NationStates Jolt Archive

Suppose that sometime in the near future, much of Washington suffers significant degradation of property values all around for the next 500 years. And unlike todays popular boogeymen, Muslims, or conventional enemies, (Russia?), about 2 hours after the explosion, it's revealed that the perps are fundamentalist white Christians of the Westboro church persuasion who go on to claim that they have more such weapons that they will use to bring down "divine punishment" for harboring gays and other assorted nonsense. They also go on to claim that they have support from throughout significant branches of various militaries throughout the world and will continue a holy crusade or some such until all the world is Christians, gays are KOS and various other stupid things.

What do you think much of the world reaction would be? Would there be a Christianophobia much like Islamophobia? If the original perpetrators were caught, would the rest of the world go "meh, that's that" and forget about it? What do you think would happen?

Well, if it's within the next 2 years, and that's the only nuke they have and are capable of making, I reckon the world will give them a friggin' medal.

No christophobia, but Fundie Christians would be shut down immediately and a lot of freedoms would recalled.

I think there would be an international effort to find all the nukes and a gay rights explosion across the world (maybe the pope would be pressured to accept gays, at least in part)

other than that people won't care, rumours about Muslims raping and taking jobs have much more power behind them (namely sparking the old rapist lynch mob)

Do we kill the civil servants and the politicians?

Suppose that sometime in the near future, much of Washington suffers significant degradation of property values all around for the next 500 years. And unlike todays popular boogeymen, Muslims, or conventional enemies, (Russia?), about 2 hours after the explosion, it's revealed that the perps are fundamentalist white Christians of the Westboro church persuasion who go on to claim that they have more such weapons that they will use to bring down "divine punishment" for harboring gays and other assorted nonsense. They also go on to claim that they have support from throughout significant branches of various militaries throughout the world and will continue a holy crusade or some such until all the world is Christians, gays are KOS and various other stupid things.

What do you think much of the world reaction would be? Would there be a Christianophobia much like Islamophobia? If the original perpetrators were caught, would the rest of the world go "meh, that's that" and forget about it? What do you think would happen?

There would neither be a general reaction against christianity nor will there be an embracing of those views by other christians.

You see, people are very good at disassociating when it's convenient for them. The majority, vast majority, of this country is christian. So were this to happen, that majority of christians would easily be able to say "oh, well they're not REALLY one of us, they're just insane crackpots, not REALLY christian."

Of course, when the exact same thing happened on 9/11, the vast majority of normal, rational, well meaning muslims in this country went "well, now really, those are just fanatics, they're not really like us, you can't REALLY think that muslims are like THAT can you?"

The problem, of course, is they're the minority, so the majority in this country, quite assured in thier moral superiority, can look to those terrorists and their religion and paint all Islam with the same brush, while quite igoring the fact that were they christian not muslim, the entire country would have distanced themselves from them, and rather than hearing how it was "a bunch of christian terrorists" it would be a series of demented, murderous lunatics, and no mention of their religion would be made, because we all KNOW that real christians would never do that.

Much like McVeigh.

Do we kill the civil servants and the politicians?

I'm not quite sure I understand the context of this statement.

Do we kill the civil servants and the politicians?

Lord, I hope so.

What do you think would happen?Texas and California would declare themselves independent, as would the South, which would call itself the Confederacy. New England would group together, as would the great plains states. Left alone, the Northwest joins together to form Pacifica. As the different factions go at eachothers throats, the EU occupies the ruins of DC and joins the fray.

no mention of their religion would be made, because we all KNOW that real christians would never do that.

Much like McVeigh.

I know, but McVeigh seemed to be more of an anarchist than pushing Christianity. This hypothetical bunch would be pushing all that religio fundy crap.

I can say that at the very least, they'll probably get some sympathy from some of the more extreme elements. At least those with similar views.

Texas and California would declare themselves independent, as would the South, which would call itself the Confederacy. New England would group together, as would the great plains states. Left alone, the Northwest joins together to form Pacifica. As the different factions go at eachothers throats, the EU occupies the ruins of DC and joins the fray.

I hate it that I know exactly what you're referencing.

I hate it that I know exactly what you're referencing.:D (http://www.2kgames.com/shatteredunion/home.php)

Texas and California would declare themselves independent, as would the South, which would call itself the Confederacy. New England would group together, as would the great plains states. Left alone, the Northwest joins together to form Pacifica. As the different factions go at eachothers throats, the EU occupies the ruins of DC and joins the fray.

Someone has been playing to much Shattered Union :D

In answer to your question, nothing is going to happen to Christians.

Texas and California would declare themselves independent, as would the South, which would call itself the Confederacy. New England would group together, as would the great plains states. Left alone, the Northwest joins together to form Pacifica. As the different factions go at eachothers throats, the EU occupies the ruins of DC and joins the fray.
That game is so idiotic.

I personally would weep for the loss of historical documents and national treasures in the Smithsonian, the National Archives, and whatever else is being stored in Washington D.C. It's not something most WDC destruction topics touch upon: the sheer amount of history, art, and other stuff that is stored there. It's not just an administrative capital anymore.

I'm not quite sure I understand the context of this statement.

I just wanted to know how 'bad' it would be.

That game is so idiotic.

But fun to play :D :) ;)

Someone has been playing to much Shattered Union :D
That game is so idiotic.I wouldn't know, I've never played it.

Shattered Union could've been so much better (and a tad more stable; I hate it when I'm placing my units and the game crashes for no apparent reason).

OT: I'd reaffirm my faith in Christianity, grab my gun, and head off to fight these whackjobs.

Lord, I hope so.

http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/P/B0002U73H6.01-A3CU9PWKX4XOBY._SCLZZZZZZZ_V1101298482_.gif

But fun to play

I like modded versions of Hearts of Iron 2 better. I was really bored one day and put all of the Great Lakes states in as separate nations. My Minnesotan allies and I crushed the unholy Ohio-Indiana alliance.

I like modded versions of Hearts of Iron 2 better. I was really bored one day and put all of the Great Lakes states in as separate nations. My Minnesotan allies and I crushed the unholy Ohio-Indiana alliance.

Very interesting. We're going to have to talk about that sometime.

I just wanted to know how 'bad' it would be.

I would say strategic rather than tactical yield detonation, so probably a near complete annihilation of all civil and administrative branches in the area. Might have some survivors, but nobody of importance.

Suppose that sometime in the near future, much of Washington suffers significant degradation of property values all around for the next 500 years. And unlike todays popular boogeymen, Muslims, or conventional enemies, (Russia?), about 2 hours after the explosion, it's revealed that the perps are fundamentalist white Christians of the Westboro church persuasion who go on to claim that they have more such weapons that they will use to bring down "divine punishment" for harboring gays and other assorted nonsense.

I actually find this scenario to be far more realistic than some others bandied about on NS.

Fundies of all types are fucking lunatics.

They also go on to claim that they have support from throughout significant branches of various militaries throughout the world and will continue a holy crusade or some such until all the world is Christians, gays are KOS and various other stupid things.

I find this much less likely, but I'm sure they wouldn't attempt such an act unless they had some sort of support somewhere.

What do you think much of the world reaction would be? Would there be a Christianophobia much like Islamophobia? If the original perpetrators were caught, would the rest of the world go "meh, that's that" and forget about it? What do you think would happen?

