NationStates Jolt Archive

How do you think it'll turn out? Will EU become a federation and a superpower? (and change its name, I suppose) Will welfare states fall? Will capitalism fall? Will it become a "Eurabia"? Will it become "Fortress Europe"? Will it be just another continent, overshadowed by giants in Asia? What's your guesses?

I can only hope that the USE does come to reign supreme once more. With, obviously, the British leading it to its dominion of the world. Its not so unlikely, afterall Europe (especially if the EU gains Russia as a member) combied is more powerful than any one country in the world.

I can only hope that the USE does come to reign supreme once more. With, obviously, the British leading it to its dominion of the world. Its not so unlikely, afterall Europe (especially if the EU gains Russia as a member) combied is more powerful than any one country in the world.

We've had that kinda glory and I dont think anyone will be leading any "dominion of the world" anymore mostly because it doesnt interest many people...

We've had that kinda glory and I dont think anyone will be leading any "dominion of the world" anymore mostly because it doesnt interest many people...

It could be a good thing for a lot of people, besides, you don't need to march armies all over the place to control it.

Hopefully it will all be destroyed by something dramatic like catastrophic global warming or a meteorite.

No,no,you've got it all wrong.The EU will become all powerful,but there will be an Islamic cleric at the head of it,we shall go to war with America,and with Russia now Islamised and an ally,we shall win,and Islam shall take over the world!Sharia law shall be everywhere!Beards will once again become attractive!
Or some would have you believe,anyway.

the European Federal Union will be one of the world's leading superpowers with a common language, legal system, and parliament with devolved governments.

See, you can make good topics, you just have to try. ;)

Will EU become a federation and a superpower?
I think that in 2100 the European nationstate will have largely disappeared. There'll be some revolting against that in the first half of the 21st century, but practicality always wins these arguments.

Will welfare states fall?
I don't think the idea will disappear, but it will be radically different from what we know today. There'll be a lot less direct taxes and red tape, and a much heavier reliance on government-initiated charity.

Will capitalism fall?
I don't think so, but we'll see whether the Chinese or Russian state-supported capitalism will do better.

Will it become a "Eurabia"?
Depends on what you think Eurabia is. I think that ethnic majorities are going to be eroded to the point where Europe is a truly multi-ethnic society. Partly due to continuing current trends, partly due to the huge influx of environmental refugees, partly because I don't see birth rates doing the sort of 180° turn they'd have to make. Even if ethnic Europeans start having kids above replacement rate, relatively poorer and less educated immigrants are going to have more children.

Will it become "Fortress Europe"?
I think that depends on what happens with Russia. I don't see them stopping immigration for any prolonged period of time, if that's what you mean, but if post-Putin Russia is being belligerent, that's going to shape what Europe will present itself as to the outside.

Will it be just another continent, overshadowed by giants in Asia?
It'll still be a rich continent, but China and India will have overtaken it by then. It's hard to say which role Europe will take in such a world without knowing what China and India are actually going to do themselves.

It could be a good thing for a lot of people, besides, you don't need to march armies all over the place to control it.



1 nation dominating is NEVER good for people, absolute power corrupts absolutely....And in the past Europeans have proven that...Anyway China will pass the EU and USA combined and hopefully the EU will fail....It will be nothing more than another part of northern africa and the middle east and those god awful non-diverse enough asian countries will kick your white asses like they did before they shut themselves off from the world!


http://www.poster.russie.net/images/china_11.jpg

1 nation dominating is NEVER good for people, absolute power corrupts absolutely....And in the past Europeans have proven that...Anyway China will pass the EU and USA combined and hopefully the EU will fail....It will be nothing more than another part of northern africa and the middle east and those god awful non-diverse enough asian countries will kick your white asses like they did before they shut themselves off from the world!


http://www.poster.russie.net/images/china_11.jpg

:eek: ZOMG COMMIE PINKIE LIBERAL!!!!! :sniper: :mp5:





:p

See, you can make good topics, you just have to try. ;)


I think that in 2100 the European nationstate will have largely disappeared. There'll be some revolting against that in the first half of the 21st century, but practicality always wins these arguments.


I don't think the idea will disappear, but it will be radically different from what we know today. There'll be a lot less direct taxes and red tape, and a much heavier reliance on government-initiated charity.


I don't think so, but we'll see whether the Chinese or Russian state-supported capitalism will do better.


Depends on what you think Eurabia is. I think that ethnic majorities are going to be eroded to the point where Europe is a truly multi-ethnic society. Partly due to continuing current trends, partly due to the huge influx of environmental refugees, partly because I don't see birth rates doing the sort of 180° turn they'd have to make. Even if ethnic Europeans start having kids above replacement rate, relatively poorer and less educated immigrants are going to have more children.


I think that depends on what happens with Russia. I don't see them stopping immigration for any prolonged period of time, if that's what you mean, but if post-Putin Russia is being belligerent, that's going to shape what Europe will present itself as to the outside.


It'll still be a rich continent, but China and India will have overtaken it by then. It's hard to say which role Europe will take in such a world without knowing what China and India are actually going to do themselves.


Too linear but that is to be expected...

Edit: Oh btw check this out. Evolution is on my side.


A different type of genetic variation that appears to be under positive selection – a piece of chromosome 17 that in 20 per cent of Europeans is inverted – seems to affect family size. In Iceland, females with one copy of the inverted form were found to have about 3.5 per cent more children than those without, suggesting that the inversion it is in some way enhancing fertility. This variant seems to be becoming more common across Europe. "As long as there's variation in the number of offspring people have, we won't all be making equal contributions to the next generation, so we will continue to evolve," says Dr Tyler-Smith.


http://genome.wellcome.ac.uk/doc_WTX034686.html

See, you can make good topics, you just have to try. ;)


I think that in 2100 the European nationstate will have largely disappeared. There'll be some revolting against that in the first half of the 21st century, but practicality always wins these arguments.


I don't think the idea will disappear, but it will be radically different from what we know today. There'll be a lot less direct taxes and red tape, and a much heavier reliance on government-initiated charity.


I don't think so, but we'll see whether the Chinese or Russian state-supported capitalism will do better.


Depends on what you think Eurabia is. I think that ethnic majorities are going to be eroded to the point where Europe is a truly multi-ethnic society. Partly due to continuing current trends, partly due to the huge influx of environmental refugees, partly because I don't see birth rates doing the sort of 180° turn they'd have to make. Even if ethnic Europeans start having kids above replacement rate, relatively poorer and less educated immigrants are going to have more children.


I think that depends on what happens with Russia. I don't see them stopping immigration for any prolonged period of time, if that's what you mean, but if post-Putin Russia is being belligerent, that's going to shape what Europe will present itself as to the outside.


It'll still be a rich continent, but China and India will have overtaken it by then. It's hard to say which role Europe will take in such a world without knowing what China and India are actually going to do themselves.


Russia gets alot of immigrants? I bet from ex-soviet states. Either way white people are gonna be like the natives americans...near dead and their culture overrun by outsiders. I hope you like being a minority.

The greatest problem Europe will have is coping with its population problems.

