NationStates Jolt Archive

Didnt think they would do this quickly like this.

http://www.cnn.com/

The title was a typo. It is going to happen in two hours. Hope they show this on tv. Want to see this clown hang myself.

How perverse. I hope they don't film it, so youtube doesn't explode with all the crazies desperate to wank over Saddam's death.

How perverse. I hope they don't film it, so youtube doesn't explode with all the crazies desperate to wank over Saddam's death.

There's probably already parodies of it on there.

although hes a mass murderer dictator asshole, I still find it sad that in this and age the death penalty still lingers, I wish people would just move on from this medieval practice.

Hope they show this on tv. Want to see this clown hang myself.

Luckily that won't happen, so your insane bloodlust won't be quenched tonight.

Luckily that won't happen, so your insane bloodlust won't be quenched tonight.

Yes, Hussein bloodlust. :D

Didnt think they would do this quickly like this.

http://www.cnn.com/

The title was a typo. It is going to happen in two hours. Hope they show this on tv. Want to see this clown hang myself.
What is it with you right wing, wannabe Christian, sickos? You have blood lust?

I guess all I can do is pray for your sorry asses.

NSG is like a Saddam death countdown clock.

the husband tells me that cnn keeps reporting that husseins lawyers are appealing in US courts on various grounds, the latest being that hussein would prefer to be shot than hung. humanitarian grounds.

we cant figure out what jurisidiction the US could possibly have and if its going to make us look better that our courts keep granting their motions.

Here's an idea- let's let the OP travel to Iraq and skin him with a cheesegrater, then film him using the blood as lube for wanking.

the husband tells me that cnn keeps reporting that husseins lawyers are appealing in US courts on various grounds, the latest being that hussein would prefer to be shot than hung. humanitarian grounds.

we cant figure out what jurisidiction the US could possibly have and if its going to make us look better that our courts keep granting their motions.

He's in US custody.

It probably won't be televised immediatley, but I'm sure someone will film it.
Where are the YouTube parodies?

What is it with you right wing, wannabe Christian, sickos? You have blood lust?

I guess all I can do is pray for your sorry asses.

I want to see this killer hang. Is that bloodlust? Is that sick? No I dont think so. As for your refference to right wing Christian. I am a moderate Muslim. See don't fit your nice little stereotype.:rolleyes:

Here's an idea- let's let the OP travel to Iraq and skin him with a cheesegrater, then film him using the blood as lube for wanking.

Been to Iraq. Although it was 15 years ago. I never said I wanted to kill him. I want to see this sorry SOB hang for what he has done. Thats about it. Don't need to see blood and gore.

the husband tells me that cnn keeps reporting that husseins lawyers are appealing in US courts on various grounds, the latest being that hussein would prefer to be shot than hung. humanitarian grounds.

we cant figure out what jurisidiction the US could possibly have and if its going to make us look better that our courts keep granting their motions.


Well he is in US custody and don't know if how exactly that will pertain to them carrying out the death sentance.

the husband tells me that cnn keeps reporting that husseins lawyers are appealing in US courts on various grounds, the latest being that hussein would prefer to be shot than hung. humanitarian grounds.

we cant figure out what jurisidiction the US could possibly have and if its going to make us look better that our courts keep granting their motions.1. the husband? yours? whose?

2. why would an Iraqi court care what appeals are filed in US courts?

Saddam has only an hour and a half to live.

And his lawyer, a nitwit, is suing in US court to stop the execution.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16389128/

Funny thing is that someone forgot to tell the lawyer that US courts have zero jurisdiction in Iraq.

1. the husband? yours? whose?

2. why would an Iraqi court care what appeals are filed in US courts?

He is in US custody. I am sure that has something to do with Ashmoria's comment.

I want to see this killer hang. Is that bloodlust? Is that sick? No I dont think so.

You want to see someone die, but you don't think that's sick? Why?

I know you intended for that to be a rhetorical question, hence why you answered it - very subtle - but honestly, wanting to see someone die qualifies as anything from "creepy" to "disgusting" in my book.

I wish I had wrote him a letter now asking to be put in the will :(

He is in US custody. I am sure that has something to do with Ashmoria's comment.He is not in US custody anymore.

Here's an idea- let's let the OP travel to Iraq and skin him with a cheesegrater, then film him using the blood as lube for wanking.

why not just skin him (etc) where he is? save on airfares...

He's in US custody.

officially?

it doesnt seem to be enough for us to be able to make a ruling on whether or not his trial was fair or if its inhumane to execute him with other than his preferred method.

Well he is in US custody and don't know if how exactly that will pertain to them carrying out the death sentance.

The Courts can say what they like. The President can choose to ignore their ruling and go ahead with the handover, which is what I think he will.

You want to see someone die, but you don't think that's sick? Why?

I know you intended for that to be a rhetorical question, hence why you answered it - very subtle - but honestly, wanting to see someone die qualifies as anything from "creepy" to "disgusting" in my book.

I want to see this guy's end. Some may feel its morbid but I have a more then passing interest really. Was in the first gulf war and have a feeling we should have finished him then. This for me will provide some satisfaction. If you can't understand that then I don't have any other way to explain to you.

I want to see this killer hang. Is that bloodlust? Is that sick? No I dont think so. As for your refference to right wing Christian. I am a moderate Muslim. See don't fit your nice little stereotype.:rolleyes:
You have blood lust and you are sick. As a self labeled "moderate Muslim", you fit right in with the right wing Christian wannabe nut jobs.

although hes a mass murderer dictator asshole, I still find it sad that in this and age the death penalty still lingers, I wish people would just move on from this medieval practice.

Shows a lot for the civilised society we have created doesn't it ?

why not just skin him (etc) where he is? save on airfares...

He's only a humvee ride away from where the gallows are located. No airfare needed.

You have blood lust and you are sick. As a self labeled "moderate Muslim", you fit right in with the right wing Christian wannabe nut jobs.

Like I said before over and over your a whacko. So say what you will. Don't really give a crap.

An execution during Eid would be highly symbolic. The feast marks the sacrifice the prophet Abraham was prepared to make when God ordered him to kill his son and many Shiites could regard Saddam’s death as a gift from God

twists of religion

I want to see this guy's end. Some may feel its morbid but I have a more then passing interest really. Was in the first gulf war and have a feeling we should have finished him then. This for me will provide some satisfaction. If you can't understand that then I don't have any other way to explain to you.