I'm not going to speculate on world reaction. I don't know what it would be in the event of such an event, especially as described.

I do know that I don't trust Christian fundies any more than I do Islamic ones.

If it is established that such a Christian group had operational assets in the U.S., and the military was tasked to do something about it, I would volunteer.

If the military was ordered to sit on it's hands, I would likely join some sort of local militia.

Either way, a Fundie would be wise to NEVER speak to me, lest I do something I regret later. :mad:

Suppose that sometime in the near future, much of Washington suffers significant degradation of property values all around for the next 500 years. And unlike todays popular boogeymen, Muslims, or conventional enemies, (Russia?), about 2 hours after the explosion, it's revealed that the perps are fundamentalist white Christians of the Westboro church persuasion who go on to claim that they have more such weapons that they will use to bring down "divine punishment" for harboring gays and other assorted nonsense. They also go on to claim that they have support from throughout significant branches of various militaries throughout the world and will continue a holy crusade or some such until all the world is Christians, gays are KOS and various other stupid things.

What do you think much of the world reaction would be? Would there be a Christianophobia much like Islamophobia? If the original perpetrators were caught, would the rest of the world go "meh, that's that" and forget about it? What do you think would happen?

There would probably be a backlash against WBC-types, and deservedly so.

However, the premise of the question is preposterous and represents yet another attempt to avoid confronting the real issue, namely, that Islam, not the Westboro Baptist Church, is the motivating force for most terrorist activity today and the most likely source of the hypothetical attack you propose.

Why worry about this when you can worry about a high-altitude nuclear blast with an EMP covering the continental US?

Why worry about this when you can worry about a high-altitude nuclear blast with an EMP covering the continental US?
Because people don't understand how that could be harmful. They can only understood big booms destroying stuff directly rather than the destruction of our communication abilities.

the EU occupies the ruins of DC and joins the fray.

Uh? Why should we europeans occupy a nuclear wasteland? Remember, we cannot send soldiers from colonies to do the dirty job as we used to do until WW2.:p

Anyway, I doubt that even the most idiotic christian fundies would be so stupid to blast a nuke in the US territory... they wouldn't, tell me they wouldn't, wouldn't they?:D

Maybe Pope Natzinger:D would declare an "Holee Kroosadeh" against US protestant sects, he is so full of himself, and he hasn't invaded anyone anymore since 1939...

it be the start of world war three

However, the premise of the question is preposterous and represents yet another attempt to avoid confronting the real issue, namely, that Islam, not the Westboro Baptist Church, is the motivating force for most terrorist activity today and the most likely source of the hypothetical attack you propose.

If you can't understand the premise of the term hypothetical, you shouldn't post on this thread. Besides, I remember a significant lack of hue raised over a racist fundamentalist whose intent was to slaughter a large black community with chemical weapons on American soil.

Now if that had been a black with a reversed target, or perhaps a muslim, what would the reactions be hmmm?

Why worry about this when you can worry about a high-altitude nuclear blast with an EMP covering the continental US?

Because you need more than one blast to do that. Also the nly way to get away with doing that is by plane as we have the ability to detect missile launches.

I think quite a few Americans would be in a state of shock, finding out that the terrorists were one of their own instead of Foreign Brown People Worshipping Allah that they are culturally indoctrinated to believe are the only ones capable of such atrocities.

we have the ability to detect missile launches.

Yeah, but we can't do anything about it.

Yeah, but we can't do anything about it.

That is NOT 100% true

That is NOT 100% true

Well, run around screaming. But we can't stop them.

Well, run around screaming. But we can't stop them.

That is entirely subjective. Depressed altitude shots from SSBNs near coastal areas have the advantage of minimal warning and response times true, but most ballistic launches have a possibility of being intercepted.

Possibility mind you. AMS missile technology is still rather shaky to date.

But for the sake of the example, presume it to be a ground detonation.

OK, I'll set the stage with a timeline.

16 April 2007. Tax day in America. Operatives hijack a nuclear warhead from a foreign country without that government's knowledge and keep it overseas. It is unknown whose operatives they are, and the story does not make the news.

15 May 2007. The government of India receives a payout of roughly $20 million from a source tied to the Westboro Baptist Church.

17 May 2007. Shirley Phelps-Roper appears on FOX News and explains that the payoff was for disaster relief and that the WBC was issuing an apology to the survivors of the 2004 tsunami. She explains that her father may not be long for this world and wants to focus his efforts on turning the survivors of the disaster to the true Word of God.

28 May 2007. Members of the Westboro Baptist Church are arrested at a Memorial Day service at Arlington National Cemetery for interference with the proceedings. Many of them hold up signs with the usual WBC "God Hates Fags" party line. Rev. Fred Phelps is not in attendance; his daughter says he's at home with a broken ankle.

4 June 2007. The New York Times buries a story on the 12th page about the fact that Rev. Phelps has not visited a doctor about his ankle and made calls from his church's phone to Mumbai, India.

15 June 2007. George W. Bush and Dick Cheney are in Washington, D.C. dealing with issues such as Iraq, tax cuts, and Laura Bush's preparations for a 4th of July celebration in the nation's capital - the nation will turn 231.

26 June 2007. The 3000th Iraq War death's funeral is held in Columbus, OH. No one from the WBC shows up; later, when Phelps is asked why no one came, he said he had better things to do and that his ankle was still bugging him.

29 June 2006. Rev. Phelps is spotted at a store in Topeka, KS, but is not approached. He is said to be walking normally and not favoring either leg.

2 July 2006. All but a dozen members of Congress are in D.C. because a bill is before the House withdrawing the authorization of force in Iraq. It is unlikely that it will pass, but the margin is narrow enough that a pre-4th of July vote is considered necessary.

3 July 2007. The withdrawal of force is defeated 288-147 in the House and does not reach the Senate. Senior members of Congress are asked to stay in D.C. to attend the festivities. Some go home, but over half the Senate stays in D.C. and a large chunk of the House.

4 July 2007. At 2:18 PM, a hydrogen bomb is detonated by remote from a moving van parked around 1100 Pennsylvania Avenue. It is estimated that 600,000 people are dead and all government buildings are either destroyed or significantly damaged. President Bush, Vice President Cheney, the entire Cabinet, 63 Senators, and 198 members of the House are presumed dead, along with most Congressional staffs. The entire city government of Washington D.C. is destroyed.

5 July 2007. At 10:04 AM, the news is broken that it was, in fact, the Westboro Baptist Church's operatives who were responsible for the blast. Rev. Phelps is celebrating at his church in Topeka, KS. Once the news breaks, 26 members of the WBC are murdered before the day's end, including Phelps himself. Shirley Phelps-Roper escapes; it is questioned to what degree she is involved.

7 July 2007. The Westboro Baptist Church is burned to the ground hours before the first services are scheduled to take place. No one is harmed in the fire; however, the WBC is effectively disbanded.

9 July 2007. All 50 state governments convene, and the majority declare that, in the absence of a federal government, they will run themselves as an allied confederation of states. U.S. currency is still valid in all 50 states. Cries from Hawaii, Alaska, Texas, and California for outright secession from the union are made, but no secessions take place.

20 July 2007. A few "regional governments" are established for cooperation between states. Texas announces a cooperation between itself, Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, Missouri, and New Mexico. California announces one with Oregon, Washington, Arizona, Nevada, Alaska, and Hawaii. All accept U.S. currency, but on the international market, the dollar is in the toilet. Plans for regional currencies are established.

