NationStates Jolt Archive

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I've been wondering about this. The 1st amendment states that the Government, cannot make an established state religion, nor can it prohibited the free exercise of religion, however, is Scientology really religion, does Scientology have protection under the 1st amendment, or can we run them out of our country and burn down their mansions?

This is the first thing I've read on here that has actually made me laugh out loud. No, not a mean-laugh just a real laugh since this is the sort of thing that everybody thinks and secretly wishes to do, but no one actually says it out loud.

Unfortunately, I do think Scientology is officially a religion, and therefore is protected.

So unless the start up with the human sacrifice, they are protected.

Yes, Scientology is covered by the First. And weird rich people with access to the best lawyers money can buy.

If people are stupid enough to voluntarily fall for Scientology's nonsense, and are not coerced in so doing, I see no reason to prosecute the cult. You say you are capitalist Wilgrove; time you picked up the non-aggression axiom.

I guess it would count as a religion don’t think they should get tax breaks though since its pretty much a business

It seems that it would actually be questionable. After Waco, I'm not sure what the government is willing to tolerate, and what we are not.

After all, cults and religion are incredibly similar.

It SHOULD get first amendment protection, but I see problems with getting that.

What's interesting is the many deaths that are associated with Scientology....

This is the first thing I've read on here that has actually made me laugh out loud. No, not a mean-laugh just a real laugh since this is the sort of thing that everybody thinks and secretly wishes to do, but no one actually says it out loud.

Unfortunately, I do think Scientology is officially a religion, and therefore is protected.

So unless the start up with the human sacrifice, they are protected.

What can I say, I speak my mind. :D

Personally I would keep the mansion in Florida, and just turn it into my own personal fun house.

What's interesting is the many deaths that are associated with Scientology....

Ooo, intrigue. Do tell.

Scientology as a religion is protected. The right of Scientologists to kill people through malpractice or to harass, slander and libel people is not.

Of course, a lotta money and a few lawyers goes a long way to getting extra rights. Thank Xenu for the American Justice System.

Scientology as a religion is protected. The right of Scientologists to kill people through malpractice or to harass, slander and libel people is not.

Of course, a lotta money and a few lawyers goes a long way to getting extra rights. Thank Xenu for the American Justice System.

It's true, Money can buy "Justice". :(

Ooo, intrigue. Do tell.

All you really have to do is go to google and google "Scientology death"

just for clarification on another topic... does atheism count as a religion? breaking it down you get a, meaning none or without, and theism, or god or belief in god. so, essentially, you get without god or without belief in god.

It's true, Money can buy "Justice". :(

It's conflicting for me. I believe in a free market, and the free sale of goods and services; including legal ones. And yet, I can definitely recognize that the more money you have to pay, the better quality legal aid you can hire. And that the government, spending so much money on killing Iraqis, is not in a position to pay its own public defendants competitive wages.

How to solve this problem? I guess my solution would be to increase the budget that goes to the public legal system, not by increasing taxes but by diverting from less necessary sectors, like the Department of Homeland Security, which as far as I can see is nothing but a fat federal cow designed to appeal to the border-control constituents in the current administration. 27.8 billion going to DHS, compared with about 1.5 billion going to the Dept of Justice United States Attorneys. http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy07/browse.html

But, the threat of terrorism sells; it gets votes; providing lawyers to people does not.

just for clarification on another topic... does atheism count as a religion? breaking it down you get a, meaning none or without, and theism, or god or belief in god. so, essentially, you get without god or without belief in god.

personally, as an agnostic, I view atheism as a religion since it is a belief based upon faith.

Although, athiests will fight you to the death over such a statement.

just for clarification on another topic... does atheism count as a religion? breaking it down you get a, meaning none or without, and theism, or god or belief in god. so, essentially, you get without god or without belief in god.

Atheism is a religion no more than bald is a hair color.

just for clarification on another topic... does atheism count as a religion? breaking it down you get a, meaning none or without, and theism, or god or belief in god. so, essentially, you get without god or without belief in god.

I would say no, however it is protected as free speech.

just for clarification on another topic... does atheism count as a religion? breaking it down you get a, meaning none or without, and theism, or god or belief in god. so, essentially, you get without god or without belief in god.

Atheism is not a religion. there is no central beleif, structure, anything. There is nothing religious about it.

It is, however, still protected under the first as freedom of speech, and, by a stretch, under the religion clause as the lack of religion being equally protected as a religion.

27.8 billion going to DHS, compared with about 1.5 billion going to the Dept of Justice United States Attorneys

Speaking of budget cows, last i checked, 1/3 of the defense department's budget goes to transporting oil from foreign countries. in a nutshell, i believe thats about 333 billion per year JUST to transport the oil.

Atheism is not a religion. there is no central beleif, structure, anything. There is nothing religious about it.

It is, however, still protected under the first as freedom of speech, and, by a stretch, under the religion clause as the lack of religion being equally protected as a religion.

aha. by a stretch. yeah, i knew it was protected speech (hell, kkk speach is protected) but i was really wanting a clarification of atheism for some reason or another.