I don't need it explained - I'm just curious why you think gaining "satisfaction" from watching someone die doesn't qualify as "sick" or "bloodlust."

2. why would an Iraqi court care what appeals are filed in US courts?

according to the husband cnn reported that a US court issued a stay and the iraqis werent impressed. i cant imagine why they would be.

If you can't understand that then I don't have any other way to explain to you.Of course not.

officially?

it doesnt seem to be enough for us to be able to make a ruling on whether or not his trial was fair or if its inhumane to execute him with other than his preferred method.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6217725.stm

US officials have denied reports that former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein has been transferred to Iraqi custody, as speculation mounts about his execution.

I want to see this killer hang. Is that bloodlust? Is that sick? No I dont think so. As for your refference to right wing Christian. I am a moderate Muslim. See don't fit your nice little stereotype.:rolleyes:

yes, it is sick. I don't say that to insult you, but wanting to see anyone die is perverse.

Saddam has only an hour and a half to live.

god rest his childish, wounded soul.

I want to see this guy's end. Some may feel its morbid but I have a more then passing interest really. Was in the first gulf war and have a feeling we should have finished him then. This for me will provide some satisfaction. If you can't understand that then I don't have any other way to explain to you.
How nice, you want closure!! What about the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis that are dying as a result of the US invasion? Whose head should roll next? War on terror my ass.

There's probably already parodies of it on there.

Indeed.
http://ytmnd.com/sites/profile/686210

Note my comment on the comments list. I would have written more but they have a character limit set.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6217725.stm
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/FAE3F78A-F993-44FB-AA13-C9B937B1B7B4.htm

I want to see this guy's end. Some may feel its morbid but I have a more then passing interest really. Was in the first gulf war and have a feeling we should have finished him then. This for me will provide some satisfaction. If you can't understand that then I don't have any other way to explain to you.

But why do you want to see it? That's the sick and morbid part in my view. Isn't it enough to know the he's dead?

god rest his childish, wounded soul.which god and what's a soul?

How nice, you want closure!! What about the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis that are dying as a result of the US invasion? Whose head should roll next? War on terror my ass.

Last time I checked the vast majority of Iraqi civilians were not killed by US forces. Am I wrong? We are trained NOT to kill civilians.

Najeeb al-Nueimi, a member of Saddam’s legal team, said U.S. authorities were maintaining physical custody of Saddam to prevent him from being humiliated before his execution. He said the Americans also want to prevent the mutilation of his corpse, as has happened to other deposed Iraqi leaders.

“The Americans want him to be hanged respectfully,” al-Nueimi said. If Saddam is humiliated publicly or his corpse ill-treated, “that could cause an uprising, and the Americans would be blamed,” he said.

America, looking out for its own interest.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/FAE3F78A-F993-44FB-AA13-C9B937B1B7B4.htm

Yeah, that's over 6 hours older than my link.

Well, he can look on the bright side: He doesn't have to do his 25 years in prison they gave him.
What kind of idiot gives him death and prison, but kills him first?
Firing squad
:mp5:
:mp5:
:mad: :mp5:
:mp5:
:mp5:

Free Saddam!

yes, it is sick. I don't say that to insult you, but wanting to see anyone die is perverse.



god rest his childish, wounded soul.

eh? Don't you mean demonic soul?

Like I said before over and over your a whacko. So say what you will. Don't really give a crap.
You can rationalize and justify all you like, but the blood is on your hands, not mine my friend.

Last time I checked the vast majority of Iraqi civilians were not killed by US forces. Am I wrong? We are trained NOT to kill civilians.

Most of the civilians killed in Iraq were killed by Al Qaeda in Iraq. Not by US forces and Saddam loyalists. I would venture 80%.

Most of the civilians killed in Iraq were killed by Al Qaeda in Iraq. Not by US forces and Saddam loyalists. I would venture 80%.Yeah, but US forces kindly let Al Qaeda into Iraq. The US had no clue what they were doing from the get-go.

[quote]Defense lawyer Khalil al-Dulaimi told Reuters Saddam had been handed to the Iraqi authorities and that attorneys had been told they could not visit their client.[quote]
they have Saddam. No more doubting that.

Last time I checked the vast majority of Iraqi civilians were not killed by US forces. Am I wrong? We are trained NOT to kill civilians.
You are too blinded by your ideological blinders to see the damage that the US invasion has inflicted upon Iraq? 1 Iraqi death at the hands of US invasionary forces, was one death too many.

What is it with you right wing, wannabe Christian, sickos? You have blood lust?

I guess all I can do is pray for your sorry asses.

When you're against sex for any purpose other than procreation, yah gotta have some kind of lust.

You can rationalize and justify all you like, but the blood is on your hands, not mine my friend.

Im curious to you and the rest that are crying bloodlust and sick. Do you watch TV at all? Do you watch cops, any of the varying rescue shows? Any of the Medical shows or the news. You and the rest of us have watched people die over and over on tv. I'm not even talking about the movies that are put out there for entertainment. I'm talking real life death or injury of people on tv. Do you or anyone else turn the channel because its sick? I doubt you do most of the time. Thing is you and the rest are accusing me of being sick and bloodlusted whilst you guys watch it for entertainment on tv. Isn't a bit twisted? Think about it.

they have Saddam. No more doubting that.

Except that:

US denies Saddam handed to Iraq

Most of the civilians killed in Iraq were killed by Al Qaeda in Iraq.
That is bullshit. :eek:

Not by US forces and Saddam loyalists. I would venture 80%.
Civil war courtesy of US invasion.

"The Iraqi prime minister said those who oppose the execution of Saddam were insulting the honor of his victims. "

He's right man.

Except that:

US denies Saddam handed to IraqBut then again, has the US ever known what was going on on the ground in Iraq?

Last time I checked the vast majority of Iraqi civilians were not killed by US forces. Am I wrong? We are trained NOT to kill civilians.

that's why you use weapons like grenades and bombs, which never, ever have civilian casualties! I can think of several instances in which I heard of american troops doing things like opening fire on a van full of women and children "by mistake". oops. didn't mean to slaughter 15 innocent people. my bad. after the first dozen instances like that I read about, I stopped following the war at all. it's disgusting.

obviously the training didn't stick. you know what the best way to avoid killing civilians is? don't invade their fucking country. the majority of democratic nations got that way by their own people deciding to set up a democratic government, often peacefully, sometimes not - and frankly, dictators don't have any power people don't give them. it's nobody's place to decide how another person's life should be run - that includes one nation remaking another in its own image. vengence on a dozen murderers isn't worth one innocent life, let alone the massive casualties this war has caused. this war accomplished nothing and only served to bolster hatred on both sides of the fence and ruin many lives.

