NationStates Jolt Archive

Washington, DC — Grand Canyon National Park is not permitted to give an official estimate of the geologic age of its principal feature, due to pressure from Bush administration appointees. Despite promising a prompt review of its approval for a book claiming the Grand Canyon was created by Noah's flood rather than by geologic forces

For more read this (http://www.peer.org/news/news_id.php?row_id=801)

Wtf...?

For more read this (http://www.peer.org/news/news_id.php?row_id=801)

...

You've got to be kidding me. "Hey, because we don't want to offend reliigous fundamentalists, let's not conduct science!" The Bush Administration looks ever more stupid this way...

But the grand canyon isn't in the bible and even then the general ignorant idea is the Earths cooling:confused:

Can they please also add the inikresaist view that the earth was created because Mjehekansa assumed this form?

Oh. My. God.

But the grand canyon isn't in the bible and even then the general ignorant idea is the Earths cooling:confused:

Religion in Ignoring Facts Shocker!

Somewhere, a dead geologist is spinning in his grave. For shame Bush Admin, for shame.

Well i'm not sure about the first part, but I have heard the second part in greater detail. That was because they put the young earth book in the fiction section, the government decided that offended many people so told the shop to put it in the general section as an alternative theory.

But the grand canyon isn't in the bible and even then the general ignorant idea is the Earths cooling:confused:
Give them a couple of years with the Democrats around and it'll hopefully pass us by and we'll go back to being heretical science worshippers.

Only here...

Dark Ages here we come

http://www.krankykraut.net/UserFiles/Image/nelson-haha.gif

What a silly country.

Dark Ages here we come
You could save time and money by sending the fundie Christians over to Iran and Saudi Arabia.

*sighs*

Couldn't you have elected a slightly less rubbish government?

When is the right wing religious fanatic base going to understand that forcing their beliefs on others will never work???:rolleyes:

*sighs*

Couldn't you have elected a slightly less rubbish government?

We did back in 2000, though something very illegal and iffy happened, so here we are.

Somewhere, a dead geologist is spinning in his grave. For shame Bush Admin, for shame.

Well I'm sure the live ones will protest. They're not extinct..... are they? :eek:

Old. Same thing's been going on since '01.

God damn it.

......................................................what....the....fuck.....

Well I'm sure the live ones will protest. They're not extinct..... are they? :eek:
No, but they'll be driven underground because they corrupting the youth with useless scientific facts.

Ok now that I have reviewed it further, I think the story has been overblown.

Firstly, the Bush administration is not forcing a religious belief onto anyone, it is merely restricting the agency from promoting one belief over any others, and saying that any others are fiction. I disagree with this decision but it is not extreme.

The vast majority of books on sale are old earth books, while there was one young earth book which was originally put into fiction that the government reviewed and decided to put it with the rest of the books to not offend people.

Now I am not saying that I agree with this, but as I said earlier, it is not extreme fundamentalist. They are meerly looking to not offend people. Thats a rather more left wing nanny state sort of thing in my opinion.

this just makes me hate bush even more.

Somewhere, a dead geologist is spinning in his grave. For shame Bush Admin, for shame.

Poor Wegener...the number of times he's been disturbed is astounding...

Poor Wegener...the number of times he's been disturbed is astounding...

Poor guy didn't get to see seafloor spreading prove him right.

Firstly, the Bush administration is not forcing a religious belief onto anyone, it is merely restricting the agency from promoting one belief over any others, and saying that any others are fiction. I disagree with this decision but it is not extreme.

So.... if I would say the Grand Canyon is the desperation of Mjehekansa, you can not say this is utterly unscientific BS? If I wrote a book about this, would it deserve an equal place at the scientific books?

So.... if I would say the Grand Canyon is the desperation of Mjehekansa, you can not say this is utterly unscientific BS? If I wrote a book about this, would it deserve an equal place at the scientific books?

Sorry, your religion doesn't have enough political influence to pull such a thing off. Try getting some believers elected.

