NationStates Jolt Archive

After seeing the cartoon controversy, I wondered - would POSITIVE images of Mohammed be offensive to Islam?

Specifically, would a movie be offensive?

Here is the movie idea. It follows the rise of Islam, mostly from Mohammed's perspective. Mohammed is played by a suitable actor, perhaps Omar Sharif. Mohammed is portrayed as an honest man who, when the word of Allah is revealed to him, is steadfast in his beliefs.

Will Mohammed be seen as charging into battle on camelback, scimitar raised high? Depends. If the Koran says he went into battle, then yes. If not, then no. Nothing will be shown that contradicts the Koran. If I were the person making the movie, I would consult with an imam to ensure this.

Would this movie be offensive?

I'm going to guess yes, IMS imagies of Big Mo are teh naughty.

Well although ive heard that images of Mo are banned regardless of content, there werent any complaints when he was in southpark a few years ago. In the David Blaine episoide he used his magical fire breath to dry the cement in the giant john wilkes booth. While totally inaccurate (although the Koran never specifically said he didnt have fire breath), this was a positive portrayal.

There should be no depictions of the Prophet at all, whether good or bad. So yes, most would find such a movie offensive.

There should be no depictions of the Prophet at all, whether good or bad. So yes, most would find such a movie offensive.

why?

There should be no depictions of the Prophet at all, whether good or bad. So yes, most would find such a movie offensive.

What if they blurred out his face?

There should be no depictions of the Prophet at all, whether good or bad. So yes, most would find such a movie offensive.

Then how do you explain all the other depictions of the Prophet?

http://www.zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/islamic_mo_face_hidden/

Yes, could you please elaborate?

And thank you for answering my question.

I'm not sure I understand why, to be honest. We Christians think Jesus is the Son of God and we're still allowed to draw his face (well, not me because I can't draw but you get the idea). I suppose it's just a culture thing, but I'd really like to understand.

We should not try to show Allah or those who carry his message. Many see this as polytheism or worshipping a picture. Here's a link.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4674864.stm

edit: leaving out one little word can change it completely.

So how do you explain said earlier depictions that have been linked to by Wilgrove?

What if they blurred out his face?

Are you suggesting the Prophet Mohommad should appear on Cops?

We should not try to show Allah or those who carry his message. Many see this as polytheism or worshipping a picture. Here's a link.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4674864.stm

edit: leaving out one little word can change it completely.

So why isn't anybody else allowed?

Are you suggesting the Prophet Mohommad should appear on Cops?

I know I'd watch Cops if Mohammad was gonna be on.

So how do you explain said earlier depictions that have been linked to by Wilgrove?

They get away with it sort of since technically they didn't draw him, although I don't think those sort of drawings such allowed either.

I know I'd watch Cops if Mohammad was gonna be on.

I'd rather see Jesus. "Muthafuckin' Arab hippy! You probably wanna get rid of us, don't you muthafucker!" *Hits with nightstick* "Well we're here, you motherfuckin' terriost kike!!!" *Shoots in shin*

How comes, if mohammed is so holy and unique, there are muslims named after him. Why isn't that blasphemy too? It's like growing a depiction of him.

Is it a sin to masturbate, and if it is, is it still a sin if you do it while thinking about mohommad?

Chrisitians are prohibited from making images of Christ too, see: Exodus 20.


Thou shalt make no graven image of the Lord.


Booyah Churches, you are sinning!

Chrisitians are prohibited from making images of Christ too, see: Exodus 20.


Thou shalt make no graven image of the Lord.


Booyah Churches, you are sinning!

Exodus was Old Testament. Christ was New Testament and there is no prohibition from making images of Christ in the Christian religion.

Now, the question is are Moslems offended by images of Jesus? The Moslems believe Jesus was a Prophet and if they are offended by pictures or drawings of Mohammed they should also be offended by images of Jesus.

I'll regret asking, but why is Muhammed's head on fire? Is he like the biblical Ghost Rider?

I'll regret asking, but why is Muhammed's head on fire? Is he like the biblical Ghost Rider?

No, no, he's like that old Burning Bones monster from AD&D

Specifically, would a movie be offensive?

Here is the movie idea. It follows the rise of Islam, mostly from Mohammed's perspective....

There is already one such movie. "The message" - a reasonably good movie, actually. Stars Anthony Quinn.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074896/

How comes, if mohammed is so holy and unique, there are muslims named after him. Why isn't that blasphemy too? It's like growing a depiction of him.

