NationStates Jolt Archive

On the first day of World War III, the United States lost two-thirds of its military and nearly half its population, yielding superiority to communist China. U.S. orders of the day were of high alert, and there is simply no evading the fact that we were not ready.
The Chinese rain of missiles on U.S. installations and homeland cities was a military masterpiece. The People's Liberation Army Second Artillery Corp achieved complete surprise, armed only with a small force of more than 300 tactical and 10 strategic missiles.

Defenseless against the attack, U.S. forces in Hawaii, Alaska, South Korea and Japan were quickly overwhelmed by the guided warheads of the Chinese missiles. The bombs plunged out of the inky blackness of space, striking within seconds of each other. The rain of death fell swiftly upon a sleeping America with precise and devastating accuracy.

In a span of little more than 30 minutes, China wiped out Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, San Diego, Chicago, Washington, Boston, New York, Hawaii, Manila, Seoul, Taipei and Tokyo.

China sank five U.S. carriers, seven Ohio class submarines, vaporized more than 200 MX and Minuteman missiles and destroyed more than 800 combat aircraft including 15 B-2 strategic bombers. The strikes also killed more than 100 million people without the loss of a single PLA soldier.

The Second Artillery succeeded by striking key U.S. bases, warships and air fields with a swift and bold attack. The attack left China with 10 remaining strategic missiles and nearly 300 tactical missiles, holding the devastated U.S. homeland hostage to another strike.

Despite the calls to retaliate, sending the scattered remains of U.S. nuclear forces against China would not stop another attack on America, nor would it stop the PLA Generals who ordered the first.

There is no question that the U.S. strategic missiles could devastate the Chinese homeland. However, killing hundreds of millions of innocent Chinese citizens would do little to deter the warlords in Beijing from launching the second wave of 10 missiles while remaining hidden inside bomb-proof tunnels.

China's sudden and brutal attack forced America to surrender on Beijing's terms. In little more than 48 hours, China won World War III.

No U.S. Defense Against Attack

Fiction? Then consider this fact: The United States has no defense against a missile attack. The U.S. has NO missile defense and is only testing a limited system that might stop one or two missiles.

Those who minimize the Chinese strategic forces frequently state that China has only 20 missiles. These people are fools playing games with the lives of millions of innocent humans. They fail to mention that each Chinese strategic missile is tipped with a multi-megaton H-bomb that can vaporize a city.

In the previous scenario, Chinese forces used only half their current strategic and tactical missiles in a single attack, turning 10 of the top U.S. cities and most of free Asia into charred, radioactive wastelands.

China apologists also question whether Beijing is willing to wage war against America. However, the Chinese military makes it very clear it wants nuclear combat with the U.S.A.

According to an August 1999 policy document published by the People's Liberation Army Office of the Central Military Command, "unlike Iraq and Yugoslavia, China is not only a big country, but also possesses a nuclear arsenal that has long since been incorporated into state warfare system and play a real role in our national defense."

"In comparison with the U.S. nuclear arsenal, our disadvantage is mainly numeric, which in real wars the qualitative gap will be reflected only as different requirement of strategic theory," states the PLA military document.

"In terms of deterrence, there is not any difference in practical value. So far we have built up the capability for the second and third nuclear strikes and are fairly confident in fighting a nuclear war. The PCC [communist Party Central Committee] has decided to pass though formal channels this message to the top leaders in the U.S."

China also has recently tested a new long-range missile capable of reaching America, the DF-31. The DF-31 is capable of delivering a single multi-megaton H-bomb or up to three 90-kiloton nuclear bombs. The most recent DF-31 test took place earlier this year, and some Pentagon analysts expect the PLA Second Artillery will begin active deployment of DF-31 units early next year.

1,000 Nuclear Missiles by 2006

Clearly, China apologists must seriously consider the growing capability of Beijing's nuclear missile forces, including the tremendous buildup of short-range tactical missiles. China continues to deploy short-range "Dong Feng" or "East Wind" missiles. China has a force of nearly 500 DF-15 and DF-11 mobile tactical missiles and at the current rate of production will have more than 1,000 missiles by 2006.

The Soviet Union and the U.S. considered the short-range tactical missile to be the most dangerous threat to peace because of its short flight time. Despite the tension between Moscow and Washington, both sides agreed to withdraw and ban the weapons. The Soviet SS-20 Saber and U.S. Pershing missiles were dismantled and destroyed.

It is worth noting that each Chinese DF-15 tactical missile has a flight time of less than four minutes, from launch to impact. Today, China dominates the tactical nuclear missile category and frequently demonstrates that fact. In 1996, China dropped dummy DF-15 warheads just off Taiwan's coastline.

