NationStates Jolt Archive

It is obvious that the communists and socialists far outnumber everyone else on NationStates. Personally, I have trouble understanding how it can be so. Could anyone attempt to give me an explanation?

we are mostly European and as are nations are democratic socialist you can understand if we tend to uphold the principles we* vote for

Plus Socialism is clever

*well the ones old enough

And many Americans on here are quite anti-capitalist, mainly because all the capitalism pisses us all off....

Couple reasons:

Nationstates is a game that's likely to drag in the politically active/interested, espescially those whose beliefs are rather rare and isolated, because the concept of NS allows them to operate a "state" much according to their own whims. Knowing that communists and socialists have so little influence in anything that happens anymore, it makes fine sense to find a lot of them in such a place.

Age demographics, you're likely to find a higher quantity of communists and socialists amongst the NS age demographic, then you are in the general population.


Both of these reasons also explain why we've got a larger quantity of libertarians here on NSG than one would expect to find in the general population.

And many Americans on here are quite anti-capitalist, mainly because all the capitalism pisses us all off....

I can infer that much, my question was why.

Beyond that, we ruthlessly shatter most everyone who's a novice with this stuff, and your average "conservative" or "liberal" is exactly that; a novice. We assault them and run them off when they show up. The only ones who have the staying power and 'expertise' in their area are libertarians and far-left types.

I can infer that much, my question was why.

I said why. Capitalism pisses us off.

I can infer that much, my question was why.

anti-capitalists watch weeble and bob...

I said why. Capitalism pisses us off.

Why does capitalism "piss" you off?

Beyond that, we ruthlessly shatter most everyone who's a novice with this stuff, and your average "conservative" or "liberal" is exactly that; a novice. We assault them and run them off when they show up. The only ones who have the staying power and 'expertise' in their area are libertarians and far-left types.

That or they hang around and spam a lot while avoiding the very political threads

>.>
<.<

Why does capitalism "piss" you off?

you ask allot of questions for a non-government member*eyes narrow*

That or they hang around and spam a lot while avoiding the very political threads

>.>
<.<

spam = beautiful

Why does capitalism "piss" you off?

It's basically "first come first serve" and nobody can really get anywhere.

spam = beautiful

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:fluffle:

That or they hang around and spam a lot while avoiding the very political threads

>.>
<.<

*spams*

spam = beautiful

Spam is the most beautiful thing on the Internet.

:fluffle:

*spams*

:fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:

It is obvious that the communists and socialists far outnumber everyone else on NationStates. Personally, I have trouble understanding how it can be so. Could anyone attempt to give me an explanation?

say what

*spams*

that i can under stand
:fluffle:

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that i can under stand
:fluffle:

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It is obvious that the communists and socialists far outnumber everyone else on NationStates. Personally, I have trouble understanding how it can be so. Could anyone attempt to give me an explanation?

Not everyone to the left of you is a communist or a socialist.

I'm not a commie, but I know that when I came here origionally, I went from being a moderate lefty to a flaming Anarcho-syndacalist. It's a groupthink thing.

You'll notice that I have since moved dramatically to the right and I now sit a few points to the right of where I started. Mostly, this was because I came to reject communism as essentially as tyranical and anti-individual as capitalism is.

Beyond that, we ruthlessly shatter most everyone who's a novice with this stuff, and your average "conservative" or "liberal" is exactly that; a novice. We assault them and run them off when they show up. The only ones who have the staying power and 'expertise' in their area are libertarians and far-left types.


Ummm, I suppose that's one explanation.

The other possibility is that those of us with realisitic political philosophies see that there is no point in debating with people who are hopelessly close-minded about things and we lurk.

Beyond that, this forum is good entertainment, much like Rush Limbaugh is. It's good for a laugh and some "knee-jerk reactionary" analysis of todays news.

Beyond that, we ruthlessly shatter most everyone who's a novice with this stuff, and your average "conservative" or "liberal" is exactly that; a novice. We assault them and run them off when they show up. The only ones who have the staying power and 'expertise' in their area are libertarians and far-left types.

There are plenty of moderates on the site too, you know. It's just that most of the new American conservatives that pop up think that many of us moderates are some kind of odd far-left type of people, when really, we're not. I know I'm not a far leftist except in a social sense, as a social libertarian.