No, not quite. If they named him the prophet Mohammed, perhaps, but simply Mohammed is fine. Its a very common name. And it wouldn't be blasphemy anyway because that would imply that he is God, which of course no man can be Allah.

Exodus was Old Testament. Christ was New Testament and there is no prohibition from making images of Christ in the Christian religion.

Now, the question is are Moslems offended by images of Jesus? The Moslems believe Jesus was a Prophet and if they are offended by pictures or drawings of Mohammed they should also be offended by images of Jesus.

imo, I don't like images of any of the prophets, but thats just my opinion.

Is it a sin to masturbate
not that I know of
and if it is, is it still a sin if you do it while thinking about mohommad?

thats just wrong on a lot of levels.

Then how do you explain all the other depictions of the Prophet?

http://www.zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/islamic_mo_face_hidden/

Holy crap that Buraq thing looks creepy.

which of course no man can be Allah.

Pfhhh. I'm AN Allah.

Pfhhh. I'm AN Allah.

buddha?

Holy crap that Buraq thing looks creepy.

Yeah, I'm kinda creeped out by that too.

Exodus was Old Testament. Christ was New Testament and there is no prohibition from making images of Christ in the Christian religion.

Now, the question is are Moslems offended by images of Jesus? The Moslems believe Jesus was a Prophet and if they are offended by pictures or drawings of Mohammed they should also be offended by images of Jesus.

Christ said he came to fulfill the law, not abolish it, meaning OT still has warrant, and thus you can't make images of God, or in this case, his son.

Christ said he came to fulfill the law, not abolish it, meaning OT still has warrant, and thus you can't make images of God, or in this case, his son.

If you really want to be technical, most of those images really don't look one white like him. More like some well fed, clean cut, overmuscled German instead of pre-diaspora Hebrew.

buddha?

No. I'm the God of Pride-Obliterating Bitch Slaps.

No. I'm the God of Pride-Obliterating Bitch Slaps.

So yes, he is Buddha.

not that I know of

[23.1-7] Successful indeed are the believers,
Who are humble in their prayers,
And who keep aloof from what is vain,
And who are givers of poor-rate,
And who guard their private parts,
Except before their mates or those whom their right hands possess, for they surely are not blamable,
But whoever seeks to go beyond that, these are they that exceed the limits;


No more masturbation for you Soviestan. :p

So yes, he is Buddha.

*slaps you*

Soviestan, I understand that it's against the rules to make an image of Mohammad, because of the whole idolatry slant.

But what do you think? Do you believe a picture of the Prophet would cause you to worship the picture? Would it even cause any one to do so?

I have another question for Soviestan...On one of your recent profile badges you had a quote from the Quaran..I don't remember it exactly but it was along the lines of stating that the Christians and the Jews both beleive that if you are not a member of the respective faiths that you do not have a place in Paradise. I know this is a Christian belief, but it is definately not one of Judaism. Jews believe that Gentiles who adhere to the 7 Noahide laws will find themselves judged on the same level as any Jew. So I guess my question is where does the Quaran derive this statement from?

Jews believe that Gentiles who adhere to the 7 Noahide laws will find themselves judged on the same level as any Jew.

Just out of curiosity, what are the seven Noahide laws?

Just out of curiosity, what are the seven Noahide laws?

These are the seven:
1. Not to worship idols.
2. Not to blaspheme.
3. Not to murder.
4. Not to steal.
5. Not to be involved in illicit sexual behavior (adultery, incest, homosexuality, etc.).
6. Not to eat the limb of a living creature [not to be cruel to animals].
7. To establish courts of justice to enforce these laws.

More info on the Seven Noahide Laws can be found at askmoses.com (seriously, lol) or by clicking on this link: http://www.askmoses.com/article.html?h=541&o=387

Soviestan, I understand that it's against the rules to make an image of Mohammad, because of the whole idolatry slant.

But what do you think? Do you believe a picture of the Prophet would cause you to worship the picture? Would it even cause any one to do so?Moosle, do you actually think its bad for you to eat pork? (I mean if you were Jewish or Muslim)

Chrisitians are prohibited from making images of Christ too, see: Exodus 20.


Thou shalt make no graven image of the Lord.


Booyah Churches, you are sinning!

The King James version says:

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

(Exodus 20:4-6)

It doesn't say anything directly about making images of God, and at any rate it seems the important bit is not whether or not you make the image, but whether or not you worship it.