Illegal Missile Exports to Pakistan

Nor are Chinese missiles limited strictly to China. According to documents obtained from the Clinton administration, China sold Pakistan 34 nuclear-tipped DF-11 missiles in 1992. The DF-11 missiles, exported as the M-11, are based at Sargodha air force base, west of Lahore, next to the Pakistani plutonium reactor at Khushab.

In August 1994, Ron Brown wrote a briefing document for Bernard Schwartz, CEO of Loral. That document is one of many from the withheld files of Ron Brown obtained by this author using the Freedom of Information Act. The document is a pre-China briefing report prepared for Loral CEO Bernard Schwartz in August 1994 by Commerce and is titled "Background Information".

"EXPORT CONTROLS. Last August [1993], the U.S. imposed sanctions on China for an M-11 missile-related transfer to Pakistan. On January 7, 1994 it was decided that although communications satellites licensed by the State Department are covered by the sanctions law, export licenses for communications satellites licensed by the Department of Commerce may be approved. Two such export licenses for communications satellites were recently approved by the Department of Commerce."

Rewarding Illegal Exports

Then-President Bill Clinton gave China a vast array of missile technology with the stroke of his pen despite the illegal DF-11 exports to Pakistan. The Chinese military obtained encrypted radiation hardened chips from Loral, post-boost vehicle technology from Lockheed, telemetry systems from Motorola and nose cone technology from Hughes. The Chinese generals made huge profits from the advanced rocket and satellite deals with America.

One of the main reasons why China continues to violate arms export treaties is because many of the Chinese leaders who signed the treaties also have a vested interest to break them. The Chinese generals that do the official arms negotiating also happen to own the same munitions factories that sell DF-11 missiles to Pakistan.

China is no longer a backward communist nation but a modern nuclear-armed fascist state, more closely resembling Francisco Franco's Spain with the bomb. Ownership is legal to a limited few. China has no conflict-of-interest laws. You can be a Chinese general, the rich owner of a major arms company and an arms control minister in the Chinese government all at the same time.

In 2001, Chinese DF-11 missile parts were spotted by satellite entering Pakistan. The violation should invoke economic and political sanctions according to MTCR missile treaties signed by Beijing. However, much like Loral's Bernard Schwartz in 1994, U.S. satellite makers are again anxious to restart exports to China by 2002.

No Calls for Sanctions

So far, there have been no calls from the White House or Congress to invoke sanctions against Beijing for violating the missile export treaties. None of the U.S. European allies, so outraged at American anti-missile tests, have uttered a word about Beijing's nuclear missile exports to Pakistan.

One way to slow the illegal sales from Beijing is to use the provisions in the MTCR treaties and invoke sanctions. The first and most useful signal that Washington could issue to Beijing is a firm "no" on the sale of U.S. satellites.

Another way to prevent World War III is to for America to build an anti-missile system as quickly as possible. The question of whether it will work may never be answered. However, a weapon never used in combat can be a success if only because it made victory in battle an uncertain verdict for dictators and tyrants.

What the fuck are you talking about?

I think you missed the point of MAD.
The whole idea is massive loss of life and property. No side is ment to 'win' everyone loses.

If you ignore the fact China and the USA aren't enemies, then yes, you're totally right.

But seriously, wtf?

I had a funny conversation with a college tutour, we concluded that because the west has become so plump, generally unfit and bone idle, as in no one knows a trade, prefering the dole scum council estate lifestyle that there wont be a war, rather mass immigration, so to that point, get of the forums and get back to work! Or its, "Hey China we need a few workmen old buddy, will you accept cash or London?"

NATO would respond. There's also a chance that Russia would too. China would be fucked.

Chinas' changing economy right now depends on the US and the rest of the west to purchase their never ending supply of goods and incorporate them into the modern world. I believe that a war between the west and the east would end in a very bloody and earth shattering stalemate.

...

Okay, now you're just being idiotic. You've given a lot of thought to this, clearly, but you miss several important facts:

1. The U.S. and Chinese economies are interconnected in ways that were previously impossible on an international scale. Take a look at everything in your bedroom, for instance. I'll bet you half the items say somewhere on them "Made in China."

2. The devestation this would wrought would lead to complete and total economic ruin for China.

3. There's no reason for China to go to war with the United States. They have, in fact, every reason NOT to.

And thats the end of that one. ;)

I am of the mindset that the United States should befriend and strengthen ties with China. China is a vibrant, strong, dynamic, and changing nation whereas our traditional European allies are growing stangant and are ridden with guilt and socialism. Europe will be overrun with anti-American secular socialist natives and muslim immigrants in no time. A 21st century America should be more closely allied with Australia, Canada, China, Japan, Mexico (along with Central America), New Zealand, South Korea, and Thailand. George Washington warned us against European alliances so long ago, those alliances eventually made us the world's superpower but it's high time to abandon continental Europe.

