NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/01/01/gaza.kidnap/index.html

The article says it all.

Duh, of course it is. If something goes wrong, it's always Israel's fault; guilt by lack of action, or excessive force, or whatever the type of action relevant to the event is.

They were probably Mossad agents in disguise. :rolleyes:



;)

I for one blame Ruffy.

They were probably Mossad agents in disguise. :rolleyes:



;)

But of course. They are Mossad agents trained by the same American forces that trained al-Qaeda so that they could pull off a kidnapping that looks like it was done by the Hamas 'freedom fighters', so it would justify having to keep all that extra land... :p

No, Israel is not.

But I'm sure you would have us believe that the Palestinian Nation, the religion of Islam, and Anti-Semitism is responsible for it instead. See how nice it is? We can just sum up each other's arguments instead of having to make our own.

I blame the shadow government Roman Empire. You plebes will be sad once we're powerful enough to not be a shadow government anymore.

I blame the shadow government Roman Empire. You plebes will be sad once we're powerful enough to not be a shadow government anymore.

*shines light on shadow government*

*shines light on shadow government*

THE LIGHT! IT BURNS US!

Thanks, you just made my emperor scurry under a pile of clothes.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/01/01/gaza.kidnap/index.html

The article says it all.

Why would it be? Are you just looking for a knee jerk reactionary comment here, or are you just being an ass?

There's no need to pre-empt everyone. You're giving those sympathetic to Israel a bad name.

*Eats bait* I blame Israel for not keeping the peace in its own borders something which most nations do fairly easily :p

also what masks where they wearing?

*also takes bait*

Yep - that happened because Israel has impoverished the Gaza Strip to the extent that people need to tae journalists for ransom to help pay for anything.

Tada, I can be an arsehole, too!

*Eats bait* I blame Israel for not keeping the peace in its own borders something which most nations do fairly easily :p

also what masks where they wearing?


Well, if it would fuck off back to its own borders...that would be a start.

As for the incident itself, it is inevitable in any irregular conflict situation that these kinds of incidents happen, either by stupidity, hot-headedness or straight out criminality. It does nothing to further the palestinian cause.

Well, if it would fuck off back to its own borders...that would be a start.

As for the incident itself, it is inevitable in any irregular conflict situation that these kinds of incidents happen, either by stupidity, hot-headedness or straight out criminality. It does nothing to further the palestinian cause.

LOL. This happened in Gaza, where Israel HAS backed off to it's own borders. Of course you just look for any case to blame Israel.

Well, if it would fuck off back to its own borders...that would be a start.

As for the incident itself, it is inevitable in any irregular conflict situation that these kinds of incidents happen, either by stupidity, hot-headedness or straight out criminality. It does nothing to further the palestinian cause.

You make it sound so easy! You try altering your borders without the support of most of your population, some of who will have homes outside of the proposed new territory, all of your parlaiment, and whilst being flanked by hundreds of thousands of hostiles baying for your blood.

It would be nice if a settlement could be reached bilaterally.

LOL. This happened in Gaza, where Israel HAS backed off to it's own borders. Of course you just look for any case to blame Israel.

maybe Israel could try to rebuild the place after all you don’t just pull out and live happily ever after people don’t take kindly to occupation especially if it wasn’t with hearts and minds

You make it sound so easy! You try altering your borders without the support of most of your population, some of who will have homes outside of the proposed new territory, all of your parlaiment, and whilst being flanked by hundreds of thousands of hostiles baying for your blood.

It would be nice if a settlement could be reached bilaterally.

Its called "sanctions". It was the way things were supposed to be done.

maybe Israel could try to rebuild the place after all you don’t just pull out and live happily ever after people don’t take kindly to occupation especially if it wasn’t with hearts and minds

Israelis wouldn't go there to rebuild it because they'd be shot at. Israel also won't give them money since they just funnel the funds to their own banks or use them to attack Israel.

Well, if it would fuck off back to its own borders...that would be a start.

