NationStates Jolt Archive

It appears The Somalia Based SICC islamic fighters have gotten the turds knocked out of them by the Ethiopians. Smells of a classic CIA proxy war. Don't think the Ethiopians are doing this all by themselves though.

They also captured Mogadishu. The SICC thugs promised a bloodbath. Didn't happen.

Road to Mogadishu tells story of swift Somali victory
28 Dec 2006 17:04:29 GMT
Source: Reuters

By C. Bryson Hull

MOODE MOODE, Somalia, Dec 28 (Reuters) - The bloated corpses of Islamist fighters and an unbroken line of tank tracks along the Baidoa-Mogadishu highway tell the story of a swift advance for the Somali government and its Ethiopian allies.

For at least 80 km (50 miles) east of the government's base Baidoa, spent shells from heavy guns litter the road along which the battle for control for the Horn of Africa nation has played out over the last 10 days.
At least two dozen bodies of Islamist fighters, swollen by the sun, lie in the thorny bush of Moode Moode, the closest the Islamists reached to the government seat before being thrashed back by combined Somali-Ethiopian military might.

Some 50 km (30 miles) east of Baidoa, residents of Buur Hakaba said the gunmen of the Somalia Islamic Courts Council (SICC) had left the town far faster than they arrived.

"We thought they would be fighting back and equipping themselves, but they were busy changing clothes," said 40-year-old local Deros Mohammed Ibrahim.

At one filthy camp where two SICC fighters were gunned down, empty water bottles, food wrappers and half-eaten bread lay scattered on the ground.

There was also a box of dates marked "Gift from the Government of Saudi Arabia", perhaps lending credence to a United Nations commission report accusing at least 10 foreign nations of fuelling the battle for the anarchic nation.

The Ethiopian presence, long denied, is no longer a secret. Ethiopian trucks full of relaxed looking soldiers ply the highway, a few with black grease over their number plates in an apparent attempt to hide one of the most overt of covert wars.

At Baidoa airport, where dozens of wounded Ethiopian troops were flown out in transport planes, five Ethiopian Mi-24 attack helicopters sat idle on the runway, their task accomplished.
Just east of Buur Hakaba, about three dozen Ethiopian soldiers sat at a makeshift camp just off the highway as their commanding general gave orders for the advance into Mogadishu.
The Islamists had controlled Buur Hakaba for more then two months and massed troops there for their assault on Baidoa.

But residents -- who complained the SICC had drastically cut the highway commerce the town survives on and imposed a brand of Islam too harsh for local customs -- said its fighters had been quick to swap their fatigues for civilian clothes.

Many said they were happy to see the back of them.

"I am very glad. I did not expect them to lose so swiftly and I thank Allah for their failure," said one local.
Another resident, 56-year-old Sheikh Ali Hassan, agreed.


"They have been here 65 days and I have never seen such abuse and harassment," he told Reuters.
"We have been Muslims for thousands of years. We have not been missing religion, we have been missing a government."

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L28697395.htm

Or utter lawlessness, chaos, looting and a return of the warlords....

Whoopie.

Earlier, as the Union of Islamic Courts (UIC) withdrew its fighters, Somalia's clan militias began reasserting their presence - raising fears of a return to the clan warfare which racked the city for years before the Islamists brought a measure of security.


Residents in the north of the city reported cars and mobile phones being stolen. Rising insecurity forced most businesses to stop trading, our correspondent said.

Annnnddd

Senior UIC official Omar Idris told the BBC: "We know what happened in Iraq... I think this is very, very early to say that the Islamic Court forces were defeated."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6214379.stm

go ethiopia!!!!!

ANYTHING to stop religious fundementalism and religious governments is good. i am ultra religious but would hate to live in a religious theoracacy, so it's great this stuff it stopped.

The beginning of the rebirth of classical modern American foreign policy. It's about time we stopped using the absurdist neoconservative idea that we can do everything ourselves.

Hell, even the Romans made use of local auxilliaries.

Well, looks like anarchy in Somalia again. Smooth move, Ethiopia.

Pwned...
*Cue Victory music*

Well, looks like anarchy in Somalia again. Smooth move, Ethiopia.

