in 2002 being split 78.74% men and 21.26% women.

That shows men committing more than three times as many murders as women.

However, to use the straight FBI data, men are responsible for almost 10 times as many murders as women (9.29x, to be exact).

It appears that maleness has a pretty close connection.

So, do you have something comparable to go with your Nationalism/Fascism claim?

Interesting statistics on murders... not surprising, but interesting. The problem with the Nationalism/Fascism claims are the time scale. Measured in percentage of human history, nationalism would have been around say in 4-6% of human history, and fascism around 2% (and that's being generous because I hate math). Unless one make the claim that all pre-industrial societies were inherently fascist, but not all dictatorships are fascist, and certainly fuedal society was not, though oppressive no doubt. The problem is the definition of the word. What The Pacifist Womble claims is fascism and nationalism clearly is not mine, nor yours I should think, and perhaps not even history's...

Facism is more a possible product of a post nationalistic war, if we take it by history's event (Germany, Italy), (with all the funny little things, like economic ruin, oppression and ridicule from the winners of the war) and we have also learned from the past, the more nationalistic the more they are war prowned... so that way fascism is a possible result of extreme nationalism

The problem is the definition of the word.

Esentially, Fascism is just a name for a system of government. It, in and of itself, is neither good nor evil. It is what men make of it.

The US is a Republic. But, so is North Korea and so was East Germany - to go by their names.

Is the US morally equivalent to North Korea and East Germany? Well, probably to many here, it is, but they are fools.

For all the talk of avoiding generalization that I read, it sure is easily applied when it suits one's purpose.

What The Pacifist Womble claims is fascism and nationalism clearly is not mine, nor yours I should think, and perhaps not even history's...

Of that, I am certain. I am sure, however, with his handle, a certain level of bias is to be assumed.

As an American, I will say that the US is the best nation on the planet compared to any other - past or present. What I am most proud of is our Constitution.
Then stop violating it serially.

Facism is more a possible product of a post nationalistic war, if we take it by history's event (Germany, Italy), (with all the funny little things, like economic ruin, oppression and ridicule from the winners of the war) and we have also learned from the past, the more nationalistic the more they are war prowned... so that way fascism is a possible result of extreme nationalism

Extreme nationalism, absolutely. Nationalism as a whole is not bad. A good number of the countries that exist today exist because of less extreme forms of nationalism, and a few extreme applications. Mostly, it is the right of self-determination that has made the modern world and what I enjoy and cherish would not exist without it.

The same could be said of your extreme left-wing views. Left or right, up or down, extremism is still extremism. Of course, no one really needs to be suspicious of pacifists.
I don't have extreme left-wing views. I'm more on the centre-left.

Weren't you the same person espousing the rights of national self-determination over union? So is self-determination connected to nationalism

No. It's connected to patriotism, at most. Nationalism is extreme patriotism, which leads to fascism. Historically, quite a lot of fascists have had very little regard for the right to self-determination.

I don't have extreme left-wing views. I'm more on the centre-left.



No. It's connected to patriotism, at most. Nationalism is extreme patriotism, which leads to fascism. Historically, quite a lot of fascists have had very little regard for the right to self-determination.

Well, center-right myself, but I am sure we can all live in harmony :) But, if you are pacifist, that qualifies as extreme-left, at least to many in this world, and to me... but that is simply my opinion on that matter.

Let me ask you one question about this: The Easter Rebellion... was it nationalism or patriotism that fomented Ireland's self-determination? And by the by, quite a lot of nationalists did not care for fascism... but I think the definitions blur here. And patroitism is a key component to self-determination (so is political interest, but that is perhaps complicating things), at most, nationalism is connected. You have to want your country to be free to determine its course. I don't have to explain this, surely. Patriotism is the heart of the matter. In the end, Nationalism can be seen as an extreme form of patriotism and fascism the most extreme form of nationalism.

Then stop violating it serially.

Provide an example.

Here we go again.

1 - I said we created the INTERNET. How are you able to rearrange those letters to come up with "World Wide Web?"

2 - A little history for you;

=================
29 Oct 1969
First packets sent by Charley Kline at UCLA as he tried logging into SRI. The first attempt resulted in the system crashing as the letter G of LOGIN was entered.

Mar 1972
Ray Tomlinson (BBN) modifies email program for ARPANET where it becomes a quick hit. The @ sign was chosen from the punctuation keys on Tomlinson's Model 33 Teletype for its "at" meaning.

Jul 1972
Larry Roberts writes first email management program (RD) to list, selectively read, file, forward, and respond to messages.

Oct 1972
International Conference on Computer Communications (ICCC) at the Washington D.C. Hilton with demonstration of ARPANET between 40 machines and the Terminal Interface Processor (TIP) organized by Bob Kahn.