Yeah, but US forces kindly let Al Qaeda into Iraq. The US had no clue what they were doing from the get-go.

yeah but the insinuation in this thread was that it was the US that was killing the Iraqi civilians.
And we didn't let them in. They snuck in through Iran who gladly gave them money and weapons and IEDs.

But then again, has the US ever known what was going on on the ground in Iraq?

If he's in their custody one would hope so.

You are too blinded by your ideological blinders to see the damage that the US invasion has inflicted upon Iraq? 1 Iraqi death at the hands of US invasionary forces, was one death too many.

I'm a soldier at heart. I'm not now in active duty but was. I was called up for war and went and did my duty. Do people die? Yes they do. Why did these people die for? Basically to remove a tumor from Kuwait. Some times death is unavoidable. In fact we all die. Some die in car wrecks and some die from a 150mm smooth bore gun. I have resigned to that fact.

Im curious to you and the rest that are crying bloodlust and sick. Do you watch TV at all? Do you watch cops, any of the varying rescue shows? Any of the Medical shows or the news. You and the rest of us have watched people die over and over on tv. I'm not even talking about the movies that are put out there for entertainment. I'm talking real life death or injury of people on tv. Do you or anyone else turn the channel because its sick? I doubt you do most of the time. Thing is you and the rest are accusing me of being sick and bloodlusted whilst you guys watch it for entertainment on tv. Isn't a bit twisted? Think about it.
I rarely watch TV anymore and certainly not to take "satisfaction" in another human beings death. You are just perverse and in a sense, no better then the people you claim to be sadistic monsters.

"The Iraqi prime minister said those who oppose the execution of Saddam were insulting the honor of his victims. "

He's right man.

any honor or dignity that can only be had at the expense of another person, however "bad" they are, is a sham. that's the same sort of logic that had whites protesting black rights - when you define yourself as valuable and dignified only based on someone else's disgrace, you're only lying.

I'm a soldier at heart. I'm not now in active duty but was. I was called up for war and went and did my duty. Do people die? Yes they do. Why did these people die for? Basically to remove a tumor from Kuwait. Some times death is unavoidable. In fact we all die. Some die in car wrecks and some die from a 150mm smooth bore gun. I have resigned to that fact.

death is always unavoidable. killing, on the other hand, is always avoidable.

But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others?

I quote that not because I think the bible has any sort of automatic authority, but simply because truer words have never been said.

Didnt think they would do this quickly like this.

http://www.cnn.com/

The title was a typo. It is going to happen in two hours. Hope they show this on tv. Want to see this clown hang myself.
*prepares to masturbate*

that's why you use weapons like grenades and bombs, which never, ever have civilian casualties! I can think of several instances in which I heard of american troops doing things like opening fire on a van full of women and children "by mistake". oops. didn't mean to slaughter 15 innocent people. my bad. after the first dozen instances like that I read about, I stopped following the war at all. it's disgusting.

obviously the training didn't stick. you know what the best way to avoid killing civilians is? don't invade their fucking country. the majority of democratic nations got that way by their own people deciding to set up a democratic government, often peacefully, sometimes not - and frankly, dictators don't have any power people don't give them. it's nobody's place to decide how another person's life should be run - that includes one nation remaking another in its own image. vengence on a dozen murderers isn't worth one innocent life, let alone the massive casualties this war has caused. this war accomplished nothing and only served to bolster hatred on both sides of the fence and ruin many lives.

Have you ever been in the military? You sound like you haven't and everything you are saying is not only doggy poop but highly insulting to people serving in the US military.

I rarely watch TV anymore and certainly not to take "satisfaction" in another human beings death. You are just perverse and in a sense, no better then the people you claim to be sadistic monsters.

In no way can you possibly compare me to being no better then Saddam. Your getting out there even by your standards.

yeah but the insinuation in this thread was that it was the US that was killing the Iraqi civilians.
And we didn't let them in. They snuck in through Iran who gladly gave them money and weapons and IEDs.The fucking US opened Iraq for all kinds of people who hoped to gain by this war. The US is simply incompetent to successfully start, lead, and end such a war. The US messed up big time, and don't dare to blame it on someone else (like Iran, or whoever).

*prepares to masturbate*

Keep it up. Wouldn't want you to get anyone pregnant.;)

I'm a soldier at heart. I'm not now in active duty but was. I was called up for war and went and did my duty. Do people die? Yes they do. Why did these people die for? Basically to remove a tumor from Kuwait. Some times death is unavoidable. In fact we all die. Some die in car wrecks and some die from a 150mm smooth bore gun. I have resigned to that fact.
Yea and there are tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis that didn't need to die or suffer terrible injuries just so that Saddam could be brought to "justice". What has the US accomplished in Iraq? Record numbers are dying and you think that the death of one man is going to make it miraclously better?

Except that:

US denies Saddam handed to Iraq

link?

The fucking US opened Iraq for all kinds of people who hoped to gain by this war. The US is simply incompetent to successfully start, lead, and end such a war. The US messed up big time, and don't dare to blame it on someone else (like Iran, or whoever).

Don't agree with what your saying. However I would make someone else's nation a battlefield if I had to choose between mine and theres.

Have you ever been in the military? You sound like you haven't and everything you are saying is not only doggy poop but highly insulting to people serving in the US military.people serving in the US military? like Lynndie England?

Unlike some of you out there who think the death penalty is inappropriate, I believe it is a just ruling for Hussein. He's killed thousands of innocent people and persecuted christians for really no reason at all. He's an evil man and he's gonna get what he deserves. A hanging seems a little less than what I thought they'd give him considering what he's put us as Americans and his own people through.

rarely watch TV anymore and certainly not to take "satisfaction" in another human beings death. You are just perverse and in a sense, no better then the people you claim to be sadistic monsters.

Jeez, give the guy a break. Y'all are misinterpreting this. He had to go suffer in the desert and risk his life because of this guy. I'm not saying its morally correct to enjoy another being's death, but it's all right to be satisfied that justice has been done. I personnally think he should not die, but do his 25 years, work to restore the Kurdish swamps, and pay for what he did. Just getting rid of him makes nothing better.

Yea and there are tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis that didn't need to die or suffer terrible injuries just so that Saddam could be brought to "justice". What has the US accomplished in Iraq? Record numbers are dying and you think that the death of one man is going to make it miraclously better?

