NationStates Jolt Archive

I was reading this paradoxically provincial article about certain idiosyncratic Stockholmian behaviour when I came across this:

Dessutom är stockholmare trevliga. De som klagar över att vi inte säger Förlåt! när vi krockar med varandra i tunnelbanan har inte förstått hur det funkar.
Det är av respekt som vi inte säger förlåt. Att trampa på någon är att störa - att börja babbla om saken är att störa en gång till. Den finkänslige drar sig för sådana övertramp.

"In addition, Stockholmers are nice. Those who complain that we do not say "Sorry!" when we bump into each other in the metro have not understood how it works. It is due to respect that we do not apologise. Stepping on someone is disturbing them - starting to babble about it is disturbing them once more. The discerning person will avoid such faux pas."

Well, do you apologise? Why? Why not? Does it have something to do with the town you live in?

yes, but i dont go on about it. i just say sorry, and go on with my life.

yes i apologize when i bump into someone. to not do so is to imply that i either didnt notice or didnt care.

No. I do not apologize for anything unless I'm sorry.

I'm sorry you're an idiot doesn't count, I'd be apologizing constantly! I rarely bump into people, if I do I'll either ignore them or well actually I just ignore them.

I apologise at every given opportunity. It's somehow become ingrained in my social skills that I am always wrong.

EDIT: Although I am an unique, dainty little flower...

I apologise at every given opportunity. It's somehow become ingrained in my social skills that I am always wrong.

EDIT: Although I am an unique, dainty little flower...Are you a member of any particular sect?

I do most of the time unless I'm in a major rush. If I'm like that, one of my friends always apologises on my behalf.

I apologoise , i quietly just say sorry and continue barely stopping

Are you a member of any particular sect?
Nah mate, I'm unique. An unique, dainty little flower. I'm purple :)

Usually i only say sorry when i either bump somebody sort of hard, accidentally let a hand go somewhere it shouldn't've, or when i derail someones shoe. Any other time is kind of "its not like i did it on purpose".

yes even when its not my fault

in Sweden I would be a dörrmatta :(

hehehehe derail someones shoe.

If I bump into someone I say sorry and leave it at that. Anymore than that and I just see it as making a big deal out of something that is truly just insignificant.

I tend to apologize for things that aren't even my fault, it annoys the crap out of my husband.


"I feel so sick today"
"I'm sorry"
"what are you sorry for?"
"I am sorry that you are sick"
"but.......you didn't make me sick? did you? did you?!"
"well, no.......but......."
"then quit apologizing!"

if I bump into someone I smile and say "sorry", it seems to keep them from getting bitchy, of course if they pull that whole "excuse you!" thing before I can say I am sorry I get bitchy.......

I am a delicate flower. I also apologize sometimes. Depends on the situation. If it's a crowded area with people rushing all around, no.

*is all dainty-like*

Sometimes, cause if I apoligized to everyone I bumped into, it would be odd and time-consuming. While not in NYC I'll try to apoligize.

yes even when its not my fault

in Sweden I would be a dörrmatta :(

Åh, men lilla gubben!

*offers platonic hug, with optional frottage*

"In addition, Stockholmers are nice. Those who complain that we do not say "Sorry!" when we bump into each other in the metro have not understood how it works. It is due to respect that we do not apologise. Stepping on someone is disturbing them - starting to babble about it is disturbing them once more. The discerning person will avoid such faux pas."

Well, do you apologise? Why? Why not? Does it have something to do with the town you live in?

Babbling? Disturbing them again? It isn't as if you bump into someone and then come back 10 minutes later to apologize. The disturbance is already there. Giving an apology is one or two words - hardly babbling - and you would say it at the time - thus no "extra" disturbance. It is a recognition of the fact that you caused a disturbance in the first place.

If you hit someone with your car, should you just keep driving so as not to disturb them again with your apology? Or should you pause to make sure everything is alright, say you're sorry, and *then* move on? With your bicycle? On skates? Walking?

I'd have to say, I apologize. A lot, even when it's not my fault I'll take the blame and apologize for it. I don't know why, that's just the way it is.
And in the city I live in everyone says sorry, unless you're the typical douchebag character which is also prominent in my city, so I'd say, generally we say sorry though.

Apologies are a near-constant in Toronto.

If you hit someone with your car, should you just keep driving so as not to disturb them again with your apology? Or should you pause to make sure everything is alright, say you're sorry, and *then* move on? With your bicycle? On skates?