22 July 2007. Word is out that insurgents have taken 82 Marines, 17 private contractors, and 28 journalists hostage in Fallujah, Iraq. A militant group calling itself Soldiers of Allah has told the U.S. to remove all troops from Iraq by Ramadan or the 127 hostages will die and further attacks against U.S. interests will take place.

25 July 2007. Former Florida Governor Jeb Bush has declared himself the "acting President of the United States" and told Soldiers of Allah that, if even on American hostage dies, the military will unleash a furious attack on all of Iraq.

30 July 2007. The Republic of Kurdistan is declared in northern Iraq. No lands are used from Turkey, Syria, Armenia, or Iran, but Turkey, Syria, and Iran immediately denounce the declaration. Due to its central location, Irbil is named the capital.

2 August 2007. The U.S. is split on recognizing Kurdistan. The UK has not formally recognized it, although the EU has. Russian President Vladimir Putin declared that the Russian Federation does not recognize Kurdistan; in the Middle East, Israel considers recognizing Kurdistan but does not do so, since their recognition of it would incite a mass denial among the rest of the Middle East. Turkey announces it does not recognize Kurdistan; Syria makes no formal announcement.

7 August 2007. With deadlock in the U.S. still overshadowing the Kurdistan debate, Soldiers of Allah sends a message to Jeb Bush in Denver, CO, which he has labeled the "acting American capital." If the U.S. recognizes Kurdistan, the hostages die. Jeb Bush announces that America will not listen to threats and will not be held hostage by terrorists. He asks that the regional governments of the U.S. reach a consensus on the recognition of Kurdistan before a decision is made.

10 August 2007. California's regional government announces that it is pulling out of the United States. After repeated calls for Jeb Bush to step down and allow an election to take place, California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger announces that his constituents' requests have fallen on deaf ears. Arizona, Oregon, Washington, Nevada, Alaska, Hawaii, and Guam are joining California in establishing the Free Republic of the Pacific. California is divided into two states at about the midpoint; a flag with seven stripes and a sun in the top left corner is designed.

13 August 2007. California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger is declared the acting head of state for the Free Republic of the Pacific; each Californian state declares an acting governor. It is announced that elections will take place on U.S. Election Day for all relevant positions i nthe FRP; anyone elected serves until 2010.

24 August 2007. A journalist held hostage in Fallujah by Soldiers of Allah dies; it is unclear what he died of. Jeb Bush declares that, unless Soldies of Allah can come up with an adequate cause of death within one week, Iraq will be occupied by the full force of the U.S. military.

27 August 2007. FRP President Schwarzenegger asks Jeb Bush to return all soldiers from what is now the FRP; Bush flatly refuses.

29 August 2007. The FRP recognizes the Republic of Kurdistan. Jeb Bush denounces the action as un-American and urges that Kurdistan not be recognized. In that bill is a provision known as the Patriot Act III, which authorzes federal law enforcement agencies to interrogate anyone caught speaking ill of Bush or the government's foreign policy.

31 August 2007. The dollar collapses, and the American economy is said to be in ruin. Regional currencies are all that's left and have been in partial use in the Texas region as well as the New England region.

5 September 2007. Shirley Phelps-Roper is found dead in Lincoln, Nebraska. Crime scene investigators say she was stabbed to death. No arrests are made.

7 September 2007. In the dark of night, stealth bombers drop thousands of bombs on the major cities of Iraq, killing tens of thousands. Kurdistan and Fallujah are largely unaffected; however, the ensuing chaos leads many to believe that weapons of mass destruction have traveled either into, out of, or across Iraq.

8 September 2007. Another bombign raid kills many more Iraqis, and due to a communcation error, Iranian and Kurdistani interests are bombed as well. The Iranian president declares this an act of war.

9 September 2007. After another bombing raid, the death toll in Iraq is estimated at over 100,000. All 127 hostages in Fallujah are presumed dead; the majority are confirmed dead. Iran declares war on the United States.

12 September 2007. WBC sympathizers are arrested in rural Kansas for a plot to further disrupt the American government. The plot was to trigger an EMP in the city of Denver; it was poorly put together and found out thanks to undercover operatives from the Texas region.

18 September 2007. Acting president Jeb Bush calls for a declaration of war on Iran, Iraq, and Syria; no declaration is issued, though hawkish factions in the Texas region and the South pledge support. FRP President Schwarzenegger denounces the bombings and the poor handling of the hostage situation; Arizona governor Janet Napolitano calls Bush "insane" and implores the U.S. to oust him.

22 September 2007. The U.S. is split on a measure that would grant Jeb Bush emergency powers and the ability to conduct war against Iran unilaterally. The FRP is firmly against the measure and threatens an embargo against the U.S. should it conduct such a measure.

26 September 2007. It is announced that a vote will take place on Tuesday, 6 November 2007, concerning the granting of emergency powers to Jeb Bush. If he is not granted emergency powers, he will run for President of the United States normally in 2008. The Republican party of the U.S. asks the FRP not to interfere in the election.

2 October 2007. Iran announces it has a fully functional nuclear weapons program and that their long-range missiles could destroy Tel Aviv. Jeb Bush threatens "drastic action" against Iran if it launches even one bomb of any kind.

12 October 2007. Leaders in the New York region implore voters to vote against the Emergency Powers Initiative. Bush denounces the tactics as politicians trying to influence the vote.

17 October 2007. Iran's president threatens to test a nuclear weapon in Kurdistani territory; in exchange for not doing so, the U.S. is to cut all ties with Israel. Bush denounces the threat as "terroristic" and uses the threat as a PR tactic.

24 October 2007. Many arrests are made in the New York region for violating the Patriot Act III; most suspects are interrogated and released, and they begin to lay low.

25 October 2007. An attack ad is aired on American TV that indicates that the nuclear attack on Washington was actually by the Iranians, not the WBC. Polls later show that 45% of American believe the ad unconditionally and 49% believe it's a total lie.

3 November 2007 - Arrests are made at large Halloween parties all over the U.S. Immediate trial, conviction, and sentencing en masse of nearly all arrested revelers detains them for 30 days. Prison systems tend to overflow during this time.

5 November 2007 - Ohio Governor Ted Strickland, an outspoken critic of Jeb Bush, is reported missing. No one, not even his wife, has seen him in 24 hours.

6 November 2007 - In the FRP, new elections are held. The House of Representatives elects 195 members from all over the nation; the Senate picks two people from each state and one from Guam for a total of 15. Arnold Schwarzenegger is re-elected President of the FRP. In the U.S., the Emergency Powers Initiative is believed to fail by a slim margin, but at the end, Jeb Bush announces that he won with 62% of the vote. The results are certified, and Jeb Bush orders construction of a mansion in Denver.

9 November 2007 - President Bush announces that 475,000 troops will occupy Iraq and Iran. So far, no allies appear willing to assist in this endeavor.

14 November 2007 - President Bush declares himself President for Life. Arnold Schwarzenegger, in response, denounces Bush and states that he will not serve past 2010; if he is to seek elected office, it will be a different one.

21 November 2007 - Forces land in southern Iran. A full-scale bombing raid is conducted in Iraq.

So we have war between the U.S. and Iran, a despotic President, and an independent ewest coast.

There is no way in hell New England would stay in the US under these conditions. We'd try to secceed and join Canada.