No more than were dying under Saddams brutal evil demonic regime.

Jeez, give the guy a break. Y'all are misinterpreting this. He had to go suffer in the desert and risk his life because of this guy. I'm not saying its morally correct to enjoy another being's death, but it's all right to be satisfied that justice has been done.


I full heartedly agree with you.

Free Saddam!

I insist this become part of MOBRAs manifesto.

No more than were dying under Saddams brutal evil demonic regime.

Well then it's ok :rolleyes:

Im curious to you and the rest that are crying bloodlust and sick. Do you watch TV at all?

Nope. And even if I did, it has absolutely no relevance on this subject. You are aiming for a tu quoque (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque) fallacy, which is a way of trying to dodge the fact that you do indeed get pleasure out of watching another human die. This qualifies as sick and bloodthirsty.

Frankly, I don't understand how you can admit it, but then try to make like it's healthy behaviour. That's intellectual dishonesty and cowardice. Makes me think like you actually feel guilty over this. And of course you should. There's someone else I know of who got pleasure in other people's deaths. Know who? Saddam Hussein!

I know you'll probably just ignore this post. So I'll just leave you with a nice quote to think about when you wipe yourself off.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster."

Yea and there are tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis that didn't need to die or suffer terrible injuries just so that Saddam could be brought to "justice". What has the US accomplished in Iraq? Record numbers are dying and you think that the death of one man is going to make it miraclously better?


Is it going to make it better? We don't know. Is it better that he is frying in hell? Yeah I would think so. Can you tell the future? I can't but would like to. Look we can agree on one thing. To many civilians have died in Iraq. Now I am going to disagree with you most likely on why those civilians died. I also will agree that the US has screwed up how things are done over there. However we need to fix our mess and one thing is to let the Iraqi's that want closure of Saddam to have it. I personally don't like to our soldiers and there civilians dying. I also don't like the economic damage it has done to the US currency and the defecit.

Don't agree with what your saying. However I would make someone else's nation a battlefield if I had to choose between mine and theres.The word is theirs. And I couldn't care less what you would do. The US set out to satisfy the personal revenge agenda of their demented president, without any plans how to handle the war on the ground. You had no plans at all to "liberate" the Iraqis, but only to boost the US national ego.

Oh, it'll be quite popular, with the barbarians that clearly live in Iraq.

Nope. And even if I did, it has absolutely no relevance on this subject. You are aiming for a tu quoque (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque) fallacy, which is a way of trying to dodge the fact that you do indeed get pleasure out of watching another human die. This qualifies as sick and bloodthirsty.

Frankly, I don't understand how you can admit it, but then try to make like it's healthy behaviour. That's intellectual dishonesty and cowardice. Makes me think like you actually feel guilty over this. And of course you should. There's someone else I know of who got pleasure in other people's deaths. Know who? Saddam Hussein!

I know you'll probably just ignore this post. So I'll just leave you with a nice quote to think about when you wipe yourself off.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster."

think your trying to make a point about me that is completely incorrect. However you don't know me and only can judge by what is written in a internet forum. Your right to write but it is a incorrect presumption. For me to want Saddam to die because of him being a monster does not translate into me being a monster.

In no way can you possibly compare me to being no better then Saddam. Your getting out there even by your standards.
How so? You have staunchly supported this war in Iraq. Tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands, depending on your source, have died as a result. You can't rationalize that in any way shape or form. You have tried in the past and failed, by saying better over there then in the US but the reality is that things are getting worse not better. You have defended the atrocities that have taken place in Iraq as a necessary evil. It is just evil.

link?

Oye. The link I posted earlier.

Here again:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6217725.stm

Not that it will make a difference, I'm just saying.

Im curious to you and the rest that are crying bloodlust and sick. Do you watch TV at all? Do you watch cops, any of the varying rescue shows? Any of the Medical shows or the news. You and the rest of us have watched people die over and over on tv. I'm not even talking about the movies that are put out there for entertainment. I'm talking real life death or injury of people on tv. Do you or anyone else turn the channel because its sick? I doubt you do most of the time. Thing is you and the rest are accusing me of being sick and bloodlusted whilst you guys watch it for entertainment on tv. Isn't a bit twisted? Think about it.
It could be an interesting question - you should start a thread on it.

Personally, I've never taken pleasure in watching another person die - and I don't think I've ever seen a real person die on the TV, no. And I don't particularly fancy seeing it either.
Most of the civilians killed in Iraq were killed by Al Qaeda in Iraq. Not by US forces and Saddam loyalists. I would venture 80%.
I doubt it. Civil war is a messy thing.
Unlike some of you out there who think the death penalty is inappropriate, I believe it is a just ruling for Hussein. He's killed thousands of innocent people and persecuted christians for really no reason at all. He's an evil man and he's gonna get what he deserves. A hanging seems a little less than what I thought they'd give him considering what he's put us as Americans and his own people through.

You do know that the Christians weren't particularly persecuted under Saddam, but is being driven out of the country now right?

The word is theirs. And I couldn't care less what you would do. The US set out to satisfy the personal revenge agenda of their demented president, without any plans how to handle the war on the ground. You had no plans at all to "liberate" the Iraqis, but only to boost the US national ego.

Well thanks for correcting my english spelling. I do have problems with the theres and theirs. Although I do write in French and Arabic. So sometimes I don't get everything correct for the grammar nuts.

Again the last part of your statement is a opinion. Really there is not a way to prove or disprove that point. I think it was to liberate however it wasn't done correctly. You think it was for revenge and national dick waving.

think your trying to make a point about me that is completely incorrect. However you don't know me and only can judge by what is written in a internet forum.

So, I am misinterpreting your statements? Say what you mean and mean what you say. Another good lesson to learn.

Your right to write but it is a incorrect presumption. For me to want Saddam to die because of him being a monster does not translate into me being a monster.

No, you wanting to watch him die, to gain pleasure from it, makes you rather perverse, sick and bloodthirsty. Sadistic, really, in a voyeuristic, vicarious way.

It's like how someone might want justice to be done to a child molester in prison. That's fine. But wanting to watch that child molester get ass-raped? Perverse and sick.

No more than were dying under Saddams brutal evil demonic regime.
Two wrongs don't make a right. When will the bloodshed end in Iraq? Saddam was captured many moons ago.