So.... if I would say the Grand Canyon is the desperation of Mjehekansa, you can not say this is utterly unscientific BS? If I wrote a book about this, would it deserve an equal place at the scientific books?

No but young earth is probably the second most popular explanation of the grand canyon, I wouldn't call it extreme to allow it to be sold in that shop.

No but young earth is probably the second most popular explanation of the grand canyon, I wouldn't call it extreme to allow it to be sold in that shop.

Science is not a democracy. Science is a meritocracy. Evolution is the equivalent of Batman. YEC is the equivalent of Aquaman. With no limbs. And in a permanent vegetative state. And completely unable to interact with the universe or be interacted with, making it as useless as possible to be.

Sorry, your religion doesn't have enough political influence to pull such a thing off. Try getting some believers elected.

The inikresaists are about to prepare an Operation Snow White! :)

When is the right wing religious fanatic base going to understand that forcing their beliefs on others will never work???:rolleyes:

Because it does seem to work.

Science is not a democracy. Science is a meritocracy. Evolution is the equivalent of Batman. YEC is the equivalent of Aquaman. With no limbs. And in a permanent vegetative state. And completely unable to interact with the universe or be interacted with, making it as useless as possible to be.
That is the most awesome analogy ever.
The inikresaists are about to prepare an Operation Snow White! :)

Huzzah!
*wikis*

Ok now that I have reviewed it further, I think the story has been overblown.

Firstly, the Bush administration is not forcing a religious belief onto anyone, it is merely restricting the agency from promoting one belief over any others, and saying that any others are fiction. I disagree with this decision but it is not extreme.

The vast majority of books on sale are old earth books, while there was one young earth book which was originally put into fiction that the government reviewed and decided to put it with the rest of the books to not offend people.

Now I am not saying that I agree with this, but as I said earlier, it is not extreme fundamentalist. They are meerly looking to not offend people. Thats a rather more left wing nanny state sort of thing in my opinion.
Science is not suppose to be about what may or may not offend people. Science is about truth. If some crazy religion says there is no such thing as gravity and invisible monkeys are what keep everything from floating to space. Should we change all text books to keep from offending people who have beliefs that are not rational? Is not offending people more important than the truth?

No but young earth is probably the second most popular explanation of the grand canyon, I wouldn't call it extreme to allow it to be sold in that shop.

i would. popular idiocy is still idiocy.

Science is not suppose to be about what may or may not offend people. Science is about truth. If some crazy religion says there is no such thing as gravity and invisible monkeys are what keep everything from floating to space. Should we change all text books to keep from offending people who have beliefs that are not rational? Is not offending people more important than the truth?

Yeah but the point is the government has not changed any text books, all it has done is allowed another theory to be published. I don't mind them doing that, but I do mind them not allowing the shop to promote one set of beliefs over another. But as I said before, I don't think its that extreme and it has been over exagerated into a terrible situation. Especially since all the other books promote old earth science.

i would. popular idiocy is still idiocy.

Idiotic or not, I still don't think any shop should refuse to publish anything simply because it doesn't agree with it.

Yeah but the point is the government has not changed any text books, all it has done is allowed another theory to be published. I don't mind them doing that, but I do mind them not allowing the shop to promote one set of beliefs over another. But as I said before, I don't think its that extreme and it has been over exagerated into a terrible situation. Especially since all the other books promote old earth science.

Good, I hope the government then allows me to sell my book describing how muslims are mentally defective in NPS bookstores.

Good, I hope the government then allows me to sell my book describing how muslims are mentally defective in NPS bookstores.

I can see such a book doing very well. Ugh.

Idiotic or not, I still don't think any shop should refuse to publish anything simply because it doesn't agree with it.

It's not a matter of that. It's a matter of something that is not science being forced to be displayed as science.

Good, I hope the government then allows me to sell my book describing how muslims are mentally defective in NPS bookstores.