There is no way in hell New England would stay in the US under these conditions. We'd try to secceed and join Canada.

That's funny.

That's funny.

That wasn't at all a joke.

That wasn't at all a joke.

And who'll lead this so called secession movement?

I think quite a few Americans would be in a state of shock, finding out that the terrorists were one of their own instead of Foreign Brown People Worshipping Allah that they are culturally indoctrinated to believe are the only ones capable of such atrocities.
zOMG what's your obsession with Muslims???

And who'll lead this so called secession movement?

I quite frankly don't care who leads it. That sort of thing is better speculated upon in one of the RP boards. Incidentally, I also couldn't care less if you don't like it.

I quite frankly don't care who leads it. That sort of thing is better speculated upon in one of the RP boards. Incidentally, I also couldn't care less if you don't like it.

And what makes ya think that New England will leave? This is not 1812 ya know.

And what makes ya think that New England will leave? This is not 1812 ya know.

Do you have any idea how unpopular W is up here? Or how unpopular Jeb would be if he pulled crap like this? We might not succeed, indeed we probably wouldn't, nor would Canada be likely to let us in for fear of US retaliation, be there would be a seccessionist movement. A big one.

Do you have any idea how unpopular W is up here?

Since I live near New England, damn straight I do. However, you are not answering my question.

Or how unpopular Jeb would be if he pulled crap like this?

Jeb Bush ain't President and will not be president. So that's a moot point.

We might not seceed, indeed we probably wouldn't, nor would Canada be likely to let us in for fear of US retaliation, be there would be a seccessionist movement. A big one.

I actually doubt it. One thing about Americans I have noticed is that when disaster falls somewhere, we unite and not divide.

Suppose that sometime in the near future, much of Washington suffers significant degradation of property values all around for the next 500 years. And unlike todays popular boogeymen, Muslims, or conventional enemies, (Russia?), about 2 hours after the explosion, it's revealed that the perps are fundamentalist white Christians of the Westboro church persuasion who go on to claim that they have more such weapons that they will use to bring down "divine punishment" for harboring gays and other assorted nonsense. They also go on to claim that they have support from throughout significant branches of various militaries throughout the world and will continue a holy crusade or some such until all the world is Christians, gays are KOS and various other stupid things.

What do you think much of the world reaction would be? Would there be a Christianophobia much like Islamophobia? If the original perpetrators were caught, would the rest of the world go "meh, that's that" and forget about it? What do you think would happen?
That depends. Do Christians pour into the street in the tens of thousands celebrating? Do subsequent polls in Christian theocracies show broad public support for the perpetrators? Do various supporting organizations spring up and start releasing video tapes condemning, not just that gays are allowed to freely exist, but our "pronographic, pop culture, materialistic society?" Do T-shirts with the face of the perpetrator start showing up in the schools in these Christian theocracies? Do more attacks, not just in washington D.C., but all over the world continue to happen with the same movement taking credit for them?

Bush's approval ratings by state (March, 2006 source:http://www.surveyusa.com/50State2006/50StateBushApproval060315State.htm )



Connecticut Approve:32% Disapprove: 66%

Maine Approve: 28% Disapprove: 71%

New Hampshire Approve: 35% Disapprove: 63%

Massachusetts Approve: Disapprove: 26% Disapprove: 71%

Rhode Island Approve: 28% Dsiapprove: 70%

Vermont Approve: 29% Disapprove: 67%

an Australia seat's back an watch all go down

Since I live near New England, damn straight I do. However, you are not answering my question.



Jeb Bush ain't President and will not be president. So that's a moot point.



I actually doubt it. One thing about Americans I have noticed is that when disaster falls somewhere, we unite and not divide.

I did answer your question, and again, I point out that this is really just RP speculation, and has no real meaning, as WBC is unlikely to ever obtain a nuclear device.

I did answer your question, and again, I point out that this is really just RP speculation, and has no real meaning, as WBC is unlikely to ever obtain a nuclear device.

No you did not answer it. You also dodged a major point I brought up.

And apparently, you do not understand that this is hypothetical.

No you did not answer it. You also dodged a major point I brought up.

And apparently, you do not understand that this is hypothetical.

I said it was hypothetical. I think we can assume I understood that. And what did I dodge answering?

I said it was hypothetical. I think we can assume I understood that. And what did I dodge answering?

What makes you think New England will leave.

What makes you think New England will leave.

I said we'd try to. I doubt we'd succeed. We'd try because a lot of people up here would not approve of the final descent into dictatorship. A lot are already opposed to the PATRIOT Act and the Millitary Commisions Act. One of Maine's Senators voted for it (the other abstiained), and her popularity took a hit (still looking for a link). It would hardly be a universal sentiment, but there would be enough support that at least some of New England, if not all six states, would try it.


Now, I've answered your question. I'm not spending the rest of my Christmas debating an imaginary scenario with you.

I said we'd try to. I doubt we'd succeed. We'd try because a lot of people up here would not approve of the final descent into dictatorship.

And what makes you think we would fall into a dictatorship?

A lot are already opposed to the PATRIOT Act and the Millitary Commisions Act. One of Maine's Senators voted for it (the other abstiained), and her popularity took a hit (still looking for a link). It would hardly be a universal sentiment, but there would be enough support that at least some of New England, if not all six states, would try it.

And yet, in a disaster, this country seems to unite and not divide. I could point to at least 2 examples of that.

Now, I've answered your question. I'm not spending the rest of my Christmas debating an imaginary scenario with you.

Kill joy. :D

OK, I'll set the stage with a timeline.

16 April 2007. Tax day in America. Operatives hijack a nuclear warhead from a foreign country without that government's knowledge and keep it overseas. It is unknown whose operatives they are, and the story does not make the news.

15 May 2007. The government of India receives a payout of roughly $20 million from a source tied to the Westboro Baptist Church.

17 May 2007. Shirley Phelps-Roper appears on FOX News and explains that the payoff was for disaster relief and that the WBC was issuing an apology to the survivors of the 2004 tsunami. She explains that her father may not be long for this world and wants to focus his efforts on turning the survivors of the disaster to the true Word of God.

28 May 2007. Members of the Westboro Baptist Church are arrested at a Memorial Day service at Arlington National Cemetery for interference with the proceedings. Many of them hold up signs with the usual WBC "God Hates Fags" party line. Rev. Fred Phelps is not in attendance; his daughter says he's at home with a broken ankle.

4 June 2007. The New York Times buries a story on the 12th page about the fact that Rev. Phelps has not visited a doctor about his ankle and made calls from his church's phone to Mumbai, India.

15 June 2007. George W. Bush and Dick Cheney are in Washington, D.C. dealing with issues such as Iraq, tax cuts, and Laura Bush's preparations for a 4th of July celebration in the nation's capital - the nation will turn 231.

26 June 2007. The 3000th Iraq War death's funeral is held in Columbus, OH. No one from the WBC shows up; later, when Phelps is asked why no one came, he said he had better things to do and that his ankle was still bugging him.

29 June 2006. Rev. Phelps is spotted at a store in Topeka, KS, but is not approached. He is said to be walking normally and not favoring either leg.

2 July 2006. All but a dozen members of Congress are in D.C. because a bill is before the House withdrawing the authorization of force in Iraq. It is unlikely that it will pass, but the margin is narrow enough that a pre-4th of July vote is considered necessary.