Too linear but that is to be expected...
Hey, I'd be making wild guesses if I deviated from that path. It's the same path many societies have taken over the millennia as technology made the distances between them and their neighbours smaller.

The greatest problem Europe will have is coping with its population problems.


Am I the only one who thinks white becoming a minority in their own countries is kinda funny? I don't like it, but europe for centuries went around invading people and forcing their culture down peoples throats, claiming they were better..and now the same people they used to rule and claim supriority over are now making white minorities in their own countires....What goes around comes around I guess.

Russia gets alot of immigrants? I bet from ex-soviet states. Either way white people are gonna be like the natives americans...near dead and their culture overrun by outsiders. I hope you like being a minority.

I hate this idea.People obsessed with the idea that immigrants are gunna come running in,steal our jobs and women,and ultimately breed us out.Do you even live in Europe?

Hey, I'd be making wild guesses if I deviated from that path. It's the same path many societies have taken over the millennia as technology made the distances between them and their neighbours smaller.

It's a wild guess not to leave the path as well. In the end, you didnt indulge me, it was boring. Btw, I recommend Knallhart except it's silly ending...Oh and read the edit of the post you have answered...

Am I the only one who thinks white becoming a minority in their own countries is kinda funny? I don't like it, but europe for centuries went around invading people and forcing their culture down peoples throats, claiming they were better..and now the same people they used to rule and claim supriority over are now making white minorities in their own countires....What goes around comes around I guess.

The simple fact is that we're not being "bred out." Start providing statistics to your claims,otherwise I'll just assume your making baseless accusations and ignore you.Because Islam isn't being "teh ebil invad3r" and,like I said,stealing all our jobs and women.

I hate this idea.People obsessed with the idea that immigrants are gunna come running in,steal our jobs and women,and ultimately breed us out.Do you even live in Europe?



Are you a moron? It is a widely known fact whites are gonna be a minority in europe, DEAL WITH IT OR CHANGE IT! Attacking me isn't gonna change anything but waste both mine and your time.

The simple fact is that we're not being "bred out." Start providing statistics to your claims,otherwise I'll just assume your making baseless accusations and ignore you.Because Islam isn't being "teh ebil invad3r" and,like I said,stealing all our jobs and women.


I'll save your stupid ass the time and ignore you. You are becoming a minority, grow up and pull your head out. Good day!

Are you a moron? It is a widely known fact whites are gonna be a minority in europe, DEAL WITH IT OR CHANGE IT! Attacking me isn't gonna change anything but waste both mine and your time.

I could ask the very same question to you.Are you a moron?I think the answer is yes.I bet that you think that some alien ideology has come to Europe to simply take it over,turn it into a Eurabia.Well,I think you're wrong.Come on,provide me with some statistics,back up your claims,I'm throwing down a gauntlet here.I'm not going to deal with it,because it isn't happening.Sure,Europe will probably become much more multi-cultural.But I don't think there's any chance in hell that we're going to become a minority.

Russia gets alot of immigrants? I bet from ex-soviet states.
Huh?

Russia is moving towards a fairly Imperial foreign policy again. That's what I meant - if you're going to have aggressive bastards on your borders, that'll determine your interaction with the world.

Either way white people are gonna be like the natives americans...near dead and their culture overrun by outsiders. I hope you like being a minority.
:eek:

Oh btw check this out. Evolution is on my side.
I don't think fertility is the problem. Not using it is.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,456371,00.html
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,336760,00.html

Are you a moron? It is a widely known fact whites are gonna be a minority in europe, DEAL WITH IT OR CHANGE IT! Attacking me isn't gonna change anything but waste both mine and your time.

Please provide a reputable source, or shut up.

I'll save your stupid ass the time and ignore you. You are becoming a minority, grow up and pull your head out. Good day!

No,frankly,you're being an idiot.You're just making baseless claims that are spewing out of your ass."Oh no,teh mooslems!Save yourselves,breed like there's no tomorrow!It's the only answer!"
We are not becoming a minority,it's not demographically possible.

Well, that didn't take long for yet another NN thread to turn into "whites r being bred out by the mongoloid hordes."

Well, that didn't take long for yet another NN thread to turn into "whites r being bred out by the mongoloid hordes."

Ah come on.With a troll population like ours,it was inevitable.Though I didn't think it was gunna be Unholy Smite,I thought Mitanni might jump on the old "mooslem invas1on" bandwagon.

Huh?

Russia is moving towards a fairly Imperial foreign policy again. That's what I meant - if you're going to have aggressive bastards on your borders, that'll determine your interaction with the world.


:eek:


I don't think fertility is the problem. Not using it is.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,456371,00.html
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,336760,00.html


Great to see Germany doing something. These two are the greatest links you've provided to me, I think. Holiday spirits?

-The EU will be rename itself "The European Division of the Galactic Government" to cover up for our continued failure to send a man into space.

-Global Warming will become very severe, prompting temperature rises of up to 6 Fahrenheit and the EU (or EDotGG as it will prefer to be known) will respond decisively to the challenge by ordering all Fahrenheit thermometers to convert to Celcius. The heat will force legions of mutant sea otters to emerge from their homes in the depths of the oceans and ally with us as we wage terrible war on the Theocratic Republic of Jesusland (formerly the USA). Our victory will be made easier by the introduction of ID into US science classrooms: secular 'factories; will be shut down and replaced with 'prayer halls', where raw materials are dumped in a pile while the workers pray for the Intelligent Designer to build cars/tanks/stuff from it. This will prove to be remarkably ineffective. All Americans will be fed to the mutant sea otters.

-EDotGG agriculture will suffer due to the radiation spread from The Crater (formerly the Middle East).

-Russia hold us to ransom by threatening to cut Europe's gas supplies and leave us without heating unless we pay him hideous amounts of money. The EDotGG will point out that, due to global warming, we're overheating already and don't want their gas any more. Mr Putin (now aged 179) will respond by threatening not to cut our gas supplies unless his demands are met; the situation will be defused when Mr Putin accidentally ingests a deadly amount of Polonium.

That's about all the predictions I can make at the moment. The Russia thing may not happen but I'm quietly confident about the mutant sea otters.

Well, that didn't take long for yet another NN thread to turn into "whites r being bred out by the mongoloid hordes."



You are, and deserve it. I used to like whites...Now you crackers can die for all I care. Look it up, its not hard to find, Germans are being displaced.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Germany

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Germany

You are, and deserve it. I used to like whites...Now you crackers can die for all I care. Look it up, its not hard to find, Germans are being displaced.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Germany

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Germany

Germans represent Europe?Since when?

The Demographics site-
Germans 91.5%

Doesn't that suggest that Germans are in fact not being bred out,at all?It also says that Turks make up 2.4% of the population,and they are the leading ethnic minority.That's still really small.

The Immigration site-pretty irrelevant,really.

-snip-

Where do you live anyway?

Germans represent Europe?Since when?

The Demographics site-


The Immigration site-pretty irrelevant,really.

A citizen of Federal Republic of Germany is accepted as German in their census. That percentage is meaningless....

