NationStates Jolt Archive

Recently, I've heard some idiot rambling on about how Einstein was actually one of AMERICA's greatest scientists. Now, before you get me wrong, I'm not anti- American and I'm not American either. I have no particular preset view on America.

But, not every fucking invention and scientist is American... I mean, hell, the USSR reached space first (Remember Yuri Gagarin, people...if that's how you spell his name), so it's not like they've always been the driving force of all civilisation or something(Of course, some America-centrists will come along and probably just refute me by saying the opposite of what I just said somehow).

But, anyway, I spent like a damn hour trying to convince this fool that just because he immigrated to the U.S. does not mean he has lost his German-ness(Or Prussian-ness, to be more precise), but somehow he beleives that just because he had to leave due to matters of life and death, it meant he renounced his former nationality completely.

Now, what do you think?

what einstien? don't you know that all of history is a figment of left wing socialist immagination and the entire universe came into existence a week ago saturday?

(sorry, i'm in a bit of a sarcastic mood seeing some of the whoppers pseudo-religeous christernuts keep comming up with!)

=^^=
.../\...

He's German. Then he came to Britian. Then he was sent to America.

He's as American as Appel Strudel.

He did important things in America, therefore his existence is now the property of America. Obviously.





:rolleyes:

New American, Old Swiss, part German, all scientist.

If you're American, the phone, the computer and Einstein is AMERICAN...

(For me, the computer is German (Reis), the computer is British (Babbage), Einstein a German Jew and Hitler Austrian) :p

If you're American, the phone, the computer and Einstein is AMERICAN...

(For me, the computer is German (Reis), the computer is British (Babbage), Einstein a German Jew and Hitler Austrian) :p

Do you mean the phone is German?

Einstein is dead. Therefore he is no nationality.

Recently, I've heard some idiot rambling on about how Einstein was actually one of AMERICA's greatest scientists. Now, before you get me wrong, I'm not anti- American and I'm not American either. I have no particular preset view on America.

But, not every fucking invention and scientist is American... I mean, hell, the USSR reached space first (Remember Yuri Gagarin, people...if that's how you spell his name), so it's not like they've always been the driving force of all civilisation or something(Of course, some America-centrists will come along and probably just refute me by saying the opposite of what I just said somehow).

But, anyway, I spent like a damn hour trying to convince this fool that just because he immigrated to the U.S. does not mean he has lost his German-ness(Or Prussian-ness, to be more precise), but somehow he beleives that just because he had to leave due to matters of life and death, it meant he renounced his former nationality completely.

Now, what do you think?

Take a deep breath, it'll be okay. We know, big brother America is a meanie head who thinks he does everything better than us. We'll show 'im.

Can anyone say German-American? Good. I knew you could.:rolleyes:

Does it matter? Really? Does it change what he did or even why he did it?

Recently, I've heard some idiot rambling on about how Einstein was actually one of AMERICA's greatest scientists. Now, before you get me wrong, I'm not anti- American and I'm not American either. I have no particular preset view on America.

But, not every fucking invention and scientist is American... I mean, hell, the USSR reached space first (Remember Yuri Gagarin, people...if that's how you spell his name), so it's not like they've always been the driving force of all civilisation or something(Of course, some America-centrists will come along and probably just refute me by saying the opposite of what I just said somehow).

But, anyway, I spent like a damn hour trying to convince this fool that just because he immigrated to the U.S. does not mean he has lost his German-ness(Or Prussian-ness, to be more precise), but somehow he beleives that just because he had to leave due to matters of life and death, it meant he renounced his former nationality completely.

Now, what do you think?


I think you worry too much about what is obviously just a cultural attitude.

I mean it's like declareing you're pissed off because the Scotish like a wee bit of haggis and whiskey come Burns night.

I'm not american. This had to be stated before I'm flamed.
Einstein was born jewish german. But in later years he requested and GOT american citizenship. Which makes him american as well.
We can argue as much as we want, but truth is Einstein is big enough for all three sides to claim him (germans, jews and americans) Einstein never hated germany, only nazi goverment. If nazis never took over Einstein never would have left. But they did. And he has and now America has claim to him too.

