NationStates Jolt Archive

That is, why do some (dispropotionatly conservative) people fight so hard against the very idea that global warming exists, and that human activity, especially over the last 200 years, has accelerated it? Why nit pick over the methods in which it is researched when there are over 1000 peer reviewed studies that show a proponderance of evidence, no matter the methods? The only reason that makes sense to me is that is that it gives them something to direct anger and hatred at, and gives them an excuse to stay angry about SOMETHING.

Thoughts?

I know global warming is happening, and I know humans have contributed to it. I just don't think it's going to be that big of a deal. Remember how they had everyone freaking out over Bird Flu, Sars, and the Y2K thing? I think the consequences of global warming have been similarly exaggerated. But then I'm an optimist.

That is, why do some (dispropotionatly conservative) people fight so hard against the very idea that global warming exists, and that human activity, especially over the last 200 years, has accelerated it? Why nit pick over the methods in which it is researched when there are over 1000 peer reviewed studies that show a proponderance of evidence, no matter the methods? The only reason that makes sense to me is that is that it gives them something to direct anger and hatred at, and gives them an excuse to stay angry about SOMETHING.

Thoughts?

Money, it's all to do with money (usually)

My opinion on it is that, yes the Earth goes through the warming/cooling cycles, but it's warming at an alarmingly abnormal rate. I assume that's a reasonable view, yes?

Anyway, what can we do? I mean, we fucked ourselves over with the Ozone layer, and unless it's rebuilding itself--which I heard once, but don't know anything about it--aren't we fighting an uphill battle?

simple fact: I really don't care enough to change my life so that my grandkids have to suffer instead of my kids

I know global warming is happening, and I know humans have contributed to it. I just don't think it's going to be that big of a deal. Remember how they had everyone freaking out over Bird Flu, Sars, and the Y2K thing? I think the consequences of global warming have been similarly exaggerated. But then I'm an optimist.
Yeah, but we took steps to prevent SARS, Furd Flu and Y2K from becoming a problem. Instead of taking steps to tackle the problem of climate change, we are still pumping out thousands of m^3 of C02.

Anyway, what can we do? I mean, we fucked ourselves over with the Ozone layer, and unless it's rebuilding itself--which I heard once, but don't know anything about it--aren't we fighting an uphill battle?

The ozone layer is constantly being destroyed and rebuilt. What we did is speed the rate of which it was destroyed. It'll heal eventually though.

Global warming is one of the strongest arguments against capitalism today. If it is true, it basically means that unbridled economic production (which has been the driving force for improved standards of living in the last couple hundred years) is actually destroying the planet. Hydesland is right in saying it's all about money, but that doesn't mean the people who are skeptical of global warming are evil: it just means they don't like the idea of putting huge constraints on the economy without knowing with a great deal of certainty that the constraints are necessary.

Money, it's all to do with money (usually)

Lies! Sure, the money is great, but what is really at stake is freedom™. People, these "scientists" have already pulled a fast one on you with that "tobacco causes cancer" hokey. Don't let them take away your right to pollute! :D

Global warming is one of the strongest arguments against capitalism today. If it is true, it basically means that unbridled economic production (which has been the driving force for improved standards of living in the last couple hundred years) is actually destroying the planet. Hydesland is right in saying it's all about money, but that doesn't mean the people who are skeptical of global warming are evil: it just means they don't like the idea of putting huge constraints on the economy without knowing with a great deal of certainty that the constraints are necessary.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think people are "evil" for not believing that global warming is real. I think they're wantonly delusional, but not evil per se. Though there seems to be a hand in hand relationship between people who I can't stand for various other reasons, and the anti-global warming stance.

EDIT: and how does the over 1000 peer reviewed studies I mentioned in the OP not constitute a reasonable degree of certainty?

My opinion on it is that, yes the Earth goes through the warming/cooling cycles, but it's warming at an alarmingly abnormal rate. I assume that's a reasonable view, yes?

Anyway, what can we do? I mean, we fucked ourselves over with the Ozone layer, and unless it's rebuilding itself--which I heard once, but don't know anything about it--aren't we fighting an uphill battle?