Oct 1972
First computer-to-computer chat takes place at UCLA, and is repeated during ICCC, as psychotic PARRY (at Stanford) discusses its problems with the Doctor (at BBN).

Source;
http://www.zakon.org/robert/internet/timeline/
=================

It was a US DoD request (the Army, specifically) that created the Internet. As for a date, it was July 29, 1968. Here's the actual request;
http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/chris/DIGITAL_ARCHIVE/ARPANET/RFQ-ARPA-IMP.pdf

There ya go.

However, without the Internet, there'd be no WWW.

Er, Tim Berners-Lee is the primary inventor of the World Wide Web not the internet. FACT

All, of course, were great achievements. But seeing them just doesn't make my heart swell, I'm afraid. I just can't get into something that happened so many years before I was born.

That's ok, those achievements make me proud. I thought the question was " What Of Your Country Are You Most Proud Of?"

Not " What Of Your Country In Your Lifetime Are You Most Proud Of?"

So maybe there is something that makes you proud?

According to the FBI's crime stats of 2002, 65% of murders were committed by men and only 7% by women. The remaining 28% are unknown sex. Even if added entirely to the female side - which is unreasonable - murders by men would still double those by women.
-- http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/html/web/offreported/02-nmurder03.html#t206

A more reasonable division would be to use the most recent US Census data. Doing so shows that for 2000, the total population for the US was 281,425,000. Of that, 138,056,000 were men and 143,368,000 were women; a 49.06/50.94 split.
-- http://www.census.gov/prod/2006pubs/07statab/pop.pdf

Applying this to the 28% variable in the FBI's crime stats postulates murders in 2002 being split 78.74% men and 21.26% women.

That shows men committing more than three times as many murders as women.

However, to use the straight FBI data, men are responsible for almost 10 times as many murders as women (9.29x, to be exact).

It appears that maleness has a pretty close connection.

So, do you have something comparable to go with your Nationalism/Fascism claim?

Your forgot the First Commanment of Statistics: Correlation does not mean causation.

Er, Tim Berners-Lee is the primary inventor of the World Wide Web not the internet. FACT

Uh, yeah, that was my point...

I British and I must say that Britian is the best country in the world and to prove it here is a list of some of the things we gave the world:
Football(Soccor),Baseball,Rounders,Litriture,Shakespeare,Evolution(sorry Texes but it happened), Science,Ships,Planes,Proper Armies,Terrorism,Concentration Camps,Real national songs (jerusalam etc.), Cricket, Tanks,Paper,Freedom (for the whole of Europe),Military cock-ups,The world,The East India company,Tea,coffee,Empires (the sun never sets on the empire.),The SAS,Money,Credit cards,The knight Templar,Consiricy theories,The Royal Family(God blees 'em), Monty Python and all other British comody, The MODERN Olympics, The welsh (sorry 'bout that)
And last but by no means least we gave the world the English Language.
So tonuight when your having a drink I want you to raise your glasses to tht Middle-weight (used to be heavy weight) World war champions of the World Briton.

Your forgot the First Commanment of Statistics: Correlation does not mean causation.

No, I didn't. How I used the example originally applied for the point I was making. Pacifist Womble seemed to take issue with it, so I provided some supporting data to go along with it.

Correlation may not mean causation, but neither does it deny it.

Provide an example.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE4DB1F3BF937A35750C0A964958260

.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE4DB1F3BF937A35750C0A964958260

.

I'm sorry. I don't see my name or my handle anywhere in that article.

How is it an example of my acts?

I'm sorry. I don't see my name or my handle anywhere in that article.

How is it an example of my acts?

............... oh man..:headbang: :headbang:

............... oh man..:headbang: :headbang:
I can only agree.

Dear Myseneum, my statement was not directed specifically at you. One would expect you to surmise as much...

I can only agree.

Dear Myseneum, my statement was not directed specifically at you.

Really?

You used a subject that indicated it was indeed specifically aimed at me. Shall we take a look?

I posted;

"As an American, I will say that the US is the best nation on the planet compared to any other - past or present. What I am most proud of is our Constitution."

To which you replied;

"Then stop violating it serially."

Since my words referenced only myself and my feelings, simple logic dictates that you were also addressing me.

So, I posted;

"Provide an example."

And you provided your irrelevant NYTimes article. As I said, an article that contained nothing about me. Now, if you're going to hold me responsible for the acts of others, I suggest you make that clear such that I may refute any - shall we say - less than accurate information. If you do not make it clear, it's not my problem if I don't respond as you - or others - may see fit.

One would expect you to surmise as much...

All I can go by are your words. If you have some hidden jab, I suggest you make it plain if you want it acknowledged.