No it wouldn't, because that would cause to much offence.

Ok now that I have reviewed it further, I think the story has been overblown.

Firstly, the Bush administration is not forcing a religious belief onto anyone, it is merely restricting the agency from promoting one belief over any others, and saying that any others are fiction. I disagree with this decision but it is not extreme.

The vast majority of books on sale are old earth books, while there was one young earth book which was originally put into fiction that the government reviewed and decided to put it with the rest of the books to not offend people.

Now I am not saying that I agree with this, but as I said earlier, it is not extreme fundamentalist. They are meerly looking to not offend people. Thats a rather more left wing nanny state sort of thing in my opinion.
I agree. since we cant prove either theory, why should one be picked over the other? It might be hard to say but the creationist's theory would seem to work here.

No it wouldn't, because that would cause to much offence.

And raping and torturing science doesn't?

It's not a matter of that. It's a matter of something that is not science being forced to be displayed as science.

No, the store isn't saying that it's science or that it's true, it's just selling it.

And raping and torturing science doesn't?

Not really, it doesn't actually insult anyone.

I agree. since we cant prove either theory, why should one be picked over the other? It might be hard to say but the creationist's theory would seem to work here.

Evolution is a theory. Creationism is not. To claim it is would be grossly insulting to the long and arduous process required for a hypothesis to become a theory.

And by the way, creationism's "theory" doesn't work. A flood could not have carved the Grand Canyon.

No, the store isn't saying that it's science or that it's true, it's just selling it.

In the science section. Thus claiming that it is science.

Not really, it doesn't actually insult anyone.

It insults anyone who has ever performed science by making a mockery of it.

Evolution is a theory. Creationism is not. To claim it is would be grossly insulting to the long and arduous process required for a hypothesis to become a theory.

And by the way, creationism's "theory" doesn't work. A flood could not have carved the Grand Canyon.

God magic can do anything it wants to.

I can see such a book doing very well. Ugh.

I don't imagine it would. Hell, if it was up to me I wouldn't allow it. But if you think all idiocy should have an equal say, why not some really offensive idiocy?

In the science section. Thus claiming that it is science.

Oh well, it's still not really a big issue. If I was to walk into the library, and saw that in the science section I wouldn't really care too much.

If you care so deeply then I think you should chill out a bit, it is nothing compared to what is going on elsewhere.

I don't imagine it would. Hell, if it was up to me I wouldn't allow it. But if you think all idiocy should have an equal say, why not some really offensive idiocy?

I was considering making an analogy to a Jewish bookshop being forced to carry books about holocaust denial in the "Jewish History" section, but decided against it. I probably should have.

Oh well, it's still not really a big issue. If I was to walk into the library, and saw that in the science section I wouldn't really care too much.

Oh, it is an issue. The government has taken to insert itself into science and religion, the two things that the government has never been supposed to interfere with.

Oh well, it's still not really a big issue. If I was to walk into the library, and saw that in the science section I wouldn't really care too much.

I bet you would, if you saw sitting right next to it in the science section: "Christians, The Broken Brain Hypothesis Proven."

Fuck, lets just make shit up as we feel, and call it science.

What The Fuck.

I'm in shock here.

I bet you would, if you saw sitting right next to it in the science section: "Christians, The Broken Brain Hypothesis Proven."

Fuck, lets just make shit up as we feel, and call it science.

x/0=:fluffle:
Where x is whatever you want.

God magic can do anything it wants to.

I dont think that it is magic, just erosion.

For more read this (http://www.peer.org/news/news_id.php?row_id=801)

oh jesus tittyfucking christ's bollocks on a stick :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
please tell me that's not real.



i mean, there's stupid and then there's.... that. and the rest of this religious revival nonsense going on in the states right now. this is why many europeans see your country as outright backward :headbang:

I dont think that it is magic, just erosion.

