NationStates Jolt Archive

I think so. But, those who continue to insist that it's all some kind of liberal myth so that they don't have to feel bad about driving their hummers, and leaving the lights/hot tub/decorative fountain, etc. on all night will probably continue their violent opposition for no good reason.

Link (http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article2099971.ece)

I can't sleep unless my decorative fountain is on all night.

I think so. But, those who continue to insist that it's all some kind of liberal myth so that they don't have to feel bad about driving their hummers, and leaving the lights/hot tub/decorative fountain, etc. on all night will probably continue their violent opposition for no good reason.

Link (http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article2099971.ece)

Ummm, yeah. Barbara Streisand doesn't live in a huge fucking mansion that only holds her and her husband.

Wonder what the power bill looks like there.

Has anyone actually read the article yet? Or, is everyone parsing the word in my OP just to make themselves feel better/smarter/more witty?

Maybe they can build floating houses, anchored to the former island.

Anyway, people don't deny global warming anymore, they now deny that it's caused by human activity. Makes them feel better, I guess.

I think so. But, those who continue to insist that it's all some kind of liberal myth so that they don't have to feel bad about driving their hummers, and leaving the lights/hot tub/decorative fountain, etc. on all night will probably continue their violent opposition for no good reason.

Link (http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article2099971.ece)

I don't think climate change is a myth at all. I do, however, think an entire self perpetuating industry has cropped up around it and pretty soon we are going to be fighting the war on climate change (which is inevitable).

The problem is, most people refuse to accept that the biggest contributor to global warming is people. The breeders of the world need to be capped off. :sniper:

Has anyone actually read the article yet? Or, is everyone parsing the word in my OP just to make themselves feel better/smarter/more witty?

You seem to be implying that liberals don't cause global warming.

I can't sleep unless my decorative fountain is on all night.

Thats ok as long as it recycles the water

You seem to be implying that liberals don't cause global warming.

Arabs and communist Venezuelans cause global warming with their oil.

Thats ok as long as it recycles the water

Yes, but does it have to shoot 30m into the air? And what's with all those lights? It looks like an airport!

Yes, but does it have to shoot 30m into the air? And what's with all those lights? It looks like an airport!

I find it soothing. And I need my sleep.

Arabs and communist Venezuelans cause global warming with their oil.

It's the dinosaurs fault. If they hadn't become oil we wouldn't be having this problem.

Arabs and communist Venezuelans cause global warming with their oil.

Quite true.

Shall we slap them with trout until they stop?

Arabs and communist Venezuelans cause global warming with their oil.

No, Hollywood and recording personalities cause global warming when they run their mouths.

Ummm, yeah. Barbara Streisand doesn't live in a huge fucking mansion that only holds her and her husband.

Wonder what the power bill looks like there.

Assholes are assholes, no matter how they vote. Being somewhat liberal myself, it irritates me that those who take it upon their limited celebrity to speak on issues I agree with also have to be wastrels and uberconsumers.

I've got compact fluorescent bulbs all over my house and low-flow shower heads/toilets. Perhaps the Streisand mansion is wired for efficiency, but you're probably right...conspicuous consumption is a bipartisan problem.

I haven't put up Christmas lights since 1988. I think Vegas should have to douse its lights between dawn and dusk in daylight hours. I think the fact that we're at "war" without any call for sacrifice and conservation from our current Administration is a load of dingos' kidneys. I think a lot of stuff. Unfortunately, the addiction to convenience and horsepower (just think of how much energy is involved in having a pizza delivered, for instance) is far too strong.

The response from the US? A new Hip Waders for India and Bangladesh campaign with music by Sting, Bono and speeches by Tim Robbins and Susan Sarandon.

*sigh*

And so it begins...

All I know is it's the end of December and it feels like late September outside right now.

Quite true.

Shall we slap them with trout until they stop?

*adopts shrill PETA tone of voice*

Absolutely not, you cruel person, you! Trout are ENDANGERED!

