NationStates Jolt Archive

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Eight Marines face criminal charges or administrative punishment in connection with the killings of Iraqi civilians in the northwestern city of Haditha in November 2005, the Marine Corps announced Thursday.

Marine Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich will face 13 counts of murder. He will also face charges of making false statements to investigators and trying to persuade others to do the same, said his lawyer, Mark Zaid.

The attorneys for two other Marines said their clients have also been charged in the case.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/12/21/iraq.haditha/index.html

What do you think about this? Frankly I think it was murder, and I think its a good thing they're being charged.

Anyone?

Innocent until proven guilty.We'll see how it goes.

Innocent until proven guilty.We'll see how it goes.

Very true, I would never advocate convicting someone without a trial, but I am of the opinion that they are guilty.

Anyone?I'm not one of the jurors or judges. Innocent until proven guilty.

it show's how mess up it is over there

Well, yeah. I until G. But I'm glad this went to trial. There should always be this type of scrutiny in a military force.

I'm not one of the jurors or judges. Innocent until proven guilty.

I'm of the opinion that if you're not one of the jurors or judges or in any way connected to the trial you don't need to presume them innocent.

If they are innocent, set them free.
If they are guilty, then they are no marines, they are just another kind of terrorist, and should be treated accordingly.

Imprison them.

I wonder where Designated "support the Haditha Marines" Marksman is now.

I wonder where Designated "support the Haditha Marines" Marksman is now.

I haven't seen him, or Deep Kimchi in a while....Where is everyone?

Imprison them.

I wonder where Designated "support the Haditha Marines" Marksman is now.

He was last going under captain pooby, but hasn't been seen since.

I haven't seen him, or Deep Kimchi in a while....Where is everyone?


Deep Kimchi is now Eve Online.

Deep Kimchi is now Eve Online.

Oh, when did that happen?

Oh, when did that happen?


I dunno... I just noticed a poster that resembled DK and the more I read of that poster the clearer it became.

I hope they all get the death penalty. InshAllah they will.

I dunno... I just noticed a poster that resembled DK and the more I read of that poster the clearer it became.I'm not the only one that suspects it! :D

I'm not the only one that suspects it! :D

I don't suspect it... I know! :p

He was last going under captain pooby, but hasn't been seen since.

Speak of the devil, he's just gone active again...

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/search.php?searchid=647348 - 5 posts about 4 hours ago.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/12/21/iraq.haditha/index.html

What do you think about this? Frankly I think it was murder, and I think its a good thing they're being charged.

I say they should all be executed.

I say they should all be executed.
Ban the death penalty. There has been too much killing already.

Ban the death penalty. There has been too much killing already.

Under the UCMJ, a charge of murder carries the death penalty.

If those charged with murder are found guilty of it, they should be executed publicly for it.

Deep Kimchi is now Eve Online.
He had a sex change? :eek:

Under the UCMJ, a charge of murder carries the death penalty.

If those charged with murder are found guilty of it, they should be executed publicly for it.
Which you obviously support.

Which you obviously support.

Yes I do support the death penalty for those who are found guilty and undeniably so without any doubt. In this case, I have a feeling there is no doubt and with that being the case, let the UCMJ be enforced.

Yes I do support the death penalty for those who are found guilty and undeniably so without any doubt. In this case, I have a feeling there is no doubt and with that being the case, let the UCMJ be enforced.
I kinda rely on God to do the final judgement thingy. Until then, a nice long prison stay would be the best solution.

I kinda rely on God to do the final judgement thingy. Until then, a nice long prison stay would be the best solution.

You do have a problem though. According to our beliefs, if they confess their sins and mean it, then their sins are not recorded.

You do have a problem though. According to our beliefs, if they confess their sins and mean it, then their sins are not recorded.
You are referring to the afterlife that you would send them to earlier then when God would have recalled them. Nice try.

You are referring to the afterlife that you would send them to earlier then when God would have recalled them. Nice try.

If it is ment for these people to die by execution, they will die wether we want them too or not. However, my guess is it won't happen for quite a number of years because of appeals to the final judging authority on military matters.

Regardless... we need to stay the course in Iraq until it is filled with a thousand points of light and Sunni and Shia are united, not divided.

Regardless... we need to stay the course in Iraq until it is filled with a thousand points of light and Sunni and Shia are united, not divided.

Funniest thing I've read on NS in months.