It's a wild guess not to leave the path as well. In the end, you didnt indulge me, it was boring.
Well, I was going with the average, since that has the greatest probability.

I suppose it would be more fun to prophesize the end of the world though.

Btw, I recommend Knallhart except it's silly ending...
Haven't seen it, myself.

Great to see Germany doing something. These two are the greatest links you've provided to me, I think. Holiday spirits?
Call it that, if you will.

Either way, they've been talking about doing something for a while now. But if there's one thing you can't accuse the current generation of German politicians of, it's quick and decisive action.

You are, and deserve it. I used to like whites...Now you crackers can die for all I care. Look it up, its not hard to find, Germans are being displaced.

I'm just guessing, but you sound like a 12 year old white kid. I'm not playing.

Ah come on.With a troll population like ours,it was inevitable.Though I didn't think it was gunna be Unholy Smite,I thought Mitanni might jump on the old "mooslem invas1on" bandwagon.

There's always someone who doesn't mind wearing the old jackboot. On an internet forum anyway. It's amazing how that works.

There's always someone who doesn't mind wearing the old jackboot. On an internet forum anyway. It's amazing how that works.

I'm guessing they are,in fact,little 12 year old kids who simply don't get enough attention from their mums,so come on here to annoy us.Judging by their spelling and grammar,I might not be wrong.

A citizen of Federal Republic of Germany is accepted as German in their census. That percentage is meaningless....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_citizenship#Naturalisation_as_a_German_citizen

It's really not all that many people though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_citizenship#Naturalisation_as_a_German_citizen

It's really not all that many people though.



France is worse, I don't even think they state what ethic french is...If you are a citizen you are french.....Not even a %.

Well, I was going with the average, since that has the greatest probability.


Yes but it's not likely that the avarage will persist for approx. 100 years.


I suppose it would be more fun to prophesize the end of the world though.


Not really. Was looking for something imaginative, without sounding too silly and trying to be funny while not being so.


Haven't seen it, myself.


Call it that, if you will.

Either way, they've been talking about doing something for a while now. But if there's one thing you can't accuse the current generation of German politicians of, it's quick and decisive action.


I wish they could have begun debating sooner. But "Family support? That's so Hitler..." taboo dominated too much.

France is worse, I don't even think they state what ethic french is...If you are a citizen you are french.....Not even a %.
The French have a particular approach to it. But at least with regard to Islam, they've done an excellent job in creating a moderate and enlightened network of French Muslim Clerics.

I know you'll try to come up with the riots, but I might as well blame the LA Riots on African Animism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_citizenship#Naturalisation_as_a_German_citizen

It's really not all that many people though.

25% of Germans below the age of 5 (or something like that) got immigrant backgrounds. Of course, they might be like half German and half Swiss or an ethic German from former USSR but the "others" are all that many people still.

Where do you live anyway?


SouthWest United States...1 hour and 40 mintues north of the mexican border.

But "Family support? That's so Hitler..." taboo dominated too much.
I don't think so. There's been Kindergeld (and Mutterschaftsgeld, and Erziehungsgeld) for ages now, they've just raised it and made it a much bigger factor in personal finances.

The debates I heard about were all about whether it was worth the extra money, whether more money is going to have people have children and whether the State could afford it.

25% of Germans below the age of 5 (or something like that) got immigrant backgrounds. Of course, they might be like half German and half Swiss or an ethic German from former USSR but the "others" are all that many people still.



How many of those are not white?..the people with a immigrant background?

France is worse, I don't even think they state what ethic french is...If you are a citizen you are french.....Not even a %.

However,if you look at the statistics of immigrants,they don't amount to much over 6 million.Out of a population of just over 60 million.
Also,
France still remains populated in majority by people of European descent and ethnic minorities make up less than 8% of the country's population
Dispute,if you will.Because I don't think you can.

SouthWest United States...1 hour and 40 mintues north of the mexican border.

Then how the hell can you claim anything about Europe if you don't live there?That's the very reason I stay out of American politics threads-I don't understand them all that well.Yet,you understand the immigration in Europe so well that you can come onto here and start making claims about alien ideology invasions?

How many of those are not white?..the people with a immigrant background?

What do you mean "how many of those are not white?"How can you possibly expect us to answer that?Do you think someone has physically gone round and counted?

EDIT:Oh,and learn some grammar.

What do you mean "how many of those are not white?"How can you possibly expect us to answer that?Do you think someone has physically gone round and counted?

Why is discussion going on for like 3 pages? What are you debating? Dont you know that, except Albania, all European countries got below replacement fertility rates? Who doesnt know that? How old are you?

Then how the hell can you claim anything about Europe if you don't live there?That's the very reason I stay out of American politics threads-I don't understand them all that well.Yet,you understand the immigration in Europe so well that you can come onto here and start making claims about alien ideology invasions?
In all fairness, if he happened to work in a proffesion that involved international demographics or had simply researched this topic heavily he could claim to understand events here. However that is probably not the case. But we do live in an age of readily available international info.

How do you think it'll turn out? Will EU become a federation and a superpower? (and change its name, I suppose) Will welfare states fall? Will capitalism fall? Will it become a "Eurabia"? Will it become "Fortress Europe"? Will it be just another continent, overshadowed by giants in Asia? What's your guesses?

Europeans have been killing each other for 2000 years topped off with 2 wars that killed over 50MM people. The only thing that kept the peace after WW2 was the threat of becoming the Soviet's vacation spot. I find it hard to imagine that they will be a full federation by 2100. They will find something to start killing each other again without an outside threat.

With regards to being overrun by immigrants. I find that unlikely as well. Europeans are only 60 years out from the Holocaust (Hitler did not create anti-semitism, he just rode the wave). Even now, Europeans have been cracking down much harder on immigration then they did 10 years ago.

:sniper:

In all fairness, if he happened to work in a proffesion that involved international demographics or had simply researched this topic heavily he could claim to understand events here. However that is probably not the case. But we do live in an age of readily available international info.

He does,however,sound like a 12 year old kid whose on here to get kicks.

I hate the UN

I hate the UN

the EU will disband. hopefully.

Why is discussion going on for like 3 pages? What are you debating? Dont you know that, except Albania, all European countries got below replacement fertility rates? Who doesnt know that? How old are you?

1.'Cos it's just too tempting to feed the troll.
2.We're debating whether Islam will take over Europe.I thought that was plainly obvious.
3.Come on,reputable source,then.
4.What do you mean "Who doesn't know that?" Funnily enough,a nation's demographics often aren't common knowledge to some.
4.I'm 16.Why?Are you older than me,therefore wiser?

Why is discussion going on for like 3 pages? What are you debating? Dont you know that, except Albania, all European countries got below replacement fertility rates? Who doesnt know that? How old are you?

I'd bet 12 or no older than 14. Everybody knows about immigration in europe and how there are higher non-white population growth in europe than white...But some people are ignorant and misinformed about it. Tell that person to google it.

the EU will disband. hopefully.

While I agree that it has a high probability of disbanding based on past history, why hopefully? I think it is a good idea.