And a flood could not have eroded the Grand Canyon.

i mean, there's stupid and then there's.... that. and the rest of this religious revival nonsense going on in the states right now. this is why many europeans see your country as outright backward :headbang:

It's true. It wasn't like this when I moved here, it used to be quite a reasonable place and fun to live in. Now though every year it just gets more kafkaesque.

And while I hear about this crap, the Imperial Funeral of G. Ford is on most of the news channels. It's like James Callaghan getting the same send off as Winston Churchill.

The sad thing is that most of the people behind this aren't even very committed christians anyway.

It's true. It wasn't like this when I moved here, it used to be quite a reasonable place and fun to live in. Now though every year it just gets more kafkaesque.

And while I hear about this crap, the Imperial Funeral of G. Ford is on most of the news channels. It's like James Callaghan getting the same send off as Winston Churchill.

The sad thing is that most of the people behind this aren't even very committed christians anyway.

The committed ones would probably go to hell anyway if this is what they get up to.

Science is not a democracy. Science is a meritocracy. Evolution is the equivalent of Batman. YEC is the equivalent of Aquaman. With no limbs. And in a permanent vegetative state. And completely unable to interact with the universe or be interacted with, making it as useless as possible to be.

but a bookstore is a business. if the book has a demand within the group of people who wander into the store, if the store is going to sell it, it belongs in the geology section even if its totally wrong. it is NOT fiction, its just incorrect.

but a bookstore is a business. if the book has a demand within the group of people who wander into the store, if the store is going to sell it, it belongs in the geology section even if its totally wrong. it is NOT fiction, its just incorrect.

And another great title for the science section:

"Women: Why they should stay barefoot and pregnant or else face colorectal cancer".

I can see people wanting that.

but a bookstore is a business. if the book has a demand within the group of people who wander into the store, if the store is going to sell it, it belongs in the geology section even if its totally wrong. it is NOT fiction, its just incorrect.

It's a science bookstore, funded by the government.

In all the commotion over forcing creationism books to be placed in the science section, people have forgotten the Good News coming out of the White House...

... namely, that the Bush Adminstration did not force the store to sell the actual science books in the fiction section. :)

Not really, it doesn't actually insult anyone.

It insults the scientific community and completely denigrates their work.

But they don't count do they? You only can't offend the religious people cause they're, oh, I don't know, idiots who will vote with their ignorance.

And if I've offended anyone, good. Ignorance and dogma don't deserve anything better.

It's a science bookstore, funded by the government.

from what i saw they were already selling the book. if they are going to sell it, it doesnt belong in the fiction section. if they arent going to sell it, well, then its one of a million other books not sold at an nps store. they only have a couple hundred titles at best.

from what i saw they were already selling the book. if they are going to sell it, it doesnt belong in the fiction section.

It doesn't belong in the science section either. And they shouldn't be selling it to begin with. There's been an uproar over that for the past three or more years.

It doesn't belong in the science section either. And they shouldn't be selling it to begin with. There's been an uproar over that for the past three or more years.

of course it belongs in the science section. unless they have a religious section but i dont see why they would.

if its about the grand canyon and it sells, its perfectly fine to have it in the store. creationists visit the grand canyon too.

It insults the scientific community and completely denigrates their work.

But they don't count do they? You only can't offend the religious people cause they're, oh, I don't know, idiots who will vote with their ignorance.

And if I've offended anyone, good. Ignorance and dogma don't deserve anything better.

QFT

Its a truly sad day for human progress when stupidity is considered a good alternative to intelligent thought.

For more read this (http://www.peer.org/news/news_id.php?row_id=801)

I have been reading that many national parks in the US have Christian creationist accounts in their gift shops rather than scientific guides...actually, I think I read that about two years ago in the New Internationalist. I just hoped it was a passing phase...in love with religion again for a short time, like piercings or something.

of course it belongs in the science section. unless they have a religious section but i dont see why they would.

if its about the grand canyon and it sells, its perfectly fine to have it in the store. creationists visit the grand canyon too.

