NationStates Jolt Archive


Okay, we're done.We need to pull out. We've lost. Failed. Runaway! Runaway! VIetnam!

Captain pooby
29-12-2006, 02:34
Of California. I am ashamed to admit it, but I *Was* born in California. Left the place about 16 years ago, praise the Lord. It was a decent place but seems to have turned nasty of late. Of course, it also depends on the media spin on things.




War-torn Iraq has about 26 million residents, a peaceful California perhaps now 35 million. The former is a violent and impoverished landscape, the latter said to be paradise on Earth. But how you envision either place to some degree depends on the eye of the beholder and is predicated on what the daily media appear to make of each.

As a fifth-generation Californian, I deeply love this state, but still imagine what the reaction would be if the world awoke each morning to be told that once again there were six more murders, 27 rapes, 38 arsons, 180 robberies, and 360 instances of assault in California - yesterday, today, tomorrow, and every day. I wonder if the headlines would scream about "Nearly 200 poor Californians butchered again this month!"

How about a monthly media dose of "600 women raped in February alone!" Or try, "Over 600 violent robberies and assaults in March, with no end in sight!" Those do not even make up all of the state's yearly 200,000 violent acts that law enforcement knows about.

Iraq's judicial system seems a mess. On the eve of the war, Saddam let out 100,000 inmates from his vast prison archipelago. He himself still sits in the dock months after his trial began. But imagine an Iraq with a penal system like California's with 170,000 criminals - an inmate population larger than those of Germany, France, the Netherlands, andSingaporecombined.

Just to house such a shadow population costs our state nearly $7 billion a year - or about the same price of keeping 40,000 Army personnel per year in Iraq.
What would be the image of our Golden State if we were reminded each morning, "Another $20 million spent today on housing our criminals?"

Some of California's most recent prison scandals would be easy to sensationalize: "Guards watch as inmates are raped!" Or "Correction officer accused of having sex with underage detainee!" And apropos of Saddam's sluggish trial, remember that our home state multiple murderer, Tookie Williams, was finally executed in December 2005 - 26 years after he was originally sentenced.

Much is made of the inability to patrol Iraq's borders with Iran, Jordan, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Turkey. But California has only a single border with a foreign nation, not six. Yet over 3 million foreigners who snuck in illegally now live in our state. Worse, there are about 15,000 convicted alien felons incarcerated in our penal system, costing about $500 million a year. Imagine the potential tabloid headlines: "Illegal aliens in state comprise population larger than San Francisco!" or "Drugs, criminals, and smugglers given free pass into California!"

Every year, over 4,000 Californians die in car crashes - nearly twice the number of Americans lost so far in three years of combat operations in Iraq. In some sense, then, our badly maintained roads, and often poorly trained and sometimes intoxicated drivers, are even more lethal than Improvised Explosive Devices. Perhaps tomorrow's headline might scream out at us: "300 Californians to perish this month on state highways! Hundreds more will be maimed and crippled!"

In 2001, California had 32 days of power outages, despite paying nearly the highest rates for electricity in the United States. Before complaining about the smoke in Baghdad rising from private generators, think back to the run on generators in California when they were contemplated as a future part of every household's line of defense.

We're told that Iraq's finances are a mess. Yet until recently, so were California's. Two years ago, Governor Schwarzenegger inherited a $38 billion annual budget shortfall. That could have made for strong morning newscast teasers: "Another $100 million borrowed today - $3 billion more in red ink to pile up by month's end!"

So is California comparable to Iraq? Hardly. Yet it could easily be sketched by a reporter intent on doing so as a bankrupt, crime-ridden den with murderous highways, tens of thousands of inmates, with wide-open borders.

I myself recently returned home to California, without incident, from a visit to Iraq's notorious Sunni Triangle. While I was gone, a drug-addicted criminal with a long list of convictions broke into our kitchen at 4 a.m., was surprised by my wife and daughter, and fled with our credit cards, cash, keys, and cell phones.

Sometimes I wonder who really was safer that week.
Rooseveldt
29-12-2006, 02:36
I am at a loss for words.
Call to power
29-12-2006, 02:38
source?
Proggresica
29-12-2006, 02:38
There is a difference between a car crash and a car bomb.

Goodbye thread.
The Nazz
29-12-2006, 02:38
California would laugh at an idiot like you, Captain Pooby--the US needs them way more than they need us.
Gataway_Driver
29-12-2006, 02:40
I think this persons location sums it up
Psychotic Mongooses
29-12-2006, 02:40
Here's the link:

http://victorhanson.com/articles/hanson041206.html
Kinda Sensible people
29-12-2006, 02:40
Some groups now estimate 100 deaths a day because of violence in Iraq. If 100 people a day were being blown up or shot by gangs in California who were warring for ideological reasons, and the Californian police had been bought by these gangs, I'd call it a civil war.

