NationStates Jolt Archive

I was just thinking about this in another thread.

Religions used to be able to evolve.

Even when writing had been invented books were so rare that if corrections needed to me made to make things up to date they could be.

So I was thinking that once they invented the printing press that religions in general were suddenly forced into a false stagnation.

Sure they do still evolve. I mean, hey, look at the Anglican church with women priest and even a gay priest, but in general they are still tied to a set of rules laid down for a different time.

Religions used to be able to revitalise themselves in ways other than just getting a new prophet. But with the invention of the printing press they were fighting an uphill battle because the masses could get their hands on a copy of the original work and decide for themselves.

Put it this way, the printing press inspired Luther to translate the bible into something other than Greek or Latin.

I would say it was the rise of literacy moreso than the printing press that did it; the printing press democratized knowledge while literacy enabled people to actually access it in the first place. As a result of increased literacy, people became able to understand those texts and construct a more personal spirituality; indeed, one of the main underlying points behind the Reformation was the concept of individual interpretation of Scripture, and the printing press/literacy were its enablers.

If you look at the evolution of religion during the Greco-Roman period, there was a similar burst of religious innovation that coincided with the rise in literacy and increase in trade along the Mediterranean. Indeed, syncretism didn't really die until education and availability of written works declined in the latter part of the Roman Empire and beyond.

it's allowed people to read the torah in their language and allowed them to be able to read the most greatly accepted interpretations

before then, the wealthy (those who knew how to read) and the priests were the only ones who had access to religious texts.

once people started getting copies for themselves, they no longer needed the priests to tell them what God said: they had it right there in front of them.

People began to discover god and think about god for themselves, which I believe led to the decline of organized religion, if not religion as a whole

Put it this way, the printing press inspired Luther to translate the bible into something other than Greek or Latin.

Exactly. The printing press was the main impetus for the protestant reformation. The vast majority of all early pressings were protestant texts, and if I recall correctly, the king of France at the time banned the printing press as a result.

before then, the wealthy (those who knew how to read) and the priests were the only ones who had access to religious texts.

once people started getting copies for themselves, they no longer needed the priests to tell them what God said: they had it right there in front of them.

People began to discover god and think about god for themselves, which I believe led to the decline of organized religion, if not religion as a whole

Yeah I wasn't suggesting it was the end of faith for a second... just organised religion.

how many times has religion pronounced dead?

I dont see it going away anytime soon.

how many times has religion pronounced dead?

I dont see it going away anytime soon.

welcome to the boards.

nice first post, but next time: read the rest of the thread first

Well the Catholic Church has more members today than it ever has in the past. Printing press or not.

how many times has religion pronounced dead?

I dont see it going away anytime soon.

That's because the anti-christmas alliance didn't have the benefit of my strategic genius before now.

I dont know....look at the Catholic church. Its membership has grown more in the past 100 years than it did in the 1900 before that. Hardly sounds like a death. Sounds like thriving as never before.

Well the Catholic Church has more members today than it ever has in the past. Printing press or not.

Correct there are still plenty of those with the catholic faith. But is the church as strong as it used to be. Do people have as much faith in the church as they once did?

Like I said.. not religion as a whole.. but organised religion.

Correct there are still plenty of those with the catholic faith. But is the church as strong as it used to be. Do people have as much faith in the church as they once did?

Like I said.. not religion as a whole.. but organised religion.

Still? Membership has doubled in less than 100 years. That makes the Catholic faith stronger than ever.

A big, fat "I wish" to the title of this thread.

But in answer to the question...no. Unfortunately.

Yeah somthing that doubles in the most recent 1/40th of its existance is not "dying".

Yeah somthing that doubles in the most recent 1/40th of its existance is not "dying".

There are more catholics now, but do they believe in it as much as the catholics that went before them?

I would say no. Most people cherry pick their religion these days - especially in the US - and tend to just pretend the bits of it they don't like just don't exists. (Admittedly this is not because they have particularly though out why in most cases, but just because they want to keep some type of feel good live and let live hippy crap going).