Can I sell my "God, what a bunch of bollocks" in the theology section of the national cathedral then?

of course it belongs in the science section.
It's not science. It belongs in the science section no more than a book on how gravity is caused by invisible goblins belongs in the science section.

unless they have a religious section but i dont see why they would.
Then they shouldn't have the book.

if its about the grand canyon and it sells, its perfectly fine to have it in the store.
Not in the science section.

creationists visit the grand canyon too.
And they go to school as well, doesn't mean they can force their religion to be taught as science there.

“As one park geologist said, this is equivalent of Yellowstone National Park selling a book entitled Geysers of Old Faithful: Nostrils of Satan,”

:D

I wonder is Hannity will get as pissed about this as he would have if it was caused by an atheist or Muslim group.

Can I sell my "God, what a bunch of bollocks" in the theology section of the national cathedral then?

Yes. If you enlighten even one person, it was worth it (especially if they pay for the entire publishing and production costs for that one copy).

I don't want to godwin. But this is like when Nazi Germany sold books like "Jews, the evil menace" in the science section. And people defending that because anti-semites buy books too.

Ahh, now it all makes sense! This ties it all together! Creationism, Christianity, George Bush and the war in Iraq: Neoconic fundie christians can't tell time!!!

Yes. If you enlighten even one person, it was worth it (especially if they pay for the entire publishing and production costs for that one copy).

Well, it's basically a pamphlet. Not really a book.

It just says, "God, what a bunch of bollocks".

Retail. $1.50.

“As one park geologist said, this is equivalent of Yellowstone National Park selling a book entitled Geysers of Old Faithful: Nostrils of Satan,”:D

*looks to the left
*looks to the right
*opens Word

Can I sell my "God, what a bunch of bollocks" in the theology section of the national cathedral then?

Considering that what you said would qualify as theology, yes.

*looks to the left
*looks to the right
*opens WordHuh?

Huh?

Microsoft Word. Word processing program. Implication was that I was going to write said book and try to get Yellowstone to sell it.

Well, it's basically a pamphlet. Not really a book.

It just says, "God, what a bunch of bollocks".

Retail. $1.50.

Well, you should really have a second line giving one reason. That way you have put up a more comprehesive and reasoned argument than the Bible.

Even so, keep spreading the absense of the faith.

Microsoft Word. Word processing program. Implication was that I was going to write said book and try to get Yellowstone to sell it.
Sorry I am kinda slow duh:D

Well, you should really have a second line giving one reason. That way you have put up a more comprehesive and reasoned argument than the Bible.

Even so, keep spreading the absense of the faith.

Yah. You are right. On the back it says: "who falls for this crap?"

Hahaha. I find the US more comical with every passing day. :)

:headbang: Hate...Idiots...Hate...Idiots...Hate...Idiots so much.

if they're going to talk about Creationism at the Grand Canyon, they also need to talk about the Flying Spaghetti Monsterist theory of the canyon being created by a giant noodle.

For more info on the truth: http://www.venganza.org/

For a humorous side-effect of the unseparation of church and state, check this out: http://blog.au.org/2006/12/falwells_flub_j.html

Yours in Spagheditity
M

Well i'm not sure about the first part, but I have heard the second part in greater detail. That was because they put the young earth book in the fiction section, the government decided that offended many people so told the shop to put it in the general section as an alternative theory.

Shouldn't it be in the religion ssection? or was this a small book store?

Shouldn't it be in the religion ssection? or was this a small book store?

Government bookstore. Government science bookstore. Generally not the kind of place where religion would pop up.

Government bookstore. Government science bookstore. Generally not the kind of place where religion would pop up.

Why would a science store have a fiction section?

Ok now that I have reviewed it further, I think the story has been overblown.

Firstly, the Bush administration is not forcing a religious belief onto anyone, it is merely restricting the agency from promoting one belief over any others, and saying that any others are fiction. I disagree with this decision but it is not extreme.

