NationStates Jolt Archive

Don't you hate how being honest never really pays? I've always tried to be honest---honest!---and yet I've mostly found myself punished for it while those who lie, cheat, and steal get away with it. The whole honesty issue is so mired in hypocrisy that I don't know whether to laugh hysterically like some midget whose ingested too many pixie sticks or cry like an Asian who got 790 on their Math SAT II.

Think about it. As a society, we tell people to be honest, right? "Crime doesn't pay" says the public service announcement, "thou shalt not lie" quoth the Bible, and "tell me the truth, punk" command our parents. Since we were children, we've been imbued with the idea that honesty is "the best policy."

Yet...

I smell a rat, to add to my already overused list of cliche euphimisms. Our parents tell us not to lie, yet at the same time we'll catch hell if we dare to admit that Aunt Barbara's jeans do indeed make her butt look fat, because, by fucking golly, she is fat. The Bible tells us not to lie on pain of eternal damnation, yet God Himself lies almost constantly to His people (don't believe me? Check out the story of Jobe, or Samuel). And the government...

...yeah. 'nuff said, there.

It goes leaps and bounds beyond childhood, however. Why not enter the wonderful world of teenagers? Every girl will tell you that she wants an "honest" relationship---yet at the same time, admitting you like a girl is considered a cardinal sin in the world of dating. We've gone so far as to give a term to it---"playing hard to get", which, although it sounds innocent enough, just puts a nice spin on what is, at its core, a lie. The basic rule of High School relationships, for males, is that in order to obtain a girl...you must adamantly deny, to the very core of your goddam being, that you were, are, or ever could be interested in her. But we teenage boys aren't the only ones with lies afoot; how about our female counterparts, who won't be caught dead without makeup in public? Now, I'm not one to criticize a lady for adding a splash of flair to her appearance once in a while. But, and perhaps this just me, once it gets to the point where I have female friends who I have known for the majority of my life and have never seen without makeup, that it gets just a bit ridiculous. It's a mask, a permanent cover for your appearance, and, quite honestly, a lie.

Yes, that was a terrible pun, and I'd be a liar not to admit it.

Ah, let's move on further into our little web of lies. 'tis time for the oh so mature adults, the biggest liars of them all!

I would say that, on the adult front, the biggest lie of them all is the idea...that there are no lies. Basically, the theory goes that since our interpretations of reality differ based on the person, then reality itself is different for each and every individual. Since reality is therefore controlled by everyone one of us, we cannot be capable of lying...right?

WRONG.

First of all, go up to a starving Sudanese child whose parents have been murdered by Janjaweed militiamen and tell him it's all his fault for imagining such a screwed up reality for himself. Then, go to your parents and tell them that you didn't really total their car, and that it's all just their skewed perception.

We'll see how well that goes.

You want to know what I think? (Which, if you've read this far, you probably do) I think all of "truth through lies", The Things They Carried inspired bullshit was created solely for the purpose of letting people get away with lies. Because it's far easier to lie than tell the truth, after all, and if you just coat your lie in some nice sounding platitudes about using falsity to get to deeper truth, or, even more egregiously, claim that everything you say is true simply because you feeeeellll it's true, then you can get away with it.

Well, sorry to be the obstinate stick in the mud here, but Tim O'Brien can kiss my natural black behind. (Actually, O'Brien himself was fine because he admitted to crafting a work of fiction---it's his followers that I'm more worried about) Truth is truth, fact is fact, and reality is reality. The world ain't sunshine and rainbows, to quote my second favorite boxer, and instead of shoving your head so far up your ass that it comes out of your mouth far enough to literally earn you the title of "head up in the clouds", you're going to have to learn to deal with it.

Yes, I realize I'm being utterly vulgar and crass. But I live in a society where honesty is only encouraged on the surface, while lies are given the generous ol' "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" treatment. The worst part is that I'm as much a criminal as I am a victim; I lie almost compulsively, mostly without reason. I'll change time estimates by a minute just to make myself appear slightly less late, I'll up my GPA by a 0.1 just to appear less moronic (for the record, it is 4.0 CP Weighted and about 3.8 CP Unweighted, so smack me with a fish if I quote anything higher), and I'll tell my parents I'm going to buy a book as I munch on some Taco Bell. I never lie to my serious benefit---that would require the conscious decision to lie. But instead I lie by compulsion, where no thought is required.