If it is ment for these people to die by execution, they will die wether we want them too or not. However, my guess is it won't happen for quite a number of years because of appeals to the final judging authority on military matters.
If they are meant to die by execution, it will be due to mans' will, not God's will.

If they are meant to die by execution, it will be due to mans' will, not God's will.

I'm so tempted to say prove it but that is something that no one can prove.

I'm so tempted to say prove it but that is something that no one can prove.
I will give you a hint......He passed Ten Commandments to Moses.

I will give you a hint......He passed Ten Commandments to Moses.

You mean like thou shall not murder? I guess you need to study more for it is talking about the killing of innocent life. These guys are not innocent.

You mean like thou shall not murder? I guess you need to study more for it is talking about the killing of innocent life. These guys are not innocent.
No, as in Thou shalt not kill.

I will give you a hint......He passed Ten Commandments to Moses.

and moses taking the two tablets went forth into the desert?

commandments or laxatives is not quite clear

course later he was cross and smashed the tablets
wonder what the conversation was like after that

Look God gave me 15 really important commandments
you can still see bits of them if you look

thou shalt not ummm covet ummm

wives?
oxen?

yes yes that was a couple
and thou shalt not kill something
just leave it at kill

ok so with those others you mentioned we've got 10
how many did you say there were again

oh tens good, definitely ten


and thats how poor old
though shalt not infringe digital copyright got left out for millenia
thankfully its making a comeback now

-------------------------------------------------------------------

American war criminals should of course be tried and imprisoned

death penalty is abhorrent and only practiced or approved of by the deeply
uncivilised

and moses taking the two tablets went forth into the desert?

commandments or laxatives is not quite clear

course later he was cross and smashed the tablets
wonder what the conversation was like after that

Look God gave me 15 really important commandments
you can still see bits of them if you look

thou shalt not ummm covet ummm

wives?
oxen?

yes yes that was a couple
and thou shalt not kill something
just leave it at kill

ok so with those others you mentioned we've got 10
how many did you say there were again

oh tens good, definitely ten


and thats how poor old
though shalt not infringe digital copyright got left out for millenia
thankfully its making a comeback now

-------------------------------------------------------------------

American war criminals should of course be tried and imprisoned

death penalty is abhorrent and only practiced or approved of by the deeply
uncivilised
Too funny....great job!! :D

No, as in Thou shalt not kill.

As in the taking of innocent life. Now that we settled that, I'm off to bed. Hair cut and dr. appointments in the morning. Then going to clean my room up because I'm leaving to go to philly on Tuesday.

As in the taking of innocent life. Now that we settled that, I'm off to bed. Hair cut and dr. appointments in the morning. Then going to clean my room up because I'm leaving to go to philly on Tuesday.
Nothing is settled with you..... :p

Get thee gone.

Regardless... we need to stay the course in Iraq until it is filled with a thousand points of light and Sunni and Shia are united, not divided.

Hoo boy. -.-

No, as in Thou shalt not kill.

IIRC, the Bible explicitly approves of capital punishment.

I hope they all get the death penalty. InshAllah they will.

I read this, and you fail at islam. At least the islam you claim to adhere to,

Regardless... we need to stay the course in Iraq until it is filled with a thousand points of light and Sunni and Shia are united, not divided.

I hope that that was sarcasm....



And replying to the OP, has anyone thought about the situation in Iraq? One pass through town a squad will see an Iraqi waving at them. Next pass through town a day later and he's putting together an IED. Not a nice place to be in. I'm not defending indiscriminate murder but IMHO, there's just a tad too much bloodlust here.

Yes I do support the death penalty for those who are found guilty and undeniably so without any doubt. In this case, I have a feeling there is no doubt and with that being the case, let the UCMJ be enforced.

There is no such thing as without any doubt.

The scum deserve convictions and execution.

These Marines dishonored themselves and the Corps. Their civilian attorneys will try to paint the picture of Marines properly following the stated Rules of Engagement. I doubt very seriously if going out of control and breaking into homes and killing women, old men and children count within the Rules of Engagement.

The officers over them CLEARLY felt that the Rules of Engagement were broken, when they falsified official documents and failed to properly record and report the actions of the Marines underneath them.

Based on the (amended) reported actions, it seems to me that these Marines went on a rampage and clearly forgot themselves and murdered a bunch of Iraqi civilians in the heat of passion (This is why they are not charged with premeditated murder, but Murder in the Second Degree).

What will get lost in the shuffle is that stated US policy created these conditions and these Marines were put in a horrible position. This does not excuse their atrocities. It is my hope that this General Court is thorough and convicts these Marines of all of the charges and specifications.