This is your 3rd, that I found, OP in regards to the downfall of America. It seems that you're hoping for America's downfall. It isn't going to happen atleast in my lifetime.

China has a ton of money invested in and through America. That would be like China gathering up a large portion of their money having a large bon fire, roasting marshmallows...for some reason that doesn't sound likely.

Merry Chrismas Everybody

Well, it's easy to say China is gonna win if they can somehow wipe out all this stuff surprisingly with 300 "tactical missiles". Because, as we all know, carrier groups and submarines are easy targets. :rolleyes:

What a silly thread!

I am of the mindset that the United States should befriend and strengthen ties with China. China is a vibrant, strong, dynamic, and changing nation whereas our traditional European allies are growing stangant and are ridden with guilt and socialism. Europe will be overrun with anti-American secular socialist natives and muslim immigrants in no time. A 21st century America should be more closely allied with Australia, Canada, China, Japan, Mexico (along with Central America), New Zealand, South Korea, and Thailand. George Washington warned us against European alliances so long ago, those alliances eventually made us the world's superpower but it's high time to abandon continental Europe.

Yeah okay. Bye.

I am of the mindset that the United States should befriend and strengthen ties with China. China is a vibrant, strong, dynamic, and changing nation whereas our traditional European allies are growing stangant and are ridden with guilt and socialism. Europe will be overrun with anti-American secular socialist natives and muslim immigrants in no time. A 21st century America should be more closely allied with Australia, Canada, China, Japan, Mexico (along with Central America), New Zealand, South Korea, and Thailand. George Washington warned us against European alliances so long ago, those alliances eventually made us the world's superpower but it's high time to abandon continental Europe.

At first I found myself agreeing with you, since I want to see the U.S. strengthen ties with everyone, as a peaceful world is always good. Then I realized where you were going with it, and I must say, it now simply amuses me more than anything else.

This thread is really funny. Good job, man.

...This was meant to be a joke, right? :rolleyes:

Nowadays, maintaining the economy is far more important than waging an all-out war against any country. China would win in a war against the US.

Could it happen in the future? Yes. But thenm the world would be diferent, and probabily the priorities of the countries would be diferent too.

Because, nowadays, China´s growth only helps the other countries in the world. They are buying everything we have and wanting more.

At first I found myself agreeing with you, since I want to see the U.S. strengthen ties with everyone, as a peaceful world is always good. Then I realized where you were going with it, and I must say, it now simply amuses me more than anything else.

Can you specify what you mean? I'm guessing you have some kind of objection to what I said either about anti-American socialists and muslims. I can see where that could be read to think that I believe those two groups contain all socialists and all muslims, this isn't the case, they only contain the members of those two groups that are in fact anti-American.

Can you specify what you mean? I'm guessing you have some kind of objection to what I said either about anti-American socialists and muslims. I can see where that could be read to think that I believe those two groups contain all socialists and all muslims, this isn't the case, they only contain the members of those two groups that are in fact anti-American.

What I disagree with is the idea that Europe will somehow be transformed by Muslim immigrants into some kind of Islamic theocracy as so many doomsayers like you proclaim, which is ridiculous. Most Muslim immigrants are not of the radical religious variation that seem to be plaguing the world as of late. Furthermore, you severely underestimate cultural identity in most if not all European nations.

Finally: who CARES if Europe's predominant religion becomes Islam instead of Christianity? It's not going to turn the world into some kind of nightmarish hell hole anymore than it already is.

I think you missed the point of MAD.
The whole idea is massive loss of life and property. No side is ment to 'win' everyone loses.

I think his point was that, in a fascist regime, massive loss of life is simply a strategic decision. The Chinese government could accept millions of deaths more easily than the US. MAD only works if both sides care equally.

I am of the mindset that the United States should befriend and strengthen ties with China. China is a vibrant, strong, dynamic, and changing nation whereas our traditional European allies are growing stangant and are ridden with guilt and socialism. Europe will be overrun with anti-American secular socialist natives and muslim immigrants in no time. A 21st century America should be more closely allied with Australia, Canada, China, Japan, Mexico (along with Central America), New Zealand, South Korea, and Thailand. George Washington warned us against European alliances so long ago, those alliances eventually made us the world's superpower but it's high time to abandon continental Europe.

Mwahahahaha. Yeah. Goodbye.

i have no idea what you are talking about, so here is a bunny with a pancake on its head. wait, where did I put it?