Well thanks for correcting my english spelling. I do have problems with the theres and theirs. Although I do write in French and Arabic. So sometimes I don't get everything correct for the grammar nuts.I never understood how folks could have problems with words like these, as the meanings of these words are not similar in any way.

Again the last part of your statement is a opinion. Really there is not a way to prove or disprove that point. I think it was to liberate however it wasn't done correctly. You think it was for revenge and national dick waving.Of course it was. This war was planned as soon as Bush became president, long before 9/11. He wanted to "finish the job", that his father could not finish.

I never understood how folks could have problems with words like these, as the meanings of these words are not similar in any way.

Jesus. If you want to get picky about grammar, this should be a semi-colon (not a comma).

Of course it was. This war was planned as soon as Bush became president, long before 9/11. He wanted to "finish the job", that his father could not finish.

I'm all for the death penalty, but I don't think it's the right choice here. He's just going to become a rallying point.

That said, we must make the best of these things, so I hope they put in zany sound effects. ZIP! There he goes! Boi-oing! He bounced! Waaa-waa-waa... He's gone.

*scene fads with the wavery notes of badly played taps*

No more than were dying under Saddams brutal evil demonic regime.

demonic? that's a bit of a stretch. I'm inclined to say there's no perversion known to demons that they didn't learn from watching humans.

Jeez, give the guy a break. Y'all are misinterpreting this. He had to go suffer in the desert and risk his life because of this guy. I'm not saying its morally correct to enjoy another being's death, but it's all right to be satisfied that justice has been done. I personnally think he should not die, but do his 25 years, work to restore the Kurdish swamps, and pay for what he did. Just getting rid of him makes nothing better.

justice has not been done. vegence has been done. they're completely seperate.

Have you ever been in the military? You sound like you haven't and everything you are saying is not only doggy poop but highly insulting to people serving in the US military.

I don't have to kill someone to discuss weither or not murder is wrong. I don't have to rape someone to discuss weither or not rape is wrong. I don't have to join the military to discuss weither or not war is wrong. I'm sure the majority of soldiers on every side of this conflict believe they are doing what's right. I'm not intentionally being insulting to members of the military. and I'm sure theyr'e not intentionally insulting God, but anyone who takes the life of another being who has been sustained in their every breath by deity is deliberately undoing the work of God. I'm sorry if you're offended, but if you're seeing me as rude, I'm seeing you as blasphemous - to say nothing about inefficient. even if a living being was just chattel to be thrown away or compared to a tumor or disease, this war wouldn't be effective in its stated aims.

Oh, it'll be quite popular, with the barbarians that clearly live in Iraq.

they're no different than people anywhere else. put westerners through what these people have endured, and I sincerely doubt they'd act any different. considering them barbarians and treating them like inferiors is what started this whole mess, back in colonial days.

You do know that the Christians weren't particularly persecuted under Saddam, but is being driven out of the country now right?

correct. christians have lived in iraq for well over 1800 years. it's only when americans, who claim to be "christians" come over and start butchering people that iraqi christians have been associated by their neighbors with this violence and disregard for life. which is exactly my point. people claiming to be christians and killing others are slandering christianity. people claiming to believe in God and destroying God's work are blaspheming their creator.

Jesus. If you want to get picky about grammar, this should be a semi-colon (not a comma).Which grammar rule applies here? See, like the esteemed fellow forum member Marrakech II I am not natively writing this language (although I had assumed that Marrakech II was indeed US American, given his exaggerated support for the US military).
And please leave Jesus out of this.

Nope. And even if I did, it has absolutely no relevance on this subject. You are aiming for a tu quoque (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque) fallacy, which is a way of trying to dodge the fact that you do indeed get pleasure out of watching another human die. This qualifies as sick and bloodthirsty.

Frankly, I don't understand how you can admit it, but then try to make like it's healthy behaviour. That's intellectual dishonesty and cowardice. Makes me think like you actually feel guilty over this. And of course you should. There's someone else I know of who got pleasure in other people's deaths. Know who? Saddam Hussein!

I know you'll probably just ignore this post. So I'll just leave you with a nice quote to think about when you wipe yourself off.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster."

I think its sad you have to get your kicks by flaming a guy who has served his country and is a devout muslim.

I think its sad you have to get your kicks by flaming a guy who has served his country and is a devout muslim.

I tihnk it's sad that he gets his kicks watching people die.

I think its sad you have to get your kicks by flaming a guy who has served his country and is a devout muslim.In what way has he served his country?

I tihnk it's sad that he gets his kicks watching people die.
Amen to that brother!!

I think its sad you have to get your kicks by flaming a guy who has served his country and is a devout muslim.

this has no bearing on the discussion - he's not flaming him, and "served his country" is a highly subjective term. "was used as a pawn by the leaders of his country" is closer to the truth. I'm sure he had the best of intentions and was very brave, but that doesn't mean what he did was actually a good thing.

I think its sad you have to get your kicks by flaming a guy who has served his country and is a devout muslim.

It's not a flame, and if you disagree, you can of course appeal to the moderators and have them rightfully punish me for being such a flaming flametard.

As for getting kicks out of this, I don't. Actually, I kinda don't like sadism. Hard to believe, I know, what with sadism being a cute and adorable thing!

Don't agree with what your saying. However I would make someone else's nation a battlefield if I had to choose between mine and theres.
Not only is such selfishness a disgusting disgrace, the US didn't even "have to choose" it.

Seriously, whatever happened to compassion and mercy?

I think its sad you have to get your kicks by flaming a guy who has served his country and is a devout muslim.
Neither should protect him from criticism. In fact being a soldier might even count against him depending on what mood I'm in.

12 and a half hours we'll be watching it on Youtube.

Can't wait.

demonic? that's a bit of a stretch. I'm inclined to say there's no perversion known to demons that they didn't learn from watching humans.



justice has not been done. vegence has been done. they're completely seperate.



I don't have to kill someone to discuss weither or not murder is wrong. I don't have to rape someone to discuss weither or not rape is wrong. I don't have to join the military to discuss weither or not war is wrong. I'm sure the majority of soldiers on every side of this conflict believe they are doing what's right. I'm not intentionally being insulting to members of the military. and I'm sure theyr'e not intentionally insulting God, but anyone who takes the life of another being who has been sustained in their every breath by deity is deliberately undoing the work of God. I'm sorry if you're offended, but if you're seeing me as rude, I'm seeing you as blasphemous - to say nothing about inefficient. even if a living being was just chattel to be thrown away or compared to a tumor or disease, this war wouldn't be effective in its stated aims.



they're no different than people anywhere else. put westerners through what these people have endured, and I sincerely doubt they'd act any different. considering them barbarians and treating them like inferiors is what started this whole mess, back in colonial days.



correct. christians have lived in iraq for well over 1800 years. it's only when americans, who claim to be "christians" come over and start butchering people that iraqi christians have been associated by their neighbors with this violence and disregard for life. which is exactly my point. people claiming to be christians and killing others are slandering christianity. people claiming to believe in God and destroying God's work are blaspheming their creator.