In theory Socialism/Communism sounds like a good ideas. It is in practice where it gets complicated.

It easy to do the "right" thing when you can not see the consequences of your actions and you do not have to pay for them. Also the left/right thing is kind of flawed. Left compared with whom and right compared with whom?

Conservative is not necessarily Republican
Liberal is not necessarily Democrat

Socialist is more of an economic concept to me.

Communist-----Socialist------Capitalist------????

"If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain."
- Attributed to various people in various forms, but probably wasn't uttered by Winston Churchill.

Not everyone to the left of you is a communist or a socialist.

True
many people to the left of the average american are to the right of centre in economic terms at least.

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In all seriousness, it's because of the EBIL influence of NationStates. It's probably that lefties happened to be more prevalent in the past and drew more lefties towards this forum, like a magnet. Except it works the other way and stuff. Yeah. Damn commies are everywhere.

It is obvious that the communists and socialists far outnumber everyone else on NationStates. Personally, I have trouble understanding how it can be so. Could anyone attempt to give me an explanation?It's funny how you assume that because leftists and moderates seem to outnumber right wingers they must all be socialist or communist.

There are plenty of moderates on the site too, you know. It's just that most of the new American conservatives that pop up think that many of us moderates are some kind of odd far-left type of people, when really, we're not. I know I'm not a far leftist except in a social sense, as a social libertarian.

Shh... You're going to give us away!

Given that a sizable chunk of NS seems to want to almost totally abolish government pretty much anyone sensible is going to come across as an authoritarian extreme leftist wierdo.

Given that a sizable chunk of NS seems to want to almost totally abolish government pretty much anyone sensible is going to come across as an authoritarian extreme leftist wierdo.
A lot of the people who want to abolish the government are, themselves, far-left. See DHomme and Free Soviets.

And the reason that there are no capitalists here is that they are all out making money and not sharing it with anybody, as is their wont. Communists, on the other hand, are happy so long as they are engaging in a futile pursuit that can't do anyone any good, so arguing on the internet fits the bill just as well as trying to instate unrealistic systems of resource distribution.

A lot of the people who want to abolish the government are, themselves, far-left. See DHomme and Free Soviets.

And the reason that there are no capitalists here is that they are all out making money and not sharing it with anybody, as is their wont. Communists, on the other hand, are happy so long as they are engaging in a futile pursuit that can't do anyone any good, so arguing on the internet fits the bill just as well as trying to instate unrealistic systems of resource distribution.

Very well put.

Plus the moderates tend to not feel as strongly as some of the other do on certain issues i.e. Iraq and for that matter most of the Middle East, government, our president

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It's funny how you assume that because leftists and moderates seem to outnumber right wingers they must all be socialist or communist.

When they want a fully controlled market I think that they could be considered a communist.

It is obvious that the communists and socialists far outnumber everyone else on NationStates. Personally, I have trouble understanding how it can be so. Could anyone attempt to give me an explanation?

Christ has abandoned the jolt forums to the godless, perverted philosophy of communism in retribution for the many trolls and spammers.

That's why jolt crashes every few hours, as well.

When they want a fully controlled market I think that they could be considered a communist.Yeah well if they want a totally free market they can be considered insane. But why don't you start a poll. I have my doubts that the fully controlled market people will outnumber the rest.

Because lefties are lazy and like to sit on their asses all day complaining about "the government", "society", and "the world" in general.

That may also be why many of them are emo too.

It is obvious that the communists and socialists far outnumber everyone else on NationStates.

my sense has been that there are actually more american libs and social dems than actual socialists. we do have a rather large rotating cast of anarchos though and we tend to get involved in a lot of the arguments here, which inflates our presence even more.

Because lefties are lazy and like to sit on their asses all day complaining about "the government", "society", and "the world" in general.

That may also be why many of them are emo too.

Have you ever stood on a picket line? Nope, because only "lefties" would do that. There is nothin "lazy" about fighting for what you believe in. NS is only one part of what I do. I am an activist (I know, kind of strange for a person living in Montana), but I do try to fight for causes I believe.