Yes the ozone hole is closing up. No, it doesn't have anything to do with global warming. In fact, when CFCs were banned as propellant gasses in aerosol cans they were replaced with gasses that contribute to the greenhouse effect. In order to stop damaging the ozone layer we accelerated the process of global warming.

Yeah, but we took steps to prevent SARS, Furd Flu and Y2K from becoming a problem. Instead of taking steps to tackle the problem of climate change, we are still pumping out thousands of m^3 of C02.
Steps are being taken. New, cleaner technologies are being developed.

Don't look at me, I only drive my car when school is out, because there's no other way to get to town. When I need to go somewhere when I'm at school, I take the bus, and I take the train home for the breaks. If I had my way I wouldn't own a car.

That is, why do some (dispropotionatly conservative) people fight so hard against the very idea that global warming exists, and that human activity, especially over the last 200 years, has accelerated it? Why nit pick over the methods in which it is researched when there are over 1000 peer reviewed studies that show a proponderance of evidence, no matter the methods? The only reason that makes sense to me is that is that it gives them something to direct anger and hatred at, and gives them an excuse to stay angry about SOMETHING.

Thoughts?

i'd say it's because the people leading the conservatives are smart and evil, while their followers are dumb and repeat any fool thing the bosses tell them. especially when it can somehow be used to attack 'liberals'.

and global warming plays right in on several levels. firstly, it's environmental - which means hippies. the right in usia just can't get over hippies. secondly, it's pushed by scientists - which are a bunch of ivory tower elitists lording it over us or something. "i don't need none of that fancy pants 'reading' stuff". thirdly, it's global, which means foreigners. and we hates brown people. and finally, it seems like the only way to deal with it is to stop people from driving hummers that get 7 mpg. and that's clearly fucking communism.

That is, why do some (dispropotionatly conservative) people fight so hard against the very idea that global warming exists, and that human activity, especially over the last 200 years, has accelerated it? Why nit pick over the methods in which it is researched when there are over 1000 peer reviewed studies that show a proponderance of evidence, no matter the methods? The only reason that makes sense to me is that is that it gives them something to direct anger and hatred at, and gives them an excuse to stay angry about SOMETHING.

Thoughts?

My problem with global warming is the press it's getting. This brouhaha over global warming is stifling environmental issues that CAN be controlled, CAN be measured, predicted and most imprortantly, verified. There is so much we can be doing to improve our knowledge of our environment, our impact on it and our ability to influence it. Instead, we're inundated by self-important climatologists with horror stories based on models that won't be confirmed as accurate for at least a century. Oh, but of course, we can't wait that long, can we? We have to take their word for it and fight global warming now(thus negating their predictions). Considering the disastrous results experts have caused trying to manage ecosystems like Yellowstone National Park and the Everglades, you'll pardon me if I shake in uncontrolled horror at the idea of 'experts' fucking around with global climate, won't you?

Can someone say Snowball Earth 2?

disproportionately conservative people fight so hard against the very idea that global warming exists because and the are generalities but I believe they are for the most part true IMO.

1-money/selfish-conservatives are generally speaking hard line capitalists, nothing must come between them and they're bottom line, profit.

2-conservatives are generally more likely hard line religious fundamentals, they abhor science, science is a threat to their cherished belief system, so they debunk anything scientific...

For those who think Global warming is only a mild inconvenience think again-look up "runaway greenhouse". This is potentially in 100-200yrs the end of civilization we take a huge risk in ignoring it.

Ozone-the holes in the Ozone has never been bigger but action was taken by banning CFC's, scientists now predicted the worst has come and the holes should begin decreasing in size...one estimate is that it will be back to normal in about 30yrs....

That is, why do some (dispropotionatly conservative) people fight so hard against the very idea that global warming exists, and that human activity, especially over the last 200 years, has accelerated it? Why nit pick over the methods in which it is researched when there are over 1000 peer reviewed studies that show a proponderance of evidence, no matter the methods? The only reason that makes sense to me is that is that it gives them something to direct anger and hatred at, and gives them an excuse to stay angry about SOMETHING.

Thoughts?
No, I think that right-wing skepticism about global warming is slightly more rational than that. They probably fear (foolishly) that acknowledging human influence on global climate is the first step to communism.