1. Copy-Pasting a whole article like this without a link is illegal under copyright law.

2. Why would China go to all the trouble of launching nuclear missiles at the US? They could simply sell off their state reserves (about $300 billion if I remember correctly) and cause the dollar to crash, destroying the US economy.

1. Copy-Pasting a whole article like this without a link is illegal under copyright law.

2. Why would China go to all the trouble of launching nuclear missiles at the US? They could simply sell off their state reserves (about $300 billion if I remember correctly) and cause the dollar to crash, destroying the US economy.

Hahahahahaha! You seriously believe this? Wow......



Ok all, if Chna really wanted to destroy US, they could, but they would also be nuked by ever other nation on the planet, INCLUDING the USA. Sorry, but when Nukes were created then and now, its purpose was to annilate EVERYTHING. Besides, as much as China is a communist/socialist state...it needs the USA, because their syetem is weak and needs to go to capitalism partially to survive....

I think his point was that, in a fascist regime, massive loss of life is simply a strategic decision. The Chinese government could accept millions of deaths more easily than the US. MAD only works if both sides care equally.

The level of destruction is not limeted to a few razed cities. I was thinking about the massive economic damage and the radiation killing most life on the planet.

why is this thread full of n00bs bashing every kind of socialism?

And we have already established in the 100+ threads that China can either pull all its assets out the U.S and cause the U.S to collapse (albeit China wouldn’t fair to well in that scenario either) or wait to outgrow the U.S and basically claim all the land its people want (one of the reasons I’m against Chinese democracy)

edit: why do we never see any E.U vs. US/ Russia vs. US threads?

why is this thread full of n00bs bashing every kind of socialism?

And we have already established in the 100+ threads that China can either pull all its assets out the U.S and cause the U.S to collapse (albeit China wouldn’t fair to well in that scenario either) or wait to outgrow the U.S and basically claim all the land it wants (one of the reasons I’m against Chinese democracy)


Why are we noobs? Because you know socialism is bad? Come now, if you truely think we are wrong, debate instead of calling us noobs, or are you infact scared that you are actually a noob?

Why are we noobs? Because you know socialism is bad? Come now, if you truely think we are wrong, debate instead of calling us noobs, or are you infact scared that you are actually a noob?

*sigh* so tell me why do the Nordic economies do so well, magic beans maybe?

Hahahahahaha! You seriously believe this? Wow......

I was wrong, China don't have $300 billion in their reserves.














They have over $1 trillion. (http://today.reuters.com/news/articleinvesting.aspx?type=bondsNews&storyID=2006-11-06T115059Z_01_PEK308264_RTRIDST_0_ECONOMY-CHINA-RESERVES-UPDATE-1.XML)

From the same article:

Analysts have cautioned that any major sell-off of dollar assets could cause the U.S. currency to plunge

Notice that they only need a "major" sell off to crash the dollar; imagine if they sold off all of their stocks. The Chinese reserves are predicted to hit $2 trillion by 2010. Care to rethink your position?

On the first day of World War III, the United States lost two-thirds of its military and nearly half its population, yielding superiority to communist China. U.S. orders of the day were of high alert, and there is simply no evading the fact that we were not ready.
The Chinese rain of missiles on U.S. installations and homeland cities was a military masterpiece. The People's Liberation Army Second Artillery Corp achieved complete surprise, armed only with a small force of more than 300 tactical and 10 strategic missiles.

Defenseless against the attack, U.S. forces in Hawaii, Alaska, South Korea and Japan were quickly overwhelmed by the guided warheads of the Chinese missiles. The bombs plunged out of the inky blackness of space, striking within seconds of each other. The rain of death fell swiftly upon a sleeping America with precise and devastating accuracy.

In a span of little more than 30 minutes, China wiped out Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, San Diego, Chicago, Washington, Boston, New York, Hawaii, Manila, Seoul, Taipei and Tokyo.

China sank five U.S. carriers, seven Ohio class submarines, vaporized more than 200 MX and Minuteman missiles and destroyed more than 800 combat aircraft including 15 B-2 strategic bombers. The strikes also killed more than 100 million people without the loss of a single PLA soldier.

The Second Artillery succeeded by striking key U.S. bases, warships and air fields with a swift and bold attack. The attack left China with 10 remaining strategic missiles and nearly 300 tactical missiles, holding the devastated U.S. homeland hostage to another strike.

Despite the calls to retaliate, sending the scattered remains of U.S. nuclear forces against China would not stop another attack on America, nor would it stop the PLA Generals who ordered the first.

There is no question that the U.S. strategic missiles could devastate the Chinese homeland. However, killing hundreds of millions of innocent Chinese citizens would do little to deter the warlords in Beijing from launching the second wave of 10 missiles while remaining hidden inside bomb-proof tunnels.