While I agree that it has a high probability of disbanding based on past history, why hopefully? I think it is a good idea.


Economicly it is....Politicaly and Culture...Not so much. Culture wise most of those smaller languages will die out and be overrun by English, German, Italian, Spanish and French.

I'd bet 12 or no older than 14. Everybody knows about immigration in europe and how there are higher non-white population growth in europe than white...But some people are ignorant and misinformed about it. Tell that person to google it.

No,I'm 16.And yourself?Judging by your spelling and grammar I'd hazard a guess of 4,but I'm sure your older than that,eh?

Europeans have been killing each other for 2000 years topped off with 2 wars that killed over 50MM people. The only thing that kept the peace after WW2 was the threat of becoming the Soviet's vacation spot. I find it hard to imagine that they will be a full federation by 2100. They will find something to start killing each other again without an outside threat.
Do you not think that perhaps most of the world can be considered an outside threat in this age. Besides isn't it possible that WW2 will be responsible for the end of the pattern of European violence (especially with MAD now in effect).

With regards to being overrun by immigrants. I find that unlikely as well. Europeans are only 60 years out from the Holocaust (Hitler did not create anti-semitism, he just rode the wave). Even now, Europeans have been cracking down much harder on immigration then they did 10 years ago.
They are cracking down because of the new influx of immigrants from countries joining the EU and areas of the world which were previously to far away for mass immigration. Europe also had a growing population back then, and the holocaust was what has made anti-semitism considered very socially unacceptable.

1.'Cos it's just too tempting to feed the troll.
2.We're debating whether Islam will take over Europe.I thought that was plainly obvious.
3.Come on,reputable source,then.
4.What do you mean "Who doesn't know that?" Funnily enough,a nation's demographics often aren't common knowledge to some.
4.I'm 16.Why?Are you older than me,therefore wiser?

http://web.inter.nl.net/users/Paul.Treanor/nohumans.html

http://www.globalenvision.org/library/8/874

I might as well blame the LA Riots on African Animalism.

You might want to watch that. I'm pretty sure that's not what you mean't.

Economicly it is....Politicaly and Culture...Not so much. Culture wise most of those smaller languages will die out and be overrun by English, German, Italian, Spanish and French.
And so open up the channels of communication. As for the political problems, if the EU could rely on its members to throw their political weight with the Union rahter than against it then they would enjoy a powerful position in the world.

Huh?

Russia is moving towards a fairly Imperial foreign policy again. That's what I meant - if you're going to have aggressive bastards on your borders, that'll determine your interaction with the world.


I like the old soviet thing, annex the bastards and turn the rest into glorified puppet states. Might as well control them rather than them control you. Asians ones are not growing as fast, so try and annes them and turn countires like Iran and Afghanistan into puppets...If you can.


:eek:

Don't like it?

i just lov ethese arguments that devolve into "you must be 12 cause you're so stoopid OMFGROTFLMAOIASC" and then you start posting links to show how awesome you are.
Just shut the fuck up and argue your point, okay people?

In 2100 I think Europe will become much like the United States where before the civil war: a confederacy with squabbles between the groups, but definitely under one central government, which would be made up of representatives of the various states. Oh yeah, it will outlaw anyone under the age of 12 using the intraweb.:cool:

You might want to watch that. I'm pretty sure that's not what you mean't.

was that supposed to be anamism ya think?:eek:

You might want to watch that. I'm pretty sure that's not what you mean't.
Hehe...ooops. :D

Don't like it?
Meh, I was being sarcastic. Me personally, I couldn't give two shits.

http://web.inter.nl.net/users/Paul.Treanor/nohumans.html

http://www.globalenvision.org/library/8/874



Don't feed the troll Odinsgaard.

Hehe...ooops. :D


Meh, I was being sarcastic. Me personally, I couldn't give two shits.


Thats up to you.

It 2100 and Europe is a confederation which mostly operates under the Flexicurity economic model not much has changed in Europe in terms of international politics though there has been a recent uproar over Israel’s use of nuclear weapons against the Persian-Turk Alliance (which was recently joined by Iraq)

Meanwhile Europe at home has changed little since the first robot maids (or robo-sapiens 2.0) came into service the new fashion trend of spandex suites from Dubai are all the rage and wife carrying is the new national sport (the recent world cup had the E.U come second only to the Socialist republic of Brazil riots quickly ensued however over alleged wife doping)

Fusion technology and nanotechnology have however not been so kind for Europe’s neighbour and adopted child the republic of Moscovia which is suffering from economic collapse on a massive scale however European aid has provided a boom in the new industry of mail order nicotine cubes

Thats up to you.
European culture is in great shape. The Japanese Philharmonic Orchestra is doing a great job, I hear.

But then, that's probably not what you mean. You, like all the other doomsayers, don't actually define what "culture" is, and why it wouldn't be just changing like it continuously does (and has to do, lest it grow all stale and icky).

Furthermore, I think people identify more strongly with a specific pop-culture (eg skateboarding culture) rather than some sort of abstract, idealised national one. A skateboarder from the UK would probably get along better with a skateboarder from Japan than with some old lady from his own suburb in London.

While I agree that it has a high probability of disbanding based on past history, why hopefully? I think it is a good idea.

Looking at the USSR (which thankfully is now gone), i see that super-states are not to be trusted.

Looking at the USSR (which thankfully is now gone), i see that super-states are not to be trusted.

how is an centralised authoritarian empire similar to a confederated liberal organization :confused:

Are you a moron? It is a widely known fact whites are gonna be a minority in europe, DEAL WITH IT OR CHANGE IT! Attacking me isn't gonna change anything but waste both mine and your time.
OK, since you obviously have no idea about what you're talking about, I'll explain at length for you about population change rates.

OK - White people in Europe are breeding at less than replacement rate in general. This is not always the case, but the trend is that way, agreed. This is due to a number of reasons, which I'll list :

- Children are really expensive
- Condom use is more prevalent
- People want to stay single and enjoy themselves for longer nowadays
- Crappy working hours for parents

So basically it's all about keeping your quality of life up. White people in Europe have it fairly easy in general, there being not much of a working class and all, and employers often being slightly racist even by accident, or by course.



On the other hand, many immigrants come from places where there were lots of problems, especially with healthcare, and religious piety may also restrict the use of contraeception. Being recent immigrants, they are, on the whole (although not always) going to be slightly less preficient in terms of how well they can speak the native langauge of a European country, so will often work graveyard shifts in the night.

So for the following reasons, they will often have more children :

- Children's clothes etc. often handed down
- Condom use not very prevalent at all, due to fear of children dying at young age (hence getting replacements) and cultural differences in the suitability of their usage
- Often come into Europe married, so they may feel attached to their family and home
- Will work graveyard shifts when children are often already in bed

All of these reasons combine to make children being less expensive, more easily attained by accident, and parents being around (at least one of them) more of the time, all of which increases the amount of children to be found in a household.




Now as a family gets more integrated into European society, they will probably buy more items for their children, possibly try using condoms, due to a lot of family planning clinics and advice against getting STIs, may try to go out a bit more to cafés and cinemas etc. and will grow better at speaking the new native language, which will also mean better job prospects.