Those are very flawed analogies as there is a world of difference with bumping into someone while walking and running them over with your automobile. (Automobile? Wtf's that about?)

Walking?

You don't often risk actually injuring someone when you walk into them, and as they're also probably walking they also have some place they're walking to, just like you, and they might have some serious, effing business to attend to, unlike you.

If you're a delicate little flower, assemble over here! I'm purple though, so none of you gets to be purple. You have to be unique. :cool:

If you're a delicate little flower, assemble over here! I'm purple though, so none of you gets to be purple. You have to be unique. :cool:

You're having way too much fun with this fantasy. Quite unwholesome for someone dainty.

You don't often risk actually injuring someone when you walk into them, and as they're also probably walking they also have some place they're walking to, just like you, and they might have some serious, effing business to attend to, unlike you.

I've nearly gotten a shoulder dislocated by people bumping into me.

I've nearly gotten a shoulder dislocated by people bumping into me.

you were in a mosh pit at the time?

If you're a delicate little flower, assemble over here! I'm purple though, so none of you gets to be purple. You have to be unique. :cool:

I'll be the world's first plaid flower.

Those are very flawed analogies as there is a world of difference with bumping into someone while walking and running them over with your automobile. (Automobile? Wtf's that about?)

And less difference between hitting someone with a bicycle and walking. Even less difference between hitting someone when you are on skates.

The principle, however, is the same. You acknowledge the fact that you hit someone, and then, assuming that they are fine, move on.

You don't often risk actually injuring someone when you walk into them, and as they're also probably walking they also have some place they're walking to, just like you, and they might have some serious, effing business to attend to, unlike you.

And that has what to do with the price of eggs in China? It isn't like saying two words for which they don't even have to slow their pace is going to get them there any later. Do you think that the words, "I'm sorry," have some sort of physical effect that will slow down their walking speed?

you were in a mosh pit at the time?

Nope. High school.

And less difference between hitting someone with a bicycle and walking. Even less difference between hitting someone when you are on skates.

Those still have a velocity-dependent injury risk, something which is negligible in regular walking. Prancing on the other hand...

The principle, however, is the same. You acknowledge the fact that you hit someone, and then, assuming that they are fine, move on.

But if they are apparently fine?

And that has what to do with the price of eggs in China? It isn't like saying two words for which they don't even have to slow their pace is going to get them there any later. Do you think that the words, "I'm sorry," have some sort of physical effect that will slow down their walking speed?

Do you think that the words "I'm sorry" have some sort of magical effect as to remedy a fait accompli?

(Fait accompli? Seriously, wtf's the matter with me?)

Nope. High school.

I don't think you were "bumped" into quite so accidentally, then...

Depends on the situation, if I'm in a crowded place, then probably no. Depends if its my fault or their fault, if its mine I may say 'sorry'.

Regardless, I liked the 3rd option the most and voted/have dressed accordingly

Those still have a velocity-dependent injury risk, something which is negligible in regular walking. Prancing on the other hand...

Or running, or speed-walking. At the very least, you might knock something out of the other person's hands.

But if they are apparently fine?

Then, like I said, you say your apology and move on.

Do you think that the words "I'm sorry" have some sort of magical effect as to remedy a fait accompli?

No, they just represent politeness. This guy's "explanation" for why it is more polite to ignore the fact that you have disturbed someone is bullshit - plain and simple. It is in no way more of a disturbance to acknowledge the fact that you bumped someone.

(Fait accompli? Seriously, wtf's the matter with me?)

Beats me. Are you a delicate, unique flower? =)

Do you think that the words "I'm sorry" have some sort of magical effect as to remedy a fait accompli?


Sure. You've still bumped into someone, but said someone needn't feel attacked once you've declared it an accident.

I don't think you were "bumped" into quite so accidentally, then...

Nope, completely accidentally. People didn't bother me in high school. Somehow or another I got a... reputation, I guess.

Sure. You've still bumped into someone, but said someone needn't feel attacked once you've declared it an accident.

What sort of freak would feel attacked?

I tend to apologize for things that aren't even my fault, it annoys the crap out of my husband.


"I feel so sick today"
"I'm sorry"
"what are you sorry for?"
"I am sorry that you are sick"
"but.......you didn't make me sick? did you? did you?!"
"well, no.......but......."
"then quit apologizing!"

if I bump into someone I smile and say "sorry", it seems to keep them from getting bitchy, of course if they pull that whole "excuse you!" thing before I can say I am sorry I get bitchy.......

