NationStates Jolt Archive

A mysterious van pulls up. It comes to a stop and two men jump out. They quickly set up a nativity scene and drive off. This sort of heinous crime is happening in Florida and police seem powerless to stop it. The people responsible don't seem to care how many innocent bystanders may be exposed to their religion. What kind of depraved person would do such a thing?

In all honesty I think some folks seem to be taking this "war on Xmas" thing a little too seriously.

http://www.metro.co.uk/weird/article.html?in_article_id=29420&in_page_id=2

I saw one of those on the sidewalk after I got my filling at the dentist, only it was mounted on a truck and it was about abortion. That picture was HIDEOUS! UGGH! *vomits*

Though I like the reactions of the towns people before this drive by happened

They were all pissed about the "War on Christmas" when the original was stole

Want to bet they never even cared till the tradition changed (through theft or design) Then all the sudden people were not blindly following their faith and it became a big deal

Terrorists!

I agree, people are taking the so-called 'War On Christmas' a little too far. If I lived there, I think I'd be rearranging the nativity scene and putting the baby Jesus into suggestive positions...

I don't have a "War on Christmass" thing going on but I am a bit cynical about the plauge that is decorate-your-house-in-as-many-gaudy-christmass-lights-as-possible slowly but surely spreading accross ther UK here.

It just smacks of a "More Festive than thou" kind of attitude where the meaning of christmass is becoming a competition to see who is most, well, Festive. "The Grinch" captures what I'm talking about perfectly.

I agree, people are taking the so-called 'War On Christmas' a little too far. If I lived there, I think I'd be rearranging the nativity scene and putting the baby Jesus into suggestive positions...


I just laughed at that

*smacks self* bad Christian!

I kinda like it... it's non-violent, a bit silly, and probably a lot of fun to do.

hmmmmm.........

I thought that was hilarious.

Perhaps it was a parody of the War on Christmas, perpetrated by a local artist. Anyways, it appears that the local community seem to have a very interactive approach to public displays of Christmas.

Perhaps Jello Biafra would be accepted there.

DCD, if you want to do "drive by religion", stop by a Catholic girls school, and tell the first girl you meet that you're the Angel of the Lord, and that you're going to impregnate her.

Then, after you finish, zip up and drive away.

There is a nativity scene on the village commons where I live. I simply ignore it when I walk by.

The Catholic church is right across the street from the commons so no drive-bys are neccessary anyway. :p

Is someone did that in my street, that shit would be on ebay so fast....

The photo, at the top of the article...

...Does Mary have her tits out?

A mysterious van pulls up. It comes to a stop and two men jump out. They quickly set up a nativity scene and drive off. This sort of heinous crime is happening in Florida and police seem powerless to stop it. The people responsible don't seem to care how many innocent bystanders may be exposed to their religion. What kind of depraved person would do such a thing?

In all honesty I think some folks seem to be taking this "war on Xmas" thing a little too seriously.

http://www.metro.co.uk/weird/article.html?in_article_id=29420&in_page_id=2

Hahahaha. That's just funny.

*Hummer drives up* "The power of Christ compels you!" *Bible thrown into your face and the Hummer drives off*

I don't have a "War on Christmass" thing going on but I am a bit cynical about the plauge that is decorate-your-house-in-as-many-gaudy-christmass-lights-as-possible slowly but surely spreading accross ther UK here.

It just smacks of a "More Festive than thou" kind of attitude where the meaning of christmass is becoming a competition to see who is most, well, Festive. "The Grinch" captures what I'm talking about perfectly.

Exactly -- and never mind how much electricity it wastes. Opulent displays piss me off. I even think Vegas should turn off its lights during daylight hours. Seriously, what's the need?

DCD, if you want to do "drive by religion", stop by a Catholic girls school, and tell the first girl you meet that you're the Angel of the Lord, and that you're going to impregnate her.

Then, after you finish, zip up and drive away.

It does make one wonder what type of car the Angel of the Lord would drive.

DCD, if you want to do "drive by religion", stop by a Catholic girls school, and tell the first girl you meet that you're the Angel of the Lord, and that you're going to impregnate her.

Then, after you finish, zip up and drive away.
...

That sounds like a LOT of fun, actually. :D

Morganatron: A DeLorean. No question about it.

...

