NationStates Jolt Archive

While looking for something else, I discovered this and found it interesting enough to do some more research on it…

Pentecostals out number Methodists in the United Kingdom for the first time ever.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/12/19/nchurch19.xml

I also found that Evangelicals are the fastest growing group among the Christian denominations in the world and the Pentecostals (Assembly of God church) are the fastest growing of the Evangelicals in America.
http://www.ncccusa.org/news/060330yearbook1.html

So what do you know? Have you noticed an influx of Pentecostals in your part of the world? Although the Assembly of God Pentecostals were formed in America, they claim to have 30 million world wide members and only 2.3 million American members, so where are these new members coming from? They can’t all be from the UK can they?

They claim: Assemblies of God World Missions represents a growing family of more than 4,000 people — 2,035 appointed missionaries, 615 missionary associates and 1,500 missionary children — scattered throughout 212 countries and territories.
http://worldmissions.ag.org/

So, have you seen them? And what do you think of it?

*Raises hand*

There are more of us than you know. You will be assimilated.

I think there's a pentecostal church within a couple of hundred metres of my house. I never paid attention to what denomination it is, though, so I don't know for sure.

It's called "Pingstkyrkan" here and is one of the more prominent non-Church of Sweden denominations. They have a reputation of being backwards fundies, not to mention loonies what with the "healing" and other nonsense.

It's called "Pingstkyrkan" here and is one of the more prominent non-Church of Sweden denominations. They have a reputation of being backwards fundies, not to mention loonies what with the "healing" and other nonsense.

So, in your eyes, the Church of Sweden is the shizzle?

*Raises hand*

There are more of us than you know. You will be assimilated.

http://www.familyrightsassociation.com/educate/borg/talons.gif

It's called "Pingstkyrkan" here and is one of the more prominent non-Church of Sweden denominations. They have a reputation of being backwards fundies, not to mention loonies what with the "healing" and other nonsense.

why is the "healing" nonsense to you?

Friend of mine from highschool turned Pentecostal. They're loony.

Friend of mine from highschool turned Pentecostal. They're loony.

And your basis for that is?

So, in your eyes, the Church of Sweden is the shizzle?

The Church of Sweden was the state church before the separation of church and state. Some 7.5 million of Sweden's 9 million inhabitants are members of it (a combination of membership being automatic until the separation and Christenings, which confer membership nowadays, being seen as a "cute" tradition despite having lost their religious significance in this otherwise fortunately very secular country; sort of like Church marriage). It is liberal (blesses gay couples who enter civil marriages, has female bishops and so on) and refreshingly devoid of authoritarian imbecility for a religious institution.

The "Pingstkyrkan", on the other hand is basically its complete opposite; it's cultish, discriminative, and, well, simply backwards. Its members tend to be seen upon with caution by the rest of society (it's often used as an example of intolerant groupings) as they tend to espouse "values" foreign to modern day Sweden.

why is the "healing" nonsense to you?

Because it is nonsense. "Look at me, I'll cure you of cancer with magic!"

The Church of Sweden was the state church before the separation of church and state. Some 7.5 million of Sweden's 9 million inhabitants are members of it (a combination of membership being automatic until the separation and Christenings, which confer membership nowadays, being seen as a "cute" tradition despite having lost their religious significance in this otherwise fortunately very secular country; sort of like Church marriage). It is liberal (blesses gay couples who enter civil marriages, has female bishops and so on) and refreshingly devoid of authoritarian imbecility for a religious institution.

The "Pingstkyrkan", on the other hand is basically its complete opposite; it's cultish, discriminative, and, well, simply backwards. Its members tend to be seen upon with caution by the rest of society (it's often used as an example of intolerant groupings) as they tend to espouse "values" foreign to modern day Sweden.

Pentecostal churches have had female ministers since their inception. Are you somehow implying that they don't?

It also is not organized around a central authority. There isn't "one" minister who speaks for all Pentecostal churches. Every congregation is essentially on its own, except where money is combined for overseas missions, and a few central tenets.

How much do you actually know about it?

And your basis for that is?

