NationStates Jolt Archive

what is it with people and this "us and them" mentality?

I have run into it way too many times lately, and I just wanna know, what's the deal?!

My husband's grandmother doesn't like me because I from a different Christian denomination than she, my neighbor's don't trust me because I am a different race and religion then they are, the teenagers down the block don't like me because I am a "grown up", my sister who is a scientist doesn't like me because I am religious and a friend of a friend doesn't like me because I am a "hippy" (whatever that means :confused:)

I tell you I don't really care if any of these people like me or not, but it's just stupid to not like someone because they are different right? I don't like everyone, but really I hope I don't have this "us vs. them" default that seems to be causing so many problems.

so........us vs. them? are there people you don't like by default? or are you a nice person who hates everyone individually?

Tribalistic mentalities persist because they provide some rewards that many individuals desire. In-group bonding is one good example; the feeling of closeness and shared purpose that comes from facing a common enemy is very nice, in and of itself, but it does require that there be an "us" and a "them."

to many people get some kind of profit out of it. mostly "leader" kind of people who often need an enemy to maintain their position. its also easier to dislike people who are different than to try to bridge the gap.

Tribalistic mentalities persist because they provide some rewards that many individuals desire. In-group bonding is one good example; the feeling of closeness and shared purpose that comes from facing a common enemy is very nice, in and of itself, but it does require that there be an "us" and a "them."

I don't think the mentalities are tribalistic - I think they're modern mentalities. I remember a documentary about a dude going into the Amazon and despite being white and not being able to speak a word of their language (though I think he had an interpreter with him), the tribe (who were black) were amazingly welcoming and had massive smiles on their faces when they saw him again. The only time any of them seemed unhappy was when they watched a video recording of themselves (they had never seen such technology before and it is possible (though I'm not saying this is the case) that they thought it was some kind of bad magic) - but the rest of the time they were LOADS more times friendly than say an English or Western American (non-native*) person would be to a foreigner.

*"Native American" is the correct term for a person commonly known as a "Red Indian"

It goes back to the cliques of High School.

People of similar interests will gather around and stick together, and one of the "Bonding" agents is the threat of the ever present "Them."

whether it be Gays, Communists, Terrorist, Fanatics, Left-handed people, Handicapped, Religous, Scientific, people of ethic blood, Mac users, people who like bowties, whatever.

all we can do is slowly wear away the differences to the point where it's not "Us vs. Them" but "Us with differences"

until that day tho... :fluffle:

I hate the us versus them mentality. Go team go, ra ra ra.

It's pretty common on these boards. Its' "liberals" versus "conservatives," "leftists" versus "the right," "people who support Israel's right to kill civilians" versus "anti-semitic nazis," on and on and on. Blah.

I hate the us versus them mentality. Go team go, ra ra ra.

It's pretty common on these boards. Its' "liberals" versus "conservatives," "leftists" versus "the right," "people who support Israel's right to kill civilians" versus "anti-semitic nazis," on and on and on. Blah.



Blaaarg, It's always going to be the same though huh! As long as their are people that think like me there shall be people that think the opposite to me. Heheh what can be done about it, ummm nowt.

Not many “us” around here, so I just judge people by their actions. I do find myself often included in “them” though. I can understand the appeal of wanting to be around people like yourself and there being enough of you to exclude others. Must be nice.

Sadly enough, too many people are defined by what they are against as opposed to what they are for. People require "the Other" to justify thier own existance.

Tribalistic mentalities persist because they provide some rewards that many individuals desire. In-group bonding is one good example; the feeling of closeness and shared purpose that comes from facing a common enemy is very nice, in and of itself, but it does require that there be an "us" and a "them."

I hate people who use words like "tribalistic." :p Especially before I can use it.

I think Bottle has a point, the feeling of solidarity within a group is particularly nice in uncertain times. It's always better to feel that the troubles of the world are caused by a vast conspiracy of whomever you happen to fasten on rather than being something you, too, might be responsible for, at least partially. And if you're partially responsible, heaven help us, you might be obliged to get up and do something about it.

Hey, don't blame us for this mentality, it's their fault!

Blaaarg, It's always going to be the same though huh! As long as their are people that think like me there shall be people that think the opposite to me. Heheh what can be done about it, ummm nowt.

No, it's not about "people that think the opposite of me." It's about people lumping all of humanity into one of two arbitrary groups and then assuming one of those groups is the Good Guys, the other the Bad Guys.

