NationStates Jolt Archive

lol...I would have thought that this would have been settled by now..

The UK treasury will pay the last of 50 instalments since 1950 amounting to $83.25 million to the US and $22.7 million to Canada. Upon the final payments, the UK will have paid back a total of $7.5 billion to the US and $2 billion to Canada. In 1945, the US had loaned Britain $4.33 billion while Canada loaned $1.19 billion in 1946, at 2 per cent annual interest to help the country repair its war-damaged economy.

some interesting snippets in the link below..

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8209-2517489,00.html
Britain pays 1945 war debt
David Smith
THE government will this week close a chapter in Britain’s wartime history by completing the repayment of a loan taken out with America more than 60 years ago, just after the second world war.

Treasury officials said the repayment of the US war loan taken out under a 1945 agreement would be completed by December 31.

The loan dates back to September 1945. From 1941, Britain and other allied nations had received large quantities of equipment and supplies under Franklin Roosevelt’s Lend-Lease programme.

Britain received about $30 billion of goods — just over £7 billion at the prevailing exchange rate — during the war years, in effect gifts from America. But in September 1945 the US abruptly announced an end to the Lend-Lease programme, despite the need for large-scale reconstruction and with Britain on its knees economically.

Goods already in Britain or in transit were sold to the UK government at heavily discounted prices — one-tenth of their value — the amount paid being in the form of a loan.

The amount, together with a line of credit, was $4.34 billion with a 2% interest rate, originally intended to be paid back over 50 years beginning in 1950.

Some critics, including Lord Keynes, saw the loan as a means used by America to subjugate Britain after the war.

As it was, keeping up the payments was often difficult. There were six years when Britain deferred payment as a result of economic crises and pressure on the official reserves. But this week’s £43m remittance will pay it off.

Many war loans are never repaid.

Britain borrowed money from America during the first world war but never fully settled the debt. This was because President Herbert Hoover declared a debt moratorium during the global financial crisis of 1931.

At the time of the moratorium, Britain was owed more in war debt by other countries than it owed to America.

The friendly thing to do would be to drop the debt, but they could never do that. Oh no.

Now it's sort its' credit rating Britain can go get that washer-dryer it's had its' heart set on from Comet.

The friendly thing to do would be to drop the debt, but they could never do that. Oh no.

Why don't you take out a mortgage and then ask your bank to do the friendly thing?

lol...I would have thought that this would have been settled by now..

At only 2% interest, it was much cheaper to make payments than it was to pay it off early.

To be fair these payments are a drop in the ocean

It's funny, because now the US owes the UK money.

Anyway, I guess that was the last of the savings. The US is now officially broke.

Why don't you take out a mortgage and then ask your bank to do the friendly thing?

If I spent six years helping the bank defeat fascism I certainly would.

The friendly thing to do would be to drop the debt, but they could never do that. Oh no.

no, the Friendly thing to do is let the payee pay back when they can as they can. no pressure, no demands. and be gracious if and when something happens to delay the repayment.

The friendly thing to do would be to drop the debt, but they could never do that. Oh no.

We paid for your war effort. You wanted us to pay for your post war reconstruction too??? :eek: Don't be so greedy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4757181.stm

"In a nutshell, everything we got from America in World War II was free," says economic historian Professor Mark Harrison, of Warwick University.

"The loan was really to help Britain through the consequences of post-war adjustment, rather than the war itself. This position was different from World War I, where money was lent for the war effort itself."

Britain had spent a great deal of money at the beginning of the war, under the US cash-and-carry scheme, which saw straight payments for materiel. There was also trading of territory for equipment on terms that have attracted much criticism in the years since. By 1941, Britain was in a parlous financial state and Lend-Lease was eventually introduced.

The post-war loan was part-driven by the Americans' termination of the scheme. Under the programme, the US had effectively donated equipment for the war effort, but anything left over in Britain at the end of hostilities and still needed would have to be paid for.

But the price would please a bargain hunter - the US only wanted one-tenth of the production cost of the equipment and would lend the money to pay for it.

As a result, the UK took a loan for $586m (about £145m at 1945 exchange rates), and a further $3,750m line of credit (about £930m at 1945 exchange rates). The loan was to be paid off in 50 annual repayments starting in 1950, although there were six years when payment was deferred because of economic or political crises.

I always wondered why are politicians looked like they had been dragged of the street by a mafia like organization to have there shins broken…

…and it looks like we already spent the extra cash (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6215795.stm)

If I spent six years helping the bank defeat fascism I certainly would.