Assholes are assholes, no matter how they vote. Being somewhat liberal myself, it irritates me that those who take it upon their limited celebrity to speak on issues I agree with also have to be wastrels and uberconsumers.

I've got compact fluorescent bulbs all over my house and low-flow shower heads/toilets. Perhaps the Streisand mansion is wired for efficiency, but you're probably right...conspicuous consumption is a bipartisan problem.

I haven't put up Christmas lights since 1988. I think Vegas should have to douse its lights between dawn and dusk in daylight hours. I think the fact that we're at "war" without any call for sacrifice and conservation from our current Administration is a load of dingos' kidneys. I think a lot of stuff. Unfortunately, the addiction to convenience and horsepower (just think of how much energy is involved in having a pizza delivered, for instance) is far too strong.

The response from the US? A new Hip Waders for India and Bangladesh campaign with music by Sting, Bono and speeches by Tim Robbins and Susan Sarandon.

*sigh*

I put in a windmill and deep cycle batteries long before "global warming" was cool to talk about. I wanted to be off the grid. I've added solar water heater panels.

I did this because I don't want to rely as much on the government and market to ensure that I have power - they seem to fuck that up pretty regularly.

I sell power back to the grid.

I ride a bus to the Metro station, and take the Metro into DC when I go to work.

Hmm. I get to work before most people who drive, for less money. I also get to sleep some on the way in.

And yet I am a conservative. I know a lot of people of the "liberal" persuasion (the area abounds with them) - none of my neighbors have any of the kit I have.

I don't even own or drive an SUV.

I put in a windmill and deep cycle batteries long before "global warming" was cool to talk about. I wanted to be off the grid. I've added solar water heater panels.

I did this because I don't want to rely as much on the government and market to ensure that I have power - they seem to fuck that up pretty regularly.

I sell power back to the grid.

I ride a bus to the Metro station, and take the Metro into DC when I go to work.

Hmm. I get to work before most people who drive, for less money. I also get to sleep some on the way in.

And yet I am a conservative. I know a lot of people of the "liberal" persuasion (the area abounds with them) - none of my neighbors have any of the kit I have.

I don't even own or drive an SUV.

*applauds*

As an apartment dweller, I'd love to buy a house and put in wind/solar. North Dakota has lost of both. The myth that SUVs are the sole province of the Right is one I will gladly call "bullshit" on. Regardless, you're an inspiration, and it probably wasn't all that hard to do what you do, was it? Imagine, SELLING power to the grid. Cool.

I put in a windmill and deep cycle batteries long before "global warming" was cool to talk about. I wanted to be off the grid. I've added solar water heater panels.

I did this because I don't want to rely as much on the government and market to ensure that I have power - they seem to fuck that up pretty regularly.

I sell power back to the grid.

I ride a bus to the Metro station, and take the Metro into DC when I go to work.

Hmm. I get to work before most people who drive, for less money. I also get to sleep some on the way in.

And yet I am a conservative. I know a lot of people of the "liberal" persuasion (the area abounds with them) - none of my neighbors have any of the kit I have.

I don't even own or drive an SUV.


*Golf claps*

So, why is it then that you stand up to be counted with those who continue to spew such vitriol at an idea that is now being shown, in no uncertain terms, to be valid? (i.e. conservatives and republicans make up not only the majority of those who continue to deny the facts behind global warming, but they make up such a large majority as to basically own the whole movement against it)

*applauds*

As an apartment dweller, I'd love to buy a house and put in wind/solar. North Dakota has lost of both. The myth that SUVs are the sole province of the Right is one I will gladly call "bullshit" on. Regardless, you're an inspiration, and it probably wasn't all that hard to do what you do, was it? Imagine, SELLING power to the grid. Cool.

Federal regulations mandate that the power company has to buy your excess power.

But I didn't do this because of global warming. I planned long ago to be more independent (at least as far as my home went).