Lying has become a reflex, like recoiling from a hot stove or bursting out into dance when music plays (that...is a reflex, right?). Why do I do it, then? Part of it, of course, is my own fault. I am fully capable of not lying, yet I do it anyway.

But part of it is indoctrination. From childhood to adolescence through adulthood, I've been bombarded with lies, lies, and---guess what---more lies! Our schools, our media, our government, even our parents all teach us to deceive and lie.

Perhaps I'm being too melodramatic, but I'm mad as hell, and I ain't gonna take it no more, so excuse my language, for it may be skewed by emotion. We live in a real world with real rules and real properties, not a fantasy make believe paradise where we can wish up any ridiculous fantasy. For God's sake, we, and when I say "we" I do not say it in the condescending "you all who are unenlightened" way, but in the "goddamit, I'm as guilty as all of you, if not more so" way, need to wake up and smell the coffee.

I want facts, not fiction.
I want "thou shalt not lie", not "If I Did It."
I want truth, not truthiness.

I am one of the few who are rather honest. Though not wholly; that simply would not work in this society. I am enough of a sneered at semi-outcast already. It helps not being particularly interested in socializing, avoiding useless, braindead small talk like the plague, (occasionally getting into such conversations by telling a couple of gutwrenchingly horrible puns, though. I find it very amusing; the worse, the better) and spending nearly all your freetime by yourself in front of your computer, though.

I don't care all that much about how nicely and "properly" I am seen as acting, as long as I am not pestered by idiots who find it funny to mock and spread their garbage about me. I am somewhat blunt, find it a chore to lie, and prefer to ommit rather than add whenever viable. I say much less than most, relatively little both on the net and (most notably) in real life. Most of what I say is either honest or in jest, very little being utruth meant to be taken seriously. Occasionally, though less often than I'd have found likely, I am seen as somewhat of an asshole. The few that truly know me, as well as appreciate my rather quirky personality, find me rather nice and dependable, though, appreciating my honesty.

Good luck with un-screwing-up yourself. (though most would see it as the opposite)

I hate lies, they cloud the situation. I am very pro-honesty and it's even to the point that I don't lie to my kids about anything, not even Santa.

If you get in trouble for telling the truth it's not the honesty that is at fault, it's because of either your actions or someone else's attitude and lying won't fix either of those.

I don't care. I lie if the situation calls for it, and don't take the moralistic line that "honesty's the best policy". Frankly, honesty is overrated, but useful in certain situations.

The jeans don't make her look fat, it's all the fat that does that.

I'm quite honest, mostly because I'm a terrible liar. I have a reputation for being blunt with people, which is fun.

I lie if the situation calls for it, and don't take the moralistic line that "honesty's the best policy". Frankly, honesty is overrated, but useful in certain situations.I am not honest for moral reasons. Being honest unless you have a good reason not to, is however a basic principle I follow. Communication is not particularly meaningful if the information transmitted is garbage. A moron looking for flattery being offended because of honesty is not a good reason to lie, unless it would have consequences worth avoiding. If you are sincere, truthful and correct, and someone gets offended by what you say, it is entirely the fault of the moron in question. And if you are somewhat like me and have self-respect, you don't jump around, twisting your own words and compromising your principles, just to satisfy mindless vanity.

Ah, let's move on further into our little web of lies. 'tis time for the oh so mature adults, the biggest liars of them all!

I would say that, on the adult front, the biggest lie of them all is the idea...that there are no lies. Basically, the theory goes that since our interpretations of reality differ based on the person, then reality itself is different for each and every individual. Since reality is therefore controlled by everyone one of us, we cannot be capable of lying...right?

WRONG.

First of all, go up to a starving Sudanese child whose parents have been murdered by Janjaweed militiamen and tell him it's all his fault for imagining such a screwed up reality for himself. Then, go to your parents and tell them that you didn't really total their car, and that it's all just their skewed perception.

We'll see how well that goes.



Ummm, frankly I have never once heard this notion you espouse that adults believe that there are no lies. Now, telling your sudanese child that there is no help for them is not a lie, it is merely a cruel reality that people are unwilling to help. It does not lie about the situation at all as noone tells them that it is their fault to be born to that situation. At least noone that I have heard.

Now, telling your parents that there car is not totalled, on the other hand, IS dishonest.

And, to a certain segment of the population by the way, your aunt's butt looks terrific in her jeans. I can't claim to be one of those people, but they certainly do exist.