3 July 2007. The withdrawal of force is defeated 288-147 in the House and does not reach the Senate. Senior members of Congress are asked to stay in D.C. to attend the festivities. Some go home, but over half the Senate stays in D.C. and a large chunk of the House.

4 July 2007. At 2:18 PM, a hydrogen bomb is detonated by remote from a moving van parked around 1100 Pennsylvania Avenue. It is estimated that 600,000 people are dead and all government buildings are either destroyed or significantly damaged. President Bush, Vice President Cheney, the entire Cabinet, 63 Senators, and 198 members of the House are presumed dead, along with most Congressional staffs. The entire city government of Washington D.C. is destroyed.

5 July 2007. At 10:04 AM, the news is broken that it was, in fact, the Westboro Baptist Church's operatives who were responsible for the blast. Rev. Phelps is celebrating at his church in Topeka, KS. Once the news breaks, 26 members of the WBC are murdered before the day's end, including Phelps himself. Shirley Phelps-Roper escapes; it is questioned to what degree she is involved.

7 July 2007. The Westboro Baptist Church is burned to the ground hours before the first services are scheduled to take place. No one is harmed in the fire; however, the WBC is effectively disbanded.

9 July 2007. All 50 state governments convene, and the majority declare that, in the absence of a federal government, they will run themselves as an allied confederation of states. U.S. currency is still valid in all 50 states. Cries from Hawaii, Alaska, Texas, and California for outright secession from the union are made, but no secessions take place.

20 July 2007. A few "regional governments" are established for cooperation between states. Texas announces a cooperation between itself, Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, Missouri, and New Mexico. California announces one with Oregon, Washington, Arizona, Nevada, Alaska, and Hawaii. All accept U.S. currency, but on the international market, the dollar is in the toilet. Plans for regional currencies are established.

22 July 2007. Word is out that insurgents have taken 82 Marines, 17 private contractors, and 28 journalists hostage in Fallujah, Iraq. A militant group calling itself Soldiers of Allah has told the U.S. to remove all troops from Iraq by Ramadan or the 127 hostages will die and further attacks against U.S. interests will take place.

25 July 2007. Former Florida Governor Jeb Bush has declared himself the "acting President of the United States" and told Soldiers of Allah that, if even on American hostage dies, the military will unleash a furious attack on all of Iraq.

30 July 2007. The Republic of Kurdistan is declared in northern Iraq. No lands are used from Turkey, Syria, Armenia, or Iran, but Turkey, Syria, and Iran immediately denounce the declaration. Due to its central location, Irbil is named the capital.

2 August 2007. The U.S. is split on recognizing Kurdistan. The UK has not formally recognized it, although the EU has. Russian President Vladimir Putin declared that the Russian Federation does not recognize Kurdistan; in the Middle East, Israel considers recognizing Kurdistan but does not do so, since their recognition of it would incite a mass denial among the rest of the Middle East. Turkey announces it does not recognize Kurdistan; Syria makes no formal announcement.

7 August 2007. With deadlock in the U.S. still overshadowing the Kurdistan debate, Soldiers of Allah sends a message to Jeb Bush in Denver, CO, which he has labeled the "acting American capital." If the U.S. recognizes Kurdistan, the hostages die. Jeb Bush announces that America will not listen to threats and will not be held hostage by terrorists. He asks that the regional governments of the U.S. reach a consensus on the recognition of Kurdistan before a decision is made.

10 August 2007. California's regional government announces that it is pulling out of the United States. After repeated calls for Jeb Bush to step down and allow an election to take place, California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger announces that his constituents' requests have fallen on deaf ears. Arizona, Oregon, Washington, Nevada, Alaska, Hawaii, and Guam are joining California in establishing the Free Republic of the Pacific. California is divided into two states at about the midpoint; a flag with seven stripes and a sun in the top left corner is designed.

13 August 2007. California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger is declared the acting head of state for the Free Republic of the Pacific; each Californian state declares an acting governor. It is announced that elections will take place on U.S. Election Day for all relevant positions i nthe FRP; anyone elected serves until 2010.

24 August 2007. A journalist held hostage in Fallujah by Soldiers of Allah dies; it is unclear what he died of. Jeb Bush declares that, unless Soldies of Allah can come up with an adequate cause of death within one week, Iraq will be occupied by the full force of the U.S. military.

27 August 2007. FRP President Schwarzenegger asks Jeb Bush to return all soldiers from what is now the FRP; Bush flatly refuses.

29 August 2007. The FRP recognizes the Republic of Kurdistan. Jeb Bush denounces the action as un-American and urges that Kurdistan not be recognized. In that bill is a provision known as the Patriot Act III, which authorzes federal law enforcement agencies to interrogate anyone caught speaking ill of Bush or the government's foreign policy.

31 August 2007. The dollar collapses, and the American economy is said to be in ruin. Regional currencies are all that's left and have been in partial use in the Texas region as well as the New England region.

5 September 2007. Shirley Phelps-Roper is found dead in Lincoln, Nebraska. Crime scene investigators say she was stabbed to death. No arrests are made.

7 September 2007. In the dark of night, stealth bombers drop thousands of bombs on the major cities of Iraq, killing tens of thousands. Kurdistan and Fallujah are largely unaffected; however, the ensuing chaos leads many to believe that weapons of mass destruction have traveled either into, out of, or across Iraq.

8 September 2007. Another bombign raid kills many more Iraqis, and due to a communcation error, Iranian and Kurdistani interests are bombed as well. The Iranian president declares this an act of war.

9 September 2007. After another bombing raid, the death toll in Iraq is estimated at over 100,000. All 127 hostages in Fallujah are presumed dead; the majority are confirmed dead. Iran declares war on the United States.

12 September 2007. WBC sympathizers are arrested in rural Kansas for a plot to further disrupt the American government. The plot was to trigger an EMP in the city of Denver; it was poorly put together and found out thanks to undercover operatives from the Texas region.

18 September 2007. Acting president Jeb Bush calls for a declaration of war on Iran, Iraq, and Syria; no declaration is issued, though hawkish factions in the Texas region and the South pledge support. FRP President Schwarzenegger denounces the bombings and the poor handling of the hostage situation; Arizona governor Janet Napolitano calls Bush "insane" and implores the U.S. to oust him.

22 September 2007. The U.S. is split on a measure that would grant Jeb Bush emergency powers and the ability to conduct war against Iran unilaterally. The FRP is firmly against the measure and threatens an embargo against the U.S. should it conduct such a measure.

26 September 2007. It is announced that a vote will take place on Tuesday, 6 November 2007, concerning the granting of emergency powers to Jeb Bush. If he is not granted emergency powers, he will run for President of the United States normally in 2008. The Republican party of the U.S. asks the FRP not to interfere in the election.

2 October 2007. Iran announces it has a fully functional nuclear weapons program and that their long-range missiles could destroy Tel Aviv. Jeb Bush threatens "drastic action" against Iran if it launches even one bomb of any kind.

12 October 2007. Leaders in the New York region implore voters to vote against the Emergency Powers Initiative. Bush denounces the tactics as politicians trying to influence the vote.

17 October 2007. Iran's president threatens to test a nuclear weapon in Kurdistani territory; in exchange for not doing so, the U.S. is to cut all ties with Israel. Bush denounces the threat as "terroristic" and uses the threat as a PR tactic.