Because before he was a member of their church he was perfectly sane. Afterward he kept trying to get me to go to church. Clearly it made him insane.

Because before he was a member of their church he was perfectly sane. Afterward he kept trying to get me to go to church. Clearly it made him insane.

So, if someone kept asking you to go bowling, then obviously bowling is an activity that induces insanity?

So, if someone kept asking you to go bowling, then obviously bowling is an activity that induces insanity?

Clearly.


The shoes alone should tell you that.

Clearly.


The shoes alone should tell you that.

Well, it should relieve you to know that I don't have to wear funny shoes to church, lol.

Pentecostal churches have had female ministers since their inception. Are you somehow implying that they don't?

Where did I imply that? They do have female "pastors" but they also cling to arcane gender roles.

It also is not organized around a central authority. There isn't "one" minister who speaks for all Pentecostal churches. Every congregation is essentially on its own, except where money is combined for overseas missions, and a few central tenets.

How much do you actually know about it?

Too much, as I was unfortunate enough to befriend a person who was a member of it without knowing she was. It's always chilling when someone you know eventually turns around and spouts things that make your stomach churn. I imagine that must be what knowing a Scientologist must be like.

So, if someone kept asking you to go bowling, then obviously bowling is an activity that induces insanity?

Bowling doesn't tend to entail speaking to an invisible, imaginary friend in the sky...

Where did I imply that? They do have female "pastors" but they also cling to arcane gender roles.


You implied it by saying that the Church of Sweden has female bishops, and by comparison, Pentecostal Churches are backwards.

Sorry, haven't seen that in my church. Unless being the entire pastoral staff (all females at all levels) is "arcane".


Too much, as I was unfortunate enough to befriend a person who was a member of it without knowing she was. It's always chilling when someone you know eventually turns around and spouts things that make your stomach churn.

Like what?

Bowling doesn't tend to entail speaking to an invisible, imaginary friend in the sky...

have you ever been bowling?

oh, and yeah there are some Pentecostals in my area, there is one living across the street, she won't take her kids to the hospital when they are sick because she thinks going to a doctor means you don't trust God.

she isn't the typical type though right?

Bowling doesn't tend to entail speaking to an invisible, imaginary friend in the sky...

"Oh god please let me get a strike.."

Plainly you haven't bowled much.

have you ever been bowling?

oh, and yeah there are some Pentecostals in my area, there is one living across the street, she won't take her kids to the hospital when they are sick because she thinks going to a doctor means you don't trust God.

she isn't the typical type though right?

Not typical.

I love it when people are quick to stereotype everyone who goes to a particular church.

have you ever been bowling?

oh, and yeah there are some Pentecostals in my area, there is one living across the street, she won't take her kids to the hospital when they are sick because she thinks going to a doctor means you don't trust God.

she isn't the typical type though right?

There is a sect that refuses medical treatment, but I don't know if it's a main stream pentecostal thing or not. I suspect not. Aren't they the ones who don't let women wear pants?

I can't keep all the fractured versions of Christianity straight.

There is a sect that refuses medical treatment, but I don't know if it's a main stream pentecostal thing or not. I suspect not. Aren't they the ones who don't let women wear pants?

I can't keep all the fractured versions of Christianity straight.

Christian Scientists are the ones who refuse medical treatment. And they are not Pentecostals.

You implied it by saying that the Church of Sweden has female bishops, and by comparison, Pentecostal Churches are backwards.

You misread.

Sorry, haven't seen that in my church. Unless being the entire pastoral staff (all females at all levels) is "arcane".

No, I'm more referring to the "the man is the head" silliness.

Like what?

Oh, before an exam in biology including evolutionary aspects going "I'm gonna go take a test about something I don't believe in" which is just scary and stupid. Telling a Muslim class mate she would go to hell, which is just rude and stupid. Constantly attempting to "save" me, which was annoying and stupid. Bunch of stuff, really. They're a very "push my religion down your throat" type of group.

Christian Scientists are the ones who refuse medical treatment. And they are not Pentecostals.

Ah, they're a bit.. Odd. There was a couple up by Indianapolis a year or so ago that had a baby die because they didn't take him to the doctor. Big flub about whether that fell under freedom of religion or neglect.