That sounds like a LOT of fun, actually. :D

Morganatron: A DeLorean. No question about it.

Yeah, I guess if the Angel of the Lord came down from heaven in a DeLorean, I guess I'd let him work his will on me. :p

Why are we going through this again? I thought the whole deal was about freedom of religion, not necessarily freedom from religion. If a community wants a Nativity Scene, what right do the ACLU and militant atheists have to stop them? I'm not a Christian, but I do like tradition, and these idiots who feel personally insulted by other's expressions of faith, tradition, etc., are immature blockheads who need to grow up. I like Christmas whatever the reason for it is, I like getting together with family and friends, I like getting and giving gifts, I like the Christmas day feast, I like the music, I like the renewal of hope, I like it all and, as an agnostic, I resent the militant, fundamentalist atheists who want to take it away.

I saw one of those on the sidewalk after I got my filling at the dentist, only it was mounted on a truck and it was about abortion. That picture was HIDEOUS! UGGH! *vomits*

Those pctures are normally faked. I heard somehwere that they take them when the aborted fetus is 20 weeks along or something, I'll ahve to check again. :(

i'm an atheist and i don't really care about traditions, but i kind of like it. it seems fun to do, and nobody got hurt, so why not?

"war on Christmas"

only in America.

If it had been drive-by mosque setups, they'd have an entire SWAT team on patrol.

That's... bizarre.

It does make one wonder what type of car the Angel of the Lord would drive.

I don't know about an Angel of the Lord, but some people have pretty god ideas about what Jesus would drive (http://www.highrock.com/personal/WWJD/).

Why are we going through this again? I thought the whole deal was about freedom of religion, not necessarily freedom from religion. If a community wants a Nativity Scene, what right do the ACLU and militant atheists have to stop them? I'm not a Christian, but I do like tradition, and these idiots who feel personally insulted by other's expressions of faith, tradition, etc., are immature blockheads who need to grow up. I like Christmas whatever the reason for it is, I like getting together with family and friends, I like getting and giving gifts, I like the Christmas day feast, I like the music, I like the renewal of hope, I like it all and, as an agnostic, I resent the militant, fundamentalist atheists who want to take it away.

who in the community?

the majority?

I don't care what 51% of the people in the town say, you're not spending my tax dollars on your religion.

If you want to donate to the church so that they can put up a display of their own on their own property, go ahead.

If you want to spend your own money to put up a display in your own backyard, go ahead.

If you want to spend my tax money to worship your god on public property?

go fuck yourself.

I find it funny how pointless the whole thing was, since someone was going to officially set it up. Some people must have been too paranoid to think that you could, you know, just ask if you could do it.

who in the community?

the majority?

I don't care what 51% of the people in the town say, you're not spending my tax dollars on your religion.

If you want to donate to the church so that they can put up a display of their own on their own property, go ahead.

If you want to spend your own money to put up a display in your own backyard, go ahead.

If you want to spend my tax money to worship your god on public property?

go fuck yourself.It's a friggin nativity scene.

*looks out window, sees massive christmas tree and Inflatable Santa*

*Walks through school, gazing at mini christmas trees and Santas*

War on Christmas my ass.

It's a friggin nativity scene.

that's not the point.

If my taxes are going to be spent on little ceramic statues, or on electricity for a big ass christmas tree in town square, or any number of state-sponsored religious demonstrations, I think it's about time for me to stop paying them altogether.

I pay them because they are supposed to promote the common good. Instead, you are quite literally forcing me to spend money on your religion.

I don't care how big it is or how small it is, I don't want you to steal a single penny of mine for your religion.


(note: this applies to the whole "war on christmas" BS, but most especially to the overreacting christians who use the persecution complex of the day to advance their own superstition. I'm not talking about this one case)

*makes "smash my nativity set" video and forces fundies to watch.