Religious Dictatorship or semi-lawless nation...

I'd have to go with the Anarchy.

Too much freedom>No freedom.

Well, looks like anarchy in Somalia again. Smooth move, Ethiopia.

Somalia has always been a hellhole. The best solution is to make it a hellhole that is favorable to you.

And then the Warlords were also willing to hand over Alqaeda. That alone is gold.

Somalia has always been a hellhole.

Except recently when the Courts were in power.... funny that.


And then the Warlords were also willing to hand over Alqaeda. That alone is gold.

Yeeeaah. Of course. In other words it will be a lot like Afghanistan where regional warlords, short of cash, will pick up random strangers off the street and sell them to the US going "Oh! Lookie lookie. They're Al-Qaeda. Where's my money?"

Except recently when the Courts were in power.... funny that. Which they proceeded to crush those who didn't worship their religion.

Which they proceeded to crush those who didn't worship their religion.

Really? Apart from a few isolated incidents (the world cup 'decree' by one out of the thirty two loosely affiliated courts), I saw little widespread 'crushing'. I saw a lot of positive things and some negative things, and some portents but little 'crushing'.

If you could link me to some concerted effort by the UIC to 'crush' Christianity other an other religion in Somalia, I'd be more than happy to read it.

I disagree. Ethiopia has one of the best armies in Africa and certainly the best in that region. Ethiopia was the only nation that could stand up to imperialism and only fell to fanatic fascists. I applaud my favorite African country for their work. :)

If you could link me to some concerted effort by the UIC to 'crush' Christianity other an other religion in Somalia, I'd be more than happy to read it. *Cough* Repeated statements from the groups to impose Sharia Law.

*Cough* Repeated statements from the groups to impose Sharia Law.

From some extreme courts yes (hence my negative and portents comment), however, the vast majority of the courts are simply moderate - and that also goes with their interpretation of Sharia.

Some were bad, but not the boogey man some made the entire organisation out to be.

From some extreme courts yes (hence my negative and portents comment), however, the vast majority of the courts are simply moderate - and that also goes with their interpretation of Sharia.
I'm against Sharia law in all forms.
And did the Moderates do anything to stop the extremist side?

I'm against Sharia law in all forms.
And did the Moderates do anything to stop the extremist side?

Yes. For instance in the now infamous World Cup killings: they did this.

The Somali gunmen who shot dead two people watching a World Cup match have been arrested and will face Islamic justice, an Islamist leader has said.
Hardliner Sheikh Dahir Aweys says the killing of a cinema owner and a young girl was an accident. The gunmen could face the death penalty.

The World Cup broadcast ban is not official UIC policy, but some courts do not allow matches to be shown.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/5153800.stm

To be fair, the execution of the murderers would be the same in the United States, Islamic Law or no.

For examples of their vastly differing interpretations of Sharia law and how strict it is:
But the Islamists are by no means uniform in their application of justice. In Islamist-run southern Somalia these days, how you live, and sometimes whether you live, depends largely on where you live.

In one Mogadishu neighborhood, court officials banned cinemas and satellite television as immoral, and have punished criminals with public lashings and executions, such as the one last month.

Under a different court less than a mile away, pornographic films are shown at night and residents are free to watch CNN and Hollywood movies. Islamic leaders there have no stomach for public punishment, instead sentencing criminals to prison.

In recent weeks the council has issued edicts that attempt to reverse or rein in lower-court actions, such as banning attacks against foreigners or civil-society groups. The council chastised one lower court for seizing control of a former police station, and it apologized to the families of some World Cup fans who were killed by local militiamen in the summer.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003305401_somalia15.html

Now I know there are hardliners (no is denying that - well maybe Sovietstan does) but they are outweighed by the moderates and their interpretation of the Law.

I'm just saying it's inaccurate and just plain wrong to tar them all with the same brush.

I'd have to go with the Anarchy.

Too much freedom>No freedom.
I think you may have misunderstood what was going on in Somalia. It's not anarchism as in the textbook. It's armed groups fighting each other in the streets, coming into your house and threatening to kill your children unless you support them, and so on.