The vast majority of books on sale are old earth books, while there was one young earth book which was originally put into fiction that the government reviewed and decided to put it with the rest of the books to not offend people.

Now I am not saying that I agree with this, but as I said earlier, it is not extreme fundamentalist. They are meerly looking to not offend people. Thats a rather more left wing nanny state sort of thing in my opinion.

Ah, so they are perfectly fine with bashing political correctness everywhere else, but when it involves Christians, it's a no go.

Gotya. Not bias at all.

:D

Why would a science store have a fiction section?

Why would it have a completely unscientific and religious book?

of course it belongs in the science section. unless they have a religious section but i dont see why they would.

if its about the grand canyon and it sells, its perfectly fine to have it in the store.
No it is not. There are specific rules about what can be sold in National Park Stores and simply being about the park and saleable isnt sufficient to meeting those conditions.

creationists visit the grand canyon too.
So do lots of other folks whose spiritual beliefs dont exactly correlate with currently accepted scientific theory, but we are talking about a NSP bookstore not a spiritualism bookstore.

Just to recap, it's not just the sale of the book. There was also a promise of a prompt review which 3 years later has still not happened, nor does it appear it ever will happen - something I suspect is nearly as common as the cliche media-bite "let's all wait for the results from the review". But even that's not the worst of it. Unbelievably if asked the age of the Grand Canyon, NSP workers and guides are not allowed to comment. That's right when little Sally School-girl and Stevie Student turn up on a school field trip and naturally ask their guide "wow, how old is the Grand Canyon Sir/Mam?", the guide will be left stammering and blushing like they were asked "where do babies come from?". Since when was the age of the Grand Canyon a sensitive issue that couldnt be discussed by park employees in public?

What the f**k! I suppose Noah's ark in somewhere in there right?

Just to recap, it's not just the sale of the book. There was also a promise of a prompt review which 3 years later has still not happened, nor does it appear it ever will happen - something I suspect is nearly as common as the cliche media-bite "let's all wait for the results from the review". But even that's not the worst of it. Unbelievably if asked the age of the Grand Canyon, NSP workers and guides are not allowed to comment. That's right when little Sally School-girl and Stevie Student turn up on a school field trip and naturally ask their guide "wow, how old is the Grand Canyon Sir/Mam?", the guide will be left stammering and blushing like they were asked "where do babies come from?". Since when was the age of the Grand Canyon a sensitive issue that couldnt be discussed by park employees in public?

Funny thing about that, apparently, if I remember the article correctly, the institution that deals with science with our government cannot release anything as "science" unless the Administration has thoroughly looked it over, scrutinized it, and basically finds that nothing is going against policy, more or less.

Fun fun, eh?

What the f**k! I suppose Noah's ark in somewhere in there right?

No, of course not. That's in the rocky mountains, and moses parted Lake Superior. Where did you go to school?

No, of course not. That's in the rocky mountains, and moses parted Lake Superior. Where did you go to school?

Comic Alis school of Misinformation, not GW Bush's school of True Faith.

Since when is geology a theory?
Geology is hard scientific fact that we can observe.
Is a volcano a theory?
Is an earthquake a theory?

Maybe you would like to believe that volcanoes are caused by Satan pushing up the fires of Hell through a mountain or that earthquakes and tsunamis are Gods punishment for the acceptance of homosexuality but that does not change the fact that we can see geology happening every day in the world.

A book that claims that the Grand Canyon was created by the Great Flood, without offering an shred of scientific proof, should not be sold in the National Park library in the first place and certainly should not be sold in a section reserved for science books.

If it is sold at all fiction is the right section for it because it is purely fiction!

Why would a science store have a fiction section?

According to the very religious in this country all science is fiction.

Science-fiction, if you will.