So, if you have something to say, why not say it clearly so that all may know what you are talking about and be able to reply appropriately, rather than hiding behind innuendo?

As an American, I will say that the US is the best nation......... bla bla..

he responded to that, so he responded to Americans as a whole... any sensible human being could figure that out, specially when he linked that Vietnam article....As an American..... if you had written i think as a spesific person instead, its another story, but you had written as an American. you know theres a saying " Its better to keep your mouth shut and people think you are stupid, than open it and confirm all doubt.. "

As an American, I will say that the US is the best nation......... bla bla..

he responded to that, so he responded to Americans as a whole... any sensible human being could figure that out, specially when he linked that Vietnam article.... you know theres a saying " Its better to keep your mouth shut and people think you are stupid, than open it and confirm all doubt.. "

One tiny problem... it was a pointless NY times letter to the editor, not even an article, really, he could at least have provided the op-ed piece as well. Further, the Supreme Court was created to interpret the Constitution using the power of judicial review. Service in the Armed Forces is not involuntary servitude because the Court interpreted it to be so, and more specifically, since no Court has overturned it, the precedent remains. An article and amendment is constitutional until it is reviewed by the judiciary to make sure that what was legislated is practical governance... pretty sure that's how separation of powers works. Can the system be corrupted? Absolutely. Are politicians corrupt? No doubt. Are most Americans uninformed in the processes of government? Probably. Should we still have a draft? Yes. Actually the debates of these questions are one of the things I love about this country, that the Constitution is malleable and subject to review. We've had some stupid amendments that were constitutional. I wonder how many people violated the Constitution serially during Prohibition?

One tiny problem... it was a pointless NY times letter to the editor, not even an article, really, he could at least have provided the op-ed piece as well. Further, the Supreme Court was created to interpret the Constitution using the power of judicial review. Service in the Armed Forces is not involuntary servitude because the Court interpreted it to be so, and more specifically, since no Court has overturned it, the precedent remains. An article and amendment is constitutional until it is reviewed by the judiciary to make sure that what was legislated is practical governance... pretty sure that's how separation of powers works. Can the system be corrupted? Absolutely. Are politicians corrupt? No doubt. Are most Americans uninformed in the processes of government? Probably. Should we still have a draft? Yes. Actually the debates of these questions are one of the things I love about this country, that the Constitution is malleable and subject to review. We've had some stupid amendments that were constitutional. I wonder how many people violated the Constitution serially during Prohibition?
i dont agree with the person or the article, i just agreed that it was easy to se that the article and the comment that was made in the forum was aimed to Americans as a whole not to the person in question.

As an American, I will say that the US is the best nation......... bla bla..

he responded to that,

Indeed, he did. But, there was a bit more that you so wittily snipped out so as to obscure the facts.

Let's look at the entire post that he responded to, shall we?

"As an American, I will say that the US is the best nation on the planet compared to any other - past or present. What I am most proud of is our Constitution."

Both sentences clearly indicate that I am speaking for myself, not for the country at large.

so he responded to Americans as a whole...

Why?

Americans as a whole didn't make the statement. As is evident from many Americans who post in this forum, they foolishly do not consider the US to be the the best nation on Earth. So, why would he think my statment spoke for them?

Why would he reasonably think my words spoke for anyone other than myself?

if you had written i think as a spesific person instead, its another story,

See, this is what you get by snipping before reading.

I did write as a specific person. Typically, use of the word "I" in English indicates that one is referring to an individual, not a group. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, however.

but you had written as an American.

Yes, an INDIVIDUAL American. Do you see the distinction?

you know theres a saying " Its better to keep your mouth shut and people think you are stupid, than open it and confirm all doubt.. "

Is there now...

One tiny problem... it was a pointless NY times letter to the editor, not even an article, really, he could at least have provided the op-ed piece as well. Further, the Supreme Court was created to interpret the Constitution using the power of judicial review. Service in the Armed Forces is not involuntary servitude because the Court interpreted it to be so, and more specifically, since no Court has overturned it, the precedent remains. An article and amendment is constitutional until it is reviewed by the judiciary to make sure that what was legislated is practical governance... pretty sure that's how separation of powers works. Can the system be corrupted? Absolutely. Are politicians corrupt? No doubt. Are most Americans uninformed in the processes of government? Probably. Should we still have a draft? Yes. Actually the debates of these questions are one of the things I love about this country, that the Constitution is malleable and subject to review. We've had some stupid amendments that were constitutional. I wonder how many people violated the Constitution serially during Prohibition?
Any American glorifying the Constitution should know when it has been violated, and by whom. Simply because the judiciary (which is nothing but the Executive's handmaiden) says it is not constitutional does not make it so. The Constitution's and the Bill of Rights' precise objectives were to limit government power, not to give the executive unlimited power via liberal (ie non-literal) judicial construction of its passages.