Ok, can we please have the "Is Atheism a religion" in it's own thread?

aha. by a stretch. yeah, i knew it was protected speech (hell, kkk speach is protected) but i was really wanting a clarification of atheism for some reason or another.

That, of course, is only my interpretation...a lack of religion should be as protected as the presence of any given religion. Atheism will never be a religion, though.

Atheism is not a religion. there is no central beleif, structure, anything. There is nothing religious about it.

No central belief?

What about the belief that there is no god? That seems pretty central, and uniform, across the board for atheists.

Nothing religious?

What about the fact that it is a belief based upon faith--- meaning it has absolutely no proof to back it up. That's basically the definition of regligion, since faith is the single factor that binds all religion together.

What about the belief that there is no god?
Not believing in a god =/= believing there is no god.

Do scientologists have a winter holiday, in response to Christmas, Hannakah, etc?

personally, as an agnostic, I view atheism as a religion since it is a belief based upon faith.

Although, athiests will fight you to the death over such a statement.

Yes, yes we will. There is no faith involved.

Yes, yes we will. There is no faith involved.

:rolleyes:

and my thread has been hijacked. :rolleyes:

I've been wondering about this. The 1st amendment states that the Government, cannot make an established state religion, nor can it prohibited the free exercise of religion, however, is Scientology really religion, does Scientology have protection under the 1st amendment, or can we run them out of our country and burn down their mansions?
http://theunfunnytruth.ytmnd.com/

http://theunfunnysequel.ytmnd.com/

Let's face it, Scientology is an evil murdering cult bent on obtaining as much money as possible for no good reason. I have no problem with businesses, unless they practice unfair business. And Scientology practices the most unfair business I've ever seen. Down with Scientolo--*sniped by Scientologist*

and my thread has been hijacked. :rolleyes:

eh, i was getting tired of the whole all-under-one-banner thread anyway... :D

Awhile back, when Scientology was the thing to talk about in NSG, didn't we have a Scientologist come in to defend the cult?

Speaking of budget cows, last i checked, 1/3 of the defense department's budget goes to transporting oil from foreign countries. in a nutshell, i believe thats about 333 billion per year JUST to transport the oil.

Source? Cuz uh, the US doesn't spend 1 trillion on defense and I'm not sure what you mean by "transporting oil from foreign countries."

Awhile back, when Scientology was the thing to talk about in NSG, didn't we have a Scientologist come in to defend the cult?
Well, I can be the devil's advocate for this Scientology thread.
*ahem*
You're all bigots for criticizing our beliefs, which we will prove later on to be completely true by suing you into poverty.
So um...
:upyours:

Well, I can be the devil's advocate for this Scientology thread.
*ahem*
You're all bigots for criticizing our beliefs, which we will prove later on to be completely true.
So um...
:upyours:

That sounded about right. :p

Well, I can be the devil's advocate for this Scientology thread.
*ahem*
You're all bigots for criticizing our beliefs, which we will prove later on to be completely true.


Almost right.
You're all bigots for criticizing our beliefs, which we will prove later on to be completely true by suing you into poverty.

I think the US is one of the only nations which classifies Scientology as a religion.

I remember hearing a case where a bunch of scientologists in Greece were arrested for having classified military files.

just for clarification on another topic... does atheism count as a religion? breaking it down you get a, meaning none or without, and theism, or god or belief in god. so, essentially, you get without god or without belief in god.

Oddly enough it is classed as a religion under the UK's Incitement to Religious Hatred Act.[/threadjacks]

I don't see why this silly belief is any different then a number of other religious organizations ...

Being silly and a religion is not mutually exclusive (hell some times it feels like they are inevitably tied together but thats for another time ...)

What i don't get is how some old guy can just walk in make up a new religion and then BAM hes exempt from tax. How does that shit work? How do you go about creating your own religion? I was trying out micronationalism so why can't i have a go at making my own religion? Can i make it the order of holy snipers?









From the order of the holy snipers: :sniper:

Atheism is not a religion. there is no central beleif, structure, anything. There is nothing religious about it.

It is, however, still protected under the first as freedom of speech, and, by a stretch, under the religion clause as the lack of religion being equally protected as a religion.As the Texas supreme court recently ruled. Atheism is to be treated as a religion for legal puposes. Including having their meeting place and organizations tax free.

Almost right.
You're all bigots for criticizing our beliefs, which we will prove later on to be completely true by suing you into poverty.

hey don't forget having them followed, harrasing them, killing their pets and making it holy duty of every scientologist to make their life worse.

If you want to know more www.xenu.org

Awhile back, when Scientology was the thing to talk about in NSG, didn't we have a Scientologist come in to defend the cult?