Why the hell does it matter so much? He was a great scientist, and that should be enough for us to honor and respect him.

Why the hell does it matter so much? He was a great scientist, and that should be enough for us to honor and respect him.


Veyr well said. He advanced human knowledge. Good enough for me.

I think you worry too much about what is obviously just a cultural attitude.

I mean it's like declareing you're pissed off because the Scotish like a wee bit of haggis and whiskey come Burns night.

Why does everyone think I'm pissed off? I'm just annoyed.

Anyways, no its not like that. It's like being angry at someone who says sushi is an American dish because it was popularized in California on international level. That's what its like.

Why does everyone think I'm pissed off? I'm just annoyed.

Anyways, no its not like that. It's like being angry at someone who says sushi is an American dish because it was popularized in California on international level. That's what its like.

The fact that it is another America reference is just a coincedence, by the way. I couldn't think of a better analogy.

Recently, I've heard some idiot rambling on about how Einstein was actually one of AMERICA's greatest scientists.

Here's Einstein's declaration to become a US citizen.

http://z.about.com/d/history1900s/1/0/W/W/Einsteindeclare1.jpg

He officially became one in 1940.

So, he was a great AMERICAN scientist.

Now, what do you think?

That you misapplied the term, "idiot."

I've never thought of him as anything other than german. I don't care but I can understand that you got annoyed.

Why the hell does it matter so much? He was a great scientist, and that should be enough for us to honor and respect him.

True dat. You win the thread.

Why does everyone think I'm pissed off? I'm just annoyed.

Anyways, no its not like that. It's like being angry at someone who says sushi is an American dish because it was popularized in California on international level. That's what its like.


To tell the truth is was this line that pronpted my response.


But, not every fucking invention and scientist is American...


It appeared to me that you where angry at typical American behviour. I was just saying don't sweat it, it's what they are like.

Disclaimer:

Yes I know not all Americans are like, this, but as a nation it does appear that national pride and bragging is a cultural norm. Anyhoo I'm a Brit and well propeard that this POV may stem from my cutural 'repressed nature'

Muuuhahhhahhah:D

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k23/PootWaddle/German_Einstein.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k23/PootWaddle/American_Einstein.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k23/PootWaddle/German_Einstein.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k23/PootWaddle/American_Einstein.jpg

Screw the other guy, you win the thread!

Screw the other guy, you win the thread!

Damn you work filter. What are the pictures?

He's as American as Appel Strudel.

Quite true.

He's no more German than he is American, nor is he more American than German. In fact, he's both. He was born a German and died an American, just like an awful lot of other people, just less famous than him. Just like some of my ancestors.

German...American...I think he also spent his final years in Canada didn't he? I might be thinking of someone else.

I probably am thinking of someone else...

I know he rejected Israili citizenship.

He held both Swiss and US citizenship from 1940 till his death in '55. He gave up his German citizenship before the turn of the century, well before any Nazi-enforced "life-or-death" situation, as some other poster here suggested.

Y'know, it helps if you actually have a bleedin' clue about a subject before starting a thread about it.

I doubt Einstein would have considered concepts such as nationality or ethnicity important. Citizenship is mere technicality to make sure you don't get deported at the end of the war and thus unable to continue with his research he was conducting at Princeton.

Simply put - Einstein is one of the greatest scientists that has ever lived.

You could put it that of all the scientists to gain American citizenship, Einstein was the greatest. Or that Einstein is the greatest scientist to have ever worked in the USA.

German...American...I think he also spent his final years in Canada didn't he? I might be thinking of someone else.

No, he died in New Jersey.

Damn you work filter. What are the pictures?

The first, captioned "German Einstein," is a picture of he and his wife for a posed professional portrait.

The second, captioned "American Einstein," is that picture of him sticking his tongue out.

I'm not sure about "the greatest." Newton held the role of premeire scientedt for a lot longer than Einstein.

The first, captioned "German Einstein," is a picture of he and his wife for a posed professional portrait.

The second, captioned "American Einstein," is that picture of him sticking his tongue out.