Bah, fuck. And the embarrassing slide of the United States into total irrelevance continues. At this point, I just hope that the next two years pass without the government diverting all scientific research funds into the Psychic Friends network and Jerry Falwell. And yet I get the impression that that's a fairly optimistic assessment of this administration's policy on science.

http://www.krankykraut.net/UserFiles/Image/nelson-haha.gif

What a silly country.


I think you forgot the memo re: I'm the only one allowed to use that image:mad:


:rolleyes:

immovingtoirelandinaugustimmovingtoirelandinaugustimmovingtoirelandinaugustimmovingtoirelandinaugust

immovingtoirelandinaugustimmovingtoirelandinaugustimmovingtoirelandinaugustimmovingtoirelandinaugust

I get this feeling that you might be moving somewhere by august...Maybe....Ireland??? Hmm..Just a feeling though.

I am without words. I am absolutely without words... OMG.

Oh noes teh ebil opress0rs, pr1nting one book I d0nt like 1n 0ne shop, teh world is gonna end! :rolleyes:

Typical liberals, one of the most minor issues in the world at the moment, and yet they are whining the most about it.

Oh noes teh ebil opress0rs, pr1nting one book I d0nt like 1n 0ne shop, teh world is gonna end! :rolleyes:

You might want to try reading not only the thread, but the article in question before making yourself look stupid. Unless of course making yourself look stupid is your main goal here, in which case, disregard.

You might want to try reading not only the thread, but the article in question before making yourself look stupid. Unless of course making yourself look stupid is your main goal here, in which case, disregard.

It's true though, you are whining about practically nothing.

It's true though, you are whining about practically nothing.

The point is that the Administration is supporting non-science as science, albeit a bit indirectly.

Oh noes teh ebil opress0rs, pr1nting one book I d0nt like 1n 0ne shop, teh world is gonna end! :rolleyes:

Typical liberals, one of the most minor issues in the world at the moment, and yet they are whining the most about it.

No, it's the government forcing an obviously non-science book to be sold in the science section of the grand canyon bookstore.
Even though the actual event may be minor, it shows the mindset of the Bush administration on this.

It's true though, you are whining about practically nothing.

Again, even though technically this isn't that major of an issue, it still shows what Bush and cronies are thinking about this kind of thing.

It's true though, you are whining about practically nothing.

The Grand Canyon National Park is a rather important American feature. (And like all national parks, it's publically funded. My tax dollars - my blood, sweat, tears, time, energy and life itself - go towards that and similar civil works.)

The continuation of science and the education of the American people is rather important to the continuation of Western Civilization.

So I don't consider attempts to destroy these things "practically nothing," nor is pointing them out constitution of "whining." Nor am I a "typical liberal" for that matter, but hey - it's easier to make idiotic generalizations than to actually talk with people, isn't it?

The Grand Canyon National Park is a rather important American feature. (And like all national parks, it's publically funded. My tax dollars - my blood, sweat, tears, time, energy and life itself - go towards that and similar civil works.)


Probably about 0.001% of what you earn is actually going to that shop


So I don't consider attempts to destroy these things "practically nothing,"

I'm sorry, but the USA is currently the greatest nation for scientific research, which isn't being stopped at all by the government. The fact they allowed the sale of one book that offers an alternative opinion is hardly "destroying the development of science", unless you are insane that is.

Probably about 0.001% of what you earn is actually going to that shop

Oh, so it's a SMALL part, hence, unimportant. Socialists and communists use that excuse to raise taxes in the first place. Oh, just a little bit here, a little bit there.
Marginalizing people's finances, time, energy is not a good argument for anything.

I'm sorry, but the USA is currently the greatest nation for scientific research, which isn't being stopped at all by the government. The fact they allowed the sale of one book

Again, you apparently haven't bothered reading the article. Come back when you have.

Oh, so it's a SMALL part, hence, unimportant. Socialists and communists use that excuse to raise taxes in the first place. Oh, just a little bit here, a little bit there.
Marginalizing people's finances, time, energy is not a good argument for anything.


It's not a small part, it's a practically non existant part that doesn't really even affect you at all.