Though I like the reactions of the towns people before this drive by happened

They were all pissed about the "War on Christmas" when the original was stole

Want to bet they never even cared till the tradition changed (through theft or design) Then all the sudden people were not blindly following their faith and it became a big deal

blindly following their faith? dude - christians BANNED christmas in england and america for a short time. the holiday had blatently so little to do with christianity (it's always been that way and people have always known it) that some christians found it offensive. garlands, mistletoe, yule logs, jack frost, midwinter feasting, caroling...hahaha look up a few 15th and 16th century english "christimas carols" and it will put some hair on your chest - this is not a *christian* holiday and it's conspicuous "religious" displays have nothing to do with religion. a nativity seen is no more "blindly following their faith" than that statue of persephone on top of the white house means the US government is romano-pagan. :rolleyes:

I don't have a "War on Christmass" thing going on but I am a bit cynical about the plauge that is decorate-your-house-in-as-many-gaudy-christmass-lights-as-possible slowly but surely spreading accross ther UK here.

It just smacks of a "More Festive than thou" kind of attitude where the meaning of christmass is becoming a competition to see who is most, well, Festive. "The Grinch" captures what I'm talking about perfectly.

christmas has ALWAYS been about rampant festivity. people used to be AFRAID of christmas revelers - especially rich people who were obliged to give them food and drink (drink they probably did not need any more of...) - the true and ancient spirit of christmas is a bonfire, drinking songs, a huge feast, and an orgy. there is nothing about charity or religion (at least not the austere, flesh-denying, desire hating christian take on it) in this holiday. this was in ancient times about staving off the darkness and butchering the animals who wouldn't survive the bitter, bitter cold. ancient christmas looks a great deal more like modern mardi-gras or spring break than some holy day of song and charity.


The photo, at the top of the article...

...Does Mary have her tits out?

that would make her Mata Meri, not Mother Mary. important distinction! or so I'm told. one queen of heaven is the same as another...I mean, these folks have alot of names. I think Mary generally keeps her shirt on, though - christians are afraid of not being able to control god, and sex is very much like god, so it gets controlled too. not all of them, mind you, but the roman sort lend themselves to ridicule rather easily. and no, she is just wearing a rather clingy brown tunic. probably rather sweaty, since she did just give birth...

Why are we going through this again? I thought the whole deal was about freedom of religion, not necessarily freedom from religion. If a community wants a Nativity Scene, what right do the ACLU and militant atheists have to stop them? I'm not a Christian, but I do like tradition, and these idiots who feel personally insulted by other's expressions of faith, tradition, etc., are immature blockheads who need to grow up. I like Christmas whatever the reason for it is, I like getting together with family and friends, I like getting and giving gifts, I like the Christmas day feast, I like the music, I like the renewal of hope, I like it all and, as an agnostic, I resent the militant, fundamentalist atheists who want to take it away.

thank you!

who in the community?

the majority?

I don't care what 51% of the people in the town say, you're not spending my tax dollars on your religion.

If you want to donate to the church so that they can put up a display of their own on their own property, go ahead.

If you want to spend your own money to put up a display in your own backyard, go ahead.

If you want to spend my tax money to worship your god on public property?

go fuck yourself.

...haha, we have an uncle in my family who talks like this. he insulted the entire family until another atheist/agnostic member told him to fuck off. he refused to speak to 90% of the family ever again and moved away. to a town called Christmas Valley...which we all find highly amusing. "the atheist in christmas valley" sounds like a B-movie or something. really though, be nice to religion. it's vastly more powerful than any other social force that exists even if it's a crock of bull - and if it's even partially true, it's more powerful than anything, period. either way it will run your cynical and beligerant little ass flat over. I'm not even christian and this makes me want to go put up a large nativity scene where you live. people like you were the ones hauling people off to be burned at the stake 500 years ago. your prime quality is fanaticism, rationality-worshipping secularism is just the latest fad you've latched on to.

that's not the point.

If my taxes are going to be spent on little ceramic statues, or on electricity for a big ass christmas tree in town square, or any number of state-sponsored religious demonstrations, I think it's about time for me to stop paying them altogether.

I pay them because they are supposed to promote the common good. Instead, you are quite literally forcing me to spend money on your religion.

I don't care how big it is or how small it is, I don't want you to steal a single penny of mine for your religion.


(note: this applies to the whole "war on christmas" BS, but most especially to the overreacting christians who use the persecution complex of the day to advance their own superstition. I'm not talking about this one case)

christmas trees have nothing to do with christianity.

christmas trees have nothing to do with christianity.

doesn't change the fact that I don't want to pay for yours.


This doesn't have jack shit to do with religion.

You can worship whatever you want however you want, as long as you don't expect me to pay for it.

doesn't change the fact that I don't want to pay for yours.