When you say "should we have a draft" what you are saying is "should the government, ie a bunch of wrinkly old idiots posing as all-knowing, paternalistic wisemen, be able to use force or the threat of force to compel me, whose rights they are meant to protect, into fighting a war I have no desire to fight."

Yes, all in the spirit of freedom.

...

:rolleyes:

To Myseneum, there is no reason to get upset over your misunderstanding me, so I'll let it drop.

mate when you write as an American you are speaking for your country, like if i am writing as a dane, im speaking for my country, and responsible for the past effects... so i would assume that he would respond to me as a dane. but if you have a different understanding of the situation so be it... i dont wanna argue any more..:cool:

To Myseneum, there is no reason to get upset over your misunderstanding me, so I'll let it drop.

I'm not upset. This is an internet forum. What is there to get upset about?

mate when you write as an American you are speaking for your country,

No, I'm not. Where do you get that silly idea?

I am not empowered to speak for all Americans. As I said, there are many Americans just on this board who do not agree with me. I do not write for them any more than I accept that they write for me.

like i am writing as a dane, im speaking for my country, and responsible for the past effects...

No and no.

I am deeply appreciative to your nation for providing aid to us in our Revolution, but that in no way means that I am appreciative to you.

And, just as I am not responsible for the US' past slavery, you are not responsible for your nation's past effects - unless you had a direct hand in them.

i dont wanna argue any more..:cool:

The only argument is that I write for myself, no one else. And, no one else writes for me.

There are way to many "Most Proud Of" stuff to choose. The Good obivously outweighs the bad...

America the Beautiful (terrific landscapes to bodies of waters to mountains, to woods, to rolling hills, etc...), The Home of the Brave (our troops in themselves are enough to be proud of), The Land of the Free (one of the most diversed nations in this world, we truly are the land of the Free.) Having God's Blessings...God Bless America.....

There are way too many "Most Proud Of" stuff to choose. The Good obivously outweighs the bad...

India the Beautiful (terrific landscapes to bodies of waters to mountains, to woods, to rolling hills, etc...), The Home of the Brave (our troops in themselves are enough to be proud of), The Land of the Free (one of the most diversed nations in this world, we truly are the land of the Free. The biggest democracy and all.) Having Gods' Blessings...Gods Bless India.....

Even as an US citizen, I have to say that I am quite 'proud' of Russia, considering the number of times in its history it's been smacked down, abused, and generally mistreated, to say nothing of the horrible things that have happened to its people.
And yet, as the events towards the end of the Time of Troubles show, messing with Russia is a REALLY bad idea in the end ;)

Its also interesting that while a lot of Russians could care less about their government, many of them are/were willing to fight and die for the country, or perhaps concept, of Russia.

And their patriotic songs beat the crap out of anybody elses.

i dont agree with the person or the article, i just agreed that it was easy to se that the article and the comment that was made in the forum was aimed to Americans as a whole not to the person in question.

I knew what you were trying to say... I just did not like the use of a letter to the editor as a citation. Hardly a scholarly work (but then using wikipedia as a citation is pretty crappy too :)

Great Britain...because its Great! It has cool National Songs, had an Empire, is where I live.

The two best things are: British Traditions
The Royal Family

There are way too many "Most Proud Of" stuff to choose. The Good obivously outweighs the bad...

India the Beautiful (terrific landscapes to bodies of waters to mountains, to woods, to rolling hills, etc...), The Home of the Brave (our troops in themselves are enough to be proud of), The Land of the Free (one of the most diversed nations in this world, we truly are the land of the Free. The biggest democracy and all.) Having Gods' Blessings...Gods Bless India.....

Isn't that awesome? :) Seriously, India is a place that deserves much success considering its long and turbulent history.

I knew what you were trying to say... I just did not like the use of a letter to the editor as a citation. Hardly a scholarly work (but then using wikipedia as a citation is pretty crappy too :)
I wasn't even going to use a source, but I figured that the person I was addressing was probably unaware of most Constitutional controversies to begin with.

As I have little pride in ZA's history, I'll go for England's since I've been living there for a while ; Classical liberalism would be what makes me admire England.

Even as an US citizen, I have to say that I am quite 'proud' of Russia, considering the number of times in its history it's been smacked down, abused, and generally mistreated, to say nothing of the horrible things that have happened to its people.
And yet, as the events towards the end of the Time of Troubles show, messing with Russia is a REALLY bad idea in the end ;)

Its also interesting that while a lot of Russians could care less about their government, many of them are/were willing to fight and die for the country, or perhaps concept, of Russia.

And their patriotic songs beat the crap out of anybody elses.