Clearly the American version is superior. Though if I recall correctly he adopted the habit of doing odd things on camera so people would leave him alone.

Clearly the American version is superior.

Agreed. That is my avatar on some forums.

He held both Swiss and US citizenship from 1940 till his death in '55. He gave up his German citizenship before the turn of the century, well before any Nazi-enforced "life-or-death" situation, as some other poster here suggested.

Y'know, it helps if you actually have a bleedin' clue about a subject before starting a thread about it.
Of course.

So, how do you explain this (http://looris.net/~looris/immagini/Einsteindeclare1_mark.jpeg)?

I'm not sure about "the greatest." Newton held the role of premeire scientedt for a lot longer than Einstein.
you are not forgetting about Leonardo and Galileo, right?

Agreed. That is my avatar on some forums.
you understand it's not very original, do you?

Of course.

So, how do you explain this (http://looris.net/~looris/immagini/Einsteindeclare1_mark.jpeg)?

Depends what Einstein, or the law, considers "nationality."

It might refer to citizenship, it might refer to nation of birth.

I suspect it was more nation of birth.

Depends what Einstein, or the law, considers "nationality."

It might refer to citizenship, it might refer to nation of birth.

I suspect it was more nation of birth.

Precisely. He gave up his German citizenship in...I wanna say 1896. I could be off by a year or so, though.

Precisely. He gave up his German citizenship in...I wanna say 1896. I could be off by a year or so, though.More importantly, further down the form explicitly mentions that you renounce all allegiance, fealty, and suchwise to all other nations.

More importantly, further down the form explicitly mentions that you renounce all allegiance, fealty, and suchwise to all other nations.

Well, yeah, but he still held Swiss citizenship.

He was born in Germany, lived in the country for 15 years from his birth in 1879 until 1894.

After a short stint in Italy he moved to Switzerland in 1895. In 1896 he gave up his German (actually, the one of Württemberg, his home state in Southern Germany) citizenship so as to not have to serve in the military.

He got Swiss citizenship and lived in Switzerland for 19 years until 1914. While there (in 1905) he published the majority of his groundbreaking work, including special relativity.

He went back to Germany in 1914 and lived there for 18 years. During this time (1916) he published his magnum opus on general relativity. He received the Nobel Price in 1921.

He lived in Germany until a trip to the US in 1932 from which he never returned because of Hitler taking power in 1933. He asked the German authorities in 1933 to be let out of his citizenship which they refused only to "dishonorably revoke" his citizenship in 1934. Since things worked very differently back then, I'm not clear on the difference between his voluntary giving up of his Württemberg citizenship and this later one (which actually has a different name in German). It is apparent that it is different but I'm not sure about what exactly each entailed.

He got US citizenship in addition to the Swiss one and lived in the US for 22 years until his death in 1955.

I say "Germerican"

i thought he was a german that lived in America

More importantly, further down the form explicitly mentions that you renounce all allegiance, fealty, and suchwise to all other nations.

So you cant have dual nationality if you're american?

He was born in Germany, lived in the country for 15 years from his birth in 1879 until 1994.

After a short stint in Italy he moved to Switzerland in 1895. In 1896 he gave up his German (actually, the one of Württemberg, his home state in Southern Germany) citizenship so as to not have to serve in the military.

He got Swiss citizenship and lived in Switzerland for 19 years until 1914. While there (in 1905) he published the majority of his groundbreaking work, including special relativity.

He went back to Germany in 1914 and lived there for 18 years. During this time (1916) he published his magnum opus on general relativity. He received the Nobel Price in 1921.

He lived in Germany until a trip to the US from which he never returned because of Hitler taking power in 1933. He asked the German authorities in 1933 to be let out of his citizenship which they refused only to "dishonorably revoke" his citizenship in 1934. Since things worked very differently back then, I'm not clear on the difference between his voluntary giving up of his Württemberg citizenship and this later one (which actually has a different name in German). It is apparent that it is different but I'm not sure about what exactly each entailed.

He got US citizenship in addition to the Swiss one and lived in the US for 22 years until his death in 1955.