So what do you think happens next? The Ethiopian troops can't stay indefinitely. The Somalians hate them and anyone on their side (ie the Baidoa Gang). The UIC is still going strong. Even if their militias were indeed wiped out, it would take them about two months to get them back to full strength, given the public support and foreign money they have access to.

Fact of the matter is that you don't give a shit about the people there. You just heard "Islamist" and immediately went into 'fight them'-mode.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6214263.stm - Actual eyewitness account of the situation in Mogadishu now. Worth reading!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6214263.stm - Actual eyewitness account of the situation in Mogadishu now. Worth reading!

Read that earlier on. Very enlightening, sad too. :(

It appears The Somalia Based SICC islamic fighters have gotten the turds knocked out of them by the Ethiopians. Smells of a classic CIA proxy war. Don't think the Ethiopians are doing this all by themselves though.

They also captured Mogadishu. The SICC thugs promised a bloodbath. Didn't happen.You sound surprised that the Ethopians won... they have attack helicopters and shit. The best the ICU/SICC (however you want to call them - I'm used to ICU) has are toyota trucks with a gun mounted on top and some rocket/grenade launchers.

I'm not really that happy that Ethiopia is in Somalia (and neither is the African Union). Ethiopia has a history of interfering with Eritrea's affairs to the detriment of the Eritreans. The ICU enjoyed popular support in the 1990s and was a stabilising force in Somalia after the country and government collapsed into anarchy in 1991. The ICU was even able to remove the corrupt warlords, who controlled most of Somalia, from Mogadishu in June.

Pwned...
*Cue Victory music*



Religious Dictatorship or semi-lawless nation...

I'd have to go with the Anarchy.

Too much freedom>No freedom.

well religious dictatorships will always lead to the latter because of their excesses

The beginning of the rebirth of classical modern American foreign policy. It's about time we stopped using the absurdist neoconservative idea that we can do everything ourselves.

Hell, even the Romans made use of local auxilliaries.


I got a bang up idea! Lets turn a war that has very little if nothing to do with america and conservatives into an excuse to attack them!

I got a bang up idea! Lets turn a war that has very little if nothing to do with america and conservatives into an excuse to attack them!

Except that it was revealed shortly before the warlords were driven out of the capital by the UIC, that the warlords (the same ones in the 'Black Hawk Down' incident) were being paid up to $100,000 a month by the United States.....

You sound surprised that the Ethopians won... they have attack helicopters and shit. The best the ICU/SICC (however you want to call them - I'm used to ICU) has are toyota trucks with a gun mounted on top and some rocket/grenade launchers.

I'm not really that happy that Ethiopia is in Somalia (and neither is the African Union). Ethiopia has a history of interfering with Eritrea's affairs to the detriment of the Eritreans. The ICU enjoyed popular support in the 1990s and was a stabilising force in Somalia after the country and government collapsed into anarchy in 1991. The ICU was even able to remove the corrupt warlords, who controlled most of Somalia, from Mogadishu in June.


I'm not suprised at all. Ethiopia's military is far better than the islamist's. They've received support from the US in the past and in this one I am willing to bet they're getting some form of support from the US. We have a score to settle in Somalia.

Except that it was revealed shortly before the warlords were driven out of the capital by the UIC, that the warlords (the same ones in the 'Black Hawk Down' incident) were being paid up to $100,000 a month by the United States.....

Notice I said very little. The US signs checks with a rubber stamp.

We have a score to settle in Somalia.
You have a score to settle, so you fund them!?

*brain explodes*

You have a score to settle, so you fund them!?

*brain explodes*


Bribe...The word is bribe..

Bribe...The word is bribe..

to do what exactly?

This goes to show how the black market isn’t how it used to be (then again I’d like to know how Ethiopia can fight a political movement)

to do what exactly?

This goes to show how the black market isn’t how it used to be (then again I’d like to know how Ethiopia can fight a political movement)


To do whatever we tell them...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6214263.stm

Last night before the Union of Islamic Courts (UIC) left they told the city that they were fleeing so that fighting would not take place in the streets, so women and children would not be harmed - they said we're doing this to save you.

bloody heroes every last one of them I say

We have a score to settle in Somalia.
Why is revenge always on your mind? That which you refer to is history. Leave it be.