This is made more clear later on, when God instructs the people of Isreal to make images of cherubim (angels) in the temple:

And make two cherubim out of hammered gold at the ends of the cover.

Make one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other; make the cherubim of one piece with the cover, at the two ends.

The cherubim are to have their wings spread upwards, overshadowing the cover with them. The cherubim are to face each other, looking towards the cover.

(Exodus 25:18-20)

So it is obvious that the second commandment does not forbid the making of images, but the worship of them.

Perhaps they could make such a film, but never show the Mohammed actor's face; only his body from the neck down.

I know I'd watch Cops if Mohammad was gonna be on.

Heh, excellent.

Then how do you explain all the other depictions of the Prophet?

http://www.zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/islamic_mo_face_hidden/

notice how none of those are attributed to Arab artists. They're all either Turkish/Ottoman or Iranian/Persian. Just something interesting I noticed.

not that I know of

thats just wrong on a lot of levels.

In Islam, mastrubation is a sin.

notice how none of those are attributed to Arab artists. They're all either Turkish/Ottoman or Iranian/Persian. Just something interesting I noticed.

You do know Arabs are a minority of Muslims yes?

Also the Ottoman Empire covered a massive portion of the middle east, including modern day Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, and Jordan. Ottoman Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire) lasted until the Brits carved it up into separate countries and royally screwed the entire area.

So to say that Arabs didn't draw those only the Ottomans did is showing an incredible ignorance of the history of the region, and the religion.

After seeing the cartoon controversy, I wondered - would POSITIVE images of Mohammed be offensive to Islam?

Specifically, would a movie be offensive?

Here is the movie idea. It follows the rise of Islam, mostly from Mohammed's perspective. Mohammed is played by a suitable actor, perhaps Omar Sharif. Mohammed is portrayed as an honest man who, when the word of Allah is revealed to him, is steadfast in his beliefs.

Will Mohammed be seen as charging into battle on camelback, scimitar raised high? Depends. If the Koran says he went into battle, then yes. If not, then no. Nothing will be shown that contradicts the Koran. If I were the person making the movie, I would consult with an imam to ensure this.

Would this movie be offensive?

That would be a good trick. Omar Sharif is dead.

[23.1-7] Successful indeed are the believers,
Who are humble in their prayers,
And who keep aloof from what is vain,
And who are givers of poor-rate,
And who guard their private parts,
Except before their mates or those whom their right hands possess, for they surely are not blamable,
But whoever seeks to go beyond that, these are they that exceed the limits;


No more masturbation for you Soviestan. :p

So what? He can take slaves and bang them.

Ma malakat aymanukum ("what your right hands possess" ما ملكت أيمانهن) is a scriptial reference in the Qur'an to what would commonly be called today concubinage. While it is most often used with reference to women captured in war it can be applied to both sexes. It also referrs to general spoils of war and slaves. It is also considered to refer to prisoners of war

[23.1-7] Successful indeed are the believers,
Who are humble in their prayers,
And who keep aloof from what is vain,
And who are givers of poor-rate,
And who guard their private parts,
Except before their mates or those whom their right hands possess, for they surely are not blamable,
But whoever seeks to go beyond that, these are they that exceed the limits


No more masturbation for you Soviestan. :p

It could be said that among whom our right hands possess is ourselves. A lot of people cite this passage when saying it is haram but its awfully vague to me.

It could be said that among whom our right hands possess is ourselves. A lot of people cite this passage when saying it is haram but its awfully vague to me.

so it's clear when you want to use it to control other people but it's vague when someone wants to use it to control you?

so it's clear when you want to use it to control other people but it's vague when someone wants to use it to control you?

When have I used that passage to control others? All I said was that passage was too vague to state whether masterbation is or not is allowed, though to me it seems to show it is.

Why would having a picture of Muhammad make people want to worship him?

Why would having a picture of Muhammad make people want to worship him?

That guy was hella good looking.

When have I used that passage to control others? All I said was that passage was too vague to state whether masterbation is or not is allowed, though to me it seems to show it is.

not that particular passage, but you go in for the whole women must be in traditional roles, covered from head to toe thing

so if it's wrong for a woman to "dress immodestly" you would assume the reason is that it would tempt you into lustful thoughts, which seem to be the entire motivation for masturbating.

not that particular passage, but you go in for the whole women must be in traditional roles, covered from head to toe thing

so if it's wrong for a woman to "dress immodestly" you would assume the reason is that it would tempt you into lustful thoughts, which seem to be the entire motivation for masturbating.