I don't think charges were pressed.

They're a very "push my religion down your throat" type of group.

Must be the ones you've met.

I haven't found any of them to be like that here.

have you ever been bowling?

Yes, and I saw no one speaking in tongues and proclaiming bowling was the only sport... I just saw people hurling heavy balls at pins.

Not typical.

I love it when people are quick to stereotype everyone who goes to a particular church.

I get a lot of that, so I try not to do it.

There is a sect that refuses medical treatment, but I don't know if it's a main stream pentecostal thing or not. I suspect not. Aren't they the ones who don't let women wear pants?

I can't keep all the fractured versions of Christianity straight.
That sure sounds like the local Pentecostal church around here, although there are other Pentecostal churches around here that are different too.


Christian Scientists are the ones who refuse medical treatment. And they are not Pentecostals.
Maybe they do, but the lady across the street claims to be Pentecostal, goes to the Pentecostal church down the street where they do the whole healing service thing.

Yes, and I saw no one speaking in tongues and proclaiming bowling was the only sport... I just saw people hurling heavy balls at pins.

Plenty of churches say that Jesus is the only Saviour (I think Smunkee's church would agree).

That, and our church goes bowling on Sunday nights.

Must be the ones you've met.

No, it's one of their widely recognised characteristics, what with being "evangelical". "De måste vara pingstvänner" ("they must be pentecostals") is a common assumption about any Christian who proselytises. That, or Jehova's Witnesses.

No, it's one of their widely recognised characteristics, what with being "evangelical". "De måste vara pingstvänner" ("they must be pentecostals") is a common assumption about any Christian who proselytises. That, or Jehova's Witnesses.

Around here, I've met far more Baptists and Jehovah's Witnesses who proselytize and knock on doors than I have Pentecostals.

...Telling a Muslim class mate she would go to hell, which is just rude and stupid. Constantly attempting to "save" me...

Exactly what one of my old classmates who turned pentecostal did, except the other friend was Bahai and they had know eachother for like 10 years :(

but no doubt these people must are exceptions......

Plenty of churches say that Jesus is the only Saviour (I think Smunkee's church would agree).

That was what I was mocking.

That, and our church goes bowling on Sunday nights.

Nevertheless, bowling itself isn't about speaking to the grand wizard in the sky. Religious activities are, so to use someone who suggests a spot of bowling to a mate as an analogy of someone wishing to entice someone into a religious sect is a grossly flawed one.

Exactly what one of my old classmates who turned pentecostal did, except the other friend was Bahai and they had know eachother for like 10 years :(

but no doubt these people must are exceptions......

Do you see me badgering you about being saved? :rolleyes:

Exactly what one of my old classmates who turned pentecostal did, except the other friend was Bahai and they had know eachother for like 10 years :(

but no doubt these people must are exceptions......

Unfortunately, seemingly not. (Åh, dessutom Åland! Hejsan, hej!)

That was what I was mocking.

Ah, but Smunkee's church isn't Pentecostal. There in Sweden, your colloquialisms seem to lump all evangelical churches into Pentecostalism.

Pretty far from the truth, as are most generalizations.

Pentecostalists are some of the more maniacal of the christian wackos here in the US.

Ah, but Smunkee's church isn't Pentecostal. There in Sweden, your colloquialisms seem to lump all evangelical churches into Pentecostalism.

Pretty far from the truth, as are most generalizations.

ah, but Fass wouldn't like my church for the same reasons

Pentecostalists are some of the more maniacal of the christian wackos here in the US.

Really? :rolleyes:

Ah, but Smunkee's church isn't Pentecostal. There in Sweden, your colloquialisms seem to lump all evangelical churches into Pentecostalism.

Pretty far from the truth, as are most generalizations.

What was being alluded to was religious proselytism by Christians in general, and not just that of pentecostals. You going "but most Churches do that!" is exactly what I meant - most of them do do that; proclaim their sect to be the only one. Do you have some sort of reading comprehension deficit? No, seriously, do you? Because in connection with your earlier misreading of my post as being centred on something which I hadn't even mentioned in it makes me wonder.

