NationStates Jolt Archive

Hi, living in Sweden I usually get most of the news from our national medias although I sometimes read news from UK and USA. Now I have a question about perception of US media and government by you living in the US (and therefor mostly adress you all americans).

Last night I saw a documentory about war and media, (The swedish title was: "USA, war and television"). Anyway, it raised alot of questions in my mind on how americans perceive their media and their freedom of speech. Do they trust their embedded journalists? Do they think their media is objective and, more importantly, really employ critical journalism?

I can not say im a political or journalistic expert and I certanly do not accept nor embrace everything I saw in the documentory last night. And there sure is alot of voices in the news and on television that critize US forreign politics. Now with that said I can continue with some of the questions I wonder how the americans perveive them themselves:
-Lynch (kind of old story but anyway), the non-rescue-rescue-story. What do the americans think of this? Why are not the american people, the crusaders of freedom of speech and democracy, not demanding heads to roll (maybe they did to some extent but it sure was not the rage that would have become in peaceful little sweden)? Some of the media, military personel and politics knew it was not so serious, at all, as the first picture of the situation presented it as... wierd...

-The fall of Saddam statue, it was a nice event and great tv, but do the american people it was staged, as the dramatic and wonderful scene it was presented as? That hundreds of the liberated Iraqi people, with the help of the US marines, tare down the statue of the dictator in under festive circumstances - also that was not entirely true...

-The fireing of journalists that wanted to publish pictures of civilian casulties (first Iraq-war) both in CBS and NBC - also this in the land of the free and democratic. Just not the picture I got of USA (even though I am a bit suspicious to the autencity (it was only two interviews that supported it). But also in this war the media dont report about the civilian, or american (for that matter), casulties, at least not as true freedom of speech-loving journalists. Burnt child carcasses and bombed out refugees...

-Why does it seem to be a unpatriotic act to critize the war, and the medias representation of the war (maybe wars)? I really dont get that...

-This is probably a (more) stupid question (maybe I can find this answer somewhere else but I really would like the view from some americans): why does usa support israel so blindly in the troublesome palestinian-israel war? Both sides commit crimes against humanity, (it seems that the american people only see the palestinians as evil) (I dont want a lecture in the crimes of either side, just the americans view of the israeli support)...

-Guantanamo, terrorists, human rights, legal system... democracy... it does not really add up, how is it perceived in USA? America is about freedom, mostly, right to carry own guns and freedom of speech and so on, hate towards authoritian governments communism and fascism: but why accept an autoritian rule, cover ups and compromise the legal system with fair trials... its like every distopian authors scenario! Your are proud over your democracy, nation and freedom - why compromise it? The goal justifies the means?

Well i think thats about it... sry for the long post, I hope someone takes the time to at least answer some of the questions and shedd some light over my view of America and the americans :D

We know the media is lying and hyping things for ratings. It doesn't surprise us when we find out they've made crap up.

Your documentary apparently shows a unified American perspective for all 300 million of us. That's simply not the case. The generalizations in this post are no more accurate for us than if we described all Swedes as long-legged, big-breasted blonde 22-year-old beauties. (I'm sure there are some 30+ Swedes with big breasts too. Maybe even some men.)

I think it's safe to say that an awful lot of us doubt our media, and most of that group have serious doubts about our government.

Stupid people tend to confuse nationalism with patriotism. We're not all stupid.

As for the rest, well ... you're covering a lot of ground, and not particularly clearly. Perhaps you should read and reply to some of the individual threads in these forums instead of pulling all the topics into a single thread.

Your documentary apparently shows a unified American perspective for all 300 million of us.

Thanks for quick answers, but just to make it clear once and for all. The documentory didnt mention the american people as unifiend at all, it covered a bit of the opinions raised during the vietnam war, and that the first Iraq war was not a political success (the president lost the election a couple of monts after even), other than that it covered most the relationship between television, military and politics - and nothing about the american people in general, my views of the opinions of the american people are mostly from other sources and I am very well aware of many opinions of the political spectra in america, but surely not an expert, or even close... ;)

And I am well aware that requesting views from americans will result in different opions (and thats really what I look forward to, to get more familiar with different opinions). Even though I might have expressed myself in a way that it seemed I wanted to know The unified opinion of the american people...

Well right off the bat you say we don't get American and civilian deaths coverage. In fact, we get fed a steady diet of these stats everyday. You also refer to the media as "the media." In the US it's not nearly so monolithic as it is in other countries. We have all kinds of media outlets that compete with each other. Some are good, some are bad. Some are more right leaning, some are more left leaning. We don't have a state controlled media outlet here. You can go to cnn.com for one perspective with certain facts and then read the NY Times for a different one and then the Wall Street Journal for another.