They are undeserving of the uniform they wear and to pretend otherwise and make excuses for them is criminal.

I'm not the only one that suspects it! :D

Of course you'll have to give him some credit for being able to restrain his hardon for "MUST STERILIZE MUSLIMS!! EXTERMINATE!! EX-TER-MI-NATE!!" under the new puppet.

:D

Nothing is settled with you..... :p

Get thee gone.

LOL!

IIRC, the Bible explicitly approves of capital punishment.

Yup.

There is no such thing as without any doubt.

Actually there is, its called evidence. Its the defenses job to refute it and put doubt in the minds of the jury.

Actually there is, its called evidence. Its the defenses job to refute it and put doubt in the minds of the jury.

and at no point, in any circumstance, can evidence be considered to be without any doubt.

Name a piece of evidence and I'll tell you how it can be faked, altered, changed, corrupted or modified.

There is always, ALWAYS doubt, there is ALWAYS a chance that the evidence is wrong, there's ALWAYS a chance that the cop lied, there's ALWAYS a chance that your 1 in 100 billion DNA matching buddy just happened to commit the crime, and not you.

There is always, ALWAYS doubt. It is therefore not the job of a defense attorney to put doubt in the minds of the jury. It is the job of the defense attorney to put REASONABLE doubt into their minds, and that is a very, VERY different thing than no doubt at all

and at no point, in any circumstance, can evidence be considered to be without any doubt.

Name a piece of evidence and I'll tell you how it can be faked, altered, changed, corrupted or modified.

Fingerprints, DNA, Balistics.

The enlisted are all being charged with Murder, while the officers only face Dereliction of Duty.

Brass Flies, Grunt Fries.

An American Military Tradition.

Fingerprints

Fingerprints are not done by taking a picture of one fingerprint and overlaying it over another and seeing if they match. They look for matching points, and in many instances the number of those points is subjective. A "matched" fingerprint doesn't mean they are identical, it only means that there are a number of matched points

DNA

Two human beings can, theoretically, have the same DNA, while the odds are extremely small, it is possible.

Balistics.

The odds of two gun barrels giving off similar striations to the point that a human eye can not discern the difference is actually more likely than a false positive DNA match.

And once again, a cop can...lie.

Now I'm not saying it's likely, or even reasonable. But it's still doubt to SOME degree. It is POSSIBLE. And where there is POSSIBLE, there is doubt.

The enlisted are all being charged with Murder, while the officers only face Dereliction of Duty.

Brass Flies, Grunt Fries.

An American Military Tradition.

I think in this case is appropriate. It's not like the officers gave them orders to murder, they tried to cover it after the fact. If they took a more active part in the actions, then they should share the same punishment.

Fingerprints are not done by taking a picture of one fingerprint and overlaying it over another and seeing if they match. They look for matching points, and in many instances the number of those points is subjective. A "matched" fingerprint doesn't mean they are identical, it only means that there are a number of matched points



Two human beings can, theoretically, have the same DNA, while the odds are extremely small, it is possible.



The odds of two gun barrels giving off similar striations to the point that a human eye can not discern the difference is actually more likely than a false positive DNA match.

And once again, a cop can...lie.

Now I'm not saying it's likely, or even reasonable. But it's still doubt to SOME degree. It is POSSIBLE. And where there is POSSIBLE, there is doubt.

And thus defense attorneys to cast such doubt. Failure to do so results in convictions.

The enlisted are all being charged with Murder, while the officers only face Dereliction of Duty.

Brass Flies, Grunt Fries.

An American Military Tradition.

Don't underestimate the power of a "Dereliction of Duty" charge on an officer. If it sticks as the result of a General Court, the BEST an Officer may expect is a General Discharge. Having seen this system first hand as a member of court martial board, such a conviction is death "by papercuts." Their military career is wrecked and all of the plum jobs they COULD have gotten in the civilian sector will not be available to them. Not to mention the fact that because of the profile of this case, I would assess some prison time might be in the offing as well.

Remember, this DOD charge is the equal of a Class A felony in a General Court Martial. It is the strongest charge the military could have brought on the supervisory officers outside of direct involvement.

The key here is the level of Court Martial the service member faces. A conviction in a General Court Martial is considered a federal conviction and stays on their record for life.

Oh...and yes the death penalty may be imposed, but it requires a unanimous conviction by the members of the Court, anything less and a lesser sentence will be imposed.