Again, you apparently haven't bothered reading the article. Come back when you have.

The only other thing it mentions is that the sight is not allowed to give an official statement on the exact date of the age. How is that stopping any sort of scientific progress, it's not stopping any sort of scientifc research at all.

For more read this (http://www.peer.org/news/news_id.php?row_id=801)

https://cms.imr.nps.gov/grca/naturescience/index.htm
Funny, doesn't seem so from their official website.

It's not a small part, it's a practically non existant part that doesn't really even affect you at all.

I'm sure that as a bright guy yourself, you can think of many things that don't "really even affect you," yet which you care about.

Every item paid for by taxation is a "practically non existant part." They bleed us dry, molecule by molecule. I'm not gonna just shrug and go, "well, all those molecules are so small, they must not matter. La la la, do what you want with my money!" I'm gonna voice my opinion because I'm an American Citizen who pays taxes.

The only other thing it mentions is that the sight is not allowed to give an official statement on the exact date of the age. How is that stopping any sort of scientific progress, it's not stopping any sort of scientifc research at all.

the REASON it is not allowed to is because oh no, it might offend Creationists. Now again, you are a bright guy, so you can imagine why this precedent is not a good thing for scientific progress.

Sad. It was originally the mantra of the Republican party and the Conservatives for "little government" but the Neo-Cons have transformed the Republican party into a "big government" party, hence my break with them. This is just an endorsement of serious bad taste.

I'm sure that as a bright guy yourself, you can think of many things that don't "really even affect you," yet which you care about.

Every item paid for by taxation is a "practically non existant part." They bleed us dry, molecule by molecule. I'm not gonna just shrug and go, "well, all those molecules are so small, they must not matter. La la la, do what you want with my money!" I'm gonna voice my opinion because I'm an American Citizen who pays taxes.


I still don't see it as a reason to complain. It would be if a large portion of your taxation is aiding in corrupt governmental policies, but not if a practically non existent portion is aiding in a very minor issue.


the REASON it is not allowed to is because oh no, it might offend Creationists. Now again, you are a bright guy, so you can imagine why this precedent is not a good thing for scientific progress.

As Hydesland pointed out at the beggining, that sounds like more of a "left wing nanny state" idea then a rightwing enforcement of morality. But I don't see how this is going to stop scientests from making any progress.

I still don't see it as a reason to complain. It would be if a large portion of your taxation is aiding in corrupt governmental policies, but not if a practically non existent portion is aiding in a very minor issue.

Every dollar counts. Because you know, if I don't pay every dollar of taxes, they put me into prison. So yeah, it's important enough to get imprisoned for, it's important enough to care about enough to post on a fucking internet forum.

As Hydesland pointed out at the beggining, that sounds like more of a "left wing nanny state" idea then a rightwing enforcement of morality. But I don't see how this is going to stop scientests from making any progress.

"Nanny states" funded by ridiculous amounts of taxation and a few assholes getting to decide how best to use money they didn't earn is not limited to the "left" or "right" wing.

And this is not going to single-handedly stop scientists from making progress. Strawman. If you don't get the concepts of "precedent" and "public repression of scientific knowledge" then there's not much more I can do to explain.

Every dollar counts. Because you know, if I don't pay every dollar of taxes, they put me into prison. So yeah, it's important enough to get imprisoned for, it's important enough to care about enough to post on a fucking internet forum.



"Nanny states" funded by ridiculous amounts of taxation and a few assholes getting to decide how best to use money they didn't earn is not limited to the "left" or "right" wing.

And this is not going to single-handedly stop scientists from making progress. Strawman. If you don't get the concepts of "precedent" and "public repression of scientific knowledge" then there's not much more I can do to explain.

There was something I wanted to say about swimming across a river but then having somebody throw a monkey on your back and still being able to swim across the river but now you have a damned monkey on your back -- it was going to be a metaphor. I can't put it together.


sorry.