Thank you for confirming what I've already pretty much said, although in more detail. ;)

I doubt Einstein would have considered concepts such as nationality or ethnicity important. Citizenship is mere technicality to make sure you don't get deported at the end of the war and thus unable to continue with his research he was conducting at Princeton.

Simply put - Einstein is one of the greatest scientists that has ever lived.

You could put it that of all the scientists to gain American citizenship, Einstein was the greatest. Or that Einstein is the greatest scientist to have ever worked in the USA.

I think this is the best way to put it. Considering he did by far the most as well as by far the most signifcant before he ever set foot into the US, I wouldn't consider him an "American scientist".

He was what today would be called a "world citizen" (well, actually, I don't know if that word even exists in English, but you get the idea).

Recently, I've heard some idiot rambling on about how Einstein was actually one of AMERICA's greatest scientists. Now, before you get me wrong, I'm not anti- American and I'm not American either. I have no particular preset view on America.

But, not every fucking invention and scientist is American... I mean, hell, the USSR reached space first (Remember Yuri Gagarin, people...if that's how you spell his name), so it's not like they've always been the driving force of all civilisation or something(Of course, some America-centrists will come along and probably just refute me by saying the opposite of what I just said somehow).

But, anyway, I spent like a damn hour trying to convince this fool that just because he immigrated to the U.S. does not mean he has lost his German-ness(Or Prussian-ness, to be more precise), but somehow he beleives that just because he had to leave due to matters of life and death, it meant he renounced his former nationality completely.

Now, what do you think?

Einstein was German, yes, but he fled the country before he could accomplish his most beneficial works because of the increasing, 'We hate Jews' sentiment pervading Germany at the time. Yes he did do some great things in Germany, but most of his greatest works were done under American supervision and on American budgets. So, to a certain degree he was an American scientist, German citizen.

So, I can't help adding, iit is another example of why liberal market policies work, and why America is such a great country. Yet my views are sadly biased. In retrospect, so is yours, since I guess you live and consider yourself part fo some country, most likely European, and claiming a neutral position (then blasting and flaming away at American nationlists) doesn't make it any different.

Einstein was German, yes, but he fled the country before he could accomplish his most beneficial works because of the increasing, 'We hate Jews' sentiment pervading Germany at the time. Yes he did do some great things in Germany, but most of his greatest works were done under American supervision and on American budgets. So, to a certain degree he was an American scientist, German citizen.

Wrong. He wasn't a German citizen. Read the thread. We've already dealt with the question of his citizenship.

Einstein was German, yes, but he fled the country before he could accomplish his most beneficial works because of the increasing, 'We hate Jews' sentiment pervading Germany at the time. Yes he did do some great things in Germany, but most of his greatest works were done under American supervision and on American budgets. So, to a certain degree he was an American scientist, German citizen.
Really? Like what?

I don't usually quote myself, but this offers itself:
He got Swiss citizenship and lived in Switzerland for 19 years until 1914. While there (in 1905) he published the majority of his groundbreaking work, including special relativity.

He went back to Germany in 1914 and lived there for 18 years. During this time (1916) he published his magnum opus on general relativity. He received the Nobel Price in 1921.

He lived in Germany until a trip to the US in 1932 from which he never returned because of Hitler taking power in 1933.

As I already pointed out, my dear, that poster failed at reading. ;)

So you cant have dual nationality if you're american?You can, but the oath is as follows:

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God. In acknowledgement whereof I have hereunto affixed my signature.

I doubt Einstein would have considered concepts such as nationality or ethnicity important. Citizenship is mere technicality to make sure you don't get deported at the end of the war and thus unable to continue with his research he was conducting at Princeton.

Simply put - Einstein is one of the greatest scientists that has ever lived.

You could put it that of all the scientists to gain American citizenship, Einstein was the greatest. Or that Einstein is the greatest scientist to have ever worked in the USA.I think this quote sums up my thoughts on the matter well.
Through the release of atomic energy, our generation has brought into the world the most revolutionary force since prehistoric man's discovery of fire. This basic force of the universe cannot be fitted into the outmoded concept of narrow nationalisms.
For there is no secret and there is no defense; there is no possibility of control except through the aroused understanding and insistence of the peoples of the world. We scientists recognise our inescapable responsibility to carry to our fellow citizens an understanding of atomic energy and its implication for society. In this lies our only security and our only hope - we believe that an informed citizenry will act for life and not for death

Einstein posted here? But...he's dead! :eek:

Einstein posted here? But...he's dead! :eek:

You wouldn't believe the connection speeds they have in science heaven.