China's sudden and brutal attack forced America to surrender on Beijing's terms. In little more than 48 hours, China won World War III.

No U.S. Defense Against Attack

Fiction? Then consider this fact: The United States has no defense against a missile attack. The U.S. has NO missile defense and is only testing a limited system that might stop one or two missiles.

Those who minimize the Chinese strategic forces frequently state that China has only 20 missiles. These people are fools playing games with the lives of millions of innocent humans. They fail to mention that each Chinese strategic missile is tipped with a multi-megaton H-bomb that can vaporize a city.

In the previous scenario, Chinese forces used only half their current strategic and tactical missiles in a single attack, turning 10 of the top U.S. cities and most of free Asia into charred, radioactive wastelands.

China apologists also question whether Beijing is willing to wage war against America. However, the Chinese military makes it very clear it wants nuclear combat with the U.S.A.

According to an August 1999 policy document published by the People's Liberation Army Office of the Central Military Command, "unlike Iraq and Yugoslavia, China is not only a big country, but also possesses a nuclear arsenal that has long since been incorporated into state warfare system and play a real role in our national defense."

"In comparison with the U.S. nuclear arsenal, our disadvantage is mainly numeric, which in real wars the qualitative gap will be reflected only as different requirement of strategic theory," states the PLA military document.

"In terms of deterrence, there is not any difference in practical value. So far we have built up the capability for the second and third nuclear strikes and are fairly confident in fighting a nuclear war. The PCC [communist Party Central Committee] has decided to pass though formal channels this message to the top leaders in the U.S."

China also has recently tested a new long-range missile capable of reaching America, the DF-31. The DF-31 is capable of delivering a single multi-megaton H-bomb or up to three 90-kiloton nuclear bombs. The most recent DF-31 test took place earlier this year, and some Pentagon analysts expect the PLA Second Artillery will begin active deployment of DF-31 units early next year.

1,000 Nuclear Missiles by 2006

Clearly, China apologists must seriously consider the growing capability of Beijing's nuclear missile forces, including the tremendous buildup of short-range tactical missiles. China continues to deploy short-range "Dong Feng" or "East Wind" missiles. China has a force of nearly 500 DF-15 and DF-11 mobile tactical missiles and at the current rate of production will have more than 1,000 missiles by 2006.

The Soviet Union and the U.S. considered the short-range tactical missile to be the most dangerous threat to peace because of its short flight time. Despite the tension between Moscow and Washington, both sides agreed to withdraw and ban the weapons. The Soviet SS-20 Saber and U.S. Pershing missiles were dismantled and destroyed.

It is worth noting that each Chinese DF-15 tactical missile has a flight time of less than four minutes, from launch to impact. Today, China dominates the tactical nuclear missile category and frequently demonstrates that fact. In 1996, China dropped dummy DF-15 warheads just off Taiwan's coastline.

Illegal Missile Exports to Pakistan

Nor are Chinese missiles limited strictly to China. According to documents obtained from the Clinton administration, China sold Pakistan 34 nuclear-tipped DF-11 missiles in 1992. The DF-11 missiles, exported as the M-11, are based at Sargodha air force base, west of Lahore, next to the Pakistani plutonium reactor at Khushab.

In August 1994, Ron Brown wrote a briefing document for Bernard Schwartz, CEO of Loral. That document is one of many from the withheld files of Ron Brown obtained by this author using the Freedom of Information Act. The document is a pre-China briefing report prepared for Loral CEO Bernard Schwartz in August 1994 by Commerce and is titled "Background Information".

"EXPORT CONTROLS. Last August [1993], the U.S. imposed sanctions on China for an M-11 missile-related transfer to Pakistan. On January 7, 1994 it was decided that although communications satellites licensed by the State Department are covered by the sanctions law, export licenses for communications satellites licensed by the Department of Commerce may be approved. Two such export licenses for communications satellites were recently approved by the Department of Commerce."

Rewarding Illegal Exports

Then-President Bill Clinton gave China a vast array of missile technology with the stroke of his pen despite the illegal DF-11 exports to Pakistan. The Chinese military obtained encrypted radiation hardened chips from Loral, post-boost vehicle technology from Lockheed, telemetry systems from Motorola and nose cone technology from Hughes. The Chinese generals made huge profits from the advanced rocket and satellite deals with America.

One of the main reasons why China continues to violate arms export treaties is because many of the Chinese leaders who signed the treaties also have a vested interest to break them. The Chinese generals that do the official arms negotiating also happen to own the same munitions factories that sell DF-11 missiles to Pakistan.