What have you done recently? Probably nothing.

my sense has been that there are actually more american libs and social dems than actual socialists. we do have a rather large rotating cast of anarchos though and we tend to get involved in a lot of the arguments here, which inflates our presence even more.

That might be part of it, but the polls at least show that one third of active members consider themselves socialists/communists. That's a considerable amount, probably the largest single coherant group on NS. Its far from a majority, but it is large and very vocal. And constantly growing, I might add. The social dems and the american libs aren't as vocal, and many of them end up sliding radically in some direction.

Spam is the most beautiful thing on the Internet.

:fluffle:


You don't watch a lot of porn, do you? :p

(Kidding, I know you're like fifteen and asexual or something like that)

It is obvious that the communists and socialists far outnumber everyone else on NationStates. Personally, I have trouble understanding how it can be so. Could anyone attempt to give me an explanation?

Most communist and socialist ideas are absolute failures in the real world,so they retreat here in to a fantasy world,to prevent themselves from losing faith in their principles.Here,against all human experience,the rightwing nations like my own dont destroy the communist ones econimically,they manage to come off pretty good.This is a result of Max Barrys well known political bias.

That might be part of it, but the polls at least show that one third of active members consider themselves socialists/communists. That's a considerable amount, probably the largest single coherant group on NS. Its far from a majority, but it is large and very vocal. And constantly growing, I might add. The social dems and the american libs aren't as vocal, and many of them end up sliding radically in some direction.

Sadly I agree with judgement that one-third of the NS people are commies,altough "coherent" is a bit unrealistic.:p

Most communist and socialist ideas are absolute failures in the real world,so they retreat here in to a fantasy world,to prevent themselves from losing faith in their principles.Here,against all human experience,the rightwing nations like my own dont destroy the communist ones econimically,they manage to come off pretty good.This is a result of Max Barrys well known political bias.

'Well-known political bias'? Where's the evidence for that spurious claim, then? And explain the millions of communists/socialists and other left-wingers who aren't on Nationstates. They don't seem to be 'losing their faith' in the real world, do they?

It is obvious that the communists and socialists far outnumber everyone else on NationStates.

No, it isn't.

Most communist and socialist ideas are absolute failures in the real world,so they retreat here in to a fantasy world,to prevent themselves from losing faith in their principles.Here,against all human experience,the rightwing nations like my own dont destroy the communist ones econimically,they manage to come off pretty good.This is a result of Max Barrys well known political bias.

1. Don't make claims you can't back up. Many socialists are very active in promoting their causes.

2. Economically, there is a lot of evidence that should say that actual socialist nations (the ones that allow worker self management, not the Bolshevik bureaucratic collectivists) would be more economically efficent than capitalist nations.

3. Max Barry is a centrist civil libertarian. I commend him for trying to be unbiased with this game. This game, if anything, is not responsive to real leftwing ideas.

It's basically "first come first serve" and nobody can really get anywhere.

Would you rather have a system where personal effort was underplayed at the expense of providing a free ride to those who don't exert themselves?

Would you rather have a system where personal effort was underplayed at the expense of providing a free ride to those who don't exert themselves?

The "free rider" straw man strikes again! If anything, capitalism creates the free rider.

The "free rider" straw man strikes again! If anything, capitalism creates the free rider.

Please, explain. All facts seem to dictate otherwise.

'Well-known political bias'? Where's the evidence for that spurious claim, then? And explain the millions of communists/socialists and other left-wingers who aren't on Nationstates. They don't seem to be 'losing their faith' in the real world, do they?

Communist Party(at least in america)and all other leftish parties like Greens are spiraling out of existence with declining membership.Protests attract far fewer people than they used to.Democrats are finally driving out the socialists in their ranks,with the new senators and congressman elected that oppose radical socialism.Ned Lamonts landslide defeat I think hurt them a lot.Republicans at the same time becoming a solid right party,with the Lincoln Chafees and Christopher Shays routed in the northeast.We are defeating them,slowly but surely.

Would you rather have a system where personal effort was underplayed at the expense of providing a free ride to those who don't exert themselves?

Yes, absolutely.