As for the incident itself, it is inevitable in any irregular conflict situation that these kinds of incidents happen, either by stupidity, hot-headedness or straight out criminality. It does nothing to further the palestinian cause.

Its called "sanctions". It was the way things were supposed to be done.

They found themselves with a fair bit of Arab land when they were attacked without provocation in 67. Thanfully they gave back a good chunk of it, but they should have let go of the West Bank and Gaza strip as soon as the conflict was over too. The Palestinians aren't Israels responsability. Unfortunately they didn't, and we're knee deep in shit now, with not much Israel can do under the status quo.

Israelis wouldn't go there to rebuild it because they'd be shot at.

if you had been building schools and hospitals during the occupation I doubt that Israeli troops would be fired upon whilst doing this work and in fact odds are you wouldn't of had so much trouble in the whole fiasco

Israel also won't give them money since they just funnel the funds to their own banks or use them to attack Israel.

yeah its not like you/the U.N can oversee the work or anything :rolleyes:

IDF, its not the people sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians that are blind in their faith.

I for one cannot condone this act.

But we had the 'jew crew' on this site defending absolutly everything Isreal did dogmatically.

Dont reflect your totality on them.

yeah its not like you/the U.N can oversee the work or anything :rolleyes:

Or have in international peacekeepers...like has been proposed a number of times. But o no. They might ask questions like "why are you building semi-detached housing on that land?" and "Isnt that violating your side of the agreement?" and worse, they might have to answer...

I suppose Israel is to blame for this one

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/01/01/gaza.kidnap/index.html

The article says it all.
Why do you suppose that?
There's no need to pre-empt everyone. You're giving those sympathetic to Israel a bad name.
If this thread is going the way it's seems to be going, I would agree with this.

Sounds to me like a group of criminals is to blame.
Certain conditions breed criminals, this is true, but their actions are still their own.

I was going to blame the people who actually did this, but now I'm going to blame Israel because you annoyed me.

LOL. This happened in Gaza, where Israel HAS backed off to it's own borders. Of course you just look for any case to blame Israel.

Just out of interest.
Who controls gaza's airspace?
and borders?

IDF, its not the people sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians that are blind in their faith.

I for one cannot condone this act.

But we had the 'jew crew' on this site defending absolutly everything Isreal did dogmatically.

Dont reflect your totality on them.


It might be said that those composing the "Jew Crew" were not,the vast majority of them, jewish.

It might be said that those composing the "Jew Crew" were not,the vast majority of them, jewish.

IDF and one other are the only Jews that I regularly see defending Israel on this forum or anywhere else.

In my experience, most Israel apologists are evangelical Christians trying to bring about the apocalypse some sort of crazed doomsday cult and “manly men” who think slaughter has something to do with masculinity and who admire Israel's military.

maybe Israel could try to rebuild the place after all you don’t just pull out and live happily ever after people don’t take kindly to occupation especially if it wasn’t with hearts and minds

Actually, Israel's pull out was by DISMANTELING JEWISH/ISRAELI HOMES and removing the people. Some of these people have yet to be resettled, and are still living in temporary homes because such a VAST evacuation has strained the governments ability to house them.

My point though is, they didn't DISMANTLE anything.

BTW - the last time an Israeli Parliamentarian suggested a similar evacuation of NON-CITIZENS (re:Arab Christians and Muslims), he, and his whole political party was declared racist and ejected from the Parliament permanently. We, as a nation, have treated our own citizens in a way we have refused to treat others, because it would be cruel.

They found themselves with a fair bit of Arab land when they were attacked without provocation in 67. Thanfully they gave back a good chunk of it, but they should have let go of the West Bank and Gaza strip as soon as the conflict was over too. The Palestinians aren't Israels responsability. Unfortunately they didn't, and we're knee deep in shit now, with not much Israel can do under the status quo.