99.9% of other religions are heathens.
Black people are 100% more likely to be a different skin colour than white people.
There's a 25% chance of me sleeping with your mom today.
98.3% of all yo momma jokes suck.

I BRING YOU STATISTICS! STATISTICS FROM MY ANUS!

Question: You prefer people disliking you for what you are or people that likes you for what you have?

the feeling of closeness and shared purpose that comes from facing a common enemy is very nice, in and of itself, but it does require that there be an "us" and a "them."

Spot on. Most people require a "them" in order to define and identify a group they can feel a part of. Which in itself is not unhealthy, but the problem starts when people instinctively reject "them" in order to secure that comforting sense of "us".

No, it's not about "people that think the opposite of me." It's about people lumping all of humanity into one of two arbitrary groups and then assuming one of those groups is the Good Guys, the other the Bad Guys.


Heheh whilst I don't agree with you really(not all people do that) I understand what you mean. Yet I guess what you say serves to emphasis the whole point though huh!

Question: You prefer people disliking you for what you are or people that likes you for what you have?

I don't like people not liking me for superficial reasons.

I don't like people not liking me for superficial reasons.

Whilst I don't mind what reson I am disliked for :p

99.9% of other religions are heathens.
Black people are 100% more likely to be a different skin colour than white people.
There's a 25% chance of me sleeping with your mom today.
98.3% of all yo momma jokes suck.

I BRING YOU STATISTICS! STATISTICS FROM MY ANUS!

And 72% of statistics are made up.

I don't like people not liking me for superficial reasons.

Look at it this way; some guy cuts you off while driving. You call him "asshole," and continue your drive. He might not be an asshole, but you disliked him a moment, if for nothing more than cutting you off. True you might not make much of it, but its a similar idea.

Look at it this way; some guy cuts you off while driving. You call him "asshole," and continue your drive. He might not be an asshole, but you disliked him a moment, if for nothing more than cutting you off. True you might not make much of it, but its a similar idea.

but.......if he cuts me off he obviously is.........:p

I think all of us have the "us" and "them" mentality, to a point. Many of us would like to be perfectly open-minded and judge people only on their own merits, but there is often a snap-reaction, often of fear, to differentness and that reaction can color the rest of our interaction with the person.

I think the goal should be to recognize that reaction for what it is and minimize its effect on our relationships and our lives. The people you are describing, however, don't do so. They take that snap-reaction and just go with it, somehow comfortable in the idea that those who are different can have nothing to offer. That I don't understand. =(

what is it with people and this "us and them" mentality?

I have run into it way too many times lately, and I just wanna know, what's the deal?!

My husband's grandmother doesn't like me because I from a different Christian denomination than she, my neighbor's don't trust me because I am a different race and religion then they are, the teenagers down the block don't like me because I am a "grown up", my sister who is a scientist doesn't like me because I am religious and a friend of a friend doesn't like me because I am a "hippy" (whatever that means :confused:)

I tell you I don't really care if any of these people like me or not, but it's just stupid to not like someone because they are different right? I don't like everyone, but really I hope I don't have this "us vs. them" default that seems to be causing so many problems.

so........us vs. them? are there people you don't like by default? or are you a nice person who hates everyone individually?


There is another possibility here...the paranoid form of a disorder. One where you develop delusions of persecution or personal grandeur, could that be happening here? The first signs of paranoid schizophrenia usually surface between the ages of 15 and 34, are you between 15 and 34? If so, don't worry too much, there is no cure but the disorder can be controlled with medications. Severe attacks may require hospitalization so you should have your husband watch for that...

some of the symptoms might include:

• Confusion
• Inability to make decisions
• Hallucinations
• Changes in eating or sleeping habits, energy level, or weight
• Delusions
• Nervousness
• Strange statements or behavior
• Withdrawal from friends, work, or school
• Neglect of personal hygiene
• Anger
• Indifference to the opinions of others
• A tendency to argue
• A conviction that you are better than others, or that people are out to get you




;)








Haha, J/K. :p

Look at it this way; some guy cuts you off while driving. You call him "asshole," and continue your drive. He might not be an asshole, but you disliked him a moment, if for nothing more than cutting you off. True you might not make much of it, but its a similar idea.

He took an action that is either the action of an asshole, or a very inattentive driver (who may as well be an asshole). He might be an otherwise nice guy, but the asshole action would be all I'd have to go on.