Communist Party(at least in america)and all other leftish parties like Greens are spiraling out of existence with declining membership.Protests attract far fewer people than they used to.Democrats are finally driving out the socialists in their ranks,with the new senators and congressman elected that oppose radical socialism.Ned Lamonts landslide defeat I think hurt them a lot.Republicans at the same time becoming a solid right party,with the Lincoln Chafees and Christopher Shays routed in the northeast.We are defeating them,slowly but surely.

In America, at least. Now take a look at Europe, Russia, and South America, and tell me that socialists are being driven back.

Communist Party(at least in america)and all other leftish parties like Greens are spiraling out of existence with declining membership.Protests attract far fewer people than they used to.Democrats are finally driving out the socialists in their ranks,with the new senators and congressman elected that oppose radical socialism.Ned Lamonts landslide defeat I think hurt them a lot.Republicans at the same time becoming a solid right party,with the Lincoln Chafees and Christopher Shays routed in the northeast.We are defeating them,slowly but surely.

And what about the personal attacks on Maz Barry? Evidence for his supposed 'biases'?

Please, explain. All facts seem to dictate otherwise.

What do you think an "absentee owner" is. Any property owner for that matter. They are the free riders. They do not labor, yet they get the fruits of labor.

Communist Party(at least in america)and all other leftish parties like Greens are spiraling out of existence with declining membership.Protests attract far fewer people than they used to.Democrats are finally driving out the socialists in their ranks,with the new senators and congressman elected that oppose radical socialism.Ned Lamonts landslide defeat I think hurt them a lot.Republicans at the same time becoming a solid right party,with the Lincoln Chafees and Christopher Shays routed in the northeast.We are defeating them,slowly but surely.

No, they're not. Leftwing parties in the US are gaining strength. Activism is up all accross the nation, and now there is a serious academic debate about socialism. One of the most famous public figures in the US is Noam Chomsky, an anarchist socialist. His books are widely read on the left and have inspired a new radical left movement in the US. Even here in conservative montana, I can guaruntee that at least fifteen percent of my high school are socialists.

Communist Party(at least in america)and all other leftish parties like Greens are spiraling out of existence with declining membership.Protests attract far fewer people than they used to.Democrats are finally driving out the socialists in their ranks,with the new senators and congressman elected that oppose radical socialism.Ned Lamonts landslide defeat I think hurt them a lot.Republicans at the same time becoming a solid right party,with the Lincoln Chafees and Christopher Shays routed in the northeast.We are defeating them,slowly but surely.Reality isn't limited to America.

Yes, absolutely.

Okay. In such a state, what incentives would exist? Humanity is about the preservation of the self above all others. Where could such a system exist that every member lives to preserve every other, at the expense of losing the primary driving force in human progress?

1. Don't make claims you can't back up. Many socialists are very active in promoting their causes.

2. Economically, there is a lot of evidence that should say that actual socialist nations (the ones that allow worker self management, not the Bolshevik bureaucratic collectivists) would be more economically efficent than capitalist nations.

3. Max Barry is a centrist civil libertarian. I commend him for trying to be unbiased with this game. This game, if anything, is not responsive to real leftwing ideas.

Oh there active alright,but declining in numbers.Also where can a find a single example of a socialist economy beating out a capitalist one.Russia?France?Angola?Where?You can see it looking at the map of usa,the northern states are getting crushed in terms of growth by the southern red states.Socialism is a discredited notion.He may be a centrist civil libertairan,but you can see that he tried to make sure all political philosophys ended with good results in order to make it fair.Hence my reasoning.

What do you think an "absentee owner" is. Any property owner for that matter. They are the free riders. They do not labor, yet they get the fruits of labor.

It's not about the labor, per se. It's about the capability of the owner to exert influence over the laborers, and the laborers' capacity for being influence. Controlled, if you will. And in many cases, I daresay most, the owner is the laborer.

Okay. In such a state, what incentives would exist? Humanity is about the preservation of the self above all others. Where could such a system exist that every member lives to preserve every other, at the expense of losing the primary driving force in human progress?

Aha,a smart person on NS.

Reality isn't limited to America.

Well okay,lets look at china.Were the people where ruined by socialism under Mao Zedong,then they got a raging Reagenite in the form of Deng Xiaoping,who created a capitalist society thats growing very rapidly.

In such a state, what incentives would exist?

The ones that would not exist are ones that I would not want to exist.