No one prior to the Palestinian Authority (which didn't exist before the 1990's) WANTED Gaza. Israel didn't want it any more then anyone else. Sure, some idealists who believe in the biblical borders moved there, after being offered incentives to do so, but the Government didn't want it. It's a hellhole. I've been there (pre-Israeli pull-out), and even the best parts of it are a hell-hole.

Also, the occupation/annexation debate went on for a very long time before occupation became the de-facto status. Many believe that was a big mistake on Israel's part. Land conquered in war can be legitimately annexed, and the UN resolution that creatd the state allows for Israel to expand it's 1948 borders to the point where they are defesible, which requiers an Israeli presence in Judea and Sammaria (aka the west bank).

if you had been building schools and hospitals during the occupation I doubt that Israeli troops would be fired upon whilst doing this work and in fact odds are you wouldn't of had so much trouble in the whole fiasco

yeah its not like you/the U.N can oversee the work or anything :rolleyes:

No, the UN neither could or would oversee such a project.

During the life of Arrafat, I once spoke with the son of the mayor of an Arab town that has grown to share a border with an Israeli town nearby. He explained that the two towns started to raise money to build a shared hospital until their lives were threatened by the Palestinian Authority for colluding with Israeli's. The Israli's ultimately raised enough money to build their own Hospital, and they allowed their neighbors to use the facilities, but their access is limited by whatever the state of security is at any given time.

ALSO, Arrafat died holding over 4 Billion dollars, and possibly as much as 11 Billion. This was money he collected world-wide to releave the plight of the Palestinians. Was any of that money EVER used to build schools, hospitals, roads, or anything useful? NO! It was used to kill people. Israeli, Jewish, Arab, whatever. It was used to kill people.

IDF, its not the people sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians that are blind in their faith.

I for one cannot condone this act.

But we had the 'jew crew' on this site defending absolutly everything Isreal did dogmatically.

Dont reflect your totality on them.

It's hard not to jump to the defense of Israel, when it's existence protects your life and culture on a global scale.

Sure, there are times where Israel does wrong, but they never act as wrongly as Arab leadership, and yet they are under much closer and harsher scrutiny.

Just out of interest.
Who controls gaza's airspace?
and borders?

Well, the PA has proven inept at not importing weapons. They have proven inept at not supplying murderers with weapons. They have proven inept at controlling *anyone* including the murderers they supply.

They also have no airforce at all.

Just out of interest.
Who controls gaza's airspace?
and borders?



...
Well, the PA has proven inept at not importing weapons. They have proven inept at not supplying murderers with weapons. They have proven inept at controlling *anyone* including the murderers they supply.

They also have no airforce at all.


So the answer to the question is?

So the answer to the question is?
No one bothered to look up the answer.

Israelis wouldn't go there to rebuild it because they'd be shot at. Israel also won't give them money since they just funnel the funds to their own banks or use them to attack Israel.

Man, those fish sure are jumpin'. What kinda bait you usin' there, pally?

Oh - same as always, eh?

Wow. This sure outrages me.

Oh no wait it doesnt.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/01/01/gaza.kidnap/index.html

The article says it all.

No! Teh Alm1ghty Rush Limbaugh said it was teh workz of teh ebil muslemxorz!!111!!!1 :rolleyes:

No! Teh Alm1ghty Rush Limbaugh said it was teh workz of teh ebil muslemxorz!!111!!!1 :rolleyes:

Really showing your intelligence (or lack of) there.

Really showing your intelligence (or lack of) there.

Ask a stupid question...

Really showing your intelligence (or lack of) there.

Oh no! I broke the cardinal rule of the Israel debate: "don't be sarcastic or suggest that Israel might not be completely altruistic." I must go cleanse my self through self torture...

Actually, Israel's pull out was by DISMANTELING JEWISH/ISRAELI HOMES and removing the people. Some of these people have yet to be resettled, and are still living in temporary homes because such a VAST evacuation has strained the governments ability to house them.

this has ? to do with Israel not building crucial infrastructure…

My point though is, they didn't DISMANTLE anything.

my point however is that nobody has mentioned dismantling anything for some reason this has popped not your head as some kind of argument

No, the UN neither could or would oversee such a project.

you have anything to back that up?