With actual superficial reasons, on the other hand, you literally have nothing. When a neo-Nazi skinhead sees a black person he has never met walking down the street, that person has done nothing to him, but the skinhead automatically dislikes him and labels him as inferior. That is nothing at all akin to disliking someone for something they have actually done.

There is another possibility here...the paranoid form of a disorder. One where you develop delusions of persecution or personal grandeur, could that be happening here? The first signs of paranoid schizophrenia usually surface between the ages of 15 and 34, are you between 15 and 34? If so, don't worry too much, there is no cure but the disorder can be controlled with medications. Severe attacks may require hospitalization so you should have your husband watch for that...

some of the symptoms might include:

• Confusion
• Inability to make decisions
• Hallucinations
• Changes in eating or sleeping habits, energy level, or weight
• Delusions
• Nervousness
• Strange statements or behavior
• Withdrawal from friends, work, or school
• Neglect of personal hygiene
• Anger
• Indifference to the opinions of others
• A tendency to argue
• A conviction that you are better than others, or that people are out to get you




;)
:eek:










Haha, J/K. :p

:p you had me worried......... *seeks help*

seriously, a lot of people in my family are mentally ill, I think I might have escaped with substance abuse issues and OCD though.........I hope so anyway.

i have a default dislike towards chavs :) (is that bad?)

what is it with people and this "us and them" mentality?

I have run into it way too many times lately, and I just wanna know, what's the deal?!

My husband's grandmother doesn't like me because I from a different Christian denomination than she, my neighbor's don't trust me because I am a different race and religion then they are, the teenagers down the block don't like me because I am a "grown up", my sister who is a scientist doesn't like me because I am religious and a friend of a friend doesn't like me because I am a "hippy" (whatever that means :confused:)

I tell you I don't really care if any of these people like me or not, but it's just stupid to not like someone because they are different right? I don't like everyone, but really I hope I don't have this "us vs. them" default that seems to be causing so many problems.

so........us vs. them? are there people you don't like by default? or are you a nice person who hates everyone individually?

People tend to define themselves on the basis of what they aren't rather then what they are, and many need to feel persecuted to feel like they *know* themselves.

Countless conservatives would be lost without the "liberal agenda" and "leftists" looming over society, threatening their "way of life." Likewise, just as many liberals NEED George W. Bush to be the boogeyman that they can condemn and revile, they NEED a war to define their moral high ground (look at Vietnam). Christians need their heathens, Muslims need their infidels, and Atheists need God. What the hell would being "white' mean if there wasn't anything else? It's not just the weak and ignorant either, even truly intelligent people need something to hate to define what they believe. Even if it's just them against the stupid.

Opposition and animosity has a way of unifying people. And those people crave the unity, the security, and the fellowship that comes with being among people like them, standing against people unlike them.

Yes, it is tribalistic. Yes, it is primitive. No, it isn't necessarily how *everyone* is, but it's pretty damn consistent with any given group or "label."

People tend to define themselves on the basis of what they aren't rather then what they are, and many need to feel persecuted to feel like they *know* themselves.

Countless conservatives would be lost without the "liberal agenda" and "leftists" looming over society, threatening their "way of life." Likewise, just as many liberals NEED George W. Bush to be the boogeyman that they can condemn and revile, they NEED a war to define their moral high ground (look at Vietnam). Christians need their heathens, Muslims need their infidels, and Atheists need God. What the hell would being "white' mean if there wasn't anything else? It's not just the weak and ignorant either, even truly intelligent people need something to hate to define what they believe.

Opposition and animosity has a way of unifying people. And those people crave the unity, the security, and the fellowship that comes with being among people like them, standing against people unlike them.

Yes, it is tribalistic. Yes, it is primitive. No, it isn't necessarily how *everyone* is, but it's pretty damn consistent with any given group or "label."

Yes, well ... interesting thing about Vietnam, of course, is that the war was the product of one of the most socially liberal administrations in US history. But yes, people do like having easily defined bogeymen around. Otherwise one might have to think, and that makes one's head hurt, and leads to uncomfortable thoughts of hypocrisy and such.

what is it with people and this "us and them" mentality?
Just another retarded human flaw from the backwaters of prehistory.