These things added together means :

- Children grow more expensive
- Condom and other contraeception use grow more common
- Going out with partners more common
- Hours may change to daytime hours - which are worse for parenting

This brings things to a level close to a 'native' European level, where children are less prevalent due to a number of factors.



This doesn't happen overnight, but it almost always will occur.

This is why immigrants will not 'overrun' Europe, because eventually, they'll get settled and will live lives very similar to the general population of Europe (which is still white, despite what the Daily Mail is telling you).

This is even more the case with second and third generation immigrants who will lead lives pretty much identical to those of people who have been in Europe for a great many more generations.



I make a great deal of generalisations, but my explanation is pretty sound, and I'm sure people actually from Europe will, by and large, agree.

Hopefully it'll be a federal state.

And it has to be said that demographics are very different in each Member state - in Ireland and France the population will continue to grow naturally, but in Italy and Germany, it'll decline naturally (it's very bad in Italy). If it continues, France will end up with a bigger pop. than Germany for the first time since 1871 [when germany was founded as a state/an empire] (which has been a big part of French paranoia about Germany).

Also, all the talk about immigration doesn't take into account how much of the immigration is from (between) other EU member states. People don't care if the Califorians are outbreeding the New Yorkers in New York, do they? But in Europe, Poles moving to Britain/France/Germany in waves is still big news because it hasn't been going on for long. You could see a lot of it as just an opening up of population movements within the Union, like in the US. Also, a lot of immigration is from former Empires, so a lot of them speak the national language and can be more easily intergrated than, say, immigrants from China.
And, if the EU does become federal, it'll probably have an "identity" which is freer from ideas of race and more open to intergration. Immigration isn't necessarily a bad thing. (Though it's strange to see America worry about immigrants from Mexico to the same extent that the French worry about Polish plumbers).

the European Federal Union will be one of the world's leading superpowers with a common language, legal system, and parliament with devolved governments.

Quoted for LOL.

Looking at the USSR (which thankfully is now gone), i see that super-states are not to be trusted.


I liked the USSR and want them back..

this world does not need more super powers. but for europe to gain in unioun the strength to withstand the corrupting influence of the u.s., its worship of the automobile and status quo energy tecnologies and construction tecniques which are at the expense of the very web of life on which even the air we breathe is utterly dependent would be a very good thing.

there will certainly be chainges in the next hundred years, as, and almost certainly more, dramatic then those we have seen in the hundred just passed.

many can almost certainly be only for the good, while at the same time, diversity being the nature of reality, virtualy insures that not all chainges will be in any one, good, bad, or indefferent direction.

the e.u. and brittan, have already made, or appear to be in the proccess of making, a number of u.s. like mistakes. but with reluctance and valliant opposition from much of their populas.

a united europe still offers much hope to an otherwise beleagered world. but by no means the only such hope. nor perhapse neccessarily the best hope in the forseeable future.

at presant though, it IS one of, if not THE brightest among them.

(chauvanistic monotheism is not its streingth but its greatest potentialy fatal weakness, as it has been in america, since that nation's inception. one gets the impression over here in the u.s. though, that europe's brand of chauvansitic monotheism, is still a good bit less fanaticly and absurdly litteralistic then that of the u.s.)

=^^=
.../\...

this world does not need more super powers. but for europe to gain in unioun the strength to withstand the corrupting influence of the u.s., its worship of the automobile and status quo energy tecnologies and construction tecniques which are at the expense of the very web of life on which even the air we breathe is utterly dependent would be a very good thing.

there will certainly be chainges in the next hundred years, as, and almost certainly more, dramatic then those we have seen in the hundred just passed.

many can almost certainly be only for the good, while at the same time, diversity being the nature of reality, virtualy insures that not all chainges will be in any one, good, bad, or indefferent direction.

the e.u. and brittan, have already made, or appear to be in the proccess of making, a number of u.s. like mistakes. but with reluctance and valliant opposition from much of their populas.

a united europe still offers much hope to an otherwise beleagered world. but by no means the only such hope. nor perhapse neccessarily the best hope in the forseeable future.

at presant though, it IS one of, if not THE brightest among them.

(chauvanistic monotheism is not its streingth but its greatest potentialy fatal weakness, as it has been in america, since that nation's inception. one gets the impression over here in the u.s. though, that europe's brand of chauvansitic monotheism, is still a good bit less fanaticly and absurdly litteralistic then that of the u.s.)

=^^=
.../\...



Yeah! EU is gods gift to the world and will save us from the United Nazi States sponsered world poverty! All hail the EU, the second coming of Jesus Christ, he will take his place as the head of the EU! BOW DOWN BEFORE YOUR SAVIOURS!




:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Yeah! EU is gods gift to the world and will save us from the United Nazi States sponsered world poverty! All hail the EU, the second coming of Jesus Christ, he will take his place as the head of the EU! BOW DOWN BEFORE YOUR SAVIOURS!




:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
...

What the hell is wrong with you? Where did Cameroi declare the U.S. some kind of fascist dictatorship? She merely said that chauvanistic monotheism is not a strength and that the EU is making some mistakes the U.S. made and she's right. Let's face it: the U.S. makes plenty of mistakes: electing Bush, for one. Multiculturalism is a good thing, so long as it's done properly. Obviously you can't just throw cultures together and expect things to work; it must be done gradually. Know the best way to accomplish that? Immigration over time.

The population of Europe will change; that much is a given. I fail, however, to see why the change is a bad thing. I'm not saying it's a good thing, since it can easily be neither, but I fail to see why it's bad.

I sincerely hope it becomes a federal state, somewhat looser than the US arrangement, but unified nonetheless. The absence of welfare systems and ethnic minorities would be the cherry, as it were....

I sincerely hope it becomes a federal state, somewhat looser than the US arrangement, but unified nonetheless. The absence of welfare systems and ethnic minorities would be the cherry, as it were....

...

The welfare system bit is reasonably debatable, but what's wrong with ethnic minorities? Your racism is showing.

...

The welfare system bit is reasonably debatable, but what's wrong with ethnic minorities? Your racism is showing.

One might question what is right with them with more ease. In regard to cultural, economic and social progression, what do ethnic minorities bring to European society in any palpable sense?

The simple fact is that we're not being "bred out." Start providing statistics to your claims,otherwise I'll just assume your making baseless accusations and ignore you.Because Islam isn't being "teh ebil invad3r" and,like I said,stealing all our jobs and women.

Nah...that'll be the Poles, Rumanians and Bulgarians...

One might question what is right with them with more ease.
But you'd be asking the wrong question. Having no policy in place, there'd be immigrants of different ethnicities.

So for there to be no ethnic minorities, you'd have to have some sort of activist policy. And therefore, it would be your job to argue for such a policy, rather than ask us to argue why we should not be doing it. The onus is on you, because you are the one who wants to put a certain public policy in place.

One might question what is right with them with more ease. In regard to cultural, economic and social progression, what do ethnic minorities bring to European society in any palpable sense?