To do whatever we tell them...

And that would be keeping those who kill American soldiers in power?

bloody heroes every last one of them I say
Let's give them medals! :p

bloody heroes every last one of them I say

How is that? It was the UIC which brought this upon themselves. Islamist forces attempted to assult Badaoi (spelling?), the stronghold of the provisional government out of greed to control all of Somalia. They overreached. Badaoi was under the protection of the Ethiopian army I believe, and were asked by the provisional government to oversee the protection of the city as they were unable to.
The UIC then proceeded to attack the Ethiopian troops in the city and this is the natural reprocussion. They gambled and lost everything, and are being slaughtered back (Islamist fleeing on the roads in trucks are blown up, their strongholds bombed and shelled).

If the XX century was the century of the fight between ideologies (capitalism X comunism / dictators X democracy), I wonder if the XXI century will be the fight of democracy X islam.

How is that? It was the UIC which brought this upon themselves. Islamist forces attempted to assult Badaoi (spelling?), the stronghold of the provisional government out of greed to control all of Somalia.

or you’ know the UIC could be the legitimate government instead of a few paid Ethiopians who haven’t so much as controlled a town in years

They overreached. Badaoi was under the protection of the Ethiopian army I believe, and were asked by the provisional government to oversee the protection of the city as they were unable to.

Wrong. Ethiopia though that the UIC was a threat for some reason

The UIC then proceeded to attack the Ethiopian troops in the city and this is the natural reprocussion.

1) I doubt there was any attack at all
2) bombing an international airport is a natural repercussion :confused:

They gambled and lost everything, and are being slaughtered back (Islamist fleeing on the roads in trucks are blown up, their strongholds bombed and shelled).

No Ethiopia has managed to march into a few towns and cities big whoop ideas a bullet-proof and dying for what you believe in makes you a God damn hero in my book

I find it very amusing how this somehow discredit’s the UIC for not allowing the conflict to hit the capital then again they must be “ebil Muslims terrorists out to get our rights/jebs!!!!11” and thus not capable of any act of heroism

I wonder if the XXI century will be the fight of democracy X islam.

no this century will be a fight of national sovereignty vs. some guys government that somehow farts roses and is always right

I think you may have misunderstood what was going on in Somalia. It's not anarchism as in the textbook. It's armed groups fighting each other in the streets, coming into your house and threatening to kill your children unless you support them, and so on.
Not if the warlord is secure in his power... Then he just ignores the populace.

So what do you think happens next? The Ethiopian troops can't stay indefinitely. The Somalians hate them and anyone on their side (ie the Baidoa Gang). The UIC is still going strong. Even if their militias were indeed wiped out, it would take them about two months to get them back to full strength, given the public support and foreign money they have access to.
Well they'll be back then. Perhaps without their extremist faction. (Since I believe that they are the ones doing the majority of the fighting.)


Fact of the matter is that you don't give a shit about the people there. You just heard "Islamist" and immediately went into 'fight them'-mode.
Not really more like...
"Islamist Courts," Okay...
"Stable" About time...
"Expanding" Wait a second...
"Sharia Law" No!
*Insert actions of Extremist members* Sick
"Greater Somalia" Asking for it.

They DID do a lot of good things, but then they got arrogant and aggressive, and that ruined them.

If they had kept to the capital and areas that they were wanted, shut up about 'greater Somalia', and make assurances that they weren't going to rule by religious law, 'officially' no one would have cared and I wouldn't have had a problem with them. In fact I would have been somewhat glad of them.

But I think they realized they're mistake, and they regret that this happened. That's why they left the city and that's why the sensable ones aren't fighting anymore. They know it's not worth it.

This thing was never Black and White, I got so caught up I kind of forgot that.

I disagree. Ethiopia has one of the best armies in Africa and certainly the best in that region. Ethiopia was the only nation that could stand up to imperialism and only fell to fanatic fascists. I applaud my favorite African country for their work. :rolleyes:

democracy X islam.you seem to think Ethiopia is a democracy.