I'm actually quite fond of the old Soviet anthem... just really bombastic and cool... and too true about Russians. Man, they know how to fight when the chips are down.

I'm actually quite fond of the old Soviet anthem... just really bombastic and cool... and too true about Russians. Man, they know how to fight when the chips are down.

The current Russian anthem IS the Soviet anthem :P
They changed a few words, but its the same tune.

Even as an US citizen, I have to say that I am quite 'proud' of Russia, considering the number of times in its history it's been smacked down, abused, and generally mistreated, to say nothing of the horrible things that have happened to its people.
It has been spectacular, also, to see how it has been abusing and generally mistreating its neighbours.

And yet, as the events towards the end of the Time of Troubles show, messing with Russia is a REALLY bad idea in the end ;)True. A bully in the neighborhood sucks.

Its also interesting that while a lot of Russians could care less about their government, many of them are/were willing to fight and die for the country, or perhaps concept, of Russia.Or meek enough to be let to slaughter..?

And their patriotic songs beat the crap out of anybody elses.True.

And I found a thing I'm proud of in my country; the veterans and the dead opposing certain leaders of our beloved neighbours.

Any American glorifying the Constitution should know when it has been violated, and by whom. Simply because the judiciary (which is nothing but the Executive's handmaiden) says it is not constitutional does not make it so. The Constitution's and the Bill of Rights' precise objectives were to limit government power, not to give the executive unlimited power via liberal (ie non-literal) judicial construction of its passages.

When you say "should we have a draft" what you are saying is "should the government, ie a bunch of wrinkly old idiots posing as all-knowing, paternalistic wisemen, be able to use force or the threat of force to compel me, whose rights they are meant to protect, into fighting a war I have no desire to fight."

Yes, all in the spirit of freedom.

...

:rolleyes:

To Myseneum, there is no reason to get upset over your misunderstanding me, so I'll let it drop.

Have you read a history of the supreme court? You know how many times they have opposed the executive? The most prominent being John Marshall and Thomas Jefferson butting heads over States Rights... guess who won? Marshall... bad for the South, but in the end good in the end. The Supreme Court was dumb in upholding Dred Scott, but even then they did it to prevent war... which turned out to be the wrong thing. Then you have Lincoln getting overturned during the War Between the States, which was the right thing to do conisdering what Lincoln was doing. Even when Rehnquist was in office, he was considered a moderate, but I suppose his legacy was tainted becase he supported Bush. (you should actually read his fine book, All the Laws But One, a history of civil rights in war time... really excellent). In the end, there has been as much pro-executive decisions as anti-executive in the history of the US.

And I'm not going to argue on the draft item. You have the right to feel that way about conscience, and I feel another way. Simple as that.

Anyway, what about your country is awesome? (Aside from kruggerrands... I saw the South African born :)

It has been spectacular, also, to see how it has been abusing and generally mistreating its neighbours.

True. A bully in the neighborhood sucks.

Or meek enough to be let to slaughter..?

True.

And I found a thing I'm proud of in my country; the veterans and the dead opposing certain leaders of our beloved neighbour.

1. Be fair. Russia's neighbors did their own share of abusing and mistreating in their time. No, its not an excuse, but the point is that its hard to be a power without abusing and mistreating somebody.

2. You mean Poland? Yeah, they were a bit of a bully back in the 1600's.

3. Depends on whose getting slaughtered. Tsarist Russia was remarkably accepting of other peoples and cultures when compared to, say, the United Kingdom. Sure, they occasionally slaughtered some of the more troublesome minorities, and some Jews here and there, but again, name me a world power that HASNT, at some point in its career, slaughtered some people.

4. Glad we agree on SOMETHING then ;)

I wasn't even going to use a source, but I figured that the person I was addressing was probably unaware of most Constitutional controversies to begin with.

As I have little pride in ZA's history, I'll go for England's since I've been living there for a while ; Classical liberalism would be what makes me admire England.

You were, in fact, wrong... if you were addressing me that is. Since I cited at least 4 and offered you a book on the subject, I know about a few controversies... not that I claim to be a scholar on Constitutional Law, more a Medieval and Crusade historian with some background in Theology; however, most American universities drum so much US history into you, almost all history students become US history specialists by default :)

1. Be fair. Russia's neighbors did their own share of abusing and mistreating in their time. No, its not an excuse, but the point is that its hard to be a power without abusing and mistreating somebody.

2. You mean Poland? Yeah, they were a bit of a bully back in the 1600's.

3. Depends on whose getting slaughtered. Tsarist Russia was remarkably accepting of other peoples and cultures when compared to, say, the United Kingdom. Sure, they occasionally slaughtered some of the more troublesome minorities, and some Jews here and there, but again, name me a world power that HASNT, at some point in its career, slaughtered some people.

