NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm beginning to think that people who go on hazardous mountain climbs or try to sail around the world in a twelve foot sail boat should leave a substantial deposit which can be refunded on their safe return.


http://www.theolympian.com/377/story/56599.html

How much do tax payers spend on these fools? It wasn't my idea for supposedly mature adults to hike up a big mountain in the snow. I have no problem with rescuing people from everyday mishaps, even people who were a bit foolish. But this is just asking for someone to have to haul your ass out of a situation you knew was hazardous and decided was fun anyway. At great cost, possibly costing your rescuers their lives.

I'm beginning to think that people who go on hazardous mountain climbs or try to sail around the world in a twelve foot sail boat should leave a substantial deposit which can be refunded on their safe return.


http://www.theolympian.com/377/story/56599.html

How much do tax payers spend on these fools? It wasn't my idea for supposedly mature adults to hike up a big mountain in the snow. I have no problem with rescuing people from everyday mishaps, even people who were a bit foolish. But this is just asking for someone to have to haul your ass out of a situation you knew was hazardous and decided was fun anyway. At great cost, possibly costing your rescuers their lives.

Sounds like those guys got unlucky, not that they were foolish. Besides, isn't this what health insurance covers? Rescue, as well as care?

when I lived in Tucson there was a law (I think it was referred to as the stupid driver law) where if you drove into flood waters and got stuck you had to pay back the money spent to save you..........

something like that?

In certain situations they should have to pay for it themselves, they don't know that they're going to be injured. But the odds of it happening are stacked up so high in favour of injury, that it might be a safe way to go. Insurance should be for when the unfortunate happens, not when you gamble with bum odds and lose.

EDIT: I meant public insurance, the private insurance companies can do whatever they want.

Sounds like those guys got unlucky, not that they were foolish. Besides, isn't this what health insurance covers? Rescue, as well as care?

Not the searching, I don't think... however there IS insurance you can get which WILL cover such things. And I suspect in many places it's mandatory.

when I lived in Tucson there was a law (I think it was referred to as the stupid driver law) where if you drove into flood waters and got stuck you had to pay back the money spent to save you..........

something like that?That would be nice. Though in truth, these particuliar climbers were pretty well prepared. But rescue services are frequently called to rescue mountain climbers, rock climbers, sailors and the like who go off half-cocked and ill-prepared.

Sorry, but search-and-rescue workers choose that job, just like adventurers and climbers and other adrenaline junkies choose their diversions. So, no to manslaughter, but yes to footing the bill.

Colorado has a law which makes the rescued responsible for costs incurred in their being pulled from the wilderness if they're off the trails, outside of park or ski area boundaries on purpose, irresponsible stuff like that. I wholly support that notion. Especially siiers outside of area boundaries. I have little sympathy beyond the usual sadness at any unnecessary or unfortunate death for people who can read the signs saying (basically) "YOU ARE TAKING YOUR LIFE INTO YOUR OWN HANDS IF YOU CROSS THIS BOUNDARY. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED" -- and merrily go on crossing the line anyway.

The basic premise of your argument is that since citizens perform high-risk activities they should fork out for cost of their rescue.

Mountain climbing, statistically speaking, is safer than driving a car in terms of deaths per trip/climb. Do you want an even bigger deposit for getting into your car?

We paid taxes to fund police, fire department ,emergency medical services, forest rangers and other public security. We deserve what we paid for.

On the other hand, mountain climbers should be fined if they were rescued in a prohibited area. There is a reason it is prohibited ,people.

i dont know about paying it back but it is now officially stupid to go backcountry hiking, mountain climbing or other risky out of the way stuff without a gps tracking beacon. there is no longer any excuse to be lost on a mountain with no way to find out where you are until they find your cold dead body in a snow cave.

Yes. We should charge people for being active and getting off their asses and doing something.

While we're at it, lets charge people for riding bikes in big cities. After all, you're much more likely to be hit there. People who ski, snowboard, swim, run, mountain climb, sail...just about every physical activity is dangerous. I think they pay enough by putting their life on the line.

Of course, this isn't to say that taking stupid risks should be encouraged...glade skiing, climbing on closed paths, etc. should be fined if they were back there on purpose without proper equipment (GPStrackers, etc.). Otherwise, no.

Not the searching, I don't think... however there IS insurance you can get which WILL cover such things. And I suspect in many places it's mandatory.
Yep, in the UK, the BMC (British Mountaineering Council) offer insurance that can cover everything from lost luggage to first class flights home from the Himalayas when you've mangled both legs. They really are excellent.
That would be nice. Though in truth, these particuliar climbers were pretty well prepared. But rescue services are frequently called to rescue mountain climbers, rock climbers, sailors and the like who go off half-cocked and ill-prepared.
Heh, I'd agree. Over here, its considered good manners to buy the Mountain Rescue a crate of beer if they've pulled you off the mountain, regardless of the situation. One story of idiocy that springs to mind, is the party of schoolkids that had to get airlifted of Aonach Mor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aonach_Mor), because their teacher had led them up there in school uniform with binliners as waterproofs. On the whole, its people who aren't mountaineers or climbers (I can't speak for sailors) who get into difficulty because of sheer idiocy. Changing conditions, and bad luck can happen to anybody, really.