ALSO, Arrafat died holding over 4 Billion dollars, and possibly as much as 11 Billion. This was money he collected world-wide to releave the plight of the Palestinians. Was any of that money EVER used to build schools, hospitals, roads, or anything useful? NO! It was used to kill people. Israeli, Jewish, Arab, whatever. It was used to kill people.

yes because Palestinians as a race are incapable of building schools and hospitals

Duh, of course it is. If something goes wrong, it's always Israel's fault; guilt by lack of action, or excessive force, or whatever the type of action relevant to the event is.

DUH! Didn't you know Israel is the source of all evil in the world?

Actually, Israel's pull out was by DISMANTELING JEWISH/ISRAELI HOMES and removing the people. Some of these people have yet to be resettled, and are still living in temporary homes because such a VAST evacuation has strained the governments ability to house them.
.

8,000 does not strike me as a vast number. I seem to remember that much more were displaced by those self same settlers. Its a fact that they did in fact control about one third of the Gaza area, and that the rest of the million plus population were crammed into the other third. Such is the way of an apartheid province. And I like the way you call them "JEWISH/ISRAELI HOMES" in some sort of bid to make it seem like a nice suburban set up, instead of a few colonial outposts.




Sure, some idealists who believe in the biblical borders moved there, after being offered incentives to do so, but the Government didn't want it. .

"idealists"? Bearded fanatics with uzis, every bit as bad as their muslim contemporaries more like....with a disturbing number of American accents too.



It's a hellhole. I've been there (pre-Israeli pull-out), and even the best parts of it are a hell-hole.
Here we agree.

Land conquered in war can be legitimately annexed, and the UN resolution that creatd the state allows for Israel to expand it's 1948 borders to the point where they are defesible, which requiers an Israeli presence in Judea and Sammaria (aka the west bank).
.

emmm....No. Thats an opinion that has currency in Israel, and certain American circles, but you'd be eating your bread dry if you depended on that to butter it elsewhere. Otherwise there'd be no need for the US veto, or 4 resolutions condemning settlements.


It's hard not to jump to the defense of Israel, when it's existence protects your life and culture on a global scale. .

Theres a large number of Jews who don't agree with that for starters.


Sure, there are times where Israel does wrong, but they never act as wrongly as Arab leadership, and yet they are under much closer and harsher scrutiny. .

Syria in Lebanon. Threat of sanctions, Syria pulls out. Israel in the OT - hahahaha. Since 1967.

DUH! Didn't you know Israel is the source of all evil in the world?

Well, when even the foremost defender of Israeli policies and actions on NSG seems to imply just that...

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/01/01/gaza.kidnap/index.html

The article says it all.
Well, I support the creation of a Palestinian state. So obviously it's Israel's fault. Oh, and then I suddenly wake up, smell the coffee, and realise I don't see the world in black and white...

Of course you just look for any case to blame Israel.
And, of course, you just look for any case with which to accuse everyone that doesn't support your view of being an anti-Semite.

Tell me - do hairshirts come in assorted styles? I've never seen the need to get one, but you certainly have several.
My guess is you feel the need for them as it gets mighty cold way up there on your high horse.

DUH! Didn't you know Israel is the source of all evil in the world?
I merely assumed it was a conduit for the devil and not the actual source itself...

In my experience, most Israel apologists are evangelical Christians trying to bring about the apocalypse some sort of crazed doomsday cult and “manly men” who think slaughter has something to do with masculinity and who admire Israel's military.

Nice stereotyping. I support Israel and, not only am I a liberal socialist, but I'm also an atheist.

Nice stereotyping. I support Israel and, not only am I a liberal socialist, but I'm also an atheist.

