NationStates Jolt Archive

This is interesting:
December 23, 2006
This New Year's Eve, at midnight on the dot, hundreds of millions of pages of U.S. government secrets will be revealed. Or at least they'll no longer be official secrets -- it may actually take months or more for the National Archives and Records Administration to make those pages available for public consumption. The NARA is already dealing with a multi-million page backlog.
But in theory if not in immediate practice, what was set in motion by the Clinton administration in 1995 is coming to fruition. Executive Order 12958 declared that in 2000, every classified document 25 years of age or older would be automatically declassified unless the classifying agency had already sought and received that document's exemption (anything that could cause an "identifiable" risk to national security, would violate a person's privacy or involves more than one agency is exempt). After two three-year extensions granted by the Bush administration in response to cries from the CIA, FBI, NSA and other agencies that they didn't have the manpower to review all of their papers in time, the final deadline has arrived. And President Bush is enforcing it.

Scholars of history, conspiracy theorists and freedom-of-information activists everywhere are doing a happy dance like none you've ever seen. We're talking about a treasure trove of historical documents, secrets that have been kept for decades, suddenly stripped of its Top Secret, Secret or Confidential status. According to Michigan State University, the trove can include letters, telegrams, background checks, reports from war zones and cabinet-level meeting minutes, for a start.

Any government agency that has classified documents is involved in the declassification process. Organizations that deal in secrets, like the FBI, CIA, NSA and Department of Defense are releasing the largest volumes of paper: The FBI alone will be declassifying 270 million pages. The NSA is declassifying at least 35 million.

So what can we expect to learn when these pages become accessible to the public? We're not talking about small secrets here. Experts says the documents will tell us about the inner workings of such events and periods as World War II; the Cold War; the McCarthy-era search for Communist sympathizers in the United States and the very real presence of Soviet spies in the U.S. government's upper ranks; the Cuban missile crisis; the Vietnam War and the government's anti-war-protestor activities including surveillance and penetration of activist groups; the CIA's secret experiments with LSD; the Camp David Accords that resulted in a peace treaty between Israel and Egypt; the Iran hostage crisis in 1979; and the Soviet Union's attack on Afghanistan that same year.
http://people.howstuffworks.com/declassified.htm

The government has been delaying declassifying these documents for years, they hold information on such interesting events such as Vietnam, McCarthyism, the Iran-Contra affair, and the Cuban Missle crisis; now Bush is enforcing the 25-year time-limit on classification. Some of this stuff sounds straight out of a conspiracy theory, I am actually excited about this, what are your thoughts on what this mass declassifying might reveal?

I think it'll reveal that McCarthy was backed by the Kremlin to sow disorder in the US.


Not really.

I'm waiting 'till 2033, when JFK assasination files are declassified (I think that's when they'll be.)

On another note, how does one go about getting his hands on U.S. government documents?

I bet it will reveal/confirm such shocking truths as:

1.) McCarthy was a creepy drunk.
2.) J. Edgar Hoover was a crossdresser at night, who often went by the name "Judy".
3.) There were Soviet spies in the US government, possibly even at high levels.
4.) Russians drink a lot of Vodka.
5.) The KKK are a bunch of racist assholes.
6.) We dropped bombs on North Vietnam.
7.) Vietnam War protestors smoked pot and dropped acid.
8.) The Israelis and Egyptians are no longer at war.

On another note, how does one go about getting his hands on U.S. government documents?

Make a freedom of information act request.

I like how they declassify stuff, but then release it covered in black indelible marker, making it all but useless.

I like how they declassify stuff, but then release it covered in black indelible marker, making it all but useless.

Hey, redaction of this stuff probably gives at least ten people lifetime employment.

Hey, redaction of this stuff probably gives at least ten people lifetime employment.

More like 10,000. This is the government you know.

More like 10,000. This is the government you know.

Quite, and they probably purchased over 120 million sharpies for the job. 119.9 million found themselves under some middle schoolers nose.

Quite, and they probably purchased over 120 million sharpies for the job. 119.9 million found themselves under some middle schoolers nose.

Don't forget they paid $234 apiece for them.

Make a freedom of information act request.

How do you do that?(your talking to someone with 0 experience with the gov't)

Just write a letter asking the CIA to send me specific documents? Or is there some sort of bureaucratic process of signing forms?(much more likely)

I want to know more about Project Pale Horse, and other Vietnam war black operations.

Hey, redaction of this stuff probably gives at least ten people lifetime employment.

Not really, they only get to do one series of documents and then they know to much, and must die. It's a tragedy that there's a near infinite supply of federal workers to fill their places...

How do you do that?(your talking to someone with 0 experience with the gov't)

Just write a letter asking the CIA to send me specific documents? Or is there some sort of bureaucratic process of signing forms?(much more likely)

I want to know more about Project Pale Horse, and other Vietnam war black operations.

Nope. Here's a sample letter. cliky (http://foi.missouri.edu/foialett.html#foireq)

That should do it. I did a few of these to the FAA way back and it is pretty much the format I used.

Now, the thing of it is, they won't help you out. You have to be specific about what you want, i.e., don't say, send me all your pale horse documents, because they just say that's too vague and they can't comply. On the other hand if you are too specific, they'll just write back and say, don't have that. It's a matter of balance. You'll probably have to send a few to get anything - if they have anything at all.