Well the alternate reason to masturbate is so you don't make a puddle in the sheets. That's just messy.

There should be no depictions of the Prophet at all, whether good or bad. So yes, most would find such a movie offensive.

what about a stick-figure that is supposed to represent the prophet?

Why would having a picture of Muhammad make people want to worship him?


I think if you examine the histry of religion and the conditon of people we can find a very good reason to prohibit the use of images decpiting any Prophet of God. A quick look at Christianity show us that part of the split between the Catholic Church and the Reform movement was over the use statues of Saints and Mary that at times bordered on worship. This is similiar to what is found in Hinduism and Buddhism. From these example it is clear that the human condition will lead some people to worship the object and not the spirit. Just as at times people will confuse the physical for the spiritual. The probition is meant to protect people. There is a similar probition in the Baha'i Faith.

Well the alternate reason to masturbate is so you don't make a puddle in the sheets. That's just messy.

that reminds me of an uncomfortable situation I was once in.......

I was at dinner at a guy's house that I was dating, and I guess his mom didn't know I had arrived because I was sitting in the living room talking to his dad and sister and he went to the kitchen to fetch me a soda while his mom yells from the laundry room

"if you are going to play with yourself you have to wash your own sheets James! how many times have I told you?!"

it wouldn't have been so bad, but the son was a junior so for a split second I wondered if she was talking to the guy I was dating or his dad. :confused: :eek:

so if it's wrong for a woman to "dress immodestly" you would assume the reason is that it would tempt you into lustful thoughts, which seem to be the entire motivation for masturbating.

actually this is something i want to know.

Muslim women are supposed to dress modestly. What defines Modest? Is it what is considered modest in the country said muslim is living in or is it decided by muslim men?

that reminds me of an uncomfortable situation I was once in.......

I was at dinner at a guy's house that I was dating, and I guess his mom didn't know I had arrived because I was sitting in the living room talking to his dad and sister and he went to the kitchen to fetch me a soda while his mom yells from the laundry room

"if you are going to play with yourself you have to wash your own sheets James! how many times have I told you?!"

it wouldn't have been so bad, but the son was a junior so for a split second I wondered if she was talking to the guy I was dating or his dad. :confused: :eek:

Haha oh that was classic!

It could be said that among whom our right hands possess is ourselves.

You must have somehow missed DCD's post. Let me post it again.

Ma malakat aymanukum ("what your right hands possess" ما ملكت أيمانهن) is a scriptial reference in the Qur'an to what would commonly be called today concubinage. While it is most often used with reference to women captured in war it can be applied to both sexes. It also refers to general spoils of war and slaves. It is also considered to refer to prisoners of war

You really don't want me to dig up references to "right hand possesses" in Qur'an and Hadiths and show how it is most definitely not referring to ourselves.


A lot of people cite this passage when saying it is haram but its awfully vague to me.

I know for sure that the above interpretation is agreed upon by almost all shia scholars including Khomeini and Sistani etc. I know for sure that the sub-continental sunni islamic sects like Deobandi and Barelvi consider the same. Not that it stopped my friends from borrowing porn from me...lol. :p

That would be a good trick. Omar Sharif is dead.

He is????

Did anybody tell him that?

Or are you saying he is undead!!!?!?!?!?!

actually this is something i want to know.

Muslim women are supposed to dress modestly. What defines Modest? Is it what is considered modest in the country said muslim is living in or is it decided by muslim men?normally, it would be up to the religious leaders, I guess.

The imagery of prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him) is prohibited because people would idolize him as god. He was just a simple normal man, he's mortal, and he spread the message of God, nothing more nothing less. Jesus was also in Muhammed's position but people have come to idolize him as God (and that's one of many differences between Islam and Christianity). When Muhammed past away, his followers were in complete shock and one of Muhammed's companions told them "If you worship Muhammed, let him be known that Muhammed is dead but if you follow Allah, let him know that Allah (God) lives forever". Certainly people are tempted to make movies about the prophet and several movies have been made about him. Usually the character for the prophet is not shown.

Haha oh that was classic!

Smunkee's a girl?

Smunkee's a girl?

Uh yeah, mother of two or three as I recall.