I wasn't concerned about the rising cost of oil (I had this stuff installed in the 1990s).

I wanted energy independence - for myself. And I found an economical way to do it.

As for who, or what is the cause of global warming, I could care less. The latest research apparently states that even if everyone stopped burning fossil fuels immediately, the warming would continue for another few hundred years, just as if we hadn't stopped at all.

In the context of my lifetime, that means that stopping (even for my children) makes zero difference.

That, and it's far more likely that the human species will wipe itself out with germs or nukes.

As for who, or what is the cause of global warming, I could care less. The latest research apparently states that even if everyone stopped burning fossil fuels immediately, the warming would continue for another few hundred years, just as if we hadn't stopped at all.

In the context of my lifetime, that means that stopping (even for my children) makes zero difference.

That, and it's far more likely that the human species will wipe itself out with germs or nukes.

That's kind of like saying, "don't worry about setting broken bones so they can heal properly since the pain doesn't go away for a few weeks, why bother?"

Proof there is no man made global warming.

Scientists testifying at the hearing described how much of the media has over-hyped the coverage of global warming and used scare tactics to garner public attention. Paleoclimate researcher Bob Carter of Australia’s James Cook University, who has had over 100 papers published refereed scientific journals, noted that “there is huge uncertainly in every aspect of climate change.”

“If you look at the ice core records, you will discover that yes, changes in carbon dioxide are accompanied by changes in temperature, but you will also discover that the change in temperature precedes the change in carbon dioxide by several hundred years to a thousand or so years. Reflect on that. And reflect on when you last heard somebody say that they thought lung cancer caused smoking. Because that is what you are arguing if you argue on the glacial time scale that changes in carbon dioxide cause temperature changes. It is the other way around,” Carter testified.

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2006/global-warming120706.htm

http://inhofe.senate.gov/pressreleases/globalwarming.htm

That's kind of like saying, "don't worry about setting broken bones so they can heal properly since the pain doesn't go away for a few weeks, why bother?"

No that's like saying "you're hemorrhaging to death because your body was sliced in half across the abdomen, and you've got no lower torso - here, have a cigarette, because you aren't going to die of cancer".

The problem is, most people refuse to accept that the biggest contributor to global warming is people.

I read somewhere the biggest contributor to global warming was cow farts not people. :eek: Up with chickens. :p

You seem to be implying that liberals don't cause global warming.

They don't. The private jets Al Gore flys in use water for fuel an only emit hydrogen and oxygen, ;)

They don't. The private jets Al Gore flys in use water for fuel an only emit hydrogen and oxygen, ;)

And Michael Moore doesn't fart, either...

I read somewhere the biggest contributor to global warming was cow farts not people. :eek: Up with chickens. :p

Wrong. Reagan, in a speech, tried to make the silly assertion that cow farts were somehow worse than the effect of human industry on the environment. Take that one out of your case, it just doesn't work anymore.

Wrong. Reagan, in a speech, tried to make the silly assertion that cow farts were somehow worse than the effect of human industry on the environment. Take that one out of your case, it just doesn't work anymore.

No, there's a recent study that says Reagan was right.
Two independents studies, in fact.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/12/12/EDGOULJ5L51.DTL

They don't. The private jets Al Gore flys in use water for fuel an only emit hydrogen and oxygen, ;)

Would you get over the jet thing, like now?? How does flying in a leer jet compare to flying around in a 747 (i.e. Air Force 1) with a limited entourage compare at all?

Quite true.

Shall we slap them with trout until they stop?

Hell no, don't waste perfectly delicious trout. Slap them with chitins or something else nasty.

Wrong. Reagan, in a speech, tried to make the silly assertion that cow farts were somehow worse than the effect of human industry on the environment. Take that one out of your case, it just doesn't work anymore.

Not true. http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=bovine+flatulance+global+warming&ei=UTF-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&fr=moz2

Would you get over the jet thing, like now?? How does flying in a leer jet compare to flying around in a 747 (i.e. Air Force 1) with a limited entourage compare at all?