1-money/selfish-conservatives are generally speaking hard line capitalists, nothing must come between them and they're bottom line, profit.

2-conservatives are generally more likely hard line religious fundamentals, they abhor science, science is a threat to their cherished belief system, so they debunk anything scientific...
1. Absolutely right.

2. Absolutely wrong. The Bible instructs us that we are to love God by loving His creation. It also instructs us that as humans we are entrusted with the authority to care for it, not rape it.

So, basically, from wht I've seen of the responses, it's all about people who are either greedy, or mindless followers? How come this issue can't be separated from the bat shit crazy idea that it's somehow a buch of hippies trying to repudiate people's lifestyle. It's really not about that. What it IS about is the idea that though the effects will be unnoticable in the short term, they do exist, and it's slowly making the world into a place that won't support human life. And, that there are ways to begin bringing these effects under control with only a little effort. If it's about money, why not be at the forefront of developing these methods, and make a killing?

So, basically, from wht I've seen of the responses, it's all about people who are either greedy, or mindless followers? How come this issue can't be separated from the bat shit crazy idea that it's somehow a bunch of hippies trying to repudiate people's lifestyle.
See the "hippies" don't think that greed is good, so it really is about greed.

And, that there are ways to begin bringing these effects under control with only a little effort. If it's about money, why not be at the forefront of developing these methods, and make a killing?
I don't know. At the moment I'll just say, intellectual laziness.

If you dont understand global warming, you´re an incredible fool.

It takes the minimun knowledge in chemistry to be able to understand global warming. It only takes the most basic understand of chemistry, said hundreds of years ago through Lauvoisier words saying "in nature, nothing is created, nothing is destroyed; everything transforms".

You take millions, billions of galons of petroleun and transform it into gas. And you burn it, in cars, factories, energy plants. Every litter produces energy that is not used, and goes to the atmosphere.

That energy doesnt vanish. It stays here. And energy is heat. And it increases the atmosphere temperature, changing the global climate.

Anyone that has traveled a bit over the world knows that the world is not endless. In fact, I think the world is quite small, considering all the things we are doing to fuck it up. So, yes, humans have an effect on the world, and this effect is far greater than anything we have ever done. The industry hasnt been around for more than 300 years, but that doesnt mean that in such a short ammount of time we cant release such a huge amount of energy in the atmosphere that it will really change the climate, and not in a pleasant way.

1. Absolutely right.

2. Absolutely wrong. The Bible instructs us that we are to love God by loving His creation. It also instructs us that as humans we are entrusted with the authority to care for it, not rape it.

2-I don't say they are doing it deliberately but that's the end result.....from my own unscientific study and noticed that many with strongest resistance to Global warming seem very often to come from creationist types.....nothing to show you no links or surveys just my personal observations....

If it's about money, why not be at the forefront of developing these methods, and make a killing?

correct there are billions to be made in cleaning the mess up......problem is those who are making billions in polluting industries don't want to give up what they have for something they have no stake in.......

2-I don't say they are doing it deliberately but that's the end result.....from my own unscientific study and noticed that many with strongest resistance to Global warming seem very often to come from creationist types.....nothing to show you no links or surveys just my personal observations....
I'm a Christian and I've never even met a creationist. The creation story of the Bible is obviously not meant to be read literally.

Considering the disastrous results experts have caused trying to manage ecosystems like Yellowstone National Park and the Everglades, you'll pardon me if I shake in uncontrolled horror at the idea of 'experts' fucking around with global climate, won't you?

best leave it to those with a vested interest in fucking things up then, yeah?

If you dont understand global warming, you´re an incredible fool.
...
You take millions, billions of galons of petroleun and transform it into gas. And you burn it, in cars, factories, energy plants. Every litter produces energy that is not used, and goes to the atmosphere.

That energy doesnt vanish. It stays here. And energy is heat. And it increases the atmosphere temperature, changing the global climate.

please please please don't ever say things like this again. that's so not right that it's barely wrong.

I'm a Christian and I've never even met a creationist. The creation story of the Bible is obviously not meant to be read literally.

You don't live in the anti-intellectual capital of the world, AKA the U.S.A.

You don't live in the anti-intellectual capital of the world, AKA the U.S.A.
No, I don't and neither does Socialist Pyrates.