Yes. We should charge people for being active and getting off their asses and doing something.


I agree. Think I could get a refund for sitting on my ass extra time in their places?

These guys should be charged. They opted not to take a GPS, available to rent for $10 or buy for $150. The guy they had to check in with before they climbed strongly urged them several times to take one along.

They were also climbing outside of climbing season.

These guys should be charged. They opted not to take a GPS, available to rent for $10 or buy for $150. The guy they had to check in with before they climbed strongly urged them several times to take one along.

They were also climbing outside of climbing season.

Where did you find that? Besides, they're most likely dead now.

well I think people who go ill-prepared will learn there lesson once there rescued after a few days wondering in the snow and such, which is good enough for me also I think various adventures activities teach valuable lessons about life and so no its best if there is no deposit needed to help encourage it as much as possible

Where did you find that? Besides, they're most likely dead now.

The guy that they checked in with was on local news.
I know the prices of the GPS's because I've rented them before to snowboard, I've also looked into buying one.

Climbing Season: (http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/2483/hoodguid.htm) to name the first site that came up on google. Or any climbing organization. I saw the info at REI.

The guy that they checked in with was on local news.
I know the prices of the GPS's because I've rented them before to snowboard, I've also looked into buying one.

Climbing Season: (http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/2483/hoodguid.htm) to name the first site that came up on google. Or any climbing organization. I saw the info at REI.

Ahh fair enough. I didn't know about the climbing season. Climbing in the Cascades is a whole different ball game compared to over here, to be sure. It does seem like they misjuged that. Having said that, as they were unable to call in a location, a GPS would have been less use. It may have stopped them getting lost in the first place, but they may not have been lost, just screwed by the weather. Ah well, this is all speculation, anyway.

Mountain climbing, statistically speaking, is safer than driving a car in terms of deaths per trip/climb. Do you want an even bigger deposit for getting into your car?
In the US one is legally required to have insurance before they can drive why shouldn't Mountain Climbing meet the same requirement? The analogy doesn't quite work though, because nobody needs to climb a mountain, but millions need to use their cars to get to and from work everyday.

We paid taxes to fund police, fire department ,emergency medical services, forest rangers and other public security. We deserve what we paid for.
I've some experience with cave rescue, and the majority of it is volunteer-driven. I'm sure there are parallels with mountain rescue.

One highly-experenced caver I know took a bad step and fell, breaking her leg. It could have happened exactly the same way had she stepped off a curb in her hometown during a light shower. Unfortunately, it happened in a difficult cave, one that is highly valuable from a conservation standpoint.

Over three hundred cavers spent several days on site getting her out of the cave. A small portion of their interest was getting their friend safely out, but a larger portion was about arranging to protect this irreplaceable resource. They got her out safely, and did so without damage to the cave.

When the ambulance took her to the hospital to set the fracture, you can bet that her insurance was billed for the trip. As for the rest of the effort, no government funds were used. You don't have a say in what volunteers choose to spend their time or money doing.

As for mountain rescue, if government-funded staff or resources were used, they should charge for that use. If it's volunteers, or if the mountain rescue is a donation-driven organization put there by the climbers and friends-of-climbers, I'd say it's entirely up to them to do whatever the hell they want when it comes to reimbursement.

I've some experience with cave rescue, and the majority of it is volunteer-driven. I'm sure there are parallels with mountain rescue.

One highly-experenced caver I know took a bad step and fell, breaking her leg. It could have happened exactly the same way had she stepped off a curb in her hometown during a light shower. Unfortunately, it happened in a difficult cave, one that is highly valuable from a conservation standpoint.

Over three hundred cavers spent several days on site getting her out of the cave. A small portion of their interest was getting their friend safely out, but a larger portion was about arranging to protect this irreplaceable resource. They got her out safely, and did so without damage to the cave.

When the ambulance took her to the hospital to set the fracture, you can bet that her insurance was billed for the trip. As for the rest of the effort, no government funds were used. You don't have a say in what volunteers choose to spend their time or money doing.

As for mountain rescue, if government-funded staff or resources were used, they should charge for that use. If it's volunteers, or if the mountain rescue is a donation-driven organization put there by the climbers and friends-of-climbers, I'd say it's entirely up to them to do whatever the hell they want when it comes to reimbursement.Great info, great points.
I'd still like them be required to take out some insurance that would defray rescue costs. Not everyone has decent health insurance. And I'm required to have insurance to drive.

Ahh fair enough. I didn't know about the climbing season. Climbing in the Cascades is a whole different ball game compared to over here, to be sure. It does seem like they misjuged that. Having said that, as they were unable to call in a location, a GPS would have been less use. It may have stopped them getting lost in the first place, but they may not have been lost, just screwed by the weather. Ah well, this is all speculation, anyway.

thats why you need to take a gps beacon. it would have radioed their location so that the rescuers wouldnt have to triangulate from a cellphone call. more accurate and longer lasting.