Uh yeah, mother of two or three as I recall.

two.

and yeah, I am somebody's mother, don't you feel bad now Zakaron?

two.

and yeah, I am somebody's mother, don't you feel bad now Zakaron?

No.

actually this is something i want to know.

Muslim women are supposed to dress modestly. What defines Modest? Is it what is considered modest in the country said muslim is living in or is it decided by muslim men?

Modest for women should be covering all but hands and face. Men should also dress modest, covering themselves as well. Similar to dress that is seen in Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and other places. Modest dress is especially important during prayer. A man(or woman) for example should not pray in the nude.

How long ago was it you turned to Islam, Soviestan?

How long ago was it you turned to Islam, Soviestan?

Before I made it "offical", I considered for months. I offically became a Muslim a couple months back. why?

Before I made it "offical", I considered for months. I offically became a Muslim a couple months back. why?Oh, no special reason. I just wondered why people here addressed all these 'islam' questions to you. I hope you take your new authority seriously. If you ask me, I wouldn't dream of answering any of those if I was that new to something... But hey, Good luck!

Oh, no special reason. I just wondered why people here addressed all these 'islam' questions to you. I hope you take your new authority seriously. If you ask me, I wouldn't dream of answering any of those if I was that new to something... But hey, Good luck!

Is that a backhanded way of saying he has no authority?

Absolutely not. I just know there's hordes of devout Christians willing to discuss every angle of their faith in NSG, but only one Muslim I know of. I just seldomly read threads that I know are about religion (I don't care about religion, see... any of them), but this caught my attention. I would have asked, and given that advice, to the only Hare Krishna of NSG if I had the opportunity to do so, rest assured.

If he thinks he has to tell about his thing, then he has the authority.

OK. It just came off as sarcastic to me.

Plus, I think converts are more sincere about and know more about the religion they are joining then say someone who was ingrained with it as a child.

OK. It just came off as sarcastic to me.

Plus, I think converts are more sincere about and know more about the religion they are joining then say someone who was ingrained with it as a child.

LOL. I deleted that whole post. Of course you had to be quick enough to quote it!

I'm way too tired to write anything, it seems. Absolutely not is the essence, though.

not that I know of


thats just wrong on a lot of levels.

Nice to see you haven't lost your sense of humor. :p. To often are serious converts to a religion lose their humor.

Oh, no special reason. I just wondered why people here addressed all these 'islam' questions to you. I hope you take your new authority seriously. If you ask me, I wouldn't dream of answering any of those if I was that new to something... But hey, Good luck!

I think people address questions to me about Islam because it seems I'm the only Muslim that posts here regularly( although I've seen people like Greater Somalia and Groznyc[sp?] around and hopefully they will stick around). I don't mind answering any question about Islam because people fear what they do not know. If all people see or hear about Muslims is 9/11, anger, and terrorism then they may get the impression all Muslims are angry terrorists, when this couldn't be farther from the truth. So I take it seriously in that if I can get the message of Islam out there and help my faith even little, then I feel better. Should be noted, I am certainly not a scholar and don't have all the answers, though I do my best to find them.

You really don't want me to dig up references to "right hand possesses" in Qur'an and Hadiths and show how it is most definitely not referring to ourselves.

alright, I believe you


I know for sure that the above interpretation is agreed upon by almost all shia scholars including Khomeini and Sistani etc. I know for sure that the sub-continental sunni islamic sects like Deobandi and Barelvi consider the same. Not that it stopped my friends from borrowing porn from me...lol. :p


No Muslim is perfect. We all have our weak areas:p

I think people address questions to me about Islam because it seems I'm the only Muslim that posts here regularly( although I've seen people like Greater Somalia and Groznyc[sp?] around and hopefully they will stick around). I don't mind answering any question about Islam because people fear what they do not know. If all people see or hear about Muslims is 9/11, anger, and terrorism then they may get the impression all Muslims are angry terrorists, when this couldn't be farther from the truth. So I take it seriously in that if I can get the message of Islam out there and help my faith even little, then I feel better. Should be noted, I am certainly not a scholar and don't have all the answers, though I do my best to find them.

Yes I am Muslim too. Though I was born into it my family isn't very religious so I'm trying to learn about Islam on my own. I go to a Catholic highschool so there's some more motivation to learn (what with all the questions I get from mt friends); thanks for taking the time to answer all these questions Sovietsan, it's cleared up a few thigns for me too :p

And.. I won't be leaving anytime soon.