That's not an apology. You're merely expressing your feelings of "sorrow" that he isn't feeling well. It's kind of like telling a relative of someone who died recently that you're sorry. I do it frequently too. Must be a regional thing.

When I bump into someone I usually say "excuse me." Unless, of course, I'm in a big crowd. Then it's kind of pointless.

snipping OP-
This reminds me of the current fashionable notion that it is not curteous to offer a 'Gesundheit!' when someone sneezed- the polite thing to do is to pretend you had not noticed they sneezed and thus "spare them the embarrassment of having to aknowledge that they sneezed, and that you noticed". WTF is wrong with sneezing? I hope this doesn't spread far, and I certainly don't feel it to be the polite thing to do.

Well, do you apologise? Why? Why not? Does it have something to do with the town you live in?
I apologize, and so does every one I know. In fact, if someone bumps into you and doesn't apologize at least very fleetingly, they'll be told off.

Funny that you mention it, though.. I just finished reading "Watching the English" by Kate Fox (highly recommend it, btw, most hilarious read) and she went on about how the English apologize even when someone bumps into *them*.. first I laughed. And then I realized I do the same. Just as it is custom to apologize when someone stepped onto your foot etc., just as well as they apologize. It's weird, but it's done around here.

You don't often risk actually injuring someone when you walk into them,[...]

*makes some witty comment about 'Ärzte-Walking' (which denotes people who walk too damn fast/briskly without giving so much as a side glance to the people they might or might not hit and more or less knock to the ground while on their way getting to their destination) and your curious apparent non-knowledge of it*

This reminds me of the current fashionable notion that it is not curteous to offer a 'Gesundheit!' when someone sneezed- the polite thing to do is to pretend you had not noticed they sneezed and thus "spare them the embarrassment of having to aknowledge that they sneezed, and that you noticed". WTF is wrong with sneezing? I hope this doesn't spread far, and I certainly don't feel it to be the polite thing to do.

I say "excuse me" when I sneeze, I don't know where I got it, because nobody else I know does it, except my kids, who picked it up from me.

*makes some witty comment about 'Ärzte-Walking' (which denotes people who walk too damn fast/briskly without giving so much as a side glance to the people they might or might not hit and more or less knock to the ground while on their way getting to their destination) and your curious apparent non-knowledge of it*

Oh, I know all about it, but scrubs shield me from all reproach. Make me more equal than thou.

What sort of freak would feel attacked?

Far too many people do. Usually testosterone addled young men. I've seen some pretty nasty fights break out over bumping into someone and not saying anything. They feel they are being "dissed" and having their masculinity questioned. There are a lot of weird people out there.

Nope. High school.

There's a difference? :p


- - - -

And I appologize for everything. It annoys people, but I guess I have a very guilty conscience. Sorry if you have a problem with that.

No, I behave just like Richard Ashcroft in the Bittersweet Symphony (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUZcb4yxHOM) video.

No, I behave just like Richard Ashcroft in the Bittersweet Symphony (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUZcb4yxHOM) video.

That song always reminds me of Ryan Phillipe's gorgeous, naked ass. *day-dreams*

Far too many people do. Usually testosterone addled young men. I've seen some pretty nasty fights break out over bumping into someone and not saying anything. They feel they are being "dissed" and having their masculinity questioned. There are a lot of weird people out there.

I know a girl who got an elbow to the boob and a simple battery charge leveled against her for bumping someone in a crowded room. She started to apologize, but when she got an elbow planted in her chest, she decided not to. The two girls had a bit of a rocky history and the girl who made such a big deal out of it was a psycho, but it did happen. ((Luckily, the battery charge was eventually dropped with the judge giving the psycho a reprimand for waisting his time.))

This reminds me of the current fashionable notion that it is not curteous to offer a 'Gesundheit!' when someone sneezed- the polite thing to do is to pretend you had not noticed they sneezed and thus "spare them the embarrassment of having to aknowledge that they sneezed, and that you noticed". WTF is wrong with sneezing? I hope this doesn't spread far, and I certainly don't feel it to be the polite thing to do.