Better question. How does flying in a Lear jet compare to flying in a commercial airliner on a scheduled route. There is a big difference between private citizen Al Gore and the President of the United States, or the head of any country for that mater.

If Al Gore is going to talk the talk, he should walk the walk. If he doesn't he is nothing more than a hypocrite.

Better question. How does flying in a Lear jet compare to flying in a commercial airliner on a scheduled route. There is a big difference between private citizen Al Gore and the President of the United States, or the head of any country for that mater.

If Al Gore is going to talk the talk, he should walk the walk. If he doesn't he is nothing more than a hypocrite.

And then, when he flies business class, you'll be bitching about how he doesn't use a pedal powered helicoptor. You're a tool.

And then, when he flies business class, you'll be bitching about how he doesn't use a pedal powered helicoptor. You're a tool.

No sir. I don't give a damn if he flies coach, business, or first class as it is his $$. What I do object to is his flying in a private jet instead of a scheduled airlines and hollering about polution and global warming. A private twin jet puts out a lot more emissions than any SUV. Oh, and before you ask I don't own an SUV.

No sir. I don't give a damn if he flies coach, business, or first class as it is his $$. What I do object to is his flying in a private jet instead of a scheduled airlines and hollering about polution and global warming. A private twin jet puts out a lot more emissions than any SUV. Oh, and before you ask I don't own an SUV.

He also takes measures to offset his carbon emissions. You have some good arguments against global warming, no reason to resort to this nonsense.

Unfortunately that could just as easily be proof of one of earths cycles.

Ummm, yeah. Barbara Streisand doesn't live in a huge fucking mansion that only holds her and her husband.

You've become very immature lately. Why talk about an issue when you can just bash a random celebrity?

You could have at least picked a relevant celebrity, like Al Gore.

You seem to be implying that liberals don't cause global warming.
Liberals (and other people who think beyond their immediate interests) tend to make an effort to consume less energy, so his implication is based in truth.

And yet I am a conservative. I know a lot of people of the "liberal" persuasion (the area abounds with them) - none of my neighbors have any of the kit I have.

I don't even own or drive an SUV.
That means you're more of an environmentalist than your friends! :)

Unfortunately that could just as easily be proof of one of earths cycles.

Right, and we can't even consider that possibility, because you can't blame it on big business, industry or Republicans.

Unfortunately that could just as easily be proof of one of earths cycles.

Too fast. Far, far, far too fast. And if this was part of the cycle the global average temperature would be falling, since that's the point where the Earth is supposed to be.

That means you're more of an environmentalist than your friends! :)

It would be environmentalism if that were my motive. But my motive is the concept of the "rugged individual". You know, surviving on your own, without the power company and the government.

I can't unplug my whole life from the rest of the country, but I can make a symbolic effort.

It's also cheaper.

Maybe instead of telling people to hug trees and save the planet, you could appeal to something else - if you made being "environmentally friendly" the much cheaper AND equally effective way to live, more people would do it.

Tell me once again - for those people who love a really large SUV - why isn't there a hydrogen fuel cell powered one? That's cheaper than one that runs on fossil fuel, and costs less to run?

Tell me once again - for those people who love a really large SUV - why isn't there a hydrogen fuel cell powered one? That's cheaper than one that runs on fossil fuel, and costs less to run?

No. Americans are fat and cannot drive. Therefore they love SUVs. They also don't understand hydrogen. It might be satanic. Therefore octane is the only possibly fuel.

Yeah, global warming does exist and it is a problem. But more legislation isn't the solution.

For example, the government owns most of the nation's forests. It then allows logging companies to cut the trees down for a fee. This means that the loggers have no motivation to preserve the land, and they can chop down all of the trees. If the forests were privately owned, there would be motivation for logging companies to replant the trees, and in fact this is what happens in the logging-company owned woodlands.