Don't you hate how being honest never really pays? I've always tried to be honest---honest!---and yet I've mostly found myself punished for it while those who lie, cheat, and steal get away with it.

Beign honest is basically saying you'e willign to catch any flak. The liars and cheaters get away with it because they succeeded.

I'm a pretty honest person too....

I am one of the few who are rather honest. Though not wholly; that simply would not work in this society. I am enough of a sneered at semi-outcast already. It helps not being particularly interested in socializing, avoiding useless, braindead small talk like the plague, (occasionally getting into such conversations by telling a couple of gutwrenchingly horrible puns, though. I find it very amusing; the worse, the better) and spending nearly all your freetime by yourself in front of your computer, though.

I don't care all that much about how nicely and "properly" I am seen as acting, as long as I am not pestered by idiots who find it funny to mock and spread their garbage about me. I am somewhat blunt, find it a chore to lie, and prefer to ommit rather than add whenever viable. I say much less than most, relatively little both on the net and (most notably) in real life. Most of what I say is either honest or in jest, very little being utruth meant to be taken seriously. Occasionally, though less often than I'd have found likely, I am seen as somewhat of an asshole. The few that truly know me, as well as appreciate my rather quirky personality, find me rather nice and dependable, though, appreciating my honesty.

Good luck with un-screwing-up yourself. (though most would see it as the opposite)
You took those words from my mouth. I'm an outcast (by choice) for merely being too honest. I'm often honest to the point of being blunt, and people just don't like that. I'm not saying that I don't lie, but I often find that it's more amusing to shove the truth in somebody's face, because generally people don't like me anyway, so I have nothing to lose. Because many people are so wrapped up in lies that the treal ruth is sharp as a blade and plain insulting. If the situation calls for sugar coating words (for example you can't be that blunt or honest to a child, you have no idea how it might mess with their head) I'll try to avoid the question, or only tell them the nice parts; if the person persists for a response then I'll have no choice but to be honest.

I'm quite sick of lying as well, the problem being that I can normally put two and two together and find inconsistensies in some story or other. And the possibility of asking the person in some way or other about their lie, to see if they'll spin even more webs, is often very tempting.

My friends know that I'm honest, and in that sense if they want somebody to tell it to them straight then they'll come to me. Also, if I say that I won't tell anybody a secret I do not tell. If they need to get something off your chest then they can trust me, if I say I will, to keep my mouth shut.

Of course, I can get away with it because I don't work. If ever I get a job dealing with the public then unless I want to give a bad name for myself, then I might have to be a little nicer in the way that I say things. I dread the day when that happens to me, I really do.

I can't just fake-lie and pretend to be amused by people or things that don't amuse me. I can't just pretend I like people when I would love to choke them - I can be civil, yes, but the first thing I want to do is get the hell away from them. People like that get the minimum from me.

As for liars...well, let's just say this. Some people are born with the ability to lie. I had to learn it. My wife lies constantly to people to get out of things; she once told a cop who pulled her over for speeding that she was in a hurry because my mother was sick and we had to get to her. The cop gave her a warning. The best I can usually do is "I didn't know that was the law" and that wouldn't work for speeding, even if it seems to work for most other things.

I get out of plans by claiming I am sick (or my wife's sick, or her mother's sick, or the dog's sick) constantly. My folks tried to plan out my down-time after my honeymoon, even insisting on breakfast after we got off the plane (a red-eye that got in at 6 AM) despite the fact that we had eaten and wanted to sleep, not eat. They wouldn't take no for an answer, so I had to fake sickness.

Lying can be a useful tool. However, it's like a pocket knife - using it as a tool can be a very good thing, but if you use it as a weapon, things can turn ugly and backfire.

Personally, I think that one of the greatest virtues that a person can have is honesty, and ach, it burns my ass when I see someone "get away with murder".

But I'm more surprised when I see people who lie so easily for their own benefit. I'm not talking about little white lies (which everyone is guilty of every once and a while), I'm talking about more serious matters like relationships and crime.

I wonder, did we just invent to concept of a conscience?

there was an article about lying in the scientific american mind sometime last year. it turns out that we do an astonishing amount of lying. most of it for no good reason at all.

it also turns out that even chimpanzees lie.

its kind of what we DO. we even lie to ourselves about how honest we are.

i despise not being able to trust that what someone tells me is true. i have no respect for people who lie about everything.