24 October 2007. Many arrests are made in the New York region for violating the Patriot Act III; most suspects are interrogated and released, and they begin to lay low.

25 October 2007. An attack ad is aired on American TV that indicates that the nuclear attack on Washington was actually by the Iranians, not the WBC. Polls later show that 45% of American believe the ad unconditionally and 49% believe it's a total lie.

3 November 2007 - Arrests are made at large Halloween parties all over the U.S. Immediate trial, conviction, and sentencing en masse of nearly all arrested revelers detains them for 30 days. Prison systems tend to overflow during this time.

5 November 2007 - Ohio Governor Ted Strickland, an outspoken critic of Jeb Bush, is reported missing. No one, not even his wife, has seen him in 24 hours.

6 November 2007 - In the FRP, new elections are held. The House of Representatives elects 195 members from all over the nation; the Senate picks two people from each state and one from Guam for a total of 15. Arnold Schwarzenegger is re-elected President of the FRP. In the U.S., the Emergency Powers Initiative is believed to fail by a slim margin, but at the end, Jeb Bush announces that he won with 62% of the vote. The results are certified, and Jeb Bush orders construction of a mansion in Denver.

9 November 2007 - President Bush announces that 475,000 troops will occupy Iraq and Iran. So far, no allies appear willing to assist in this endeavor.

14 November 2007 - President Bush declares himself President for Life. Arnold Schwarzenegger, in response, denounces Bush and states that he will not serve past 2010; if he is to seek elected office, it will be a different one.

21 November 2007 - Forces land in southern Iran. A full-scale bombing raid is conducted in Iraq.

So we have war between the U.S. and Iran, a despotic President, and an independent ewest coast.
...

Dude, that reality would suck. Especially since I live not that far from Denver. I'd be forced to move to the FRP if it were a reality for real.

And who'll lead this so called secession movement?
Howard Dean, obviously.

Howard Dean, obviously.

Why would Howard Dean lead it?

Why would Howard Dean lead it?

He's popular in Vermont.

He's popular in Vermont.

Well, that's true, but as far as I know he's not that popular elsewhere, while Hillary Clinton and John Kerry both manage to be more popular, as stupid as that is.

Barack Obama might move and then he'd be given the power. No telling what Obama-man would do.

That depends. Do Christians pour into the street in the tens of thousands celebrating?

I don't have the numbers, but presume there to be widespread condemnation of said bombing but at the same time, heavy blame on the gays for existing. Fringe groups would celebrate.


Do subsequent polls in Christian theocracies show broad public support for the perpetrators?

The only literal Christian theocracy that comes to mind is Vatican city. Somewhat lukewarm condemnation of bombing, but again, roughly the same reactions as above.


Do various supporting organizations spring up and start releasing video tapes condemning, not just that gays are allowed to freely exist, but our "pronographic, pop culture, materialistic society?"

I think we already have that, even without said bombing. No reason to think why it would stop.


Do T-shirts with the face of the perpetrator start showing up in the schools in these Christian theocracies?

Trickier to say. I never specified if the real face of the perpetrator was revealed, only the group that did it.


Do more attacks, not just in washington D.C., but all over the world continue to happen with the same movement taking credit for them?

I believe I stated that the group claimed to have military support and would continue to make more strikes until their stated goals are reached. That include, but not limited to:

1: Elimination of all homosexuals. The list may expand to include other forms of "deviants".
2: A worldwide Christian theocracy.
3: Forced conversions on pain of death.

Suppose that sometime in the near future, much of Washington suffers significant degradation of property values all around for the next 500 years. And unlike todays popular boogeymen, Muslims, or conventional enemies, (Russia?), about 2 hours after the explosion, it's revealed that the perps are fundamentalist white Christians of the Westboro church persuasion who go on to claim that they have more such weapons that they will use to bring down "divine punishment" for harboring gays and other assorted nonsense. They also go on to claim that they have support from throughout significant branches of various militaries throughout the world and will continue a holy crusade or some such until all the world is Christians, gays are KOS and various other stupid things.

What do you think much of the world reaction would be? Would there be a Christianophobia much like Islamophobia? If the original perpetrators were caught, would the rest of the world go "meh, that's that" and forget about it? What do you think would happen?


Firstly "Islamphobia" is a little bit funny. For the most part people don't have a widespread phobia, the media has gone head over heals to make sure that no one believes that Islam is responsible for any terrorism what-so-ever, and that Islam is somehow a religion of peace while christianity is a religion of war. Well lets check the facts Islam:4 bombings on innocent civilians (killing thousands) Christianity:2 bombings on innocent civilians (killing perhaps maybe in the hundreds). As well as current Jihads in Chechnya and Kashmir. (We won't count Iraq,Indonesia where tens of thousands of christians are slaughtered by muslims or the Sudan (Darfour) where Christians are being slaughtered by muslims) .... hmmmm tally looks kinda bad on Islam.

Secondly, the Christians would be slapped in jail and christianity banned even more than it is now before you could say Merry Christmas... but thats just my 2 cents. The world today is very much bias against Christianity and for Islam (at least in the states, maybe Europe is different.)

The United States Government is most likely the most hardened governing structure in the world, designed to withstand a full fledged nuclear campaign, let alone a singular terrorist attack. During the Cold War, the Soviets widely believed that a decapitation strike against the United States Government was impossible, as it was so spread out, and authority was so decentralized (much unlike the Soviet system, which for their own reasons was heavily centralized and much easier to nail with a decapitation strike).

Existing security measures, including the hardening of the Chain of Command would permit the US Government to continue operation in the event of a singular nuclear terrorist attack, if it should wipe out Washington DC. Based out of one of several emergency command posts, including the E-4B National Airborne Operations Center, Cheyenne Mountain, Mt. Weather, Raven Rock and several other hardened facilities.

If a terrorist group were to set off a nuclear device in Washington DC, the continuity of the US Government would likely be disrupted for only a short time, with the military chain of command likely remaining intact continuously. Other areas would take somewhat longer to come online, but would most likely be able to maintain their capability over the long term.

Societal implications would be an obvious, short-term knee jerk reaction, with a correction following shortly thereafter. Much as what we witnessed following the September 11 attacks, we'll see a tightening of the reins, and after a few years, something of a loosening.

Oh, and my job security will go sky high.

Firstly "Islamphobia" is a little bit funny. For the most part people don't have a widespread phobia, the media has gone head over heals to make sure that no one believes that Islam is responsible for any terrorism what-so-ever, and that Islam is somehow a religion of peace while christianity is a religion of war. Well lets check the facts Islam:4 bombings on innocent civilians (killing thousands) Christianity:2 bombings on innocent civilians (killing perhaps maybe in the hundreds). As well as current Jihads in Chechnya and Kashmir. (We won't count Iraq,Indonesia where tens of thousands of christians are slaughtered by muslims or the Sudan (Darfour) where Christians are being slaughtered by muslims) .... hmmmm tally looks kinda bad on Islam.

Secondly, the Christians would be slapped in jail and christianity banned even more than it is now before you could say Merry Christmas... but thats just my 2 cents. The world today is very much bias against Christianity and for Islam (at least in the states, maybe Europe is different.)

What the hell part of the US are you from?

What the hell part of the US are you from?

Bizzaro-U.S.