Einstein posted here? But...he's dead! :eek:He faked his death. Didn't you know? Just like Elvis. They both live in Timbuktu now.

He faked his death. Didn't you know? Just like Elvis. They both live in Timbuktu now.

How's he getting on with Jim Morrisson?

How's he getting on with Jim Morrisson?Reply Hazy. Try again latter. He does appear to have lost most of his hair though - http://www.kslegislature.org/legsrv-house/searchHouse.do?rep=2613

Reply Hazy. Try again latter. He does appear to have lost most of his hair though - http://www.kslegislature.org/legsrv-house/searchHouse.do?rep=2613

Mmmm...Magic 8-Ball. :cool:

How's he getting on with Jim Morrisson?

I believe he would be smart enough to be getting on with Marilyn Monroe.

I believe he would be smart enough to be getting on with Marilyn Monroe.

Meh, overrated.

I believe he would be smart enough to be getting on with Marilyn Monroe.Not unless he wanted to catch some ugly STI. Monroe slept with JFK. God only knows how many women he slept with...

Recently, I've heard some idiot rambling on about how Einstein was actually one of AMERICA's greatest scientists. Now, before you get me wrong, I'm not anti- American and I'm not American either. I have no particular preset view on America.

But, not every fucking invention and scientist is American... I mean, hell, the USSR reached space first (Remember Yuri Gagarin, people...if that's how you spell his name), so it's not like they've always been the driving force of all civilisation or something(Of course, some America-centrists will come along and probably just refute me by saying the opposite of what I just said somehow).

But, anyway, I spent like a damn hour trying to convince this fool that just because he immigrated to the U.S. does not mean he has lost his German-ness(Or Prussian-ness, to be more precise), but somehow he beleives that just because he had to leave due to matters of life and death, it meant he renounced his former nationality completely.

Now, what do you think?

No, he was a German-American. If he was a naturalized citizen, which I don't know if he was, then he was an American from Germany.

According to the Nobel Prize website, Einstein won his Nobel Prize as a German and a Swiss. The institution he represented was the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute in Berlin.

Link: http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/1921/index.html

No, he was a German-American. If he was a naturalized citizen, which I don't know if he was, then he was an American from Germany.

If you'd read what has already been posted in this thread, you'd know.

According to the Nobel Prize website, Einstein won his Nobel Prize as a German and a Swiss. The institution he represented was the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute in Berlin.

Link: http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/1921/index.html

Before he became a US citizen, yes.

If you'd read what has already been posted in this thread, you'd know.

And to think, I only had to look one page back. Yes, he was an American, as he assumed US citizenship.

But, not every fucking invention and scientist is American... I mean, hell, the USSR reached space first (Remember Yuri Gagarin, people...if that's how you spell his name), so it's not like they've always been the driving force of all civilisation or something(Of course, some America-centrists will come along and probably just refute me by saying the opposite of what I just said somehow).there are fanatics everwhere. My friend is convinced that China won WWII all my it'self. so Nationalism is alive and well for every nation.

But, anyway, I spent like a damn hour trying to convince this fool that just because he immigrated to the U.S. does not mean he has lost his German-ness(Or Prussian-ness, to be more precise), but somehow he beleives that just because he had to leave due to matters of life and death, it meant he renounced his former nationality completely.while he did become an American Citizen, I believe he renounced his German Citizen in 1933.

Does that mean he's no longer German? Not to me. Does this mean that Germany and Swiss cannot claim some honor to having Einstein as a citizen of their nation? as much as American can claim.

did you waste an hour slamming your head against a brick wall? dunno, that's up to you.

Now, what do you think? one man's opinion does not constitute America.

Do you mean the phone is German?