Why then would you support Israel, a state run by bourgeoisies, and supported internationally by such, in their efforts to suppress Palestinians, who are, overwhelmingly, poor?

yes because Palestinians as a race are incapable of building schools and hospitals

Actually, you should read what I wrote. I said that these two towns were *raising money together.* The idea was that they had to raise money because NEITHER TOWN COULD FINANCIALLY SUPPORT A HOSITAL ON IT'S OWN.

The Israeli's eventually got help in funding, and built a hospital, after the Palestinians could no longer cooperate with them.

My point is that Arrafat was an evil (explative-deleted) nut, and the same goes for many, if not most, of the current palestinian leadership. This is because the moderates who do not want to kill people GET SHOT IN THE HEAD, or worse. It has little to do with the average man, and everything to do with political culture.


8,000 does not strike me as a vast number. I seem to remember that much more were displaced by those self same settlers. Its a fact that they did in fact control about one third of the Gaza area, and that the rest of the million plus population were crammed into the other third. Such is the way of an apartheid province. And I like the way you call them "JEWISH/ISRAELI HOMES" in some sort of bid to make it seem like a nice suburban set up, instead of a few colonial outposts.
---
"idealists"? Bearded fanatics with uzis, every bit as bad as their muslim contemporaries more like....with a disturbing number of American accents too.
---
mm....No. Thats an opinion that has currency in Israel, and certain American circles, but you'd be eating your bread dry if you depended on that to butter it elsewhere. Otherwise there'd be no need for the US veto, or 4 resolutions condemning settlements.
---
Theres a large number of Jews who don't agree with that for starters.
---
Syria in Lebanon. Threat of sanctions, Syria pulls out. Israel in the OT - hahahaha. Since 1967.

1. You seem to remember wrongly. Those settler's displaced nobody when they moved in.
ALSO, 8,000 is a vry large number in a naton who's total population is 6,000,000.
1/6 (that's 1,000,000 people) of whome are Russian immigrants since 1989.

2. Yes, idealists. They risk their lives for their ideals. I don't agree with evry aspect of those ideals, or how they are interpreted, but they are idealists. As to beards, they have a CHOICE to grow one or not, that's the important bit. As to Uzi's... I had the honour (and terror) of sleeping in a home in Gush Katiff once. You would carry one two, if you lived there. I never went back for a second visit.

3. It's part of the way the world works, it's not an oppinion. It's the oppinion of a very small population of confused people that the world works any other way, thus far.

4.Yes, there are Jews who feel differently, but in ***most*** cases (I did not say ALL) they are self-hating Jews, uninformed politically or historically, or so assimilated that their children likely won't identify as Jewish anymore.

5. Well, if you are referring to Ariel Sharon, then you should also know that he was tried in an Israeli court for the decisions that led to the slaughtering of Muslim Lebanese AT THE HANDS OF CHRISTIAN LEBANESE.
It wasn't Israeli soldiers doing the killing.
Sharon was removed from his position in Government and disgraced. He managed to rise to prominence again, but that can happen in a democracy. People can know your history and decide for themselves.

No, the people who are at fault here are the people who kidnapped that journalist. Neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians are collectively responsible.

Why then would you support Israel, a state run by bourgeoisies, and supported internationally by such, in their efforts to suppress Palestinians, who are, overwhelmingly, poor?

1. Being poor has absolutely no standing as to weather one s right.
2. Palestinians are kept poor, to be used as a tool by their leadership, and other, VERY wealthy, Arab nations.
3. Israel was a socialist state, that is only recently (post 1985) becoming more capitalist. Many of the first Israeli towns were built as communes - the most successful communes the world has ever seen.
The Histadrut is a union that represents 55% of the Israeli work-force, and once represented over 90%.
4. The two key springboards into Israeli politics are the Histadrut and the Army. Neither can be described as "bourgeoisies".

I am very glad that Israel has taken serious steps away from it's extreme socialism, because those policies had proven VERY destructive. At the worst point, the majority of the population was living hand-to-mouth, and suffering. My 3rd and 4th points, however, boil down to saying that either you don't actually know what the word "bourgois" means, or you just don't know what you;re talking about.