This doesn't have jack shit to do with religion.

You can worship whatever you want however you want, as long as you don't expect me to pay for it.

I don't actually believe taxes are justifiable...though I only whine about paying for bombs and wars not...christmas trees. the only reason I'm even arguing is because you said "fuck you" to somebody earlier. I'm argue more just for the hell of it, but I have the flu, and really do not feel very competitive right now.

...haha, we have an uncle in my family who talks like this. he insulted the entire family until another atheist/agnostic member told him to fuck off. he refused to speak to 90% of the family ever again and moved away. to a town called Christmas Valley...which we all find highly amusing. "the atheist in christmas valley" sounds like a B-movie or something. really though, be nice to religion. it's vastly more powerful than any other social force that exists even if it's a crock of bull - and if it's even partially true, it's more powerful than anything, period. either way it will run your cynical and beligerant little ass flat over. I'm not even christian and this makes me want to go put up a large nativity scene where you live. people like you were the ones hauling people off to be burned at the stake 500 years ago. your prime quality is fanaticism, rationality-worshipping secularism is just the latest fad you've latched on to.

Good for him, but as I said above: this has nothing to do with what religion you follow, I simply don't want to pay for it.

put up whatever lawn decorations you want, as long as it's your land and it's being paid for out of your wallet.

when you start using public money for your own private purposes is when I'm going to get mad.

I tell you that I don't want to pay for your damn religion, and you have a fucking immature knee-jerk "hehe, let's put a nativity on his lawn, just because it'll piss him off"

fucking seven year old :rolleyes:

who in the community?

the majority?

I don't care what 51% of the people in the town say, you're not spending my tax dollars on your religion.

If you want to donate to the church so that they can put up a display of their own on their own property, go ahead.

If you want to spend your own money to put up a display in your own backyard, go ahead.

If you want to spend my tax money to worship your god on public property?

go fuck yourself.

Hi Grinch, or is it Scrooge?

You must lead a very dull little life. You get all bitter about people celebrating and then invite me to a biological impossibility. What a dull, unhappy world we would live in if we had no celebrations for fear that they might, possibly have a religious context.

Merry Christmas, Merry Winter Solstice, Gut Yule, Happy Hanukkah, God and Goddess Bless you. I hope you somehow find happiness.

that's not the point.

If my taxes are going to be spent on little ceramic statues, or on electricity for a big ass christmas tree in town square, or any number of state-sponsored religious demonstrations, I think it's about time for me to stop paying them altogether.

I pay them because they are supposed to promote the common good. Instead, you are quite literally forcing me to spend money on your religion.

I don't care how big it is or how small it is, I don't want you to steal a single penny of mine for your religion.


(note: this applies to the whole "war on christmas" BS, but most especially to the overreacting christians who use the persecution complex of the day to advance their own superstition. I'm not talking about this one case)
"My" religion?

Good for him, but as I said above: this has nothing to do with what religion you follow, I simply don't want to pay for it.

put up whatever lawn decorations you want, as long as it's your land and it's being paid for out of your wallet.

when you start using public money for your own private purposes is when I'm going to get mad.

I tell you that I don't want to pay for your damn religion, and you have a fucking immature knee-jerk "hehe, let's put a nativity on his lawn, just because it'll piss him off"

fucking seven year old :rolleyes:

http://pics.livejournal.com/troworld/pic/0002x10d

I don't actually believe taxes are justifiable...though I only whine about paying for bombs and wars not...christmas trees. the only reason I'm even arguing is because you said "fuck you" to somebody earlier. I'm argue more just for the hell of it, but I have the flu, and really do not feel very competitive right now.

oh, believe me, I hate paying for killing people even more than I hate watching someone else worshiping with the money from my paycheck.

An interesting poster I saw once was "It'll be a great day in america when schools get all the money they need and the air force has to have a bake sale to pay for bombers"

I'd rather educate our children than kill someone else's, but it does seem to me that if someone wants to practice their religion, they should do it on their own money, on their own property.

didn't jesus himself even say that religion is supposed to be a private affair? you know, the whole "don't make a show out of your worship, do it in private, in secret, where it is just you and God"

Hi Grinch, or is it Scrooge?