China is no longer a backward communist nation but a modern nuclear-armed fascist state, more closely resembling Francisco Franco's Spain with the bomb. Ownership is legal to a limited few. China has no conflict-of-interest laws. You can be a Chinese general, the rich owner of a major arms company and an arms control minister in the Chinese government all at the same time.

In 2001, Chinese DF-11 missile parts were spotted by satellite entering Pakistan. The violation should invoke economic and political sanctions according to MTCR missile treaties signed by Beijing. However, much like Loral's Bernard Schwartz in 1994, U.S. satellite makers are again anxious to restart exports to China by 2002.

No Calls for Sanctions

So far, there have been no calls from the White House or Congress to invoke sanctions against Beijing for violating the missile export treaties. None of the U.S. European allies, so outraged at American anti-missile tests, have uttered a word about Beijing's nuclear missile exports to Pakistan.

One way to slow the illegal sales from Beijing is to use the provisions in the MTCR treaties and invoke sanctions. The first and most useful signal that Washington could issue to Beijing is a firm "no" on the sale of U.S. satellites.

Another way to prevent World War III is to for America to build an anti-missile system as quickly as possible. The question of whether it will work may never be answered. However, a weapon never used in combat can be a success if only because it made victory in battle an uncertain verdict for dictators and tyrants.

While I want a missle defence system for America, I doubt any major country would ever attack the US on account that it would lead to their utter ruin.

The major part you seemed to leave out of your rant is that America has around 9,000 more nuclear weapons than China does. In the ever so unlikely event of a nuclear attack by China, half our population might die but ALL of their people will be incinerated.

What I disagree with is the idea that Europe will somehow be transformed by Muslim immigrants into some kind of Islamic theocracy as so many doomsayers like you proclaim, which is ridiculous. Most Muslim immigrants are not of the radical religious variation that seem to be plaguing the world as of late. Furthermore, you severely underestimate cultural identity in most if not all European nations.

Finally: who CARES if Europe's predominant religion becomes Islam instead of Christianity? It's not going to turn the world into some kind of nightmarish hell hole anymore than it already is.

I'm not that big a fan of Christianity, but I know where not to be if I want to avoid mixing it up with the crazy elements of Christianity. The crazy elements of Islam don't give me the benefit of letting me staying away from them in peace, they'll do whatever it takes to kill me.

Also, I don't don't know if Europe will transform into an Islamic theocracy, but a massive shift from vaguely Christian to hardcore Muslim will be reflected in how people vote and what national policies are and will probably make the United Nations an unpleasant place to be for the United States, China, and others.

Please read: http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Northrop_Grumman_Develops_Skyguard_Laser_Defense_System_For_Local_Defense_999.html for defense against Nuclear missiles.

Also take into account early warning systems from satellites, a new american technology to blind satellites, nuclear submarines deployed at seas capable of second strike, and the fact that according to multiple studies it only takes 500 megatons of nuclear warheads to cause nuclear winter.

*fap fap fap*

That's what the first post was.

I think his point was that, in a fascist regime, massive loss of life is simply a strategic decision. The Chinese government could accept millions of deaths more easily than the US. MAD only works if both sides care equally.


The government of the PRC doesn't give a damn about it's people, but it does give a damn about staying in power, and an effective American nuclear response, carried out by Trident Missiles launched from US Ohio Class nuclear submarines would remove their ability to exercise power over anything more than a sealed bunker.

I'm not that big a fan of Christianity, but I know where not to be if I want to avoid mixing it up with the crazy elements of Christianity. The crazy elements of Islam don't give me the benefit of letting me staying away from them in peace, they'll do whatever it takes to kill me.

Also, I don't don't know if Europe will transform into an Islamic theocracy, but a massive shift from vaguely Christian to hardcore Muslim will be reflected in how people vote and what national policies are and will probably make the United Nations an unpleasant place to be for the United States, China, and others.
I can certainly see that being a possibility, but I don't think it's as much of one as you fear. The radical elements of Islam are only as strong as we let them be, really. Half of their support and power comes from the idiocy we've expressed towards the Middle East, especially during the past six years with Bush in power. We act diplomatically friendly towards them, help them out, then all we have to do is watch and laugh as those radicals start losing power and support all over the place. Fact is, they'd probably do exactly what they're doing now even if they didn't have Islam to back it up with. Islam is being used as a shield and a reason to hold up, nothing more. Islam itself is not going to destroy anything, much like Christianity itself does not. I guarentee you, were the religions reversed, we'd see things being no different in the world today. It's our actions that cause the problem, not Islam.

*fap fap fap*

That's what the first post was.

Are you saying the first post was just a metaphorical "fapping" to the idea of the U.S. falling to China...