Learn to read, you might actually say something original and intelligent one day.

1. You seem to remember wrongly. Those settler's displaced nobody when they moved in.
ALSO, 8,000 is a vry large number in a naton who's total population is 6,000,000.
1/6 (that's 1,000,000 people) of whome are Russian immigrants since 1989.
.

I think thats you that has the faulty memory. And 8,000 was a small number to give a third of Gaza to.




2. Yes, idealists. They risk their lives for their ideals. I don't agree with evry aspect of those ideals, or how they are interpreted, but they are idealists. As to beards, they have a CHOICE to grow one or not, that's the important bit. As to Uzi's... I had the honour (and terror) of sleeping in a home in Gush Katiff once. You would carry one two, if you lived there. I never went back for a second visit..

No, whatever I might be carrying, it wouldnt be an Uzi. Nor would I stay in a colonial outspost with religous fanatics. Because if they're idealists, so is Osama Bin Laden.



3. It's part of the way the world works, it's not an oppinion. It's the oppinion of a very small population of confused people that the world works any other way, thus far...

So presumably the 130 plus nations of the UN who agree with me and constitute the majority of the worlds population are outnumberd by the invisible fairy folk at your command....


4.Yes, there are Jews who feel differently, but in ***most*** cases (I did not say ALL) they are self-hating Jews, uninformed politically or historically, or so assimilated that their children likely won't identify as Jewish anymore.
...

Were I jewish, I'd probably be sickened by that comment. As it is, its just laughable to me.


5. Well, if you are referring to Ariel Sharon, then you should also know that he was tried in an Israeli court for the decisions that led to the slaughtering of Muslim Lebanese AT THE HANDS OF CHRISTIAN LEBANESE.
It wasn't Israeli soldiers doing the killing.
Sharon was removed from his position in Government and disgraced. He managed to rise to prominence again, but that can happen in a democracy. People can know your history and decide for themselves.

He never stood in a court of law, as far as I'm aware. There was an inquiry (with no power to enforce penalties) that recommended he never hold office again.

Didn't Israel invade at the invitation oif the christian lebanese, some of whom they armed, sheltered and trained?

1.I think thats you that has the faulty memory. And 8,000 was a small number to give a third of Gaza to.
---
2.No, whatever I might be carrying, it wouldnt be an Uzi. Nor would I stay in a colonial outspost with religous fanatics. Because if they're idealists, so is Osama Bin Laden.
---
3.So presumably the 130 plus nations of the UN who agree with me and constitute the majority of the worlds population are outnumberd by the invisible fairy folk at your command....
---
4.Were I jewish, I'd probably be sickened by that comment. As it is, its just laughable to me.
---
5.He never stood in a court of law, as far as I'm aware. There was an inquiry (with no power to enforce penalties) that recommended he never hold office again.
---
Didn't Israel invade at the invitation oif the christian lebanese, some of whom they armed, sheltered and trained?

1. The land that Gush Katie was settled on was empty. There are people who make claim that their grandparents lived there but fled when the Jewish militias (pre-statehood) started fighting for control. The state of Israel financially compensates anyone who can show evidence of that. There are a lot of claimants who have no evidence. That is unavoidable.

As to 8,000 being a small number... ISRAEL IS SMALL!!! ISRAEL IS TINEY!!! 8,000 people in Israel is the equivalent, in terms of population, to 375,000 people in the United States or over 1,654,000 in China. (Based on numbers of 6,352,000 in Israel, 298,444,000 in the US and 1,313,973,000 in China, from the CIA World Factbook). ALL OF GAZA IS 360 sqkm and Israel - not including Gaza, Judea, and Sommaria - is 20,300 sqkm.