Do you feel he urge to say anything when someone coughs, yawns, hic-ups, or sniffles? If not, then why when they sneeze. It's an irritating custom I no longer take part in. It's silly. If anything, we should curse them for spreading their germs all over the place by sneezing. ;)

I say "excuse me" when I sneeze, I don't know where I got it, because nobody else I know does it, except my kids, who picked it up from me.
I sometimes do, too, mostly because it tends to 'interupt the ongoing conversation', so to speak. But that doesn't make the act of sneezing embarrassing, does it?
Oh, I know all about it, but scrubs shield me from all reproach. Make me more equal than thou.

The comment was more geared towards the "you don't actually injure people when bumping into them" thing- whether you apologize or not doesn't matter, because by the time one of your ilk 'bumped into' me I'm probably on my knees on the floor without the breath necessary to voice any reproach anyway. Tell me, are steely elbows and their expert use on innocent bystanders parts of the entrance exam for med school?

I can't stand apologising, (aka admitting I might be wrong) so I normally just mumble something along the lines of "mmxktcggh" and move on.

There's a difference? :p

If you kneecap someone with a 10 kg trombone case in a mosh pit, you can't claim it as an accident.

Edit: Also, you can't convince the person you kneecapped that it was their fault, since they pushed you, meaning that the trombone case would go forward, and then backward into their knees. Being a science geek ruled.

Do you feel he urge to say anything when someone coughs, yawns, hic-ups, or sniffles?
I have to admit that, having grown up in a very smart-assery kind of family, I do tend to have the urge to make very stupid comments to each of these, yes.

But apart from that, if the cough/yawn/hic-up/sniffle takes on the same 'intensity'/loudness/.. as your regular sneeze (which it usually doesn't), I'd actually consider it normal to say something too, yes.

The comment was more geared towards the "you don't actually injure people when bumping into them" thing- whether you apologize or not doesn't matter, because by the time one of your ilk 'bumped into' me I'm probably on my knees on the floor without the breath necessary to voice any reproach anyway. Tell me, are steely elbows and their expert use on innocent bystanders parts of the entrance exam for med school?

No, just a lack of empathy. Elbows can always be surgically enhanced.

If you kneecap someone with a 10 kg trombone case in a mosh pit, you can't claim it as an accident.

Probably because you couldn't get the trombone case into the mosh pit (although I've seen stranger things in pits).

Edit: Also, you can't convince the person you kneecapped that it was their fault, since they pushed you, meaning that the trombone case would go forward, and then backward into their knees. Being a science geek ruled.

Ah, see, us philosophy geeks just proove it was their fault because of the dialectic between them and us leading to a synthesis between case and knee, to which the anti-thesis was their collapse and eventuall synthesis with the ground.

Normally that's not a healthy response though. Bieng beaten to the tune of someone screaming, "Where is your Hegel now?" is only mildly amusing.

You're having way too much fun with this fantasy. Quite unwholesome for someone dainty.
I've had a very bad day and I feel that escaping into a fantasy land where I'm an unique, purple, dainty little flower might help me. Got a problem with that, take it up with my security.
http://www.talkdesign.org/faqs/icdmyst/dionaea.jpg

This reminds me of the current fashionable notion that it is not curteous to offer a 'Gesundheit!' when someone sneezed- the polite thing to do is to pretend you had not noticed they sneezed and thus "spare them the embarrassment of having to aknowledge that they sneezed, and that you noticed". WTF is wrong with sneezing? I hope this doesn't spread far, and I certainly don't feel it to be the polite thing to do.

:fluffle:
Really, this trends irks me, too. Of course you don't say 'Gesundheit' during a presentation or in a cinema (or, well, actually, I will whisper if it's someone sitting next to me), but in normal circumstances, it should be done.

This reminds me of the current fashionable notion that it is not curteous to offer a 'Gesundheit!' when someone sneezed- the polite thing to do is to pretend you had not noticed they sneezed and thus "spare them the embarrassment of having to aknowledge that they sneezed, and that you noticed". WTF is wrong with sneezing? I hope this doesn't spread far, and I certainly don't feel it to be the polite thing to do.


I'm sure you've confused the situation now.
Gesundheit or Dia linn or whatever flavour of word or phrase is used in your
area is the norm for when somone sneezes. There is no way on
earth that the average sneeze passes unnoticed or where the
sneezer has any particular embarassment other than that of
having interrupted or disturbed people.
So the other people letting them know that they sympathise is reasonable.

The polite offering you give of ignoring it so they can pretend it didn't
happen surely applies to general farts rather than sneezles.