What was being alluded to was religious proselytism by Christians in general, and not just that of pentecostals. You going "but most Churches do that!" is exactly what I meant. Do you have some sort of reading comprehension deficit? No, seriously, do you? Because in connection with your earlier misreading of my post as being centred on something which I hadn't even mentioned in it makes me wonder.

No, you said that if you see someone proselytizing, you say, "they must be Pentecostals". Which is not true. Plenty of churches (but not most) proselytize.

Most churches do not proselytize. I believe you're the one with the reading comprehension deficit.

No, you said that if you see someone proselytizing, you say, "they must be Pentecostals".

Again, do you actually read posts before you reply to them? Because what I wrote was that a common saying about proselytising Christians is "de måste vara pingstvänner" was due to the fact that pentecostals are one, if not the most, known Christian sects to proselytise in such a pushy manner. You had just claimed that they weren't, I was giving an example of how you were wrong, seeing as pentecostals are so pushy about their religion, they've become the centre of a saying about it.

*waits for you to not read this and tell me I just claimed something I didn't, yet again*

oh, and yeah there are some Pentecostals in my area, there is one living across the street, she won't take her kids to the hospital when they are sick because she thinks going to a doctor means you don't trust God.

That is bizarre. I don't remember reading the Bible passage that said we no longer need doctors, or that God will cure every illness.

Again, do you actually read posts before you reply to them? Because what I wrote was that a common saying about proselytising Christians is "de måste vara pingstvänner" was due to the fact that pentecostals are one, if not the most, known Christian sects to proselytise in such a pushy manner. You had just claimed that they weren't, I was giving an example of how you were wrong, seeing as pentecostals are so pushy about their religion, they've become the centre of a saying about it.

*waits for you to not read this and tell me I just claimed something I didn't, yet again*

I'm saying "you" as in "Swedes in general".

It's an erroneous statement to imply that just because someone is proselytizing, they must be Pentecostals.

Again, do you bother reading what I say? Probably not.

They certainly aren't the most proselytizing in the US.

Maybe you need to get out of Sweden once in a while.

I'm saying "you" as in "Swedes in general".

It's an erroneous statement to imply that just because someone is proselytizing, they must be Pentecostals.

And what part of "I was giving an example of how you were wrong, seeing as pentecostals are so pushy about their religion, they've become the centre of a saying about it" was it you skipped this time? Yes, we do have a saying like that. It comes from the actual pushiness of the pentecostals. You going on and on "not all who are pushy are pentecostals" doesn't in any way negate that the pentecostals are so pushy, they've become the stereotype for it. You may not like it, but that's the way it is.

Again, do you bother reading what I say? Probably not.

I read your posts. So far they've been continuous irrelevancies. I post something, you say "not where I live," I write "but, like I just wrote, where I live," and then you go again "but where I live," and then I go "I was talking about where I lived, not you, and I was making a point you in no way negate with your mentioning of irrelevancies" and that's where we are.

They certainly aren't the most proselytizing in the US.

That's because the US has plenty of other such pushy people; harder competition for the pentecostals, who are still pushy.

Maybe you need to get out of Sweden once in a while.

And, maybe, just maybe, you need to cease to think that I care about what it's like in the US.

And what part of "I was giving an example of how you were wrong, seeing as pentecostals are so pushy about their religion, they've become the centre of a saying about it" was it you skipped this time? Yes, we do have a saying like that. It comes from the actual pushiness of the pentecostals. You going on and on "not all who are pushy are pentecostals" doesn't in any way negate that the pentecostals are so pushy, they've become the stereotype for it. You may not like it, but that's the way it is.

Pentecostals in Sweden then.


I read your posts. So far they've been continuous irrelevancies. I post something, you say "not where I live," I write "but, like I just wrote, where I live," and then you go again "but where I live," and then I go "I was talking about where I lived, not you, and I was making a point you in no way negate with your mentioning of irrelevancies" and that's where we are.
In your initial posts, you were implying that Pentecostals were the same everywhere.



That's because the US has plenty of other such pushy people; harder competition for the pentecostals, who are still pushy.
Obviously not here. See? You're implying knowledge of Pentecostals here.