Considering the crap I've been seeing on here in the last few weeks, I wouldn't doubt that. Now that I think about it, this place almost seemed normal until Year 12 finished and I had too much free time.... almost :D

Would organizations of the freezone be counted as religions as well? The Freezone is the non-evil (not Church of Scientology based) community, who believes in the teachings of Hubbard.

I think we should amend the !1st amendment to read at the end......."except for Scientology, those guys are wackjobs!" Im pretty sure we can get 3/4 of the states to ratify this.

I think we should amend the !1st amendment to read at the end......."except for Scientology, those guys are wackjobs!" Im pretty sure we can get 3/4 of the states to ratify this.

You'd get sued.

Nope, you can make any changes to the Constitution you want if it goes thru the legal ratification process. Lawsuits are based on what the Constitution says. You cant sue the Constitution you can only interpret it or change it thru a ratification process. Its the "Lawsuit rulebook" so to speak.

Why do people have so much hatred for scientology, don't get me wrong they are a bunch of absolute wackos, but they don't do anything particularly annoying or extreme.

What i don't get is how some old guy can just walk in make up a new religion and then BAM hes exempt from tax. How does that shit work? How do you go about creating your own religion? I was trying out micronationalism so why can't i have a go at making my own religion? Can i make it the order of holy snipers?









From the order of the holy snipers: :sniper:



HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!1 ANSWER MY QUESTION!!!


From the order of the holy snipers: :sniper:

Why do people have so much hatred for scientology, don't get me wrong they are a bunch of absolute wackos, but they don't do anything particularly annoying or extreme.
Operation Snow White was not extreme?

I've been wondering about this. The 1st amendment states that the Government, cannot make an established state religion, nor can it prohibited the free exercise of religion, however, is Scientology really religion, does Scientology have protection under the 1st amendment, or can we run them out of our country and burn down their mansions?

1) Apparently so.
2) As an established religion it does have 1st Amendment protection, although it seems to enjoy trying to curtail others' 1st Amendment rights to criticize it.
3) Score minus several zillion for religious tolerance/abiding by the laws of the nation you claim to love.

What's interesting is the many deaths that are associated with Scientology....

Sources, please.

HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!1 ANSWER MY QUESTION!!!


From the order of the holy snipers: :sniper:

HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!1 nobody takes anyone seriously who uses sniper smilies, ALLCAPS and 1s as !s.

Why do people have so much hatred for scientology, don't get me wrong they are a bunch of absolute wackos, but they don't do anything particularly annoying or extreme.

Corrupting idiots who will believe that crap annoys me. Also teaching people that babies should be delivered as silently and with as little anaesthetic as possible also annoys me.

Hubbard was bitterly critical of psychiatry's citation of physical causes for mental disorders, such as chemical imbalances in the brain. Hubbard's statements deny that psychiatry, through the scientific method, has shown some psychiatric disorders are related to anatomical and chemical cerebral anomalies. He regarded psychiatrists as denying human spirituality and peddling fake cures. He was also convinced psychiatrists were themselves deeply unethical individuals, committing "extortion, mayhem and murder. Our files are full of evidence on them." Many of the areas in which his criticism is directed have since been discredited in mainstream psychiatry - electro-shock therapy, for example, is now only used under anesthesia and muscle relaxants, and lobotomy is a defunct procedure.

This also annoys me.

Sources, please.

While the number of deaths assocoaited with scientology are a small handful, the number of dead Presidents assocoiated with scientology is simply astounding.

And to have the cahonjes to infiltrate the offices of the IRS and other government offices and to steal and manipulate confidential government files on people to be used against the enemies of scientology, and also known as the largest infiltration of goverment offices in the history of modern US government, goes into the realm of such unbelievability as to be the realm of fiction novels. (sorry for the run-on sentence)

Unfortunately, if they call themselves a religion, they are a religion. However, I'm pretty sure there will be no objections if we do this. I got dibs on the guy who voiced Chef.

Scientology is great, none of the other big religions are that funny. Thetans, teeheehee.

Wilgrove: Now with only an Id!

Wilgrove: Now with only an Id!

I have two Super Egos now. Don't know what happened to the ego.

I have two Super Egos now. Don't know what happened to the ego.

Do you have an id? Or just two superegos?


I'M A PIMP NOW FOOLS!!!

1) Apparently so.
2) As an established religion it does have 1st Amendment protection, although it seems to enjoy trying to curtail others' 1st Amendment rights to criticize it.
3) Score minus several zillion for religious tolerance/abiding by the laws of the nation you claim to love.

1) It's only fair. Recognize one lunatic cult, you gotta recognize them all.
2) Quite ironic, isn't it.
3) Indeed. I thought Wilgrove called himself a "libertarian."

Do you have an id? Or just two superegos?


I'M A PIMP NOW FOOLS!!!

I have one, but I could do with another. Another ego would be good too, then I could be two people.

Ooo, intrigue. Do tell.

Here (http://theunfunnytruth.ytmnd.com/)are a few suspicious incidents surrounding the "church" of Scientology. Enjoy! ^_^