"Slightly smaller than New Jersey" - CIA, The World Factbook, Israel.
https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/is.html

2. If you lived the way those people live, you would eagerly carry an Uzi. You don't, nor do I, so we don't carry Uzi's.
Some people who lived in Gush Katief were religious fanatics, but the majority were people who were given enough financial incentive to move to an area that they believe is religiously and politically important to hold a Jewish population.
Osama bin Laden is an idealist. His ideals, however, demand the conversion or death of a lot of people, including you, me, and almost everyone we know.

3 and 4. I'm not even going to bother with this. Your arguements here are equivalent to closing your eyes, covering your ears, and shouting "no no no no no."

5. The inquiry was a parliamentary inquiry, and it had the power to put him before a ourt of law. It did not, because they determined he was only "indirectly responsible." The decision was that while he did not order the killings, he had to have been aware that allowing the Lebanese Christians into the Muslim refugee camps would lead to a slaughter. The reason for allowing those christians into the camps was because they offered to assist with identifying militant leaders. Instead, they started killing indescrimanently.

The inquiry relieved Sharon of his cabinet portfolio - Minister of Defence - and ejected him from the Knesset (parliament). However, the inquiry had no power to prevent his seeking office again.

In order for such an inquiry to occur, and for it to have that level of power over a member of the Knesset, the Knesset itself must call for it, and gve it those powers. This was a very serious event, so I thank you for correcting me on the details, I typed swiftly, and carelessly did not differentiate between a trial and a massive inquiry.

4.Yes, there are Jews who feel differently, but in ***most*** cases (I did not say ALL) they are self-hating Jews, uninformed politically or historically, or so assimilated that their children likely won't identify as Jewish anymore.
I have a fair few Jewish friends, almost all of whom are against the state of Israel's actions as they are at this point.

They are by no means "self-hating". That's just ridiculous.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/01/01/gaza.kidnap/index.html

The article says it all.

If you go to an area as volatile as the Middle East, you take certain risks, one of which is getting kidnapped.

Why then would you support Israel, a state run by bourgeoisies, and supported internationally by such, in their efforts to suppress Palestinians, who are, overwhelmingly, poor?

Because in large part I (and he, I'm assuming) sympathizes with their part of the story, believing it to be correct and largely justified?

Fox reporters, lol, maybe they shouldn't be reporting for the garbage dump of reactionary propaganda.

1. The land that Gush Katie was settled on was empty. There are people who make claim that their grandparents lived there but fled when the Jewish militias (pre-statehood) started fighting for control. The state of Israel financially compensates anyone who can show evidence of that. There are a lot of claimants who have no evidence. That is unavoidable..

You seem to be confusing Israel and the occupied territories. Secondly, its my understanding that Israel confiscated land in the cases you mention, in what is now the state of Israel

As to 8,000 being a small number... ISRAEL IS SMALL!!! ISRAEL IS TINEY!!! 8,000 people in Israel is the equivalent, in terms of population, to 375,000 people in the United States or over 1,654,000 in China. (Based on numbers of 6,352,000 in Israel, 298,444,000 in the US and 1,313,973,000 in China, from the CIA World Factbook). ALL OF GAZA IS 360 sqkm and Israel - not including Gaza, Judea, and Sommaria - is 20,300 sqkm. ..

Yes, 8,000 is a small number. Hence my mentioning that they took 1 third of that 360 km, squeezing a million plus into the remaining 2/3rds. Secondly, Gaza is not part of Israel.



2. If you lived the way those people live, you would eagerly carry an Uzi. You don't, nor do I, so we don't carry Uzi's. ..

Like colonists/Apartheid era white south Africans, or perhaps early American settlers...



Some people who lived in Gush Katief were religious fanatics, but the majority were people who were given enough financial incentive to move to an area that they believe is religiously and politically important to hold a Jewish population...

Colonising for personal economic advantage....mugging on an international scale?



5. The inquiry was a parliamentary inquiry, and it had the power to put him before a ourt of law. It did not, because they determined he was only "indirectly responsible." .

No, it found that Sharon was "personally responsible". The IDF was found "indirectly responsible". It had no power to recommend criminal charges, hence the hostile reception it received in more than the usual quarters.