I

I apologoise , i quietly just say sorry and continue barely stopping

I agree. Apologoises are much more widely accepted than apologies. Well, that depends on whether you are apologizing or apologising.

Am I the only one to notice that the more you look at and type the word "apologize/-gise" the weirder it looks???

:fluffle:
Really, this trends irks me, too. Of course you don't say 'Gesundheit' during a presentation or in a cinema (or, well, actually, I will whisper if it's someone sitting next to me), but in normal circumstances, it should be done.

Occassionally someone nearby will start a long flurry of micro sneezes...
Stranger: "Achoo!"
Me: "Gesundheit!"
Stranger: "Achoo!"
Me: "Gesundheit!!"
Stranger: "ACHOO!"
Me: "Ok seriously..."
Stranger: "ACHOO!"
Me: ":mp5:"

I thhhhink.

Yes, generally because that's what I've always done. Never put much thought into it.

No, just a lack of empathy. Elbows can always be surgically enhanced.

I'd say just be cheap and put steel joints under your jacket sleeves.

Yeah, it's only polite, I'll usually only yell at someone if they are being an idiot and bump into me, like running full-speed through a crowd of people or being careless and spilling their coffee or something. If I just bump into someone, it's just the polite thing to do, usually both parties mumble "oops, sorry" and go on with their day. One of those social niceties that make life go more smoothly.

unlss i'm pissed off, then i scowl.

Occassionally someone nearby will start a long flurry of micro sneezes...
Stranger: "Achoo!"
Me: "Gesundheit!"
Stranger: "Achoo!"
Me: "Gesundheit!!"
Stranger: "ACHOO!"
Me: "Ok seriously..."
Stranger: "ACHOO!"
Me: ":mp5:"

my husband is a triple sneezer, it took me about a year of marriage to realize that I needed to wait for three full sneezes before saying 'Bless you'

I never apologize. Sometimes in an argument I might say, "I'm sorry, but you're an assgoblin," but that's different.

I apologise whenever I am at fault.

yes, but i dont go on about it. i just say sorry, and go on with my life.

Yeah same here. If its big bump I say Oh! I'm so sorry... if just regular I say sorry about that, excuse me.

Yes. Usually just say "Sorry" or "Shit, sorry mate" depending on who it is.

If I bump into somebody when it's entirely my fault (due to not looking or just going too fast), I apologise. It's either a "sorry", "sorry, pal", or "woops" (this last one is used when I just barely nudge somebody).

If I bump somebody and it's not entirely my fault, I say nothing. I haven't been badgered for this... Yet.

I was reading this paradoxically provincial article about certain idiosyncratic Stockholmian behaviour when I came across this:

Dessutom är stockholmare trevliga. De som klagar över att vi inte säger Förlåt! när vi krockar med varandra i tunnelbanan har inte förstått hur det funkar.
Det är av respekt som vi inte säger förlåt. Att trampa på någon är att störa - att börja babbla om saken är att störa en gång till. Den finkänslige drar sig för sådana övertramp.

"In addition, Stockholmers are nice. Those who complain that we do not say "Sorry!" when we bump into each other in the metro have not understood how it works. It is due to respect that we do not apologise. Stepping on someone is disturbing them - starting to babble about it is disturbing them once more. The discerning person will avoid such faux pas."

Well, do you apologise? Why? Why not? Does it have something to do with the town you live in?

I have a similar philosophy when people tell me that New Yorkers are rude. You can't get on the subway without bumping into people (in rush hour anyway) so apologizing doesn't make sense. I still apologize when I crash into people on crowdless sidewalks or indoor hallways.

Similarly, people in small towns say hello to total strangers. If New Yorkers (or people in any other big city on Earth) did that we'd never get anywhere. If you've ever seen the last half hour of Crocodile Dundee then you'd see how stupid it is to try to apply provincial standards of politeness to a city.

It depends. If I'm being myself, I usually do. If I'm being one of those extremely annoying iPod kids, I don't, because I have no f.cking clue what's going on around me.

I answered no, although I do occasionally. Though with most people, I come pretty close to saying or actually say "Excuse you!"

I always say "pardon me" or "excuse me" when I bump into someone. Even sometimes when it's not really my fault. On the other hand, I've been known to get downright nasty when someone plows over me without an apology of some sort.

Of course, where I'm from we're generally polite until someone pisses us off, then we're extra obnoxious.

And in the small town I'm living in now, people you don't even know wave at you on the street. Strange, but sweet and quaint.