1) Britain was being bombed by the nazis, not the US. We helped you out.

2) Our convoys made sure you got fuel for domestic use as well as the war effort. Without the US you would have frozen in the dark.

It's not like we were being stingy. We could have just as easily remained "neutral" and sold goods and raw materials to the Nazis like the Swedes did.

It's not like we were being stingy. We could have just as easily remained "neutral" and sold goods and raw materials to the Nazis like the Swedes did.

Ugh don't remind me!

1) Britain was being bombed by the nazis, not the US. We helped you out.

How deliciously short sighted.

2) Our convoys made sure you got fuel for domestic use as well as the war effort. Without the US you would have frozen in the dark.

It's not like we were being stingy.

Without the US we would have soldiered on for about 18 months more before falling to the Germans. The US would have then beeen crushed economically by the Axis powers before its ntuarlly right wing politics went the way of Nazi Germany anyway. After all you we treating your blacks in pretty much the same way as them then anyway, it wouldn't have been that much of a leap for you.

It's not like we were being stingy.

I beg to differ.

Anyway, start saving. The US owes the UK a hell of a lot more.

1) Britain was being bombed by the nazis, not the US. We helped you out.

2) Our convoys made sure you got fuel for domestic use as well as the war effort. Without the US you would have frozen in the dark.

It's not like we were being stingy. We could have just as easily remained "neutral" and sold goods and raw materials to the Nazis like the Swedes did.Don't exaggerate.

If I am not mistaken, The UK has been the only country that has been making payments to the US since the war. I may be wrong, but part of the Marshall Plan after WWII was to forgive any debts, so European nations could rebuild their countries and their economies. If World War II has shown us here in the US about the UK, it is that they have been our closest and staunchest ally since the war. Both the UK and the US paid a very heavy price for that war, and I am talking about the lives of our countrymen.

To all of you in the UK from this US citizen:
Your country stood by us since the war.
You stood by us, and helped us during the Berlin Blockade.
You stood by us, and helped us during the Korean War.
You stood by us, and helped us face the Warsaw Pact with NATO.
You stood by us during the 1980's in our attacks agains terrorists in Lybia.
You stood by us, and sent your sons and daughters to help liberate Kuwait.
And lately, you are standing with us, and so are your sons and daughters helping us with the current war on terrorism.

I know, we make some jokes about the UK still being pissed off at us about that little affray in 1776, that how could those simpleton ruffian colonials kicked you out of North America....:)

Oh sure, a lot of other countries will claim to be our friends and allies, but only the UK has put it on the line like no one else.

UK, thanks for being the close friend and ally that you are.

Vic Cruz-Saez
North Carolina, USA

How deliciously short sighted.


Yet basicly true.


Without the US we would have soldiered on for about 18 months more before falling to the Germans.


So it is true then?


The US would have then beeen crushed economically by the Axis powers


Unlikely


before its ntuarlly right wing politics went the way of Nazi Germany anyway. After all you we treating your blacks in pretty much the same way as them then anyway, it wouldn't have been that much of a leap for you.

No, the USA did in now way support the sort of genocide that Hitler supported at all, not even close. There is no way they would ever submit to the germans.

How deliciously short sighted.



Without the US we would have soldiered on for about 18 months more before falling to the Germans. The US would have then beeen crushed economically by the Axis powers before its ntuarlly right wing politics went the way of Nazi Germany anyway. After all you we treating your blacks in pretty much the same way as them then anyway, it wouldn't have been that much of a leap for you.

Crushed economically by the Axis powers? Really? Then the many folks on NS who say that the US involvement in the war wasn't a big deal because the Soviets would have won it anyway were full of shit?

Yet basicly true.



So it is true then?



Unlikely



No, the USA did in now way support the sort of genocide that Hitler supported at all, not even close. There is no way they would ever submit to the germans.

Yes it was true, and still short sighted. The two are not mutually exclusive you know.

As for getting battered economically, who pray tell would the US have traded with assuming that the whole of Europe had fallen to the Nazi regime?

I beg to differ.

Anyway, start saving. The US owes the UK a hell of a lot more.

Really? Does that take into account what Britain still owes the US for WWI. 80+ years of interest can really add up. ;)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4757181.stm

In 1934, Britain owed the US $4.4bn of World War I debt (about £866m at 1934 exchange rates). Adjusted by the Retail Price Index, a typical measure of inflation, £866m would equate to £40bn now, and if adjusted by the growth of GDP, to about £225bn.