Besides which, Californians have regular access to electricity, their roads aren't constantly being damaged by bomb-blasts, and there aren't rival militias trying to take over it's government.

There is no comparison.

Edit: The total war average is between 39-42 deaths a day for very conservative estimates. The largest estimates we have seen fall in at nearly 4300 deaths a day.
Captain pooby
29-12-2006, 02:40
source?


I pulled this off of strangemilitary.com.


The point of this article is, the media will make dog turds look like cream pie, and cream pie like dog turds.

They have the power.
The Nazz
29-12-2006, 02:41
Some groups now estimate 100 deaths a day because of violence in Iraq. If 100 people a day were being blown up or shot by gangs in California who were warring for ideological reasons, and the Californian police had been bought by these gangs, I'd call it a civil war.

Besides which, Californians have regular access to electricity, their roads aren't constantly being damaged by bomb-blasts, and there aren't rival militias trying to take over it's government.

There is no comparison.

Shit--I lived in California for two years and would move back in a heartbeat.
Zarakon
29-12-2006, 02:41
Does this sound vaguely like what Micheal Moore would say during sex?
The Nazz
29-12-2006, 02:42
I pulled this off of strangemilitary.com.


The point of this article is, the media will make dog turds look like cream pie, and cream pie like dog turds.

They have the power.

No, what it proves is that you have the reasoning capability of a three year old--or a right-wing pundit.
Gataway_Driver
29-12-2006, 02:42
Does this sound vaguely like what Micheal Moore would say during sex?

no one needs that mental image
United Chicken Kleptos
29-12-2006, 02:45
Some groups now estimate 100 deaths a day because of violence in Iraq. If 100 people a day were being blown up or shot by gangs in California who were warring for ideological reasons, and the Californian police had been bought by these gangs, I'd call it a civil war.

Besides which, Californians have regular access to electricity, their roads aren't constantly being damaged by bomb-blasts, and there aren't rival militias trying to take over it's government.

There is no comparison.

Edit: The total war average is between 39-42 deaths a day for very conservative estimates. The largest estimates we have seen fall in at nearly 4300 deaths a day.

Iraq is much larger than in size than California.
Ifreann
29-12-2006, 02:45
Does this sound vaguely like what Micheal Moore would say during sex?

Such a thing is not possible. The continued functioning of existences depends on Micheal Moore never having sex.
Zarakon
29-12-2006, 02:46
no one needs that mental image

Must...reach...photoshop...
Kinda Sensible people
29-12-2006, 02:46
Iraq is much larger than in size than California.

But significantly smaller in population. Size doesn't really matter. There are more murders a month in California than in Alaska, see, but Alaska is bigger! That must mean California's police aren't as good as Alaskas!
Pepe Dominguez
29-12-2006, 02:47
I'll be happy to leave California next year, but not sue to any of the above facts, true or not. The cost of living out here is much too high for my liking, and traffic's not much fun either. Meh for California.
Zarakon
29-12-2006, 02:48
Such a thing is not possible. The continued functioning of existences depends on Micheal Moore never having sex.

That's what I've always thought too...
The Nazz
29-12-2006, 02:50
I'll be happy to leave California next year, but not sue to any of the above facts, true or not. The cost of living out here is much too high for my liking, and traffic's not much fun either. Meh for California.
It was expensive to live out there, but it's just as expensive here in Florida--just in different ways. My energy bills are higher, and I have to own a car instead of being able to get around on BART and MUNI. My rent is a little cheaper per month, but not a lot cheaper, and food is more expensive here. There are no bodegas in my neighborhood where I can get two bags of veggies for under ten bucks. So all in all, it's a wash at best for me, if not slightly more expensive in south Florida.
Proggresica
29-12-2006, 02:52
I pulled this off of strangemilitary.com.


The point of this article is, the media will make dog turds look like cream pie, and cream pie like dog turds.

They have the power.

You are a fucking idiot. Sensationalism does sell, and the media does pander to what rates, but they will not go out of their way to make a dog turd look like a cream pie when there is already a cream pie somewhere else to do a story on.
The Pacifist Womble
29-12-2006, 02:56
Of California. I am ashamed to admit it, but I *Was* born in California. Left the place about 16 years ago, praise the Lord. It was a decent place but seems to have turned nasty of late. Of course, it also depends on the media spin on things.


War-torn Iraq has about 26 million residents, a peaceful California perhaps now 35 million. The former is a violent and impoverished landscape, the latter said to be paradise on Earth. But how you envision either place to some degree depends on the eye of the beholder and is predicated on what the daily media appear to make of each.