Suppose that sometime in the near future, much of Washington suffers significant degradation of property values all around for the next 500 years. And unlike todays popular boogeymen, Muslims, or conventional enemies, (Russia?), about 2 hours after the explosion, it's revealed that the perps are fundamentalist white Christians of the Westboro church persuasion who go on to claim that they have more such weapons that they will use to bring down "divine punishment" for harboring gays and other assorted nonsense. They also go on to claim that they have support from throughout significant branches of various militaries throughout the world and will continue a holy crusade or some such until all the world is Christians, gays are KOS and various other stupid things.

What do you think much of the world reaction would be? Would there be a Christianophobia much like Islamophobia? If the original perpetrators were caught, would the rest of the world go "meh, that's that" and forget about it? What do you think would happen?

Said perps would be beheaded, homes burned, families executed, and dogs shot.

They aren't fundamentalists.

They're Anti-American nut jobs who are hated by even good loving fundamentalists such as myself. Irony?

If we're talking about murderers it doesn't matter what god they claim. Texas knows that....

The world today is very much bias against Christianity and for Islam (at least in the states, maybe Europe is different.)

I would think this is a perception on your part, but at the same time, significantly incorrect. Observe the instance of a politician who was a Muslim in the US. There was a fair bit of phobia being directed towards the person merely for the choice of religion. Furthermore, there was again, a petition in a local US town by some of the citizenry to ban the construction of a mosque despite being compliant with zoning laws on the simple basis that it was a mosque, and that the people attending them would be Muslim.

To put it simply, to say that the media and general perception is for Islam and against Christianity is quite laughable.


Well lets check the facts Islam:4 bombings on innocent civilians (killing thousands) Christianity:2 bombings on innocent civilians (killing perhaps maybe in the hundreds). As well as current Jihads in Chechnya and Kashmir. (We won't count Iraq,Indonesia where tens of thousands of christians are slaughtered by muslims or the Sudan (Darfour) where Christians are being slaughtered by muslims) .... hmmmm tally looks kinda bad on Islam.

Your tallying of "facts" here is rather polluted with inconsistencies. If one were to go for religiously motivated killings throughout time, the bodycount is fairly even.

Furthermore, it is highly unlikely that what is occuring in Chechnya can be called a Jihad. It is more accurately described as a guerrilla campaign against occupation. Actions taken match that of terrorists, but that is to be expected in guerrilla operations. Primary motivation is that of independence. Hardly something that can be called a Jihad.

Indonesia, your numbers are completely unsubstantiated, and likely overstated.

In Sudan, the killings are more tribal/faction related than religious related.

The United States Government is most likely the most hardened governing structure in the world, designed to withstand a full fledged nuclear campaign, let alone a singular terrorist attack.

Well, I am neither disputing nor affirming that, but what I am pointing out is that much of the visible leadership, that being the entities inhabiting congress, as well as the president and most of his staff would be slain.

Hmmm, an interesting thought occurs. This example appears to have been taken in the context of occurring recently, with current leaders.

What would happen if it occurred after say 2009, with Democratic leaders, but otherwise everything else the same?

One can certainly imagine the kind of vulture feeding that would occur shortly thereafter, despite the terrorists goals.

Suppose that sometime in the near future, much of Washington suffers significant degradation of property values all around for the next 500 years. And unlike todays popular boogeymen, Muslims, or conventional enemies, (Russia?), about 2 hours after the explosion, it's revealed that the perps are fundamentalist white Christians of the Westboro church persuasion who go on to claim that they have more such weapons that they will use to bring down "divine punishment" for harboring gays and other assorted nonsense. They also go on to claim that they have support from throughout significant branches of various militaries throughout the world and will continue a holy crusade or some such until all the world is Christians, gays are KOS and various other stupid things.

What do you think much of the world reaction would be? Would there be a Christianophobia much like Islamophobia? If the original perpetrators were caught, would the rest of the world go "meh, that's that" and forget about it? What do you think would happen?

Really Reaching aren't we ... unbelievable!

Really Reaching aren't we ... unbelievable!

Is it really so hard for you to apply some thought towards this particular hypothesis? Or maybe you just can't bear the thought of anything, even as an example, casting bad light on that you like?

zOMG what's your obsession with Muslims???

Why don't you ask that question to all the New Mitannis and Ny Nordlands who keep posting "OMG Islam is 3b1l" posts? Selective are we?

Thought so.

There would neither be a general reaction against christianity nor will there be an embracing of those views by other christians.

You see, people are very good at disassociating when it's convenient for them. The majority, vast majority, of this country is christian. So were this to happen, that majority of christians would easily be able to say "oh, well they're not REALLY one of us, they're just insane crackpots, not REALLY christian."

Of course, when the exact same thing happened on 9/11, the vast majority of normal, rational, well meaning muslims in this country went "well, now really, those are just fanatics, they're not really like us, you can't REALLY think that muslims are like THAT can you?"

The problem, of course, is they're the minority, so the majority in this country, quite assured in thier moral superiority, can look to those terrorists and their religion and paint all Islam with the same brush, while quite igoring the fact that were they christian not muslim, the entire country would have distanced themselves from them, and rather than hearing how it was "a bunch of christian terrorists" it would be a series of demented, murderous lunatics, and no mention of their religion would be made, because we all KNOW that real christians would never do that.

Much like McVeigh.


I'm getting extremely tired of people in these forums making it sound like christians are murders. I am Christain, and I have never killed anyone, and would not kill anyone even to save my life. I'm not saying that I wouldn't protect myself if attacked by others. I just wouldn't kill them in the process. So why don't you chill on this type of thread.

Hypothesis!? This isn't a Hypothesis ... it's a very bad joke.

Wow, one of my threads got necro'd. That's a better joke I think.


Your interpretation is flawed. You think your showing your intelligence by writting stuff like this? The fact is that there are real christains and others that proclaim to be christains but don't follow Jesus' teaching as they should.


Now where have I written that there are no such divisions hmmm? I think perhaps the aspersions in regards to intelligence, or at the very least, reading comprehension, should be cast elsewhere.


Then there are some who proclaim to be christains and do things in the name of God that they know is wrong. Yet they do it anyway.

Exactly the same way there are extremists who do things in what they proclaim that are in the name of Allah, but aren't really what he would approve.


My point is that you shouldn't generalize against any group of people. You all complain if anyone says anything about muslims,

That's because when people say things about Muslims, in NS context of course, it is normally a generalization in the worst manner. If you paid attention to my opening post, I did specify that it was an extremist group that was responsible, not a generic coverall term.

In fact, your reactions only serve to reinforce what Arthais has said.


but it is all right to attack me personally by making statements like these?


My dear Koramerica, I wouldn't know you from a hole in the ground. And I do mean that in a positive manner. My statements are in direct relation to your posts and demonstrated lack of comprehension, whether deliberate or accidental, of the op.


I will not allow you to make statements like this without calling you on it. Believe that!

And I do so enjoy pointing out that you are merely compounding your initial error. Believe that if you will.

OCC: ... It's revealed that the perps are fundamentalist white Christians of the Westboro church persuasion ...

This statement is where I got that christians were being per traded as murders. I am white, and I am christian, I am also transgendered, ( this was included because of the gay reference ) yet I still defend the christian community. Beyond that is even a hypothetical nuclear attack on Washington a good idea? With the world climate as it is right now?

I´m not american, but even so I higly doubt a country like the US would get its entire government disrupted just because of a nuclear strike on Washington.