These loans remain in limbo. The UK Government's position is this: "Neither the debt owed to the United States by the UK nor the larger debts owed by other countries to the UK have been serviced since 1934, nor have they been written off."

So in a time when debt relief for Third World nations is recurrently in the news, the UK still has a slew of unresolved loans from a war that finished 88 years ago.

Crushed economically by the Axis powers? Really? Then the many folks on NS who say that the US involvement in the war wasn't a big deal because the Soviets would have won it anyway were full of shit?

Yes. None of the Allied powers could have won idividually.

Let's be perfectly fair here. Britain has now paid all of it's war debts to the USA. The USA has paid all of it's war debts to Australia (the only country the US actually owed money to at the end of WWII). To my knowledge, this is the last payment anyone has to make about that war.

Economically, this is the end of WWII. This final, symbolic payment marks the closing of an entire chapter of human history.

"Duuude, I totally sent a check in 1965! You mean it never came? Aw, bummer, I'm really short this month, I'll get you later, I promise!"

About time, ya damn deadbeats! :D

I think the Brits intended to repay the debt as a show of good faith.

Yes it was true, and still short sighted. The two are not mutually exclusive you know.

As for getting battered economically, who pray tell would the US have traded with assuming that the whole of Europe had fallen to the Nazi regime?

There are other countires they could have traded with, though I admit it wouldn't provide a great deal of imports. You can still trade without submitting to a regime. I am sure the US would have worked somehting out, anyway without going into to much detail, I am pretty sure the USA could survive without trade anyway.

There are other countires they could have traded with, though I admit it wouldn't provide a great deal of imports. You can still trade without submitting to a regime. I am sure the US would have worked somehting out, anyway without going into to much detail, I am pretty sure the USA could survive without trade anyway.

Yeah, look at how well the countries upon whom we place trade restrictions do. The quality of life in North Korea is really something to be aimed for.

Yeah, look at how well the countries upon whom we place trade restrictions do. The quality of life in North Korea is really something to be aimed for.

I am sure that if NK were not so hidiously corrupt, they would have distributed their wealth long ago. Though lack of trade would have an effect, corrupt governments would have had a much larger effect.

As for getting battered economically, who pray tell would the US have traded with assuming that the whole of Europe had fallen to the Nazi regime?

Well, the Nazis, presumably. Don't fool yourself.

Well, the Nazis, presumably. Don't fool yourself.

Oh I don't doubt that the US govt. would have happily traded with the Nazis. I just have the feeling that Germany would have been a lot happier to let the US run itself into a poor economic state. A state somewhat akin to that in exsistance in Germany circa 1933 perhaps.

Really? Does that take into account what Britain still owes the US for WWI. 80+ years of interest can really add up. ;)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4757181.stm

In 1934, Britain owed the US $4.4bn of World War I debt (about £866m at 1934 exchange rates). Adjusted by the Retail Price Index, a typical measure of inflation, £866m would equate to £40bn now, and if adjusted by the growth of GDP, to about £225bn.

These loans remain in limbo. The UK Government's position is this: "Neither the debt owed to the United States by the UK nor the larger debts owed by other countries to the UK have been serviced since 1934, nor have they been written off."

So in a time when debt relief for Third World nations is recurrently in the news, the UK still has a slew of unresolved loans from a war that finished 88 years ago.


Yah, you still owe the UK more than 40 billion sterling.

Anyway, that debt was suspended contingent upon the UK not collecting even greater debts from other countries. We could just sign that paper over to you.

Now start counting those pennies. No big screen TVs for you.

Yah, you still owe the UK more than 40 billion sterling.

Anyway, that debt was suspended contingent upon the UK not collecting even greater debts from other countries. We could just sign that paper over to you.

Now start counting those pennies. No big screen TVs for you.

Why does the US owe us over $40 Bn?

Lol, so little money.

My country, Brazil, owns like 300 billion to the US, Britain, France, Germany, and probabily even your mother.

Why does the US owe us over $40 Bn?

Because for the past three years or so, the UK has been propping up the dollar. (Because the japanese stopped). The bank of England has something like 210 billion dollars worth of US government debt. British overseas protectorates (channel Isles and whatnot) hold about another 50 billion.

The UK government, in effect, owns almost as much US government debt as the Chinese.