As a fifth-generation Californian, I deeply love this state, but still imagine what the reaction would be if the world awoke each morning to be told that once again there were six more murders, 27 rapes, 38 arsons, 180 robberies, and 360 instances of assault in California - yesterday, today, tomorrow, and every day. I wonder if the headlines would scream about "Nearly 200 poor Californians butchered again this month!"
The suicide bombing stats don't include the ordinary criminal stuff, like what I bolded.
CanuckHeaven
29-12-2006, 02:58
As a fifth-generation Californian, I deeply love this state, but still imagine what the reaction would be if the world awoke each morning to be told that once again there were six more murders, 27 rapes, 38 arsons, 180 robberies, and 360 instances of assault in California - yesterday, today, tomorrow, and every day. I wonder if the headlines would scream about "Nearly 200 poor Californians butchered again this month!"

How about a monthly media dose of "600 women raped in February alone!" Or try, "Over 600 violent robberies and assaults in March, with no end in sight!" Those do not even make up all of the state's yearly 200,000 violent acts that law enforcement knows about.
Although California is 1st in population in the US, it ranks 15th for violent crime. What does that tell you? That there is 14 States with even worse violent crime. 12th in murders, 39th in rapes, 6th in robberies, and 18th in assaults. What State do you live in now?

It just might be worse then the California that you "deeply love"?
Momomomomomo
29-12-2006, 02:59
You guys really can't put up a united front on anything can you?

When I posted about moving to Los Angeles soon everyone said it was the best place the world has ever seen. And now I find you're comparing California to Iraq. Well, really.
The Nazz
29-12-2006, 03:01
Although California is 1st in population in the US, it ranks 15th for violent crime. What does that tell you? That there is 14 States with even worse violent crime. 12th in murders, 39th in rapes, 6th in robberies, and 18th in assaults. What State do you live in now?

It just might be worse then the California that you "deeply love"?Careful--next thing you know, you'll be comparing the cime statistics of blue states with red states, and then looking at all other sorts of "social ills" like divorce rates, teen pregnancy and the like, and who knows where that will lead? ;)
The Pacifist Womble
29-12-2006, 03:01
Does this sound vaguely like what Micheal Moore would say during sex?
fuck you
CanuckHeaven
29-12-2006, 03:05
Careful--next thing you know, you'll be comparing the cime statistics of blue states with red states, and then looking at all other sorts of "social ills" like divorce rates, teen pregnancy and the like, and who knows where that will lead? ;)
Already been there done that in the gun threads. :D
The Nazz
29-12-2006, 03:08
Already been there done that in the gun threads. :D

Oh, I'm sure it's been done elsewhere as well. ;)
Zarakon
29-12-2006, 03:09
fuck you

This made me laugh. Can't get that out of your head, can you?
CanuckHeaven
29-12-2006, 03:11
I've been to California 4 times, and now that I have family living there, I am sure I will be visiting more often. I honestly think that California is a much better place to be then in then in that shangrila of Iraq.
Non Aligned States
29-12-2006, 03:11
The point of this article is, the media will make dog turds look like cream pie, and cream pie like dog turds.


So why make any sort of fuss over 3000 americans dead in an airplane crash on some buildings? What matter if it was deliberate?

3000 dead americans is barely a bump in its annual dead from crime, accidents and Darwin Award winning incidents.
Anti-Social Darwinism
29-12-2006, 03:20
Some groups now estimate 100 deaths a day because of violence in Iraq. If 100 people a day were being blown up or shot by gangs in California who were warring for ideological reasons, and the Californian police had been bought by these gangs, I'd call it a civil war.

Besides which, Californians have regular access to electricity, their roads aren't constantly being damaged by bomb-blasts, and there aren't rival militias trying to take over it's government.

There is no comparison.

Edit: The total war average is between 39-42 deaths a day for very conservative estimates. The largest estimates we have seen fall in at nearly 4300 deaths a day.

I'll grant that there is no comparison between California and a war-zone. But, as another California refugee (I just moved to Colorado), I have to say that our regular access to electricity comes at a price that only the well-to-do can pay - my electric bill for August was over $350.00 - I've talked to others who paid in excess of $1,000.00. As for bomb-blasted roads, well, California has CalTrans, whose apparent purpose is to tear up perfectly functional roads and leave them that way for months at a time. In addition, it usually takes 45 minutes to an hour to drive 7 miles to work. It's noisy and dirty, the people are rude and unfriendly, in the best neighborhood you still don't know if your neighbor is a drug-dealer or actually works for a living. It may not be a war zone and I do have a choice about living there - I choose not to.
Kinda Sensible people
29-12-2006, 03:22
I'll grant that there is no comparison between California and a war-zone. But, as another California refugee (I just moved to Colorado), I have to say that our regular access to electricity comes at a price that only the well-to-do can pay - my electric bill for August was over $350.00 - I've talked to others who paid in excess of $1,000.00. As for bomb-blasted roads, well, California has CalTrans, whose apparent purpose is to tear up perfectly functional roads and leave them that way for months at a time. In addition, it usually takes 45 minutes to an hour to drive 7 miles to work. It's noisy and dirty, the people are rude and unfriendly, in the best neighborhood you still don't know if your neighbor is a drug-dealer or actually works for a living. It may not be a war zone and I do have a choice about living there - I choose not to.