You also have to have the relevant department and agency. You might send a request to A) and they'll write back saying "never heard of it, don't have it" even though they know department B) across the corridor has it. It's up to you to find out about B).

Finally, you'll have to pay repro costs and postage and stuff. Once you've started a FOIA request, stay on top of it. Speak to the FOIA officer on the phone, and find out whether or not you want to actually pay for the stuff before you tell them to copy and release it to you.

Edit: And if you do get anything. It'll come back as an unreadable copy, covered in black shit.

8.) The Israelis and Egyptians are no longer at war.

WHAT!?

Dammit, people! You need to tell me these things! I've been doing drills with Mossad for nighttime covert ops into Cairo for the past two years, and I've promised they can use my spare Hind D. Now I look like a complete ass!

Thanks alot!

We may finally get to see what happened to Kennedy! :eek:

We may finally get to see what happened to Kennedy! :eek:

Aliens.

I fear your right for freedom of information only goes so far. It wouldn't suprise me if many things can be kept classified in the spirit of state security...

Aliens.

And there I was thinking he was shot in the head :p

How do you do that?(your talking to someone with 0 experience with the gov't)

Just write a letter asking the CIA to send me specific documents? Or is there some sort of bureaucratic process of signing forms?(much more likely)

I want to know more about Project Pale Horse, and other Vietnam war black operations.

Do you have a legimate reason for wanting the documents. Even though they are declassed, you still have to prove you have legitimate reason. For all we know you might be a spy for Al Qaeda trying to get all info you can.

We may finally get to see what happened to Kennedy! :eek:

No, their classified for another 27 years.

Do you have a legimate reason for wanting the documents. Even though they are declassed, you still have to prove you have legitimate reason. For all we know you might be a spy for Al Qaeda trying to get all info you can.

oh, please.

it's not as if every media outlet ever isn't going to start going through them and publishing the juicy bits anyway.

for three months after this is released, we're going to hear nothing but what got declassed here.

oh, please.

it's not as if every media outlet ever isn't going to start going through them and publishing the juicy bits anyway.

for three months after this is released, we're going to hear nothing but what got declassed here.

ha ha. it's going to take at least 3 months just for the media themselves to get their hands on the stuff.

No, their classified for another 27 years.

Are you serious?

I'm waiting 'till 2033, when JFK assasination files are declassified (I think that's when they'll be.)

I vaguely remember that the release of such files made the film JFK possible. 1963 + 25 = 1988. The movie came in 1991, no?

How do you do that?(your talking to someone with 0 experience with the gov't)

Just write a letter asking the CIA to send me specific documents? Or is there some sort of bureaucratic process of signing forms?(much more likely)

I want to know more about Project Pale Horse, and other Vietnam war black operations. Well currently here are the FBI files that are currently out.

http://foia.fbi.gov/alpha.htm

And how to get CIA info:
http://www.foia.cia.gov/foia.asp

Some interesting stuff.
Proof of China involvement in Vietnam and why the US couldn't do a thing about it.

And the fact that by 1967 the CIA told the Government that we couldn't win.

Well currently here are the FBI files that are currently out.

http://foia.fbi.gov/alpha.htm

And how to get CIA info:
http://www.foia.cia.gov/foia.asp

Some interesting stuff.
Proof of China involvement in Vietnam and why the US couldn't do a thing about it.

And the fact that by 1967 the CIA told the Government that we couldn't win.

Wow, the FBI had a file on Orwell as requested by McCarthy. Apparently, being a socialist and a satirist makes you close-watched... at least, in those days... But Orwell was British... :confused:

Well currently here are the FBI files that are currently out.

http://foia.fbi.gov/alpha.htm

And how to get CIA info:
http://www.foia.cia.gov/foia.asp

Some interesting stuff.
Proof of China involvement in Vietnam and why the US couldn't do a thing about it.

And the fact that by 1967 the CIA told the Government that we couldn't win.

the fact that the communists in china were right above vietnam and we couldnt attack the north vietnamese for that reason wasnt exactly a secret.

the fact that the communists in china were right above vietnam and we couldnt attack the north vietnamese for that reason wasnt exactly a secret.
You'd be suprised on how many times I've heard people say that North Vietnam acted alone, despite all evidence... Of course the report claims that there were no Chineese troops in battle... Where as some troop eyewitnesses claim there were Chineese troops in the NVA.

On another note...
Apparently Hoover thought that Eleanor Roosevelt was a threat to the nation...

We may finally get to see what happened to Kennedy! :eek:

Rumour has it that he was shot.

*nods sagely*

And there I was thinking he was shot in the head :p

By aliens. With a magic bullet.

By aliens. With a magic bullet.

a magic silver bullet because it's obvious that kennedy was a werewolf due to a freemasons curse.

Do you have a legimate reason for wanting the documents.
I want to know what was classified during the 70s. That is a legitimate reason, at least as far as the FOIC is concerned

For all we know you might be a spy for Al Qaeda trying to get all info you can.

Yes, Al Qaeda wants to know what Nixon was doing in the 70s so they can exploit the....NSA..70s...Nixon weakness......thing. :rolleyes:

Any information that the NSA thinks could even remotely by detrimental to national security is not declassified, calm down Senator McCarthy.

* starts assuming new identity, just in case *