4. Glad we agree on SOMETHING then ;)
Oh, we agree on many things.
1. All of them didn't, but every one felt the pressure.
2. No, I mean Finland. Threat much?
3. I guess
4. We agree, I believe, that Russia has too long been governed by utter fools. Whether it be Tsars, soviets or... well, Tsars and Soviets.

1. Be fair. Russia's neighbors did their own share of abusing and mistreating in their time. No, its not an excuse, but the point is that its hard to be a power without abusing and mistreating somebody.

2. You mean Poland? Yeah, they were a bit of a bully back in the 1600's.

3. Depends on whose getting slaughtered. Tsarist Russia was remarkably accepting of other peoples and cultures when compared to, say, the United Kingdom. Sure, they occasionally slaughtered some of the more troublesome minorities, and some Jews here and there, but again, name me a world power that HASNT, at some point in its career, slaughtered some people.

4. Glad we agree on SOMETHING then ;)

I think the Finns do have a few grievances against Russia... but then so do the Poles.

Have you read a history of the supreme court? You know how many times they have opposed the executive? The most prominent being John Marshall and Thomas Jefferson butting heads over States Rights... guess who won? Marshall... bad for the South, but in the end good in the end. The Supreme Court was dumb in upholding Dred Scott, but even then they did it to prevent war... which turned out to be the wrong thing. Then you have Lincoln getting overturned during the War Between the States, which was the right thing to do conisdering what Lincoln was doing. Even when Rehnquist was in office, he was considered a moderate, but I suppose his legacy was tainted becase he supported Bush. (you should actually read his fine book, All the Laws But One, a history of civil rights in war time... really excellent). In the end, there has been as much pro-executive decisions as anti-executive in the history of the US.
Hopefully the future will see the Executive curtailing its powers back to a bare minimum.

And I'm not going to argue on the draft item. You have the right to feel that way about conscience, and I feel another way. Simple as that.
If the US arrogates the imposition of the draft, it loses its claim to being the land of free. Simple. It devolves into using the totalitarian methods that other countries have no shame in advocating. A pity.

Anyway, what about your country is awesome? (Aside from kruggerrands... I saw the South African born :)
Beyond the landscape, some of the Boorevolk and Tolkien, very little. I have about as much love for it as Rand fostered for her true homeland.

You were, in fact, wrong... if you were addressing me that is.
No, not you.

Oh, we agree on many things.
1. All of them didn't, but every one felt the pressure.
2. No, I mean Finland. Threat much?
3. I guess
4. We agree, I believe, that Russia has been too long been governed by utter fools.

1. Who hasnt, then? The most 'innocent' (former) power in the area is Sweden.

2. Blame Sweden :P

3/4. Russia seems to operate on the basis of one good leader every few decades, followed by a string of not-so-great ones. The only problem is that their best leaders tend to be the worst in terms of human rights records :P
Ivan IV, Peter, Catherine, Stalin...to name a few off the top of my head, did great things for Russia as a whole, but I sure as hell wouldnt want to be ruled by them.

I think the Finns do have a few grievances against Russia... but then so do the Poles.
I think all of Russias neighbors have grievances against them. After all, the eleven or so Russo-Turkish wars that were recorded dont exactly bode well for a good relationship. Nor the five Russo-Persian wars. Or the nine Russo-Swedish Wars.
Not to mention the Great Game, thrusts into the Balkans, conquest of Siberia and parts of Manchuria, various Central European states/peoples, and, of course, the Finns (although, as part of Sweden, I think they were considered fair game at that point :P)

No, not you.

No worries then :)

I think all of Russias neighbors have grievances against them. After all, the eleven or so Russo-Turkish wars that were recorded dont exactly bode well for a good relationship. Nor the five Russo-Persian wars. Or the nine Russo-Swedish Wars.
Not to mention the Great Game, thrusts into the Balkans, conquest of Siberia and parts of Manchuria, various Central European states/peoples, and, of course, the Finns (although, as part of Sweden, I think they were considered fair game at that point :P)
Allright, yes. Education coming through. Finland was part of Russia since 1809. So in the Balkan push they were in Russia's side. And so valued part of the Empire that they were given a Grand-Duchy status with wide autonomous status. Go wiki it.

I might've been talking about the Winter war earlier, though. Ring any bells? Unprovoked attack in 1939..?

Your achievements are built on those of others. Nothing happens in isolation.


My achievements are built on the achievements of mankind, not just those of one particularly country or culture. And I'm grateful to them all. But I'm only proud of things I can take the credit for myself. Everything else would seem ... dishonest.