As a non-Californian, I dunno all that much about California, but I will say I'd rather live in LA than in Baghdad.
PedroTheDonkey
29-12-2006, 03:25
There is a difference between a car crash and a car bomb.

Goodbye thread.

Also, imagine how many deaths of Iraqi's we don't here about. They are people too.

*leaves with Proffresica*
Ashmoria
29-12-2006, 03:27
Of California. I am ashamed to admit it, but I *Was* born in California. Left the place about 16 years ago, praise the Lord. It was a decent place but seems to have turned nasty of late. Of course, it also depends on the media spin on things.


so your point is that california sucks? that probably depends on your neighborhood dont you think?
IL Ruffino
29-12-2006, 03:31
no one needs that mental image

Speak for yourself.
Zarakon
29-12-2006, 04:28
Speak for yourself.

You realize I'm going to put micheal moore's head on a naked guy and send it to you, don't you?


Well, if I feel like doing it, anyway.
IL Ruffino
29-12-2006, 04:37
You realize I'm going to put micheal moore's head on a naked guy and send it to you, don't you?


Well, if I feel like doing it, anyway.

Why?

I already have photos of him, the real him, in nothing but a full body leather harness, hog tied, and getting his ass waxed by Ann Coulter.
Lacadaemon
29-12-2006, 04:40
I resent that californians complain about having the highest electricity prices in the nation. That's just not true.
Neo Kervoskia
29-12-2006, 04:46
~SETTING: Sally and Johnny in a back seat having sex~

Sally: Oh, Johnny, at least you're trying.

MEANWHILE INSIDE JOHNNY'S MIND

#1:
Pull out, pull out, we've done all can.

#2:
No, stay in. We have to finish the job

#1:
And ruin our chances of getting sex again?

#2:
If we pull out now, she'll never let us in again. We'll be quiters who never finish the job. What's next, impotence?!

#1:
It's too costly. We should never have tried this in the first place.The hand is just as good...


FIN
Zarakon
29-12-2006, 04:50
Why?

I already have photos of him, the real him, in nothing but a full body leather harness, hog tied, and getting his ass waxed by Ann Coulter.

That explains so much about life.
Wallonochia
29-12-2006, 06:06
Iraq is much larger than in size than California.

Only by about 11,000 sq mi (28,600 km2)

California 158,302 sq mi (411,585 km2)

Iraq 169,234 sq mi (440,008 km2)

my electric bill for August was over $350.00 - I've talked to others who paid in excess of $1,000.00.

Holy crap! I only paid $28 last month. Of course, I live alone in a 1 bedroom apartment and I'm rarely here so I don't use much electricity.
Minskia
29-12-2006, 06:08
california sucks.
Greater Trostia
29-12-2006, 06:32
california sucks.

You're only saying that because you're jealous. California's economic and political power makes your dinky little state look like Darfur in comparison, PLUS we have tons of hot chicks.
Cannot think of a name
29-12-2006, 06:37
I resent that californians complain about having the highest electricity prices in the nation. That's just not true.

No, we where complaining about being gouged. But that was because we deregulated and ended up with too many eggs in a Texas basket. But that's a whole other story.

To the other things-

California is a big ass state. We have the suburban sprawl of LA, the super clean city I'm not convinced people live in of San Diego, San Francisco which is an animal all its own, with Oakland, San Jose and Berkeley all with their own character despite proximity. Sacramento...but seriously, don't go there. Then there are the rural areas, the farming and ranching, the redwoods. It's a big place, kids. If the traffic was too bad for you there's a place where it's practically nothing. If it was too crowded and such there's a place where the population is small and neighborly. Cold, hot, in the middle. Mountain, plain, beach. Pretty much got it all. There is a reason our rent and property is so high...

It's worth it.
The Pacifist Womble
29-12-2006, 23:48
This made me laugh.
I am to please. :)

I resent that californians complain about having the highest electricity prices in the nation. That's just not true.
In any case, they deserve it for gratuitously using up so much energy in the past.
Zarakon
29-12-2006, 23:51
Finally, the one thread combining California Crime with Micheal Moore's Sex Life. 'Tis a thing of beauty.