I don't believe in compelling labor.

Humanity is about the preservation of the self above all others.

No, it isn't, and it never has been.

Any human who behaved purely as a selfish profit-maximizer would be (rightly) regarded as depraved in any human society.

Well okay,lets look at china.Were the people where ruined by socialism under Mao Zedong,then they got a raging Reagenite in the form of Deng Xiaoping,who created a capitalist society thats growing very rapidly.Meh. You're not worth the bother.

Any human who behaved purely as a selfish profit-maximizer would be (rightly) regarded as depraved in any human society.

Unless they were good at profit maximisation, in which case they could buy loyalty, power, social accpetance, etc.

Yay capitolism.:p

I think that the reasom there are more communists and socialists here is that all the capitalist/conservative-ish type people are doing things like shopping in their spare time, instead of going on the internet and playing Nationstates. :)

It is obvious that the communists and socialists far outnumber everyone else on NationStates. Personally, I have trouble understanding how it can be so. Could anyone attempt to give me an explanation?
Youth, and also, socialists aren't here is in such huge numbers anyway. Go into the maximum wage thread. There are a hell of a lot of libertarians here.

Unless they were good at profit maximisation, in which case they could buy loyalty, power, social accpetance, etc.

Actually, that is rather doubtful.

At best they might get superficial flattery, but most people can recognize that, and seek more.

Yay capitolism.

Capitalism is vile and loathsome.

Most communist and socialist ideas are absolute failures in the real world,so they retreat here in to a fantasy world,to prevent themselves from losing faith in their principles.Here,against all human experience,the rightwing nations like my own dont destroy the communist ones econimically,they manage to come off pretty good.This is a result of Max Barrys well known political bias.
Socialism always fails in the real world because America always intervenes to destroy it.

Republicans at the same time becoming a solid right party,with the Lincoln Chafees and Christopher Shays routed in the northeast.We are defeating them,slowly but surely.
America is always going to be capitalist. There haven't been a significant socialist movement in your country for decades (and no far left of the Democratic party), so your ramble (which ignores Bernie Sanders) is really irrelevant.

Oh there active alright,but declining in numbers.Also where can a find a single example of a socialist economy beating out a capitalist one.Russia?France?Angola?Where?
You think France is socialist? :headbang:

Cuba is doing better than most of capitalist South America, despite massive US efforts to stop them.

You can see it looking at the map of usa,the northern states are getting crushed in terms of growth by the southern red states.
Yet the south still constantly requires federal welfare.

bump <.<

Most communist and socialist ideas are absolute failures in the real world,so they retreat here in to a fantasy world,to prevent themselves from losing faith in their principles.Here,against all human experience,the rightwing nations like my own dont destroy the communist ones econimically,they manage to come off pretty good.This is a result of Max Barrys well known political bias.

This is SO true! That's why Canada and several small, European countries are now lands rampant with murder, theft, and roving mobs of people who used to be millionaires but are now petty criminals.

I sure hope someone does something about those places.

Have you ever stood on a picket line? Nope, because only "lefties" would do that. There is nothin "lazy" about fighting for what you believe in. NS is only one part of what I do. I am an activist (I know, kind of strange for a person living in Montana), but I do try to fight for causes I believe.

What have you done recently? Probably nothing.
Have a sense of humour, will you?

You want to know what I've done lately? I started an anti-homophobia campaign in my school, rallied against the cutting of BC's old growth forest, protested with the teachers when they went on strike over labour issues, amongst other things. It was a joke.

I said why. Capitalism pisses us off.

Not me. I like capitalism as long as it's reglated properly. It creates wealth and spurs technological development.

This is SO true! That's why Canada and several small, European countries are now lands rampant with murder, theft, and roving mobs of people who used to be millionaires but are now petty criminals.

I sure hope someone does something about those places.

And that's why Antwerp is a festering cesspool of urban wreckage, full of hobos and degenerates nowadays.

Europe and Canada are socialist? According to who, Enodscopia?

Europe and Canada are socialist? According to who, Enodscopia?

I said some small countries in Europe. Canada IS socialist, to a degree, last I heard.

I could just be another stupid American.

Even if it's not pure socialism, these countries still have a balanced socialist approach to government. They're doing fine.

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:D