Because for the past three years or so, the UK has been propping up the dollar. (Because the japanese stopped). The bank of England has something like 210 billion dollars worth of US government debt. British overseas protectorates (channel Isles and whatnot) hold about another 50 billion.

The UK government, in effect, owns almost as much US government debt as the Chinese.

We should totally foreclose. It might have taken 230 years but we'd finally have our land back. :D

We should totally foreclose. It might have taken 230 years but we'd finally have our land back. :D

Well, no. Because then I'd have to pay UK taxes :mad:.

But it's not just government debt. (That's not even the main problem). It's the mammoth amount of external debt that the US has run up in general. I can see the day that the major holder (UK, Japan, China, rest of the EU), have to have a meeting and put them on some kind of 'plan'.

Well, no. Because then I'd have to pay UK taxes :mad:.

But it's not just government debt. (That's not even the main problem). It's the mammoth amount of external debt that the US has run up in general. I can see the day that the major holder (UK, Japan, China, rest of the EU), have to have a meeting and put them on some kind of 'plan'.

The US economy will sort itself out, it's too big not to be able to. All it needs is some sensible leadership and a break from its' overseas wars.

no, the Friendly thing to do is let the payee pay back when they can as they can. no pressure, no demands. and be gracious if and when something happens to delay the repayment.

The payee, in this case has spent six years fighting the Nazis (longer than you) as your close ally, the damage they have sustained could have been helped had you acted with the interests of others in mind.

The US economy will sort itself out, it's too big not to be able to. All it needs is some sensible leadership and a break from its' overseas wars.

These things always cycle through. The US still has to pay the money back though.

There is going to be a recession. Everyone knows that.

1) Britain was being bombed by the nazis, not the US. We helped you out.

2) Our convoys made sure you got fuel for domestic use as well as the war effort. Without the US you would have frozen in the dark.

It's not like we were being stingy. We could have just as easily remained "neutral" and sold goods and raw materials to the Nazis like the Swedes did.

The US was concerned only with its own interests.

The payee, in this case has spent six years fighting the Nazis (longer than you) as your close ally, the damage they have sustained could have been helped had you acted with the interests of others in mind.
so in your mind, it's "well we spent more time fighting the Nazi thus we shouldn't have to pay back the money we (Britan) got from the US that was used to rebuild our cities after the war!"

How come no one is calling the Canadians stingy too?

How come no one is calling the Canadians stingy too?

Because it goes without saying.

The US was concerned only with its own interests.

:eek:

Just like everybody else.

:rolleyes:

So the money the US didn't even have to loan anyone should just be forgotten? The kind thing to do with a debt is to make sure it is not an overburden to pay back. It is neither kind nor honorable to simply forget a debt, as it insults the honor of the debtor.

Because for the past three years or so, the UK has been propping up the dollar. (Because the japanese stopped). The bank of England has something like 210 billion dollars worth of US government debt. British overseas protectorates (channel Isles and whatnot) hold about another 50 billion.

The UK government, in effect, owns almost as much US government debt as the Chinese.

Why hasn't the Chancellor had to announce that in one of his budgets? If this is taxpayers' money, I would have thought this would be big news...that's not too far off the amounts we spend on health, education and all that kind of thing.

I can't believe Canada was capable of loaning that kind of money at that time.

:eek:

Just like everybody else.

:rolleyes:

Indeed, despite some people waxing lyrical of how good of the USA it was to join WWII. They went in to protect their investment, don't have any problem with that, but it was hardly out of the goodness of their hearts.

Also, iirc, one of the post-war loans came with conditions, namely boosting defence spending and getting involved in Korea, which was unsustainable and brought down the labour gov't.

The friendly thing to do would be to drop the debt, but they could never do that. Oh no.

Only if the world drops the US debt...

Lol!

Germany scored free rebuilding aid. Cop that!

Holy cow.

I thought this would have been settled a while back, but hey! Thanks for the money!

Note to self: FInd out who owes me money.

Indeed, despite some people waxing lyrical of how good of the USA it was to join WWII. They went in to protect their investment, don't have any problem with that, but it was hardly out of the goodness of their hearts.

Also, iirc, one of the post-war loans came with conditions, namely boosting defence spending and getting involved in Korea, which was unsustainable and brought down the labour gov't.

That's why we hit up britian for money to rebuild pearl harbor, which was destroyed by, ahem, the Japanese.