I British and I must say that Britian is the best country in the world and to prove it here is a list of some of the things we gave the world:
Football(Soccor),Baseball,Rounders,Litriture,Shakespeare,Evolution(sorry Texes but it happened), Science,Ships,Planes,Proper Armies,Terrorism,Concentration Camps,Real national songs (jerusalam etc.), Cricket, Tanks,Paper,Freedom (for the whole of Europe),Military cock-ups,The world,The East India company,Tea,coffee,Empires (the sun never sets on the empire.),The SAS,Money,Credit cards,The knight Templar,Consiricy theories,The Royal Family(God blees 'em), Monty Python and all other British comody, The MODERN Olympics, The welsh (sorry 'bout that)
And last but by no means least we gave the world the English Language.
So tonuight when your having a drink I want you to raise your glasses to tht Middle-weight (used to be heavy weight) World war champions of the World Briton.

If you're proud of the English Language then learn to spell :P

Soccer
Literature
Texas
Jerusalem
Conspiracy
Comedy
Tonight

I'm British AND Dyslexic :P If I can cope you can too. Oh and spaces after commas would be good too :P

I British and I must say that Britian is the best country in the world and to prove it here is a list of some of the things we gave the world:
Football(Soccor),Baseball,Rounders,Litriture,Shakespeare,Evolution(sorry Texes but it happened), Science,Ships,Planes,Proper Armies,Terrorism,Concentration Camps,Real national songs (jerusalam etc.), Cricket, Tanks,Paper,Freedom (for the whole of Europe),Military cock-ups,The world,The East India company,Tea,coffee,Empires (the sun never sets on the empire.),The SAS,Money,Credit cards,The knight Templar,Consiricy theories,The Royal Family(God blees 'em), Monty Python and all other British comody, The MODERN Olympics, The welsh (sorry 'bout that)
And last but by no means least we gave the world the English Language.
So tonuight when your having a drink I want you to raise your glasses to tht Middle-weight (used to be heavy weight) World war champions of the World Briton.

Just to set a few things straight :

Britain didn't invent literature, that has been in existence for several millenia before the British even learned to write.
Britain didn't invent ships, those have been around since prehistoric times.
Science wasn't invented by any one country, it's constantly being worked on by all humanity.
Britain invented neither paper (the Egyptians and the Chinese did that independently), nor did it bring either tea or coffee to Europe, both were brought by Dutch companies.
The Knights Templar were French, letters of credit were first used by said Knights Templar, and the credit card itself was invented in the USA.
Oh, and the phrase that "the sun never sets on [his] empire" was coined by Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor. It was first used to describe the Spanish empire in the 16th century.

This is quite tough.
Toss up between rugby team or our enviroment. Leaning slightly towards the enviroment.

As a British citizen, I am proud of...

Fish & Chips.

What I am most proud of is our Constitution.
I'm extremely proud of the fundamental design of the American government, including the Constitution. There are just so many cool ideas that the Founders worked into it, so many different checks and balances and stuff. Even though it doesn't always work smoothly in practice, I still think it's wicked sweet.

I'm extremely proud of the fundamental design of the American government, including the Constitution. There are just so many cool ideas that the Founders worked into it, so many different checks and balances and stuff. Even though it doesn't always work smoothly in practice, I still think it's wicked sweet.
I think the US Constitution is awesome too, but it needs to be reworked on some levels, so as to reinstate its limitations on your government. Some would argue that no Constitution provides a good enough defence against government without a truly independent judiciary (if such a thing is even possible).

I'm happy that the country I happen to live in has historically been very open to immegration and diversity. when I lived in new york city, I could share a subway car with people of a dozen races without even trying. of course, I had nothing to do with this, so I am not proud of it - the country was set up by people who largely were not related to me, and only happens to be where my family was for the most part already living, so I don't really think of it as "my" country...and nowadays there's a large number of people who are taking a hateful anti-immegration stance, so even if I was proud of it initially I wouldn't be anymore...

I could say the U.S. Constitution, or the Declaration of Independence...but I don't want to repeat the same old stuff.

Besides, I'd rather my choice be a little less grandiose, and a little more recent in history.

There's one option that stands out...

http://www.peacecorps.gov/

I could say the U.S. Constitution, or the Declaration of Independence...but I don't want to repeat the same old stuff.

Besides, I'd rather my choice be a little less grandiose, and a little more recent in history.

There's one option that stands out...

http://www.peacecorps.gov/Oooh, I've worked with people volunteering with the Peacecorps. Great people, all of them, and very dedicated to what they were doing. Unfortunately, neither the peacecorp nor the organization I was volunteering for, work in Uzbekistan. I remembered when I first heard that the Peacecorp was being withdrawn. I was quite upset to think about all the people who had been working so hard, and in mid-project, having to pull out. I know pretty much all of them wanted to stay, but weren't going to recieve any more funding and had to leave. :(

Chinese

- 5.000 years-old history. It will still continue today without being totally destroyed internally by rebels, or externally by other imperialistic powers such as the Mongols, the Europeans, and the Americans.