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philipp_Reis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Philipp_Reis#The_telephone

Recently, I've heard some idiot rambling on about how Einstein was actually one of AMERICA's greatest scientists. Now, before you get me wrong, I'm not anti- American and I'm not American either. I have no particular preset view on America.

But, not every fucking invention and scientist is American... I mean, hell, the USSR reached space first (Remember Yuri Gagarin, people...if that's how you spell his name), so it's not like they've always been the driving force of all civilisation or something(Of course, some America-centrists will come along and probably just refute me by saying the opposite of what I just said somehow).

But, anyway, I spent like a damn hour trying to convince this fool that just because he immigrated to the U.S. does not mean he has lost his German-ness(Or Prussian-ness, to be more precise), but somehow he beleives that just because he had to leave due to matters of life and death, it meant he renounced his former nationality completely.

Now, what do you think?

Well, since the Germans decided to butcher his people he decided to come to America and make it his home. I guess that makes him and American. ;) As far as teh Germans at the time were concerned, no Jew was German.

Einstein was German and American. Pretty simple, really.

My great grandfather actually ran over Einstein, and then became good freinds with him afterwards.

http://originaldo.com/einstein.rocky.jpg

Einstein was the Heavyweight Champion of the World!

Einstein was born a German citizen. At the age of 17, on January 28, 1896, he was released from his German citizenship by his own request and with the approval of his father. He remained stateless for five years. On February 21, 1901, he gained Swiss citizenship, which he never revoked. Einstein obtained Prussian citizenship in April 1914 when he entered the Prussian civil service, but due to the political situation and the persecution of Jewish people in Nazi Germany, he left civil service in March 1933 and thus also lost the Prussian citizenship. On October 1, 1940, Einstein became an American citizen. He remained both an American and a Swiss citizen until his death on April 18, 1955.

This roughly means that in his whole life of the first 17 years a citizen of the German state of Baden-Wurtemburg, was then stateless for 5 years, then at the age of 22 got a swiss citizenship he never revoked. However at the age of 35 he once again became a german citizen for 19 years (from '33 to 40 he was only a swiss again because he left civil service and so lost his right to Prussian citizenship). And then was given US citizenship at the age of 61, and was a Swiss-American for the next 15 years dieing at age 76.

So to cut it simply:

1) Until the age of 61 he only spoke German (Switzerland is trilingual with German being the main language). All his important works were written in German, even later in the US he would write his personal notes in German. So for all citizenship matters his mothertongue and language of preference was German.

2) He was a voluntary citizen of Germany for 36 years. And only applied to the US out of political necessity. Without the rise of the Nationalsocialist he would undoubtly have remained a Prussian/Swiss citizen until his death.

3) Out of his 76 years only 15 were as a US citizen. And his nobel prize and much of his most acclaimed writings were made before his emigration to the US.



Simply put: He was born a German, grew up a German. Spent his young adult life in Switzerland, and then for the majority of his mature life returned to Germany. And only spent his last years in the US.


** He rejected Israeli citizenship, as he personally saw the state of Israel not the way the jewish people should go, stating he thought that the jews having an own army, a nationalistic ideal was sad and the wrong direction. Also he was quite adamant in condemning Menachem Begin for his treatment of the Arabs, in particular the massacre at Deir Yassin. And for a while would have nothing to do with Israel, however was eventually moved to at least support setting up the education system in Israel, which he did with some contributions to the Hewbrew university in Jerusalem.

Recently, I've heard some idiot rambling on about how Einstein was actually one of AMERICA's greatest scientists. Now, before you get me wrong, I'm not anti- American and I'm not American either. I have no particular preset view on America.

But, not every fucking invention and scientist is American... I mean, hell, the USSR reached space first (Remember Yuri Gagarin, people...if that's how you spell his name), so it's not like they've always been the driving force of all civilisation or something(Of course, some America-centrists will come along and probably just refute me by saying the opposite of what I just said somehow).

But, anyway, I spent like a damn hour trying to convince this fool that just because he immigrated to the U.S. does not mean he has lost his German-ness(Or Prussian-ness, to be more precise), but somehow he beleives that just because he had to leave due to matters of life and death, it meant he renounced his former nationality completely.