...

They bring different perspectives, assimilation of their culture and European culture into something new? They bring their skills, their education, their knowledge into jobs they hold? They become interested in politics and vote on issues that matter to them? Oh, I don't know, they're PEOPLE?!

What the hell, man? "What do they bring?"?! Who cares?! They're people, just like you and me. Why should a different ethnicity matter at all? God, I cannot understand people like you. You fret and worry so much over a difference in skin color. For God's sake, grow up!

I sincerely hope it becomes a federal state, somewhat looser than the US arrangement, but unified nonetheless. The absence of welfare systems and ethnic minorities would be the cherry, as it were....

The absence of ethnic minorities would be the cherry.

Please...how do you intend on absenting them?

Some form of ethinic cleansing? What about those who are 2nd, 3rd or more generation europeans? You want to kick them out as well? How do you intend on achieving that?

Don't feed the troll Odinsgaard.

Ha,now I'm a troll?You're the one making baseless claims about something you don't understand.Deliberately trying to get rises out of people.Metinks you're the troll here.

I see no way anybody could come to any sort of reasonable guess at the state of EU or the world in 2100, no matter what theories or models you use.

One might question what is right with them with more ease. In regard to cultural, economic and social progression, what do ethnic minorities bring to European society in any palpable sense?

They're humans,just like you and me,but evidently you can't see that.

I see no way anybody could come to any sort of reasonable guess at the state of EU or the world in 2100, no matter what theories or models you use.

We're making guesses based on trends.That's what this debate's all about-educated guessing and trends,common sense.We might not be right,but we can try.

I liked the USSR and want them back..

That would explain a lot about you.

They're humans,just like you and me,but evidently you can't see that.

Humans? Yes. A social cancer? Also yes.

Humans? Yes. A social cancer? Also yes.

Riiiiiiight! What are you? 12?

Read some history.

Humans? Yes. A social cancer? Also yes.

How are they a social cancer?They bring a valuable workforce,and most of them are fleeing from the conflicts in their own country.OK,so some are here to make trouble-coming from the UK,which I think you do as well,I know a lot of immigrants who ARE nothing but trouble,but equally,I know a lot who are just here to live their lives as normal.

Riiiiiiight! What are you? 12?

Read some history.

I think you're the 4th person to use the "You're 12!" argument.Me included.We should probably stop.

I think you're the 4th person to use the "You're 12!" argument.Me included.We should probably stop.

LOL!!!

Ok...

He's 9!

Eitherway its an odious thing to say about members of our own species. And ignorant.

LOL!!!

Ok...

He's 9!

Eitherway its an odious thing to say about members of our own species. And ignorant.

Too true.

Riiiiiiight! What are you? 12?

Read some history.

I fail to see what open door immigration brings to Europe. With the omission of Indian communities in England, which are laudably affluent, all other ethnic minorities constitute an economic burden upon society, and thus we might consider what role they play within society. Granted, a decent proportion of white, native Britons are a drain upon the welfare state, however they have a hereditary, and historical, right to citizenship, whereas extra-European immigrants, omitting Indian communities,are simply a residual reminder of the folly of the 1950's and 1960's.

How are they a social cancer?They bring a valuable workforce,and most of them are fleeing from the conflicts in their own country.OK,so some are here to make trouble-coming from the UK,which I think you do as well,I know a lot of immigrants who ARE nothing but trouble,but equally,I know a lot who are just here to live their lives as normal.

However, given that immigration, once more omitting those selectively sought, has had a malign effect upon English society, and no marked increase upon the economy solely by itself, surely it is a social ill?

I fail to see what open door immigration brings to Europe. With the omission of Indian communities in England, which are laudably affluent, all other ethnic minorities constitute an economic burden upon society, and thus we might consider what role they play within society. Granted, a decent proportion of white, native Britons are a drain upon the welfare state, however they have a hereditary, and historical, right to citizenship, whereas extra-European immigrants, omitting Indian communities,are simply a residual reminder of the folly of the 1950's and 1960's.

Well I can't fault you for bad writing skills!

The content is rubbish however, especially the part about hereditary rights. You do realise that immigrants have children. You want to remove them as well?

How?

However, given that immigration, once more omitting those selectively sought, has had a malign effect upon English society, and no marked increase upon the economy solely by itself, surely it is a social ill?

Please...what are these malign effects?

Do they not have malign effects in other countries like Scotland, Wales or NI? Or only England?

Well I can't fault you for bad writing skills!

The content is rubbish however, especially the part about hereditary rights. You do realise that immigrants have children. You want to remove them as well?

How?

Given that their parents aren't English, and, I daresay, reject any sense of English identity beyond their welfare payments and Labour votesm yes.

However, given that immigration, once more omitting those selectively sought, has had a malign effect upon English society, and no marked increase upon the economy solely by itself, surely it is a social ill?

No it's not a social ill.When was the last time you ate a chinese takeaway,or an Indian takeaway?Ethnic minorities bring a lot to our nation.They bring a workforce,different foods,cultures,different ways to lead our lives-hell,we wouldn't even have basic things like bananas,fruits or grapes if it wasn't for immigrants.Think what we have now...and think what we wouldn't have if we had no immigration.

Given that their parents aren't English, and, I daresay, reject any sense of English identity beyond their welfare payments and Labour votesm yes.

You only answered half his question.How are you going to rid this "great nation" of all it's "dirty immigrants?"

Given that their parents aren't English, and, I daresay, reject any sense of English identity beyond their welfare payments and Labour votesm yes.

Right. So you are able to somehow magically know all this...amazing.

Do you actually know any immigrants?

I ask because I would like to understand the basis for your extreme reaction.

You only answered half his question.How are you going to rid this "great nation" of all it's "dirty immigrants?"

The dirt? A bath perhaps....;)

I always felt British forces would be much better employed in the UK in any case.

Blessed Chris -

Could you list those you would consider as immigrants?

We'll be living like slaves, making socks for the Chinese.

We'll be living like slaves, making socks for the Chinese.

Beats condoms!

/mustkeepmindoutofthegutter!

OK, since you obviously have no idea about what you're talking about, I'll explain at length for you about population change rates.

OK - White people in Europe are breeding at less than replacement rate in general. This is not always the case, but the trend is that way, agreed. This is due to a number of reasons, which I'll list :

- Children are really expensive
- Condom use is more prevalent
- People want to stay single and enjoy themselves for longer nowadays
- Crappy working hours for parents

So basically it's all about keeping your quality of life up. White people in Europe have it fairly easy in general, there being not much of a working class and all, and employers often being slightly racist even by accident, or by course.



On the other hand, many immigrants come from places where there were lots of problems, especially with healthcare, and religious piety may also restrict the use of contraeception. Being recent immigrants, they are, on the whole (although not always) going to be slightly less preficient in terms of how well they can speak the native langauge of a European country, so will often work graveyard shifts in the night.