Yes, well ... interesting thing about Vietnam, of course, is that the war was the product of one of the most socially liberal administrations in US history. But yes, people do like having easily defined bogeymen around. Otherwise one might have to think, and that makes one's head hurt, and leads to uncomfortable thoughts of hypocrisy and such.

Precisely.

Us vs. Them is a decidedly emotional response to perceived reality. There is very little higher cognition involved. Just like with people who only accept new information if it supports what they already believe, discarding everything else as a threat or falsehood.

See Confirmation Bias. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias)

Drew Westen and a team from Emory University announced at the annual Society for Personality and Social Psychology conference in Palm Springs, California the results of a study showing the brain activity for confirmation bias. Their results suggest the unconscious and emotion driven nature of this form of bias.

The study was carried out during the pre-electoral period of the 2004 presidential election on 30 men, half who described themselves as strong Republicans and half as strong Democrats. During a functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) scan the subjects were asked to assess contradictory statements by both George W. Bush and John Kerry. The scans showed that the part of the brain associated with reasoning, the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex, was not involved when assessing the statements. Conversely, the most active regions of the brain were those involved in processing emotions (orbitofrontal cortex), conflict resolution (anterior cingulate cortex) and making judgment about moral accountability (posterior cingulate cortex). [1]

Dr. Westen summarised the work: [2]
“ None of the circuits involved in conscious reasoning were particularly engaged. Essentially, it appears as if partisans twirl the cognitive kaleidoscope until they get the conclusions they want, and then they get massively reinforced for it, with the elimination of negative emotional states and activation of positive ones... Everyone from executives and judges to scientists and politicians may reason to emotionally biased judgments when they have a vested interest in how to interpret 'the facts'.

what is it with people and this "us and them" mentality?

I have run into it way too many times lately, and I just wanna know, what's the deal?!

My husband's grandmother doesn't like me because I from a different Christian denomination than she, my neighbor's don't trust me because I am a different race and religion then they are, the teenagers down the block don't like me because I am a "grown up", my sister who is a scientist doesn't like me because I am religious and a friend of a friend doesn't like me because I am a "hippy" (whatever that means :confused:)

I tell you I don't really care if any of these people like me or not, but it's just stupid to not like someone because they are different right? I don't like everyone, but really I hope I don't have this "us vs. them" default that seems to be causing so many problems.

so........us vs. them? are there people you don't like by default? or are you a nice person who hates everyone individually?
I believe in us v. them. There some people or groups that I just don't like and can't trust.

Smunkee... welcome to Earth.

The blackjack and hookers are over on that side. The smart people are sitting at the table in the corner right there. Avoid everyone else.

The sooner people realize that being of one specific group or another is neither a character reference nor condemnation the better off we'll all be.

My husband's grandmother doesn't like me because I from a different Christian denomination than she,
Did she really tell you that she doesn't like you because of your religion?

my neighbor's don't trust me because I am a different race and religion then they are,
Your neighbours told you that they don't trust you, or is it that you don't trust them?

the teenagers down the block don't like me because I am a "grown up",
Did the teenagers tell you that they don't like you or do you assume this, or that you don't like them?

my sister who is a scientist doesn't like me because I am religious
Did your sister say she doesn't like you because you believe in God?

and a friend of a friend doesn't like me because I am a "hippy" (whatever that means :confused:)
Have you tried being friendly to the friend of a friend or perhaps you don't like him/her?

I tell you I don't really care if any of these people like me or not, but it's just stupid to not like someone because they are different right?
If people don't like me becuse I am "different" that is their problem, not mine.

I don't like everyone, but really I hope I don't have this "us vs. them" default that seems to be causing so many problems.
God says that we have to love everyone. He didn't tell us that we have to like everything they do. Besides, being a Christian, you can always pray for them?

so........us vs. them? are there people you don't like by default? or are you a nice person who hates everyone individually?
A heart full of hate has no room for love. Love yourself, love others and if they don't love you back.....oh well.

Did she really tell you that she doesn't like you because of your religion?
she has stated that.


Your neighbours told you that they don't trust you, or is it that you don't trust them?
he said he doesn't trust Christians, on another occasion he said that he doesn't trust white people, because they are evil.


Did the teenagers tell you that they don't like you or do you assume this, or that you don't like them?
I assume this from their actions.


Did your sister say she doesn't like you because you believe in God?
yep.


Have you tried being friendly to the friend of a friend or perhaps you don't like him/her?
tried, failed.