What about the vice president? And even if he died too, there would be someone else down the line of comand.

If a nuclear blast ocured in the US, probabily Martial Law would be enforced, and the military would take control for a brief time, until the gov can get together.

Are americans so willing to put down everything and create new countries inside North America just because the central government went down? That makes me think the american states are like hostages to the bigger central gov, and once he is out, everyone starts to try to get independence.

OCC:

This statement is where I got that christians were being per traded as murders. I am white, and I am christian, I am also transgendered, ( this was included because of the gay reference ) yet I still defend the christian community.

If you paid attention, I did specify that they were of the Westboro Church persuasion. Just in case you didn't know who or what they are, they're a peculiar group that's self labelled as a church with a patriarch at the top. Generally, their main message is that everything bad that has ever happened to America, flooding in New Orleans, IEDs in Iraq, etc, etc, was because America didn't exterminate all gays and god was punishing them for it.

It's not all that hard to imagine that with a little time, such a group could go from mere words to actions.


Beyond that is even a hypothetical nuclear attack on Washington a good idea? With the world climate as it is right now?

Good idea? In what context? Besides, I'm fairly certain that even if such an attack took place, nobody would miss some several thousand blood sucking parasites who call themselves politicians and lobbyists.

Suppose that sometime in the near future, much of Washington suffers significant degradation of property values all around for the next 500 years. And unlike todays popular boogeymen, Muslims, or conventional enemies, (Russia?), about 2 hours after the explosion, it's revealed that the perps are fundamentalist white Christians of the Westboro church persuasion who go on to claim that they have more such weapons that they will use to bring down "divine punishment" for harboring gays and other assorted nonsense. They also go on to claim that they have support from throughout significant branches of various militaries throughout the world and will continue a holy crusade or some such until all the world is Christians, gays are KOS and various other stupid things.

What do you think much of the world reaction would be? Would there be a Christianophobia much like Islamophobia? If the original perpetrators were caught, would the rest of the world go "meh, that's that" and forget about it? What do you think would happen?

Clearly, the only sensible reaction would be to invade Italy and the Vatican.

I´m not american, but even so I higly doubt a country like the US would get its entire government disrupted just because of a nuclear strike on Washington.

What about the vice president? And even if he died too, there would be someone else down the line of comand.

If a nuclear blast ocured in the US, probabily Martial Law would be enforced, and the military would take control for a brief time, until the gov can get together.

Are americans so willing to put down everything and create new countries inside North America just because the central government went down? That makes me think the american states are like hostages to the bigger central gov, and once he is out, everyone starts to try to get independence.

No, but a lot of people here on NS have very active imagination and wishful thinking. The only region of the US that has the occasional rumblings of seccession is the Old South (and since they got whupped the first time, there are only about a hundred or so that are still trying to secede).

What many don't realize is that the US Constitution can already handle this problem, despite the fact that it wasn't designed for the situtation. The Constitution states that, in the event of a representative's death or resignation, the governor of the state he represents shall appoint someone to fill the role until normal election. Take that, and modify it to the extreme. In a month, at max, the legistative branch of the US Federal government is restored.

Now comes the tricky part. According the Presidental Order of Succession, the next person in line would be the Speaker of the House. Whichever party had majority rule in the House would then elect someone to fill that position, who then, by default, becomes president. All he has to do is grab a judge from a nearby town to administer the Presidential Oath. The VP, Cabinent, and Supreme Court would take some time as each candidate would need approval from Congress, but the hard part is over. Within a month and a half, the US Federal government is back in working order (bare bones, maybe, but working).

We wouldn't ban Christianity - that would involve putting most of the population in jail - but there might be martial law for a time.

A new capital would eventually be declared, probably on the East Coast - perhaps Philadelphia or New York.

If the whole of Congress, the President, the Vice President, and the Cabinet were all in DC at the time, then the highest-ranking military officer who survived would take over - though if you interpret the Constitution a certain way, then the Governor of the Speaker's home state would appoint the President. Now, in all probability, he'd end up appointing either himself or some military bigshot, unless this happened shortly after an election, it was a close call, and the loser is still alive, which would make the loser a viable candidate. For instance, if this scenario occured shortly after the 2000 election, we might have ended up with Gore as President.

Secondly, the Christians would be slapped in jail and christianity banned even more than it is now before you could say Merry Christmas... but thats just my 2 cents. The world today is very much bias against Christianity and for Islam (at least in the states, maybe Europe is different.)
Christianity's banned? Where do you live, Iran?
There's an anti-Christian bias in the US? WTF? Please talk to your doctor. These delusions of persecution can be helped with proper medication.

Tell me, how many of our elected reps are Christian? How many are Muslim?
How many TV families are Christian? How many are Muslim?
How many Christian churches are in your town? How many mosques?

No, but a lot of people here on NS have very active imagination and wishful thinking. The only region of the US that has the occasional rumblings of seccession is the Old South (and since they got whupped the first time, there are only about a hundred or so that are still trying to secede).

Actually, there are a few secessionists all over, but as you said none of the movements are very large. The biggest of them is probably the Alaska Independence Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Independence_Party).

In November there was a meeting of secessionists in Vermont. Not many people showed up apparently, but they were from all over the place.

http://counterpunch.org/jansson12202006.html

What many don't realize is that the US Constitution can already handle this problem, despite the fact that it wasn't designed for the situtation.

Actually, I am quite familiar with the survivability of the US government in the event of a decapitating strike. However, I was focusing more towards the reactions of the populace and the subsequent actions of the governing structure.

Actually, there are a few secessionists all over, but as you said none of the movements are very large. The biggest of them is probably the Alaska Independence Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Independence_Party).

In November there was a meeting of secessionists in Vermont. Not many people showed up apparently, but they were from all over the place.

http://counterpunch.org/jansson12202006.htmlThe Republic of Texas secessionist party is probably one of the larger ones too. They're mostly right-wing fundies who think modern politics favor all those nasty homos, feminists and atheists.

Tell me, how many of our elected reps are Christian?
Over 400.

How many are Muslim?

One.

Actually, there are a few secessionists all over, but as you said none of the movements are very large. The biggest of them is probably the Alaska Independence Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Independence_Party).

In November there was a meeting of secessionists in Vermont. Not many people showed up apparently, but they were from all over the place.

http://counterpunch.org/jansson12202006.html

Ah, yes, the Alaskan Independence Party. Didn't the only guy elected on their ticket switch parties shortly thereafter?

Ah, yes, the Alaskan Independence Party. Didn't the only guy elected on their ticket switch parties shortly thereafter?

Yeah, they elected a guy to the Governor's mansion but he ignored the party's platform. They've elected a few guys to the Legislature I think, but not many. Still, that's better than most third parties in the US.

...

Dude, that reality would suck. Especially since I live not that far from Denver. I'd be forced to move to the FRP if it were a reality for real.

I would do the same in that reality, especially if my governor goes missing. I picked Jeb Bush because he wouldn't be doing anything else at the time, I don't think, and Dubya would be vaporized. I also had him doing all those horrible things because he was playing off people's fears. Maybe the government would withstand eventually, but there would be widespread panic and problems associated with having half the legislature, the entire executive, and probably the majority of the judiciary turned into radioactive ash.

And maybe New England would secede, but California would have a better shot unless New England roped NY and PA into it as well.