...or that you fapped to the first post :(

The chances of the PRC catching the US military by surprise with a nuclear attack and having terms dictated to them are practically nil. As soon as a large Chinese strike was launched, thousands of US warheads would be on their way to China. In addition, the British and French arsenals would presumably be launched at the Chinese if their NATO ally was hit with a nuclear attack.

The chances of the PRC catching the US military by surprise with a nuclear attack and having terms dictated to them are practically nil. As soon as a large Chinese strike was launched, thousands of US warheads would be on their way to China. In addition, the British and French arsenals would presumably be launched at the Chinese if their NATO ally was hit with a nuclear attack.

Exactly.

I was wrong, China don't have $300 billion in their reserves.














They have over $1 trillion. (http://today.reuters.com/news/articleinvesting.aspx?type=bondsNews&storyID=2006-11-06T115059Z_01_PEK308264_RTRIDST_0_ECONOMY-CHINA-RESERVES-UPDATE-1.XML)

From the same article:



Notice that they only need a "major" sell off to crash the dollar; imagine if they sold off all of their stocks. The Chinese reserves are predicted to hit $2 trillion by 2010. Care to rethink your position?

What position? You didnt read my whole post did you? I laughed because China WONT do any of that, it would be suicide. I agree with you they would make us ruined in ways, but they would ALSO ruin themselves, so THAT is why i laughed.

On the first day of World War III, the United States lost two-thirds of its military and nearly half its population, yielding superiority to communist China. U.S. orders of the day were of high alert, and there is simply no evading the fact that we were not ready.
The Chinese rain of missiles on U.S. installations and homeland cities was a military masterpiece. The People's Liberation Army Second Artillery Corp achieved complete surprise, armed only with a small force of more than 300 tactical and 10 strategic missiles.

Defenseless against the attack, U.S. forces in Hawaii, Alaska, South Korea and Japan were quickly overwhelmed by the guided warheads of the Chinese missiles. The bombs plunged out of the inky blackness of space, striking within seconds of each other. The rain of death fell swiftly upon a sleeping America with precise and devastating accuracy.
In a span of little more than 30 minutes, China wiped out Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, San Diego, Chicago, Washington, Boston, New York, Hawaii, Manila, Seoul, Taipei and Tokyo.

China sank five U.S. carriers, seven Ohio class submarines, vaporized more than 200 MX and Minuteman missiles and destroyed more than 800 combat aircraft including 15 B-2 strategic bombers. The strikes also killed more than 100 million people without the loss of a single PLA soldier.

The Second Artillery succeeded by striking key U.S. bases, warships and air fields with a swift and bold attack. The attack left China with 10 remaining strategic missiles and nearly 300 tactical missiles, holding the devastated U.S. homeland hostage to another strike.

Despite the calls to retaliate, sending the scattered remains of U.S. nuclear forces against China would not stop another attack on America, nor would it stop the PLA Generals who ordered the first.

There is no question that the U.S. strategic missiles could devastate the Chinese homeland. However, killing hundreds of millions of innocent Chinese citizens would do little to deter the warlords in Beijing from launching the second wave of 10 missiles while remaining hidden inside bomb-proof tunnels.

China's sudden and brutal attack forced America to surrender on Beijing's terms. In little more than 48 hours, China won World War III.

No U.S. Defense Against Attack

There are several fundamental flaws in that scenario.

1) There's no reason for the PRC to attack the US out of the blue. And if tensions
2) PLA IRBMs don't have the range to hit the CONUS.
3) Retaliation is basically automatic in the system.


Fiction? Then consider this fact: The United States has no defense against a missile attack. The U.S. has NO missile defense and is only testing a limited system that might stop one or two missiles.

Those who minimize the Chinese strategic forces frequently state that China has only 20 missiles. These people are fools playing games with the lives of millions of innocent humans. They fail to mention that each Chinese strategic missile is tipped with a multi-megaton H-bomb that can vaporize a city.

In the previous scenario, Chinese forces used only half their current strategic and tactical missiles in a single attack, turning 10 of the top U.S. cities and most of free Asia into charred, radioactive wastelands.

China apologists also question whether Beijing is willing to wage war against America. However, the Chinese military makes it very clear it wants nuclear combat with the U.S.A.

According to an August 1999 policy document published by the People's Liberation Army Office of the Central Military Command, "unlike Iraq and Yugoslavia, China is not only a big country, but also possesses a nuclear arsenal that has long since been incorporated into state warfare system and play a real role in our national defense."

"In comparison with the U.S. nuclear arsenal, our disadvantage is mainly numeric, which in real wars the qualitative gap will be reflected only as different requirement of strategic theory," states the PLA military document.

"In terms of deterrence, there is not any difference in practical value. So far we have built up the capability for the second and third nuclear strikes and are fairly confident in fighting a nuclear war. The PCC [communist Party Central Committee] has decided to pass though formal channels this message to the top leaders in the U.S."