God says that we have to love everyone. He didn't tell us that we have to like everything they do. Besides, being a Christian, you can always pray for them?
always.


A heart full of hate has no room for love. Love yourself, love others and if they don't love you back.....oh well.
I don't hate anyone.

he said he doesn't trust Christians, on another occasion he said that he doesn't trust white people, because they are evil.

What ethnicity is he?

How offensive, especially with my disdain for firearms. Unfixing it, since I didn't say that, would be nice.....thanks.

I know all about that, I was making a rather poor and overused joke.

Whatever. Unfix'd.


As an aside, love is in reality a highly destructive emotion and can be turned to hate with an extremely simple action; they aren't opposites by a long shot. Even non-physical love can be dangerous, although as it is not caused by or related to a significant chemical imbalance in the brain, it is far less likely to result in suicide or environmental catastrophe. Having this kind of love destroyed and exploited the way love always is -- as it is an emotion and therefore a sign of weakness -- often leads to a sort of sad but brave look and an ever-springing naïve hope, which, while annoying, is perfectly harmless. Less frequently it drives one to depression.

Meh. Enough psychologising.

What ethnicity is he?

he is black and Muslim (in case you were wondering about his religion) he seems to be rather intolerant though and I am sure doesn't represent either his race, or religion well. (well, actually his gender either, he's pretty rude to me)

I thought this thread was going to be about the Pink Floyd anit-war song on side 2 of Dark Side of the Moon. :(

But, as someone who has embraced their alienation, I do sympathize :fluffle:

I think Barney Gumble said it best when talking to Lisa Simpson.

Or Roger Waters/Pink Floyd

Us and Them
Us, and them
And after all were only ordinary men.
Me, and you.
God only knows its not what we would choose to do.
Forward he cried from the rear
And the front rank died.
And the general sat and the lines on the map
Moved from side to side.
Black and blue
And who knows which is which and who is who.
Up and down.
But in the end its only round and round.
Havent you heard its a battle of words
The poster bearer cried.
Listen son, said the man with the gun
Theres room for you inside.

I mean, theyre not gunna kill ya, so if you give em a quick short,
Sharp, shock, they wont do it again. dig it? I mean he get off
Lightly, cos I wouldve given him a thrashing - I only hit him once!
It was only a difference of opinion, but really...i mean good manners
Dont cost nothing do they, eh?

Down and out
It cant be helped but theres a lot of it about.
With, without.
And wholl deny its what the fightings all about?
Out of the way, its a busy day
Ive got things on my mind.
For the want of the price of tea and a slice
The old man died.

he is black and Muslim (in case you were wondering about his religion) he seems to be rather intolerant though and I am sure doesn't represent either his race, or religion well. (well, actually his gender either, he's pretty rude to me)

Has he explained why he thinks white people are evil?

I thought this thread was going to be about the Pink Floyd anit-war song on side 2 of Dark Side of the Moon. :(

But, as someone who has embraced their alienation, I do sympathize :fluffle:

I think that I have come to the conclusion today that all in all I am not a very likable person. I think I can live with that though.

Has he explained why he thinks white people are evil?
we used to have slaves.

I explained to him that my family came here as refugee's long after the civil war and that we never had slaves, but he doesn't care.

I believe in us v. them. There some people or groups that I just don't like and can't trust.

*waves Them flag*
Go Them go!
;)

Smunkee, if a Muslim complains to you about slavery, just remind them of all the Young Christian taken into slavery by the muslim hordes back in the day.
Mumalukes and such.

I love hypocracy.

we used to have slaves.

I explained to him that my family came here as refugee's long after the civil war and that we never had slaves, but he doesn't care.

So he believes melanin is a slavedriver repressor. How widespread is racism against whites in the black population in the US?

we used to have slaves.

I explained to him that my family came here as refugee's long after the civil war and that we never had slaves, but he doesn't care.

Did you tell him that Arab Muslims were responcible for one of the most brutal slave trades in history, long before the European explorers touched Africa?

Like I was saying about confirmation bias, it wouldn't make a difference. He wouldn't even think about it. White people are evil, why believe what they say?

Hey, don't blame us for this mentality, it's their fault!

Ah, now that's my other pet hate -the lack of responsibility that exists in today's world. Nobody's willing to own up to their goofs.

what is it with people and this "us and them" mentality?

I have run into it way too many times lately, and I just wanna know, what's the deal?!