Indeed I would argue that the longer a religion is in contact with secularism, the less and less relevant most of its tenents are to those who identify with it, until you reach a situtation like sweden or england where 70% of people identify with the church when asked, but no-on ever goes or even particularly believes in god. In that sense, despite the overall numbers, religion is still on the wane.

There is a big lack of faith in the USA and Europe because of the embracement of moral relativism that comes with "Democracy".

I don't know...someone said to me the other day that they were happy so many societies had 'killed god'...but I compare the bible thumping I saw back in my (not so long ago hahaha) youth, to now? Hardly dead, that bastard. Hardly.

Many philosophers have declared God dead.

Most of them are now dead.

Belief in God is as strong as ever.

Many philosophers have declared God dead.

Most of them are now dead.

Belief in God is as strong as ever.

In order for God to die, he would have to have been alive at some point...and I personally think he's still quite alive and kicking for that matter.

I just always think it is ironic when I hear about the "death of religion". I was an atheist and am now a devout traditional Catholic. I can only wish the same blessing on others.

I dont know....look at the Catholic church. Its membership has grown more in the past 100 years than it did in the 1900 before that. Hardly sounds like a death. Sounds like thriving as never before.

at the start of the last century the human species numbered around one billion

one hundred years later we number over six billion

a numerical rise in memberships represents nothing
a proportional rise in memberships tells a truer story

The printing press gave religion (or Christianity, rather) to the people.

Literacy didn't kill religion, and it's debatable whether it's dying. But literacy did cause an enormous change in the nature of religion. Before, religion was whatever a priest said it was. If they said that God ordered them to launch a Crusade against the evil Muslims, who was the common person to disagree.

But when the common man could read for himself, he could point to passages that dispute the priests.

Literacy didn't kill religion, but it did break the priesthoods stranglehold on it.

I am kind of against the idea of a collective church, I think religion should be a personal thing. Not following the particular set of interpretations by one organization, but by following your own interpretation.

Though I am also for a united church, to promote good works, charity and to unite it's people.

Confusing eh

I am kind of against the idea of a collective church, I think religion should be a personal thing. Not following the particular set of interpretations by one organization, but by following your own interpretation.

Though I am also for a united church, to promote good works, charity and to unite it's people.

Confusing eh

Not really. You want a church that does all the good things that churches do, without all the bad things that organised religion enables.

It's quite clear and sane, really.

As for the OP, I have to say that it is a cool question. A printing press would slow the rate at which the text could evolve, but on the other hand, a printing press enables a larger group of people to interact with the text. The addition of so many variables and interpretations would act as a goad to accelerate changes in the text itself.

Maybe that's why we have so many denominations now. Instead of the text evolving, the religions around the text evolved.

I was just thinking about this in another thread.

Religions used to be able to evolve.

Even when writing had been invented books were so rare that if corrections needed to me made to make things up to date they could be.

So I was thinking that once they invented the printing press that religions in general were suddenly forced into a false stagnation.

Sure they do still evolve. I mean, hey, look at the Anglican church with women priest and even a gay priest, but in general they are still tied to a set of rules laid down for a different time.

Religions used to be able to revitalise themselves in ways other than just getting a new prophet. But with the invention of the printing press they were fighting an uphill battle because the masses could get their hands on a copy of the original work and decide for themselves.

Actually,the printing press helped spread Lutherian ideas back in the 1500s.He got his ideas to Oxford within ten days,which is pretty quick back then.

A big, fat "I wish" to the title of this thread.

Intolerant!

There is a big lack of faith in the USA and Europe because of the embracement of moral relativism that comes with "Democracy".
What's wrong with democracy?

I just always think it is ironic when I hear about the "death of religion". I was an atheist and am now a devout traditional Catholic. I can only wish the same blessing on others.
You wish others would consider themselves horrible, horrible sinners and hate themselves too? What a horrible thing to wish on someone else.

Yeah somthing that doubles in the most recent 1/40th of its existance is not "dying".

Most new catholic conversions are in Africa, where, like medieval Europe, illiteracy is very high. Once Africa is educated, religion will inevitably decline there too.