The government owns all of the rivers too. If the rivers were open to private ownership, it would be perfectly reasonable to sue a factory upstream of you for polluting your property. This used to be the way things were done until a stupid law was passed during the beginning of the industrial revolution.

In fact, if it wasn't for this law, you could very reasonably sue industries if you developed lung disease from their smog.

That said, I do think that global warming is exaggerated, at some times, by environmentalists who go apeshit about it. The world is not going to end in 50 years . . . hell there's 100 years worth of oil under Antarctica (if the UN would allow entrepeneurs to drill there). People will stop driving their SUVs and such when death is truly at their doorstep. I know that this plain sucks, but it's just the way most people are, and legislation won't change it.

Unfortunately that could just as easily be proof of one of earths cycles.

no, it couldn't.

attention creationists/global warming denialists - if you are going to claim that the scientific community is wrong in their interpretation of the evidence, then you'd best have an actual better interpretation of your own that actually fits the fucking evidence. otherwise, shut the fuck up.

You seem to be implying that liberals don't cause global warming.

No, only that liberals are the only ones who think it's a bad thing and that we ought to do something about it. Conservatives are still busy deifying Reagan, the guy who took down Carters solar panels because he thought it was unamerican to try to do things that were good for the planet.

Liberals, being a part of the modern world, contribute to global warming while trying to find substitutes for the things that cause it so that global warming can be reduced and reversed. Conservatives actively oppose doing anything to reduce global warming and embrace those things that cause it.

no, it couldn't.

attention creationists/global warming denialists - if you are going to claim that the scientific community is wrong in their interpretation of the evidence, then you'd best have an actual better interpretation of your own that actually fits the fucking evidence. otherwise, shut the fuck up.

Obviously you did not look at or read any of the links I provided. :( Also, resorting to profanity makes you look like a rude, crude, uneducated idiot.

Obviously you did not look at or read any of the links I provided. :( Also, resorting to profanity makes you look like a rude, crude, uneducated idiot.

inhofe is a fucking idiot who just makes shit up. he puts out reports that directly contradict the actual published research. he interviews paid stooges of the oil industry and pretends they are real scientists - and worse, pretends that their claims aren't demonstrably false and internally inconsistent.

as for the swearing, too fucking bad. civility is overrated in most occasions. doubly so when 10,000 people have lost their homes because of what you personally did and thousands more are coming up next. we're well into "beating some sense into your type with the big stick of empiricism and human kindness" territory.

inhofe is a fucking idiot who just makes shit up. he puts out reports that directly contradict the actual published research. he interviews paid stooges of the oil industry and pretends they are real scientists - and worse, pretends that their claims aren't demonstrably false and internally inconsistent.

as for the swearing, too fucking bad. civility is overrated in most occasions. doubly so when 10,000 people have lost their homes because of what you personally did and thousands more are coming up next. we're well into "beating some sense into your type with the big stick of empiricism and human kindness" territory.

I see your mental faculties are not developed sufficiently to engage in a civil debate. Good night to you sir.

inhofe's last stand (http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2006/12/inhofes-last-stand/)

I feel like the United States has at least taken a baby step in the right direction. I've decided to focus on that. People will deny anything, especially in the face of a change in a way of life for them personally. Anyone remember that when the Wright Brothers first flew it took a couple of years before peer-reviewed science magazines decided perhaps it was not a hoax? Arguing the same arguments (often with the same people) only makes me angry now.

I see your mental faculties are not developed sufficiently to engage in a civil debate. Good night to you sir.

Umm. I'd zip it if I were you, your arrogance is showing. But, it's not like you've EVER had aproblem looking like that before....

so i just read that we've got bears in the mountains spain that decided it was no longer cold enough to go hibernate in the winters anymore.

bears are in on the hoax too (http://scienceblogs.com/grrlscientist/2006/12/bears_are_in_on_the_hoax_too.php)