My husband's grandmother doesn't like me because I from a different Christian denomination than she, my neighbor's don't trust me because I am a different race and religion then they are, the teenagers down the block don't like me because I am a "grown up", my sister who is a scientist doesn't like me because I am religious and a friend of a friend doesn't like me because I am a "hippy" (whatever that means :confused:)

I tell you I don't really care if any of these people like me or not, but it's just stupid to not like someone because they are different right? I don't like everyone, but really I hope I don't have this "us vs. them" default that seems to be causing so many problems.

so........us vs. them? are there people you don't like by default? or are you a nice person who hates everyone individually?
It's instinctual, part of the survival instinct, really. It's something that we might eventually evolve beyond if society has enough time to exist. That would require at least another 10,000 years or so, though.

I feel almost like a newbie again... no-one seems to respond to my posts unless they're offensive....

so........us vs. them? are there people you don't like by default? or are you a nice person who hates everyone individually?

I can honestly say that I try not to judge people in groups. I do judge their actions on an individual basis, but I perfer to give the person committing the action the benefit of the doubt.

in the words of one of my favorite hyms:

Who am I to judge another
when I walk imperfectly
In the quiet heart is hidden
sorrow that the eye can't see
Who am I to judge another
Lord I would follow thee

ya see? see? this is why I say the damn aliens should come and invade us. The whole human race would look at each other and think "us" regardless of colour or creed and look at the hostile invaders and think "them".

Just wait till one lands in my backyard and leaves the keys in his ship, I'm going for a joyride!! :D

Of course then we'd have the scientologists to deal with but they'd get "in the spirit" once the shots are fired at us :D

I feel almost like a newbie again... no-one seems to respond to my posts unless they're offensive....

I know the feeling. What's the watershed number of posts for a newbie anyway?

I know the feeling. What's the watershed number of posts for a newbie anyway?

For me it was about 2500, on NS General. On II, all you have to do is nuke someone. In NationStates you have to RP well.

10,000 used to be considered a lot of posts, back when I was still working towards it. Now just about everyone has over 10000. -.-

I feel almost like a newbie again... no-one seems to respond to my posts unless they're offensive....

STFU! LOL :fluffle:

I think it's instict that has existed even in the minds of prehistoric animals but humans are sentient enough to feel guilty about it.

It's about fear as much as anything else. "You're not like me, I don't understand this, so I fear it, so I don't like you."

Me, I'm truly unbiased. I dislike everyone, regardless (unless, of course, I get to know you, then I may like you or not).

I know all about that, I was making a rather poor and overused joke.

Whatever. Unfix'd.
Thanks, and I deleted my post as well.

As an aside, love is in reality a highly destructive emotion and can be turned to hate with an extremely simple action; they aren't opposites by a long shot. Even non-physical love can be dangerous, although as it is not caused by or related to a significant chemical imbalance in the brain, it is far less likely to result in suicide or environmental catastrophe. Having this kind of love destroyed and exploited the way love always is -- as it is an emotion and therefore a sign of weakness -- often leads to a sort of sad but brave look and an ever-springing naïve hope, which, while annoying, is perfectly harmless. Less frequently it drives one to depression.

Meh. Enough psychologising.
I really don't see love as a "highly destructive emotion" at all. Love is certainly far better than hate which can consume an individual and result in death and destruction. I know this, as I remember the darker days of my past.

I also don't see love as a "sign of weakness", but rather as a resource of strength. I guess it is all just a matter of ones' perspective?

Those who dwell in hate, are quicker to anger and suffer resentment. Those people are consumed by their ego and their fears. It is unlikely that they even love themselves. They are harmful to themselves and to others.

While people may try to exploit those who are full of love and kindness, there are also those who exploit those full of hate and anger. I believe that it would be easier to exploit the angry/hateful person.

I don't think the mentalities are tribalistic - I think they're modern mentalities. I remember a documentary about a dude going into the Amazon and despite being white and not being able to speak a word of their language (though I think he had an interpreter with him), the tribe (who were black) were amazingly welcoming and had massive smiles on their faces when they saw him again. The only time any of them seemed unhappy was when they watched a video recording of themselves (they had never seen such technology before and it is possible (though I'm not saying this is the case) that they thought it was some kind of bad magic) - but the rest of the time they were LOADS more times friendly than say an English or Western American (non-native*) person would be to a foreigner.