Eh. Most of the US military doesn't even attend church. There goes your "oh my God the evil Christian Crusaders are killing Saddam" argument.

In what way has he served his country?


By getting captured. That's IT!

By getting captured. That's IT!??

Which grammar rule applies here? See, like the esteemed fellow forum member Marrakech II I am not natively writing this language (although I had assumed that Marrakech II was indeed US American, given his exaggerated support for the US military).
And please leave Jesus out of this.

he's not an American? My bad. He sounded like one.

In what way has he served his country?

Again my bad. He sounded like a true and veted US military veteran. He could probably pass for one in the states. Get all kinds of benefits and stuff. LOL

correct. christians have lived in iraq for well over 1800 years. it's only when americans, who claim to be "christians" come over and start butchering people that iraqi christians have been associated by their neighbors with this violence and disregard for life. which is exactly my point. people claiming to be christians and killing others are slandering christianity. people claiming to believe in God and destroying God's work are blaspheming their creator.

Ummm....

A Christian can kill and not blaspheme. For example, Phinheas, when he slew the prostitute and the jewish man in the tent. God was EXTREMELY angered at them and after Phineas slew them he...chilled out a little I guess. It's in the OT.

The point you seem to be making is that one is a bad Christian if one kills. Not so.

??

Saddam hussein served his country best by getting captured by the Americans.

Ummm....

A Christian can kill and not blaspheme. For example, Phinheas, when he slew the prostitute and the jewish man in the tent. God was EXTREMELY angered at them and after Phineas slew them he...chilled out a little I guess. It's in the OT.

The point you seem to be making is that one is a bad Christian if one kills. Not so.

I would have thought breaking "Thou shalt not kill" was pretty simple. Unless there's some appendix to them at the bottom....

he's not an American? My bad. He sounded like one.Well, he implied that. At least that's how I interpreted it.

Saddam hussein served his country best by getting captured by the Americans.

We were talking about Marrakech, not Saddam.

Saddam hussein served his country best by getting captured by the Americans.This was about Marrakech II serving in the US military. And I never quite understood what part of the US needed to be defended by the banks of the Firat...

Well, he implied that. At least that's how I interpreted it.

you have telegram.

but there were cases in the old testament where and in the New Testament where God himself had people killed.

I would have thought breaking "Thou shalt not kill" was pretty simple. Unless there's some appendix to them at the bottom....

Fornication was a capital offense at the time, and the people as a whole participated in punishments. The entire community gathered to stone law breakers.

you have telegram.
but there were cases in the old testament where and in the New Testament where God himself had people killed.WTF? I don't care what cases there are in any Testament.

Fornication was a capital offense at the time, and the people as a whole participated in punishments. The entire community gathered to stone law breakers.

Have you a different set of '10 Commandments'? Is "Thou shalt not fuck" on them?

Because I'm sure "Thou shalt not kill" in on there, and it's (literally :D ) carved in stone.

We were talking about Marrakech, not Saddam.

Whooops.

hijack!

My apologies to Marrakech.

Have you a different set of '10 Commandments'? Is "Thou shalt not fuck" on them?

Because I'm sure "Thou shalt not kill" in on there, and it's (literally :D ) carved in stone.

Thou shalf not commit fornication is one of them I beleive.

Now, in marriage....well, my squirrely mongoose, you may proceed to be like the screen door in a hurricane.

BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG

Because I'm sure "Thou shalt not kill" in on there, and it's (literally :D ) carved in stone.No it is not. Read yourself (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=exodus%2034&version=31)

No it is not. Read yourself (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=exodus%2034&version=31)

*shrug*

"Thou shalt not kill." ~Exodus 20:13

HE IS DEAD! HE IS DEAD! THE SENTENCE HAS BEEN CARRIED OUT!

Unconfirmed.

:sniper:

:fluffle:

So he REALLY is dead!

*shrug*Please note that the stone tablets with the commandments of Exodus 20 were destroyed and neither were shown to the Israelites nor were recorded nor made into the Ark. The commandments of Exodus 34 however were what became the Covenant Law.
So much for that. :rolleyes:

BBC news 24 just reported its been done.

*shrug*

SLAP!

:D

They said he's been executed. I don't care either way, its not going to change anything.

It just showed up on their site.

They said he's been executed. I don't care either way, its not going to change anything.

I for one await reports of violence carried out by Saddam's supporters.

i34.photobucket.com/albums/d146/falconhurst/saddam20statue.jpg



Saddam has been USwned!

http://www.cnn.com

What the hell is CNN doing? Seems out of place - it's not like James Brown or G. Ford died.

Edit: Sorry, it's their pic of him on their front page.

Saddam Hussein 1937 ~ 2006.

i34.photobucket.com/albums/d146/falconhurst/saddam_2nd_all_file_10.jpg

http://www.cnn.com

What the hell is CNN doing? Seems out of place - it's not like James Brown or G. Ford died.

Edit: Sorry, it's their pic of him on their front page.

Saddam Hussein 1937 ~ 2006.

Good picture actually. The beard suited him.

Eh. Most of the US military doesn't even attend church. There goes your "oh my God the evil Christian Crusaders are killing Saddam" argument.

if only that had been my argument in the first place, I would be very sad. however little actual piety exists in the military, they are *perceived* by the iraqis as a christian nation - chances are they are all of majority christian heritage. my point is that their actions are harming those they are perceived to be associated with - I would not associate a member of the military with christians in general, I can assure you of that.

Ummm....

A Christian can kill and not blaspheme. For example, Phinheas, when he slew the prostitute and the jewish man in the tent. God was EXTREMELY angered at them and after Phineas slew them he...chilled out a little I guess. It's in the OT.