In fact, we get fed a steady diet of these stats everyday. This was exactly one of the things that the documentory commented(comentated? spelling?). The tv-"media" that the documentory presented (think it was CBS and NBC, but im really not certain), showed it as stats and announmous pictures (and even really criticised by the media as posibly not authentic), (like the ones in the beginning of the vietnam war - before the "shit on the flag"-move by tv-media (Morley Safer was one of the persons interviewed alot in the documentory btw)).

You also refer to the media as "the media." In the US it's not nearly so monolithic as it is in other countries. We have all kinds of media outlets that compete with each other. Some are good, some are bad. Some are more right leaning, some are more left leaning. We don't have a state controlled media outlet here. You can go to cnn.com for one perspective with certain facts and then read the NY Times for a different one and then the Wall Street Journal for another Sure, Im aware of this. Mostly the documentory focused on television and its pictures, and alot about censhorship through some wars (the wars covered: vietnam, grenada, iraq 1 and 2).

In fact, in the US you can find media sources for the entire politcal spectrum and look in on every single one of them on every single issue, if you want to. Most people, however, pick sources that have an editorial slant they agree with and stick only with that, which is maybe not a perfect choice to make, but hardly unique to Americans.

Well right off the bat you say we don't get American and civilian deaths coverage. In fact, we get fed a steady diet of these stats everyday. You also refer to the media as "the media." In the US it's not nearly so monolithic as it is in other countries. We have all kinds of media outlets that compete with each other. Some are good, some are bad. Some are more right leaning, some are more left leaning. We don't have a state controlled media outlet here. You can go to cnn.com for one perspective with certain facts and then read the NY Times for a different one and then the Wall Street Journal for another.

Actually - what we get in those stats is a pretty horrible form of censorship.

We handed over the 'trucking' duties largely to civilians, and now we don't count the stats for it at all, for example. We don't declare them as military - despite the fact they are Americans in a warzone, and we don't count them among the 'domestic' civvies. There are three types of lie, at the risk of paraphrasing - a lie, a damn lie, and statistics... we get a bit of all three.

In fact, in the US you can find media sources for the entire politcal spectrum and look in on every single one of them on every single issue, if you want to. Most people, however, pick sources that have an editorial slant they agree with and stick only with that, which is maybe not a perfect choice to make, but hardly unique to Americans. Maybe we are not so different after all ;)

*snip*

Oh, yeah. TV news sucks ass. Near as I can tell that's true the world over. The big story in media now, though, is the number of people abandoning the old media for the new - meaning they're leaving TV and print for the internet - and the internet is getting quite good at news, op/ed. You can get a wide variety of views and persepctives quite quickly on the net.

Actually - what we get in those stats is a pretty horrible form of censorship.

We handed over the 'trucking' duties largely to civilians, and now we don't count the stats for it at all, for example. We don't declare them as military - despite the fact they are Americans in a warzone, and we don't count them among the 'domestic' civvies. There are three types of lie, at the risk of paraphrasing - a lie, a damn lie, and statistics... we get a bit of all three.
From what little we've heard about how the Pentagon splits hairs over what constitutes "casualties" and "combat deaths" etc, I'd say we're not getting even a third of the real body count. I predict that in about five years or so, there are going to be some jaw-dropping investigative reports getting published. Make Westmoreland look like a piker.

Maybe we are not so different after all ;)

I say this from a place of love (no, really), but the more I learn about our European brethren, the less I think they have to brag about over us. Still some, but not as much. :)

Critical Journalism? Sometimes

Trust Embedded soldiers? Not really

Media Objective? HELL NO!!!!

Khadgar is right. They hype things up for ratings and on top of that, sway public opinion. That is why many of us do not trust what our own press, or any press for that matter.

From what little we've heard about how the Pentagon splits hairs over what constitutes "casualties" and "combat deaths" etc, I'd say we're not getting even a third of the real body count. I predict that in about five years or so, there are going to be some jaw-dropping investigative reports getting published. Make Westmoreland look like a piker.

Indeed. One only has to look around at the recent news to see that honesty is hardly the first concern. Murdered women and children in haditha? But the incident was ignored, and only finally investigated because of media horror-stories.

This 'war' has been filled with inconvenient truths. I suspect the turth will come out, mostly... but I also believe it will be at least another two years before the real shit hits the fan. Long enough for the political climate to make it 'safe' for those who might get caught in the splatter if it came out now.

Indeed. One only has to look around at the recent news to see that honesty is hardly the first concern. Murdered women and children in haditha? But the incident was ignored, and only finally investigated because of media horror-stories.

This 'war' has been filled with inconvenient truths. I suspect the turth will come out, mostly... but I also believe it will be at least another two years before the real shit hits the fan. Long enough for the political climate to make it 'safe' for those who might get caught in the splatter if it came out now.
One of the greatest injustices of life is that war criminals are hardly ever prosecuted, at least not up to a high enough level.