*"Native American" is the correct term for a person commonly known as a "Red Indian"
Oh, the word "tribalism" is not meant to imply that this is limited to "primitive" tribal cultures! I was intending it as a very general term, and it absolutely positively does include "tribes" within modern cultures. A "tribe" is just an alternative word for an "in-group." For instance, the Yankees-Red Sox "tribes."

Sorry about that, I should have been more clear.

Hmmm, well, people who are living on the basis of 'us vs. them' don't seem to realise that the typical 'they', usually another culture or race, almost always help the existance of 'us'.

For instance, if I, a English woman said my idea of they was, say, anyone from India(I'm not racist I'm just choosing a random example by choosing a race other than my own), I would be entirely hypocritical. I could go home and watch a television made in China or India etc., wear a t-shirt under the same circumstances or get a Curry for dinner without a second thought. We LIVE by relying on each other. Yet people turn around to seperate themselves as though they could manage alone.

I don't think the mentalities are tribalistic - I think they're modern mentalities. I remember a documentary about a dude going into the Amazon and despite being white and not being able to speak a word of their language (though I think he had an interpreter with him), the tribe (who were black) were amazingly welcoming and had massive smiles on their faces when they saw him again. The only time any of them seemed unhappy was when they watched a video recording of themselves (they had never seen such technology before and it is possible (though I'm not saying this is the case) that they thought it was some kind of bad magic) - but the rest of the time they were LOADS more times friendly than say an English or Western American (non-native*) person would be to a foreigner.

*"Native American" is the correct term for a person commonly known as a "Red Indian"

Oh come on. Granted, there are very peaceful tribes like you describe, but there are also extremely violent ones. And when you say 'modern mentalities' how modern do you mean?

Was I the only one who, upon reading the title of the thread, immediately recited the 'us (us... us... us...) and them (them... them... them...)' bit from the Pink Floyd song?

Was I the only one who, upon reading the title of the thread, immediately recited the 'us (us... us... us...) and them (them... them... them...)' bit from the Pink Floyd song?

Probably. :p

Was I the only one who, upon reading the title of the thread, immediately recited the 'us (us... us... us...) and them (them... them... them...)' bit from the Pink Floyd song?

Nope!

It is a symptom of modern society attempting to force people into unnaturally large groups. We naturally rebel by forming our own cliques with incompatible ideologies that allow us to retain our status as social animals.

Like my sig, I just tell myself

"If I was born where they were born, taught what they were taught, I'd believe what they believe."

It kinda makes suffering the idiots easier.

I really don't see love as a "highly destructive emotion" at all. Love is certainly far better than hate which can consume an individual and result in death and destruction. I know this, as I remember the darker days of my past.
Technically, any emotion can consume an individual, turning them from a rational human into something far worse. Those who let themselves be ruled by their emotions, whatever those emotions may be, are the most easily manipulated and most frequently suicidal people in the world.


I also don't see love as a "sign of weakness", but rather as a resource of strength. I guess it is all just a matter of ones' perspective?
If people can exploit it to cause one suffering, then in my perspective, it is a weakness. I'd be interested to understand how people think of it as a strength; I've seen only one strength, and that is pure rationality.


Those who dwell in hate, are quicker to anger and suffer resentment. Those people are consumed by their ego and their fears. It is unlikely that they even love themselves. They are harmful to themselves and to others.
Quite true.


While people may try to exploit those who are full of love and kindness, there are also those who exploit those full of hate and anger. I believe that it would be easier to exploit the angry/hateful person.
No, it is about the same; I know from experience. Besides, hate and love are different expressions of the same stimulus; being rejected in love can turn you hateful or vice versa. Emotionlessness or rationality, on the other hand, is the true opposite of love/hate; the rational person can never be exploited and rarely exploits others, except when he/she sees a benefit for society in doing so. (Only psychopaths exploit others wantonly, because of a chemical imbalance in the brain. We can attribute most unhealthy behavior to such imbalances; most of them, such as depression and anxiety, are treatable; on the other hand, the commercial success of such imbalances as romantic/sexual love, hatred, and anger is an obstacle to curing them.)

Technically, any emotion can consume an individual, turning them from a rational human into something far worse. Those who let themselves be ruled by their emotions, whatever those emotions may be, are the most easily manipulated and most frequently suicidal people in the world.

I agree. ;)

what is it with people and this "us and them" mentality?

I have run into it way too many times lately, and I just wanna know, what's the deal?!