So for the following reasons, they will often have more children :

- Children's clothes etc. often handed down
- Condom use not very prevalent at all, due to fear of children dying at young age (hence getting replacements) and cultural differences in the suitability of their usage
- Often come into Europe married, so they may feel attached to their family and home
- Will work graveyard shifts when children are often already in bed

All of these reasons combine to make children being less expensive, more easily attained by accident, and parents being around (at least one of them) more of the time, all of which increases the amount of children to be found in a household.




Now as a family gets more integrated into European society, they will probably buy more items for their children, possibly try using condoms, due to a lot of family planning clinics and advice against getting STIs, may try to go out a bit more to cafés and cinemas etc. and will grow better at speaking the new native language, which will also mean better job prospects.

These things added together means :

- Children grow more expensive
- Condom and other contraeception use grow more common
- Going out with partners more common
- Hours may change to daytime hours - which are worse for parenting

This brings things to a level close to a 'native' European level, where children are less prevalent due to a number of factors.



This doesn't happen overnight, but it almost always will occur.

This is why immigrants will not 'overrun' Europe, because eventually, they'll get settled and will live lives very similar to the general population of Europe (which is still white, despite what the Daily Mail is telling you).

This is even more the case with second and third generation immigrants who will lead lives pretty much identical to those of people who have been in Europe for a great many more generations.



I make a great deal of generalisations, but my explanation is pretty sound, and I'm sure people actually from Europe will, by and large, agree.


Once older immigrants get integrated, there'll be newer immigrants with higher birth rates. As they integrate within a generation or more, there'll be even newer immigrants, since immigration, at this point, is continous. Hence your lengthy theories are only correct if immigration is stopped.

I fail to see what open door immigration brings to Europe. With the omission of Indian communities in England, which are laudably affluent, all other ethnic minorities constitute an economic burden upon society, and thus we might consider what role they play within society. Granted, a decent proportion of white, native Britons are a drain upon the welfare state, however they have a hereditary, and historical, right to citizenship, whereas extra-European immigrants, omitting Indian communities,are simply a residual reminder of the folly of the 1950's and 1960's.

Even if they did bring something, I still wouldnt want them around, for some reason beyond my control...

Once older immigrants get integrated, there'll be newer immigrants with higher birth rates. As they integrate within a generation or more, there'll be even newer immigrants, since immigration, at this point, is continous. Hence your lengthy theories are only correct if immigration is stopped.
Immigration will stop when enough people leave their homeland to free up resources for the remaining population, so that quality of life is raised inside the home state and people stay there.

In addition to this, across Africa and Asia, family planning is gaining in terms of its far-reaching education. As birth rates are cut, quality of life improves for the adult population in general, and people will be more inclined to stay home too.

A lot of immigration from south-west Asia is also due to a series of ongoing wars - if those end any time soon (and they will, when there's no oil to run tanks or fly fighter jets), immigration will cut down as well.

However, given that immigration, once more omitting those selectively sought, has had a malign effect upon English society, and no marked increase upon the economy solely by itself, surely it is a social ill?
I think you might be forgetting that the 'native' white population is actually a series of immigrants, from Scandinavia, the Germanic countries and France, as well as some Slavs, too.

England has always been a trading state, and there has always been a great variety of people flowing in and out of our land, for thousands of years.

Even if they did bring something, I still wouldnt want them around,

Yes NN, by now you've made it clear that you are a bigot who hates and fears immigrants, foreigners and non-whites.

for some reason beyond my control...

Until you're elected high chancellor of your nation, you'll find that pretty much everything is beyond your control.

...

What the hell is wrong with you? Where did Cameroi declare the U.S. some kind of fascist dictatorship? She merely said that chauvanistic monotheism is not a strength and that the EU is making some mistakes the U.S. made and she's right. Let's face it: the U.S. makes plenty of mistakes: electing Bush, for one. Multiculturalism is a good thing, so long as it's done properly. Obviously you can't just throw cultures together and expect things to work; it must be done gradually. Know the best way to accomplish that? Immigration over time.

The population of Europe will change; that much is a given. I fail, however, to see why the change is a bad thing. I'm not saying it's a good thing, since it can easily be neither, but I fail to see why it's bad.



WTF is wrong with you? I was taking a cheap shot at words by making fun of him and taking his statement to an extreme. Jeez.

Immigration will stop when enough people leave their homeland to free up resources for the remaining population, so that quality of life is raised inside the home state and people stay there.

In addition to this, across Africa and Asia, family planning is gaining in terms of its far-reaching education. As birth rates are cut, quality of life improves for the adult population in general, and people will be more inclined to stay home too.

A lot of immigration from south-west Asia is also due to a series of ongoing wars - if those end any time soon (and they will, when there's no oil to run tanks or fly fighter jets), immigration will cut down as well.

I wonder when will "enough people leave their homeland to free up resources for the remaining population". Many developing countries got really fast growing populations which will more than compansate the emigration they are giving..
Across Africa family planning still sucks, they are still having 6,7 children per women. Will this a trend that'll continue? Maybe not. But these are UN predictions:

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/1429/worldpopulationcf7.gif

Now I'm not saying it'll be Eurabia in 2100 FOR SURE. I'm just saying that it is a possibility you should accept, among others. Of course not among others like "machines will take over" but more like among "EU's powers will grow"....

Yes NN, by now you've made it clear that you are a bigot who hates and fears immigrants, foreigners and non-whites.



Until you're elected high chancellor of your nation, you'll find that pretty much everything is beyond your control.

LOL. You've said this like a hundred times already, seriously. Given your effort, I might as well agree to it, as a holidays present...

There will be no EU. The French will always have a reason for not joining. Eventually, there will be an Asian Hegemony, an Islamic Hegemony and a Pan-American Hegemony. England, Germany, possibly Israel and the Scandinavian Countries will be part of the Pan-American Hegemony. The rest of Europe, the Middle East, Africa and India will be in the Islamic Hegemony, Everything else will be Asian. There will be some tiny, independent holdouts who will survive because they have no resources and no one wants them.

There will be no EU. The French will always have a reason for not joining. Eventually, there will be an Asian Hegemony, an Islamic Hegemony and a Pan-American Hegemony. England, Germany, possibly Israel and the Scandinavian Countries will be part of the Pan-American Hegemony. The rest of Europe, the Middle East, Africa and India will be in the Islamic Hegemony, Everything else will be Asian. There will be some tiny, independent holdouts who will survive because they have no resources and no one wants them.

:D Like Monaco? Who wouldnt want Monaco :confused:

LOL. You've said this like a hundred times already, seriously. Given your effort, I might as well agree to it, as a holidays present...

Well, you've also said similar "blarh, immigrants are ICKY!" sentiments a hundred times too. I think you've used more effort in trying to justify your opinion than I have in merely asserting what is by now a well-known fact. :p

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/1429/worldpopulationcf7.gif

Odinsgaard I wouldn't trust that graph if I where you:
1) its 50 years out of date in 2100
2) 9450 million (?) by my math that population figure seems a tad funky IMHO

Eurabia

I'm confused what’s “Eurabia”?

I still have to wonder why a Eurabia would be so bad. I'm not seeing a downside unless people oppress the new immigrants because they think they'll become radical terrorists, thus ensuring that they become terrorists.