And, maybe, just maybe, you need to cease to think that I care about what it's like in the US.
Well, if you're going to spread falsehoods about what it's like in the US...

Pentecostals in Sweden then.

In your initial posts, you were implying that Pentecostals were the same everywhere.

You seem to have missed what the thread is about: " Are there any Pentecostals in your home town?" Notice the bold part? Doesn't your bitching come across as quite misplaced, not to mention superfluous?

Obviously not here. See? You're implying knowledge of Pentecostals here.

No, I'm implying knowledge of US religiosity.

Well, if you're going to spread falsehoods about what it's like in the US...

Oh, how fortunate it would be for the US if they were falsehoods...

Do you see me badgering you about being saved? :rolleyes:

No, but then again, we just met, it usually takes a few times before I'm asked to come to a concert or meeting. ;)

Seriously tho, I haven't done any surveys on pentecostals around here so I can't give any kind of statistical proof. But I can say than that those of my acquaintances who've joined have tried to convince me to also attend. And while some gave up after a few tries, one girl asked me 20+ times.


(Åh, dessutom Åland! Hejsan, hej!)
Go'kväll! :)

No, but then again, we just met, it usually takes a few times before I'm asked to come to a concert or meeting. ;)

Seriously tho, I haven't done any surveys on pentecostals around here so I can't give any kind of statistical proof. But I can say than that those of my acquaintances who've joined have tried to convince me to also attend. And while some gave up after a few tries, one girl asked me 20+ times.

Go'kväll! :)

Nope. At least our church doesn't do that.

If you were to overtly express an interest in coming to the church, you would get an invitation. Otherwise, we're smart enough to know that ramming it down your throat would be a bad idea.

No, I'm implying knowledge of US religiosity.

You seem fairly unknowledgeable about US religion to me.

Go'kväll! :)

Tjaba! Du är den andra ålänningen jag sett här. Av nån anledning stöter jag på ålänningar på de konstigaste ställena...

You seem fairly unknowledgeable about US religion to me.

On, noes. Woe is me.

On, noes. Woe is me.

Well, it precludes you from commenting on it. ;)

Well, it precludes you from commenting on it. ;)

Like so many other things, only in your head.

Well I have to admit I never anticipated THIS thread topic of turning into a flame-war of anti-bowling zealots. ;)

While we cool off we might as well watch Star Wars Episode 4!

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k23/PootWaddle/starwars.gif

*eats popcorn while wearing bowling shoes*

Because it is nonsense. "Look at me, I'll cure you of cancer with magic!"

So, do I finally get to place the charming young woman I met on a train ride home who offered me an brand-new set of hands if only I prayed fervishly enough for it in a specific faith group? I've heard of the 'Pfingstler' before, but I never knew *that* was them..

So, umm, at the OP- how do I spot a Pentecostal, then? You've done quite a job denying various ways of identifying them, and given my degree of ignorance on faith group matters, I can't tell you whether there are any around without clear instructions on how to pick them out.
And no, asking's not an option; I'm shy.

And no, asking's not an option; I'm shy.

I guess you may never know then.

I guess you may never know then.

Not that that'd be all that much of a loss, but I could also just wait for someone to explain the main features of a Pentecostal / their belief system. You nver know, some do come with a manual..

Not that that'd be all that much of a loss, but I could also just wait for someone to explain the main features of a Pentecostal / their belief system. You nver know, some do come with a manual..

Well, they don't have a frill of feathers around their neck, and it isn't tattooed on their forehead... and they don't wear religious clothing.

Might have a crucifix as jewelry, but then again other religious people do as well.

Might proselytize (in Sweden), but here not so much. If that's happening and you're in the US, it's probably a Mormon or Jehovah's Witness or Hare Krishna.

you seem fairly unknowledgable about real debate to me. whats with all those irrelevant comments?

Nothing irrelevant so far. Am I supposed to believe that all Pentecostals are harrying everyone in sight all over the world?

Nothing irrelevant so far. Am I supposed to believe that all Pentecostals are harrying everyone in sight all over the world?

oops. wrong thread.