You must lead a very dull little life. You get all bitter about people celebrating and then invite me to a biological impossibility. What a dull, unhappy world we would live in if we had no celebrations for fear that they might, possibly have a religious context.

Merry Christmas, Merry Winter Solstice, Gut Yule, Happy Hanukkah, God and Goddess Bless you. I hope you somehow find happiness.

I am happy, just not when people steal my paycheck and use it to decorate a tree.

You want to decorate for christmas, go right ahead. have the biggest goddamn christmas tree ever.

you just have to pay for it yourself.

what is so hard to understand about this that people want to mock me for it?

"My" religion?

it's the general plural 'you', not you in particluar

I am happy, just not when people steal my paycheck and use it to decorate a tree.

You want to decorate for christmas, go right ahead. have the biggest goddamn christmas tree ever.

you just have to pay for it yourself.

what is so hard to understand about this that people want to mock me for it?

So, no Christmas decorations in the White House. No tree in Times Square. No sense of community that says, "regardless of what we individually believe or don't believe, we will celebrate this time of year together." I repeat, how dull. People have a need for celebration. Certain times of the year naturally elicit celebration, the Winter Solstice, now called Christmas, is one of them - it celebrates the return of the light and the triumph of the sun (no pun intended). People from the beginning of time have come together to establish community by celebrating this publicly. You can sit it out if you want, maybe someone will even refund your money - in fact, all of you NSrs out there, let's take up a collection and give Nevered his tax money back, since it's so important to him.

So, no Christmas decorations in the White House. No tree in Times Square. No sense of community that says, "regardless of what we individually believe or don't believe, we will celebrate this time of year together." I repeat, how dull. People have a need for celebration. Certain times of the year naturally elicit celebration, the Winter Solstice, now called Christmas, is one of them - it celebrates the return of the light and the triumph of the sun (no pun intended). People from the beginning of time have come together to establish community by celebrating this publicly. You can sit it out if you want, maybe someone will even refund your money - in fact, all of you NSrs out there, let's take up a collection and give Nevered his tax money back, since it's so important to him.

nah, don't give it back to me.

buy some schoolbooks for our failing school system.

buy some body armor for our dying troops in iraq

buy new equipment for our struggling policemen and firemen


or maybe you could just put lights on a tree.
if that's what's more important to you.


priorities, man: priorities.

So, no Christmas decorations in the White House. No tree in Times Square. No sense of community that says, "regardless of what we individually believe or don't believe, we will celebrate this time of year together." I repeat, how dull. People have a need for celebration. Certain times of the year naturally elicit celebration, the Winter Solstice, now called Christmas, is one of them - it celebrates the return of the light and the triumph of the sun (no pun intended). People from the beginning of time have come together to establish community by celebrating this publicly. You can sit it out if you want, maybe someone will even refund your money - in fact, all of you NSrs out there, let's take up a collection and give Nevered his tax money back, since it's so important to him.


Yep, no Christmas decorations in the White House unless the Prez pays for them himself. No tree in Times Square unless a private group raises the funds to put it up. Don't waste my hard-earned money on your silly community-building.

The government is already in large enough debt. How much money is burned each year on silly celebrations?

Yep, no Christmas decorations in the White House unless the Prez pays for them himself. No tree in Times Square unless a private group raises the funds to put it up. Don't waste my hard-earned money on your silly community-building.

The government is already in large enough debt. How much money is burned each year on silly celebrations?

Actually, very little is spent on "silly celebrations", especially when compared to the amount spent on Congressional salaries, junkets, etc. The point I'm trying to make, and apparently I'm not doing a very good job of it, is that people need celebration. This is a social/psychological fact. It is also a fact that they need to do it as a community. This is not "silly community-building" this is an inherent human need. We are social animals, we live in a social context. The trend to isolation in the last 50 or so years is unhealthy. The need to get together and celebrate, for whatever reason, is a sign that we are not a terminally ill culture ... that there is still hope.

Am I the only person who had images of nuns doing a drive-by shooting?


Okay, I don't think even I thought that.

Actually, very little is spent on "silly celebrations", especially when compared to the amount spent on Congressional salaries, junkets, etc. The point I'm trying to make, and apparently I'm not doing a very good job of it, is that people need celebration. This is a social/psychological fact. It is also a fact that they need to do it as a community. This is not "silly community-building" this is an inherent human need. We are social animals, we live in a social context. The trend to isolation in the last 50 or so years is unhealthy. The need to get together and celebrate, for whatever reason, is a sign that we are not a terminally ill culture ... that there is still hope.