The point you seem to be making is that one is a bad Christian if one kills. Not so.

it's in the old testament, which means he was jewish, not christian. in the early centuries of the church, the debates were weither a soldier could even be allowed into church - weither they were to be excommunicated for life, or just for a period of 10 years. the most blatent and obvious commands of christ, which he gives again and again, are not to resist evil, not to take up violence, not to defend yourself, that all earthly powers are put in place by God.

for in him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers—all things have been created through him and for him.

christ has created the dominions of men, and appointed their rulers (in the context of roman dictatorship - they were brutal conquerors - it is obvious that tyrants are included in this)

God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power,

not only has christ created all, he sustains all things by a concious act of his will. nothing that exists, including the dominions, rulers, and powers mentioned in Colossians, exists without his express will. implicitly to fight against them is to fight against Christ - or at very least to assume you know better than God.

but I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you

it is absolutely impossible to follow this direct, unqualified, completely objective command and kill others. nowhere in this verse, chapter, or book is a circumstance in which we are not to love our enemies, and do good to them, given.

But I say to you who hear: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, and pray for those who spitefully use you. To him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer the other also.

retaliation is completely forbidden - total submission is commanded. pre-emptive striking is obviously entirely out of the question.

But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil. Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.

under the new covenant, there is no crime which is not completely forgiven by God. we are directly commanded to do exactly the same thing.

But I tell you not to resist an evil person.

again, there is no "but" here. there is no "unless". this is a blanket, all circumstances direct command never to resist evil.

Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

further incentive to do exactly what he's been commanding in the pervious verses.

Then He said to His disciples, “Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; nor about the body, what you will put on.

told not to even worry about finding basic necessities such as food and clothing. taken in context with the rest of what he's been saying, self defense is again discounted.

But Jesus said to him, “Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.

"Christ, in disarming Peter, disarmed every soldier" - Tertullian

Finally, all of you be of one mind, having compassion for one another; love as brothers, be tenderhearted, be courteous; not returning evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary blessing, knowing that you were called to this, that you may inherit a blessing. For


“ He who would love life
And see good days,
Let him refrain his tongue from evil,
And his lips from speaking deceit.
Let him turn away from evil and do good;
Let him seek peace and pursue it.

again! return not evil for evil, but seek peace and pursue it.

Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. Therefore

“ If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
If he is thirsty, give him a drink;
For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.”

Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

repay no evil for evil. do not avenge yourselves. vengeance belongs to god alone. to take vengeance yourself is to usurp the right of God.

See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all.

how many times can it say "do not return evil for evil"? "do not resist evil" "do good to those who hate you" before it becomes crystal clear that christians are strictly forbidden to harm anyone, no matter how evil and harmful they are being?

Woe to those who go down to Egypt for help,
And rely on horses,
Who trust in chariots because they are many,
And in horsemen because they are very strong,
But who do not look to the Holy One of Israel,
Nor seek the LORD!

alas for those who rely not on their God, but in the strength of arms! replace the archaic weaponry with "bombers" and "tanks" and this verse is blatently obvious.

For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
“ Who committed no sin,
Nor was deceit found in His mouth”;

who, when He was reviled, did not revile in return; when He suffered, He did not threaten, but committed Himself to Him who judges righteously

Christ himself did not judge, threaten, or fight back, but trusted his fate to God, who alone judges righteously. if Christ did not judge, how would we mortals presume to do so?

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places

we do not fight flesh and blood, but against spiritual hosts.

For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ

the weapons christians use are not physical weapons, but intellectual ones. I should add that nearly universally, the ancient church interpreted the entire old testament as METAPHORICAL. the burning bush, for example, was seen as a precursor and symbol for the perpetual virginity of Mary ("it burned but was not consumed") - literal belief in the old testament did not come until much, much later. most christians for many, many centuries after the birth of christ considered it allegorical, as they were well aware God liked to teach in parables. eastern orthodox theology and many elements of catholic theology, and some protestant thinkers as well, still use this method. biblical literalism is not the oldest, nor the most widely trusted method of exegesis. your old testament killing was likely understood metaphorically until it was convienient for someone to do otherwise.

And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father’s will. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Do not fear therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.

there is not a sparrow who dies without God willing it - and therefore we should not fear our own deaths, because they do not occur without God explicitly willing them. seeking to preserve our own lives is consequentially to resist God's authority.

Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members? You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and war. Yet you do not have because you do not ask. You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures. Adulterers and adulteresses!

war and conflict is a direct result of misplaced, sinful desires. it is not just, it is not divinely ordained, it is a result of sin, and comparable to the adultery for the soul which is married to God. God does not support war, it only occurs because people are fundamentally at war with themselves.

Now the works of the flesh are clear, which are these: evil desire, unclean things, wrong use of the senses, Worship of images, use of strange powers, hates, fighting, desire for what another has, angry feelings, attempts to get the better of others, divisions, false teachings, Envy, uncontrolled drinking and feasting, and such things: of which I give you word clearly, even as I did in the past, that they who do such things will have no part in the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, a quiet mind, kind acts, well-doing, faith, Gentle behavior, control over desires: against such there is no law.


fighting is, again, a result of sin.

Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

I still have more verses, and I haven't even started quoting theologians and saints yet.

it is abundantly, explicitly clear that christians are completely forbidden to make war, or even defend themselves in a simple fist-fight. anyone who says otherwise is saying so because he desires, for his own convienience, that the teachings of christ were different. anyone who claims a christian can simultaneously wage war, carry out his own conception of justice, and follow christ has either been mislead, or is lying.

that took a while because I had to gather up all the quotes, but no, christians cannot fight, wage war, or attempt justice like the hanging of this twisted man. justice belongs only to god. the scriptures and the body of christian tradition make it abundantly clear that violence of any sort is forbidden to the followers of christ.

Saddam to hang within 12 hours


That's fine. But why is Osama still alive?

*snip*About Colossians 1: Thrones, Dominations, Powers, Principalities (Rulers?) are ranks of angels, right?

if only that had been my argument in the first place, I would be very sad. however little actual piety exists in the military, they are *perceived* by the iraqis as a christian nation - chances are they are all of majority christian heritage. my point is that their actions are harming those they are perceived to be associated with -I would not associate a member of the military with christians in general, I can assure you of that.


it's in the old testament, which means he was jewish, not christian. in the early centuries of the church, the debates were weither a soldier could even be allowed into church - weither they were to be excommunicated for life, or just for a period of 10 years. the most blatent and obvious commands of christ, which he gives again and again, are not to resist evil, not to take up violence, not to defend yourself, that all earthly powers are put in place by God.