My husband's grandmother doesn't like me because I from a different Christian denomination than she, my neighbor's don't trust me because I am a different race and religion then they are, the teenagers down the block don't like me because I am a "grown up", my sister who is a scientist doesn't like me because I am religious and a friend of a friend doesn't like me because I am a "hippy" (whatever that means :confused:)

I tell you I don't really care if any of these people like me or not, but it's just stupid to not like someone because they are different right? I don't like everyone, but really I hope I don't have this "us vs. them" default that seems to be causing so many problems.

so........us vs. them? are there people you don't like by default? or are you a nice person who hates everyone individually?

I suspect that the us vs. them attitude is a side-effect of taco deficiency. *nod* :(

Hey, don't blame us for this mentality, it's their fault!

Quality.

Was I the only one who, upon reading the title of the thread, immediately recited the 'us (us... us... us...) and them (them... them... them...)' bit from the Pink Floyd song?

And after all, we're all just...ordinary men...


yeah, you weren't alone...

I agree. ;)

A lot of people do. What most people don't seem to agree with is that love falls into this category, simply because they think it's "something special" or aphysical or whatever. All it is, is an overdose of dopamine or some such thing in the brain, which has a half-life of three years, and that's why some relationships last a week and others last six decades. Simple.

Of course, impersonal and non-emotional/sexual love -- what most theists claim to be their proof of the existence of a God -- is not strictly love at all, and thus a misnomer; rather, it's a feeling of being at peace with the world, which in turn is achieved by being at peace with yourself and attaining self-control. That is something different, and far less harmful; indeed, it should be striven for. Attributing it to God, or some such entity, is merely a reflection of the person's own view that such a state, being far removed from most human emotions and thoughts, must come from outside. It is more likely that it is due to one's finding the equilibrium between rational thought and emotion, and maintaining that balance can either be the work of one of His Noodly Appendages moving the neurotransmitters around, or of conscious effort.

I'm not making any sense here, am I?

A lot of people do. What most people don't seem to agree with is that love falls into this category, simply because they think it's "something special" or aphysical or whatever. All it is, is an overdose of dopamine or some such thing in the brain, which has a half-life of three years, and that's why some relationships last a week and others last six decades. Simple.

Of course, impersonal and non-emotional/sexual love -- what most theists claim to be their proof of the existence of a God -- is not strictly love at all, and thus a misnomer; rather, it's a feeling of being at peace with the world, which in turn is achieved by being at peace with yourself and attaining self-control. That is something different, and far less harmful; indeed, it should be striven for. Attributing it to God, or some such entity, is merely a reflection of the person's own view that such a state, being far removed from most human emotions and thoughts, must come from outside. It is more likely that it is due to one's finding the equilibrium between rational thought and emotion, and maintaining that balance can either be the work of one of His Noodly Appendages moving the neurotransmitters around, or of conscious effort.

I'm not making any sense here, am I?

you make perfect sense to me..........:eek: I haven't slept in 42 hours though, so you are the only thing that makes sense to me right now.

A lot of people do. What most people don't seem to agree with is that love falls into this category, simply because they think it's "something special" or aphysical or whatever. All it is, is an overdose of dopamine or some such thing in the brain, which has a half-life of three years, and that's why some relationships last a week and others last six decades. Simple.

Of course, impersonal and non-emotional/sexual love -- what most theists claim to be their proof of the existence of a God -- is not strictly love at all, and thus a misnomer; rather, it's a feeling of being at peace with the world, which in turn is achieved by being at peace with yourself and attaining self-control. That is something different, and far less harmful; indeed, it should be striven for. Attributing it to God, or some such entity, is merely a reflection of the person's own view that such a state, being far removed from most human emotions and thoughts, must come from outside. It is more likely that it is due to one's finding the equilibrium between rational thought and emotion, and maintaining that balance can either be the work of one of His Noodly Appendages moving the neurotransmitters around, or of conscious effort.

I'm not making any sense here, am I?

That makes sense to me.:)

you make perfect sense to me..........:eek: I haven't slept in 42 hours though, so you are the only thing that makes sense to me right now.

good, I wasn't making any sense to myself. I could tell because I couldn't imagine the counterargument. (For some reason, whenever I make an argument, I also work out every single possible counterargument to it to test it; if the counterargument wins out, I abandon the argument. No wonder I'm so good at strategy games.)