How do you think it'll turn out? Will EU become a federation and a superpower? (and change its name, I suppose) Will welfare states fall? Will capitalism fall? Will it become a "Eurabia"? Will it become "Fortress Europe"? Will it be just another continent, overshadowed by giants in Asia? What's your guesses?
It will likely not become a federation and certainly not a superpower. It can't even get a man into space.

The welfare states will fail because the people in the state won't be able to produce enough for the state to stay afloat even with oppressive taxes.

Capitalism will be around as long as there are things to be traded and people to trade them. It's based on human nature after all.

The EU will become a joke. It'll try to order around member states but like the UN will have very little real authority. It will become more and more overshadowed by rising stars in Asia like China and India. If I had to guess who the next superpower will be I'd say China with India being like another modern Japan (lot's of cheap office work and manufacturing).

It will likely not become a federation

here is where I started to doubt your intelligence

It can't even get a man into space.

and here is where I stopped reading...

The welfare states will fail because the people in the state won't be able to produce enough for the state to stay afloat even with oppressive taxes.

...well okay here by all means you could be showing the doubt on a welfare system in the future population if only it wasn’t a tremendous success and hugely profitable

The future of Europe depends on the answers to these questions:

How will Russia deal with its decline from power?
How will Europe deal with immigration?
How will they deal with economic, cultural, and legal integration?
What will Europe's relationship with the United States be like?
What will their relationship with the emerging powers of India and China be like?

The mindsets of the people of both Europe and the United States are going to shift significantly as the world changes. We are currently in a period of transition from the cold war, through a brief period of US dominance in world affairs, to a new period of multiple powers. When looking into the future you have to consider the way people's attitudes are going to change in response to social trends and look at societies as complex and dynamic systems rather than rigid structures producing inevitable results.

here is where I started to doubt your intelligence
A federation has a strong central government with authority over member states. A confederacy is a weak central government that could be described as a loose alliance of states. Confederations tend to be established for dealing with critical issues, such as defense, foreign affairs, foreign trade, and a common currency. The EU as it stands right now is a confederation not a federation. I doubt it will become a federation because some states may want to retain sovereignty.

...well okay here by all means you could be showing the doubt on a welfare system in the future population if only it wasn’t a tremendous success and hugely profitable
Uh, we've seen what the welfare system does to nations who use it excessively. The best example of the failure of the welfare states is that of the largest in history. I speak of the Сою́з Сове́тских Социалисти́ческих Респу́блик, CCCP (the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, USSR, more commonly known as the Soviet Union). Yes the Soviet Union was a welfare state. In fact everyone in the Soviet Union was on welfare. And then the Soviet economy failed and the nation collapsed. And a star goes out. And it's...symbolic.

And to answer you're question about Eurabia: it'd be a combination of European nations and Arabic nations of the middle east.

By the way, I hate Jolt.

I wonder when will "enough people leave their homeland to free up resources for the remaining population". Many developing countries got really fast growing populations which will more than compansate the emigration they are giving..
On the other hand, most of these lands are in almost-perpetual war, so the new children are being sent to the battlefield after about sixteen years of childhood, and there's nothing like a war to kill off your population, is there?
Across Africa family planning still sucks, they are still having 6,7 children per women. Will this a trend that'll continue? Maybe not.
It won't feasibly be done in a few years, when a great part of Africa will probably run very low indeed upon natural resources such as clean water and firewood, which is already happening to an extent in Sub-Saharan Africa.

There's also the issue of HIV/AIDS, which is infecting a growing number of people in Africa, too. When people start dying in droves (which probably will, sadly, occur) then there won't be enough men and women left to continue population growth at such rates.



There is also an increasing amount of family planning going on in Africa at the moment - it might take a generation to really take hold, but I personally think that birth rates will fall in Africa due to that, as well.
Now I'm not saying it'll be Eurabia in 2100 FOR SURE. I'm just saying that it is a possibility you should accept, among others. Of course not among others like "machines will take over" but more like among "EU's powers will grow"....
Yes, well I wouldn't particularly mind 'Eurabia', seeing as the culture and growth of most of Western Europe has dried up, at least for now. Maybe we actually need something new to kick-start a new age of discovery.

Uh, we've seen what the welfare system does to nations who use it excessively. The best example of the failure of the welfare states is that of the largest in history. I speak of the Сою́з Сове́тских Социалисти́ческих Респу́блик, CCCP (the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, USSR, more commonly known as the Soviet Union). Yes the Soviet Union was a welfare state. In fact everyone in the Soviet Union was on welfare. And then the Soviet economy failed and the nation collapsed. And a star goes out. And it's...symbolic.
Yes, it's symbolic of what happens to states that don't really adapt to their surroundings, and invest all of their authority in an extremely corrupt elite class.

Welfare states that have worked : Almost all of Western Europe is pretty nice, wouldn't you say?

That's because we know that there has to be a fairly sensible economic policy tied to a welfare system - you have to be economically fairly capitalist to gain enough money to make a welfare system work.

You can't really have universal healthcare on a shoestring budget brought about by extremely restrictive economic policy - but then if you leave things in the hands of economists, you often get the development of a private sector in terms of healthcare, which is still funded by the state, but without it really servicing the general public.

See Sweden - it has the longest life expectancy in the world, excellent education, and general happiness is actually pretty high despite the god-awful weather.

That's because it's combined very much socialist policies with a capitalist economy. And it's worked marvellously.

Hopefully the new government won't just ruin that with economic 'reforms'.

Yes, well I wouldn't particularly mind 'Eurabia', seeing as the culture and growth of most of Western Europe has dried up, at least for now.
I didn't think you were conservative.

Welfare states that have worked : Almost all of Western Europe is pretty nice, wouldn't you say?
No.

See Sweden - it has the longest life expectancy in the world, excellent education, and general happiness is actually pretty high despite the god-awful weather.
The people of Sweden have some of the highest taxes in the world and everyone is totally dependant on the government. What if that entity faulters even slightly or fails altogether? It's a balance of terror in my opinion.

That's because it's combined very much socialist policies with a capitalist economy. And it's worked marvellously.
That's your opinion.

You can't really have universal healthcare on a shoestring budget brought about by extremely restrictive economic policy - but then if you leave things in the hands of economists, you often get the development of a private sector in terms of healthcare, which is still funded by the state, but without it really servicing the general public.
If you leave things in the hands of the economists the people who work for or fund something reap the rewards of that thing first and everyone else gets whatever is left. That's how things should work, people getting something by working toward it. Didn't your parents ever teach you the story of the Little Red Hen when you were little? She may seem like a selfish bitch but her lazy friends did nothing to earn what she worked for even when given the opportunity.

When people don't have to work they won't. When the government provides for peoples every want and need they don't work for anything and stagnation sets in. Fewer and fewer people end up propping up the growing mass of sloth until they can no longer support it and the whole thing collapses.

That's the problem with the welfare state. It eventually implodes and becomes a drain on its surroundings. Free market economics, while painful in the shortrun, will sustain a society much longer than any socialist ideology.