China also has recently tested a new long-range missile capable of reaching America, the DF-31. The DF-31 is capable of delivering a single multi-megaton H-bomb or up to three 90-kiloton nuclear bombs. The most recent DF-31 test took place earlier this year, and some Pentagon analysts expect the PLA Second Artillery will begin active deployment of DF-31 units early next year.

1,000 Nuclear Missiles by 2006

Clearly, China apologists must seriously consider the growing capability of Beijing's nuclear missile forces, including the tremendous buildup of short-range tactical missiles. China continues to deploy short-range "Dong Feng" or "East Wind" missiles. China has a force of nearly 500 DF-15 and DF-11 mobile tactical missiles and at the current rate of production will have more than 1,000 missiles by 2006.

The Soviet Union and the U.S. considered the short-range tactical missile to be the most dangerous threat to peace because of its short flight time. Despite the tension between Moscow and Washington, both sides agreed to withdraw and ban the weapons. The Soviet SS-20 Saber and U.S. Pershing missiles were dismantled and destroyed.

It is worth noting that each Chinese DF-15 tactical missile has a flight time of less than four minutes, from launch to impact. Today, China dominates the tactical nuclear missile category and frequently demonstrates that fact. In 1996, China dropped dummy DF-15 warheads just off Taiwan's coastline.

Illegal Missile Exports to Pakistan

Nor are Chinese missiles limited strictly to China. According to documents obtained from the Clinton administration, China sold Pakistan 34 nuclear-tipped DF-11 missiles in 1992. The DF-11 missiles, exported as the M-11, are based at Sargodha air force base, west of Lahore, next to the Pakistani plutonium reactor at Khushab.

In August 1994, Ron Brown wrote a briefing document for Bernard Schwartz, CEO of Loral. That document is one of many from the withheld files of Ron Brown obtained by this author using the Freedom of Information Act. The document is a pre-China briefing report prepared for Loral CEO Bernard Schwartz in August 1994 by Commerce and is titled "Background Information".

"EXPORT CONTROLS. Last August [1993], the U.S. imposed sanctions on China for an M-11 missile-related transfer to Pakistan. On January 7, 1994 it was decided that although communications satellites licensed by the State Department are covered by the sanctions law, export licenses for communications satellites licensed by the Department of Commerce may be approved. Two such export licenses for communications satellites were recently approved by the Department of Commerce."

Rewarding Illegal Exports

Then-President Bill Clinton gave China a vast array of missile technology with the stroke of his pen despite the illegal DF-11 exports to Pakistan. The Chinese military obtained encrypted radiation hardened chips from Loral, post-boost vehicle technology from Lockheed, telemetry systems from Motorola and nose cone technology from Hughes. The Chinese generals made huge profits from the advanced rocket and satellite deals with America.

One of the main reasons why China continues to violate arms export treaties is because many of the Chinese leaders who signed the treaties also have a vested interest to break them. The Chinese generals that do the official arms negotiating also happen to own the same munitions factories that sell DF-11 missiles to Pakistan.

China is no longer a backward communist nation but a modern nuclear-armed fascist state, more closely resembling Francisco Franco's Spain with the bomb. Ownership is legal to a limited few. China has no conflict-of-interest laws. You can be a Chinese general, the rich owner of a major arms company and an arms control minister in the Chinese government all at the same time.

In 2001, Chinese DF-11 missile parts were spotted by satellite entering Pakistan. The violation should invoke economic and political sanctions according to MTCR missile treaties signed by Beijing. However, much like Loral's Bernard Schwartz in 1994, U.S. satellite makers are again anxious to restart exports to China by 2002.

No Calls for Sanctions

So far, there have been no calls from the White House or Congress to invoke sanctions against Beijing for violating the missile export treaties. None of the U.S. European allies, so outraged at American anti-missile tests, have uttered a word about Beijing's nuclear missile exports to Pakistan.

One way to slow the illegal sales from Beijing is to use the provisions in the MTCR treaties and invoke sanctions. The first and most useful signal that Washington could issue to Beijing is a firm "no" on the sale of U.S. satellites.

Another way to prevent World War III is to for America to build an anti-missile system as quickly as possible. The question of whether it will work may never be answered. However, a weapon never used in combat can be a success if only because it made victory in battle an uncertain verdict for dictators and tyrants.

So all that (misleading, scaremongering) mess to say you want sanctions on our biggest trading partner?

This is so stupid...


Don't you remember Hiroshima, Nagasaki???

This is so stupid...


Don't you remember Hiroshima, Nagasaki???

What's up with you and Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and what does any of that have to do with this?