Christ came into contact with the Roman Soldiers many times during his ministries on earth. What did he tell them? Do evil to no man. Treat men fairly. Did Christ mean treat them with kiddie gloves and ask them in nice tones, don't use force, or roll over? No. He meant do not do evil. Using justifiable force to compel obediance with the law was not evil. Evil would be considered murdering a man. Killing his family. In other words, doing him wrong. Posing Iraqi prisoners into naked trianlges would fall under this


christ has created the dominions of men, and appointed their rulers (in the context of roman dictatorship - they were brutal conquerors - it is obvious that tyrants are included in this)

Christians are obligated to not obey laws which conflict with the bible.

not only has christ created all, he sustains all things by a concious act of his will. nothing that exists, including the dominions, rulers, and powers mentioned in Colossians, exists without his express will. implicitly to fight against them is to fight against Christ - or at very least to assume you know better than God.

But yet in the Old Testament King David, The man after God's own heart, destroyed and defeated empire after empire that came after his Kingdom. These same Kingdoms that God put in place! Also, he put his faith in God and God empowered his Army to defeat his enemys. The key here is that David DID have an Army. Did he turn from God and focus his entire self on his army as later did Josiah? No



it is absolutely impossible to follow this direct, unqualified, completely objective command and kill others. nowhere in this verse, chapter, or book is a circumstance in which we are not to love our enemies, and do good to them, given.



retaliation is completely forbidden - total submission is commanded. pre-emptive striking is obviously entirely out of the question.

Old Testament law allowed for defense of property and life. I beleive the verse went "ANd if a theif be found breaking in at night, and smitten so that he dies, there shall be no punishment. But if the sun comes up..."


under the new covenant, there is no crime which is not completely forgiven by God. we are directly commanded to do exactly the same thing.

There is no crime unforgivable by God. We are commanded to forgive all. I have forgiven those who killed my friend. But I also rest knowing that they who killed him are receiving their just rewards in hell right now.


again, there is no "but" here. there is no "unless". this is a blanket, all circumstances direct command never to resist evil.



further incentive to do exactly what he's been commanding in the pervious verses.



told not to even worry about finding basic necessities such as food and clothing. taken in context with the rest of what he's been saying, self defense is again discounted.

It is because God has promised them protection. Today if we told God "God, I am walking into the hood at 3am surrounded by wicked people. Cover me" that would be next to Blasphemy. God has given us ways of protecting ourselves. But do we rely completely on ourselves? No. WE trust in God. But we do not tempt him-we stay armed.



"Christ, in disarming Peter, disarmed every soldier" - Tertullian



again! return not evil for evil, but seek peace and pursue it.

Refer to the earlier point I made. Evil is not war-evil is doing wrong, whether it be an un just war, or just plain in-action. When we entered into WWII, were we seeking peace? Yes. WE fought the war, won it, and peace RETURNED.



repay no evil for evil. do not avenge yourselves. vengeance belongs to god alone. to take vengeance yourself is to usurp the right of God.

God commanded governments to administer Justice. Justice does sometimes demand the death penalty.

See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all.

It is good that those who take life-murderers-be put to death.

how many times can it say "do not return evil for evil"? "do not resist evil" "do good to those who hate you" before it becomes crystal clear that christians are strictly forbidden to harm anyone, no matter how evil and harmful they are being?


How many times does it need to be repeated? Defending ones' self is not evil! What IS evil is unprovoked violence. For example, if I walk down the street, and see a nice man walking down the other way, walk over, and murder him THAT IS EVIL. However, a burglar who breaks in to kidnap your children and is killed by you, that is NOT EVIL.

alas for those who rely not on their God, but in the strength of arms! replace the archaic weaponry with "bombers" and "tanks" and this verse is blatently obvious.

David, the man after God's own heart, had an army. Was he blessed by God? Yes. Did he throw off God and put his faith in his Army? NO! He continued to put his faith in God, and not in his army. He was victorious so long as he served God!


Christ himself did not judge, threaten, or fight back, but trusted his fate to God, who alone judges righteously. if Christ did not judge, how would we mortals presume to do so?




we do not fight flesh and blood, but against spiritual hosts.

True

the weapons christians use are not physical weapons, but intellectual ones. I should add that nearly universally, the ancient church interpreted the entire old testament as METAPHORICAL. the burning bush, for example, was seen as a precursor and symbol for the perpetual virginity of Mary ("it burned but was not consumed") - literal belief in the old testament did not come until much, much later. most christians for many, many centuries after the birth of christ considered it allegorical, as they were well aware God liked to teach in parables. eastern orthodox theology and many elements of catholic theology, and some protestant thinkers as well, still use this method. biblical literalism is not the oldest, nor the most widely trusted method of exegesis. your old testament killing was likely understood metaphorically until it was convienient for someone to do otherwise.



there is not a sparrow who dies without God willing it - and therefore we should not fear our own deaths, because they do not occur without God explicitly willing them. seeking to preserve our own lives is consequentially to resist God's authority.

When God

war and conflict is a direct result of misplaced, sinful desires. it is not just, it is not divinely ordained, it is a result of sin, and comparable to the adultery for the soul which is married to God. God does not support war, it only occurs because people are fundamentally at war with themselves.

War is both good and bad. Unjust war is evil. However, War is also good. it is neither the panacea to every ailment nor the vortex of evil you think it is.


fighting is, again, a result of sin.



I still have more verses, and I haven't even started quoting theologians and saints yet.

it is abundantly, explicitly clear that christians are completely forbidden to make war, or even defend themselves in a simple fist-fight. anyone who says otherwise is saying so because he desires, for his own convienience, that the teachings of christ were different. anyone who claims a christian can simultaneously wage war, carry out his own conception of justice, and follow christ has either been mislead, or is lying.

It is not explicitly clear. What did Christ himself preach to the Roman Soldiers he met? Do evil to no man (explained in first chapter) Be honest, loyal, etc.

that took a while because I had to gather up all the quotes, but no, christians cannot fight, wage war, or attempt justice like the hanging of this twisted man. justice belongs only to god. the scriptures and the body of christian tradition make it abundantly clear that violence of any sort is forbidden to the followers of christ.

It is justice. God gave Governments the power of life and death because governments are in place because GOD put them there. He has delegated power to Governments. And as the ruling body of Iraq, the IRaqi Government tried Saddam and found him guilty of genocide. He was sentenced to death, ushering in a new era for Iraq. Post Saddam.

I insist this become part of MOBRAs manifesto.
I insist that you join MOBRA!