- Major cultural influence. Japan, Korea, and Vietnam bought our culture since 3.500 years ago. Without it, they couldn't even build up their capital and their social system.

- Philosophy and ancient strategy. We have Kong Fu Tze (Confucius), Meng Tze (encius), Lao Zi (Tao). We have Chu Ko Liang (Zhuge Liang) and Sun Tzu for war strategies.

- Ancient inventions. Gunpowders, papers, compass, sea junks, all were invented before the Europeans know how to explore the world.

- Important role in the Silk Road. We were the only major exporter to the Middle East and the European continent. Without it, the Europeans will never get spices before they were able to set sail across the world.

- Cultural power. The Mongols could not totally conquer us, because they were finally Sinicized. So did the Manchus. They were all assimilated into our culture.

- Global diaspora. We have more than a half million diaspore spread across the world, from the mountains in South America to the cities in North America, from Europe to Africa, and most in Asia Pacific, especially in Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, the Philippines, Indonesia, and Australia.

- Economic power, backed by a billion manpower. Since the latest 1980s, we opened our borders to the world. Many major corporations ran their companies inside China, Hong Kong, Macau, and Taiwan. Cheap labor costs made production becomes efficient. Annual economic growth since 2000 was approximately 8.9%.

- Neutrality in foreign affairs. We never declare war against any nations. We never support a particular country to do war against other countries. It makes us safe from terror and pirating attacks. Almost all countries in the 3rd world welcome us as helper and assistant, rather than conquerors and war criminals. They like to trade with us, as a return for our supports. Ask Africa. Ask Southeast Asia. Ask Pakistan. Ask the Middle East. :)

- Peaceful rise. Although we are modernizing our army, it doesn't mean that we are going to take the entire world for ourselves. We never intervere in many nations. We never ask them to embrace 'communism'. All we want is for them to respect us as well as we respect them.

- Political stability. Thanks to a single communist party, we now don't have any kind of rebellions and separation within the country. Yes, it's true that our freedom may be restricted by the party, but in fact, it brings stability. Stability leads us to growth. Growth leads us to even greater growth. Growth makes the people prosper. We love the communist government. Our people need dicipline, instead of democracy. China is different than the US. It's fine if the US needs democracy more than dicipline.

- National wonders. Great Wall of China, Forbidden City, Terracotta Warriors, Three Gorges Dam.

- Unique social structure based on Confucianism.

- Sports. We could match the US in the Olympics. We got the first rank in Asian Games.

our inherent skepticism (sorry for spelling) and general coldness and fatalism.

The Great British Sense of Humour (That nobody else really gets)

EDIT: Oh and for dragging ourselves and the world kicking and screaming into the Industrial Age

I wasn't even going to use a source, but I figured that the person I was addressing was probably unaware of most Constitutional controversies to begin with.

I am quite aware of constitutional controversies. I have been invited to write in two newspapers and have debated Michel Rocard of the UN in the Washington Times. Granted, only twice, but it still happened.

The Great British Sense of Humour (That nobody else really gets)
I love it. :) Especially Catherine Tate.

There is land, there are animals and plants. There are people. They are not mine, nor I theirs.

I am a citizen of a nation. I have no choice, other than to be a citizen of some other nation. This I call slavery.

"I pledge my troth to my lord, because he keeps me safe. Oh, and he'd whip my arse if I didn't. Kiss the boot, it's less odious than having it ground into your face."

And this also: was it really Science which has struck the mortal blow to religion? Or was it the Nation-state?

Thus spake Zarastha-guy-who-cant-spell-his-own-name.

I love it. :) Especially Catherine Tate.

IMO, Catherine Tate is one of the poorer representations of British Comedy.

IMO, Catherine Tate is one of the poorer representations of British Comedy.
I like how she mocks the chavs with Lauren... and of course nan is a good laugh. :D So then, who is to your liking?

IMO, Catherine Tate is one of the poorer representations of British Comedy.

at least he/she did'nt say little britain

at least he/she did'nt say little britain
He.

I haven't actually seen Little Britain.

The Great British Sense of Humour (That nobody else really gets)

EDIT: Oh and for dragging ourselves and the world kicking and screaming into the Industrial Age

Oh come now, I get it perfectly. No other humor is so incredibly complex, and simple, so incredibly wet, and dry, and so incredibly funny, and not funny, as British comedy.

The funniest part about it all is the fact that it is somehow able to be funny while being absolutely dry.

As for America...

Uh...

When referring to our country, we can tell people we are "Us".
:p