What makes you think that I support overpayed congressmen and pork any more than I support stupid holiday nonsense?

I don't necessarily disagree with the statement that many people do need to feel connected to one another (it's easier to be a brainless follower that way), I just don't think that it is the government's place to pay for it. If people want to celebrate, they can foot the bill themselves, and not do it off of my paycheck.

Actually, very little is spent on "silly celebrations", especially when compared to the amount spent on Congressional salaries, junkets, etc.

and you don't think I hate that waste of money as much as I hate any other?

let's see: you have to hire people to set up the tree, people to decorate the tree, people to trim the tree, people to guard the tree, you have to pay the power bill for the tree, you have to pay people to water the tree, you have to pay money to celebrate the tree (those leaflets don't distribute themselves), you have to pay money to take down the tree, you have to pay money to store the decorations somewhere, and if the damn thing catches fire, you have to pay to put it out, too.

or, you could buy a new dialysis machine for the local hospital.


The point I'm trying to make, and apparently I'm not doing a very good job of it, is that people need celebration. This is a social/psychological fact. It is also a fact that they need to do it as a community. This is not "silly community-building" this is an inherent human need. We are social animals, we live in a social context. The trend to isolation in the last 50 or so years is unhealthy. The need to get together and celebrate, for whatever reason, is a sign that we are not a terminally ill culture ... that there is still hope.

so go to a rock concert, or to a football game, or to a marathon walk, or join a bowling club, or go to a karaoke bar, or go to a church, or to your kid's PTA meeting.

there are plenty of things that build community that don't involve wasting my tax dollars.

Im an atheist and I see no problem with seeing nativity scenes and such. Just dont spend tax money on it.

A mysterious van pulls up. It comes to a stop and two men jump out. They quickly set up a nativity scene and drive off. This sort of heinous crime is happening in Florida and police seem powerless to stop it. The people responsible don't seem to care how many innocent bystanders may be exposed to their religion. What kind of depraved person would do such a thing?

In all honesty I think some folks seem to be taking this "war on Xmas" thing a little too seriously.

http://www.metro.co.uk/weird/article.html?in_article_id=29420&in_page_id=2

And just what, in the name of greek buggery is a 'menifestation'?

And just what, in the name of greek buggery is a 'menifestation'?

Plural of manifestation - an infestation of men

An interesting poster I saw once was "It'll be a great day in america when schools get all the money they need and the air force has to have a bake sale to pay for bombers"

And the next day, you start learning Russian.

And the next day, you start learning Russian.

It was meant to make a point, not meant to be taken literally.

And the next day, you start learning Russian.

Nah, I'd be more likely to choose Mandarin, once the schools had a decent language curriculum.

Generally it is donated by some church through the congregation’s money. So your tax dollars are not going to pay for it.

Don't you guys have something more important to complain about? Pick one war, gun control, economy

Leave the decorations alone.

Look the other way, take a different street, turn the channel. This is a Christian country

Says so right on our money. In God we trust!

Don't like there is the door.....

there are plenty of things that build community that don't involve wasting my tax dollars.

If the voters don't consider it a waste of tax money, it isn't. Personally, I think the White House Christmas tree is a great tradition and is well worth the money spent on it.

Can you imagine someone going to Israel and saying please take down the menorah because I am a taxpayer and I don't want to pay for that.

How about Iran and saying I don't like those Muslim decorations please remove them. I am a taxpayer and I don't want to pay for that.


So why do you think it should fly here?

So why do you think it should fly here?

Because it's part of the Constitution and has been established as such by the Supreme Court?

But at the same time, almost all of the government or city Christmas displays are fairly secular or inclusive to begin with; it usually respects all of the celebrations during the season in one way or another.

If the majority of voters don't consider it a waste of tax money, it isn't. Personally, I think the White House Christmas tree is a great tradition and is well worth the money spent on it.

fixed.


now tell me why 51% of the population is allowed to take my money and not allow me to benefit from it.

fixed.

now tell me why 51% of the population is allowed to take my money and not allow me to benefit from it.

Because that's the way representative democracy works?

I'd rather have 51% of the population saying what's right than 1% or even only one person.

Because it's part of the Constitution and has been established as such by the Supreme Court?

But at the same time, almost all of the government or city Christmas displays are fairly secular or inclusive to begin with; it usually respects all of the celebrations during the season in one way or another.

Agreed to an extent

Religious freedom was one of the main reasons this country was founded. Pilgrims escaping to the new world, not real popular at home.

Can you imagine someone going to Israel and saying please take down the menorah because I am a taxpayer and I don't want to pay for that.

How about Iran and saying I don't like those Muslim decorations please remove them. I am a taxpayer and I don't want to pay for that.


So why do you think it should fly here?

this is not Israel, not is it Iran.

both of those nations have very strong religious influences in their governments.

Welcome to the United States.

we aren't a theocracy.

the government does not sponsor any one religion, nor am I obligated to pay for it.



Let me ask you what you would say if I dipped into the government budget and bought myself a private yacht. I mean a really, really big one.
and every weekend, I had a party on my yacht, and only my friends were invited.


well all across the nation, christians are dipping into the government budget and buying themselves private parties that only christians are invited to.

My money is quite literally going to pay for your religious celebration.

Because that's the way representative democracy works?

I'd rather have 51% of the population saying what's right than 1% or even only one person.

I'd rather have everyone decide for themselves decide what is right, and apply it to only their own lives.

that's the way freedom works

Agreed to an extent

Religious freedom was one of the main reasons this country was founded. Pilgrims escaping to the new world, not real popular at home.

religious freedom.

like the freedom to not be a part of religion at all?


you have yet to explain to me why I should pay for your christmas tree

Seeing decorations encourages people to buy more decorations of their own and that is makes the state more money so that they can pay for these decorations.

I'd rather have everyone decide for themselves decide what is right, and apply it to only their own lives.

that's the way freedom works

I would too, but that isn't likely anytime soon.

I don't think Christmas is so much a religious holiday so much as a social holiday. My H-core athiest exboyfriend loooves Christmas.

The debate over church/state separation is fundamentally a debate about the meaning of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Briefly, one side in the debate believes that the Constitution gives government the power to regulate some aspects of religion, and that the First Amendment bars only the establishment of a national church. The other side in the debate believes that the Constitution gives government no power over religion, and that the First Amendment should be broadly read to ban all types of interference with religion.



Either way it can be argued that this is neither.

How about the Statue of Liberty?

How about Mount Rushmore?

No?

Why?

Because most of us asked for it.

I saw one of those on the sidewalk after I got my filling at the dentist, only it was mounted on a truck and it was about abortion. That picture was HIDEOUS! UGGH! *vomits*

was it baby jesus as a fetus?

How about the Statue of Liberty?

How about Mount Rushmore?

No?

Why?

Because most of us asked for it.

because they were made before I was born.



Look: christmas trees are nice. so are monuments.

but they're also really expensive.

now, expensive wouldn't be too bad if we had enough money to spend on it all.

but we don't.

I don't know if you've heard of this or not, but we're really far in debt, and the nation is running a deficit like it's nobody's business.

not to mention the fact that our schools are still not getting enough money.

"necessary" comes before "nice"

If our nation was making enough money to waste on christmas trees, i'd be overjoyed.

and then we'd have an argument on whether or not I should be paying for a religion that i'm not a part of.

but at this point, it's not even about whether or not i should be paying for it. it's about whether or not we should be spending money on it at all.

[edit] oh yea: the statue of liberty was a gift, by the way. from france. we didn't pay for it at all

You KNOW this was fun to write:

"In a further twist, a group of residents had planned to set up their own Nativity to replace the previous absent Nativity, but when they turned up on Monday with their replacement Nativity they found that the rogue Nativity had pre-empted their Nativity in the space the previous Nativity had once rested. "

Look the other way, take a different street, turn the channel. This is a Christian country

Says so right on our money. In God we trust!

Don't like there is the door.....

You first. You sound like you would be more happy in a theocracy like Iran. Why don't you go there? Welcome to America. We're a secular republic. Got a problem with it? There is the door. Either way, I'm fine with individually donated stuff for celebrations, I just don't go along with any money spent on it that comes from the tax-payers.