Now, what do you think?

culturally he would be German, the culture of where you grow up affects your development, outlook on life and many other things......citizenship is just a change of official status.....like going from single to married.....

culturally he would be German, the culture of where you grow up affects your development, outlook on life and many other things......citizenship is just a change of official status.....like going from single to married.....

I guess that's why he wrote that letter to Roosevelt. I mean, like he was so loyal to Germany and all...

I guess that's why he wrote that letter to Roosevelt. I mean, like he was so loyal to Germany and all...

if you're not an immigrant you will never understand, come back and tell me when you do......

if you're not an immigrant you will never understand, come back and tell me when you do......

Yes, I am an immigrant. But I don't understand your post.

And I thought culturally, he was largely Jewish. And had spent some time living in Switzerland, which is not the same thing as living in Germany...

Yes, I am an immigrant. But I don't understand your post.

And I thought culturally, he was largely Jewish. And had spent some time living in Switzerland, which is not the same thing as living in Germany...

if you are an immigrant you would know better......you never lose your identity/culture.....your new country can modify your personality but it will never totally change it, if you are raised a German you will always be a German, it shapes how you view the world you can't change that......German Jews were still "German" the Germans(Nazi's) may not have seen it the same way but they were still German.....Jews fought in the German army loyally in WW1 only Nazi policies changed that......what religion you are (in this case Jewish)does not separate someone from his country/nationality, had the Nazi's not persecuted the Jews, German Jews would have no hesitation in WW2 fighting American Jews........

Yes, I am an immigrant. But I don't understand your post.

And I thought culturally, he was largely Jewish. And had spent some time living in Switzerland, which is not the same thing as living in Germany...In German speaking Switzerland it probably was. You've got to remember that any real German state had only existed for 50-70 years. Sure the Holy Roman Empire had existed for about 1000 years before 1800, but it was a loose confederation of principalities, duchies, republics and the like. The number of separate territories within the Holy Roman Empire at the Peace of Westphalia was several hundred. The Emperor never had any real power. Each territory was fiercely independent. So any cohesive national identity was relatively new. However the German culture and language was very dominant throughout the region.

Which is why Einstein can be considered German. For all but the last 15 years of his life Einstein lived in places which were culturally German. And, as seems to be the predominant in politics at the moment, first generation immigrants can never be truly integrated.

Anyway, I stand by my original statement. Einsteint considered concepts such as nationality outmoded. He was a human and a citizen of the world. I tend to think that self-determination is very important, much more important that the views of others. Thus one is what one considers oneself to be and not what others consider you to be. And Einstein would not consider himself of a certain nationality. Am I getting my point across yet?

if you are an immigrant you would know better......you never lose your identity/culture......

I did. I have been assimilated.

Recently, I've heard some idiot rambling on about how Einstein was actually one of AMERICA's greatest scientists. Now, before you get me wrong, I'm not anti- American and I'm not American either. I have no particular preset view on America.

But, not every fucking invention and scientist is American... I mean, hell, the USSR reached space first (Remember Yuri Gagarin, people...if that's how you spell his name), so it's not like they've always been the driving force of all civilisation or something(Of course, some America-centrists will come along and probably just refute me by saying the opposite of what I just said somehow).

But, anyway, I spent like a damn hour trying to convince this fool that just because he immigrated to the U.S. does not mean he has lost his German-ness(Or Prussian-ness, to be more precise), but somehow he beleives that just because he had to leave due to matters of life and death, it meant he renounced his former nationality completely.

Now, what do you think?

He's as German as German Nightmare, Die Meister der Smilies. Yeah, I just had to put that last bit in.

In German speaking Switzerland it probably was. You've got to remember that any real German state had only existed for 50-70 years. Sure the Holy Roman Empire had existed for about 1000 years before 1800, but it was a loose confederation of principalities, duchies, republics and the like. The number of separate territories within the Holy Roman Empire at the Peace of Westphalia was several hundred. The Emperor never had any real power. Each territory was fiercely independent. So any cohesive national identity was relatively new. However the German culture and language was very dominant throughout the region.

Which is why Einstein can be considered German. For all but the last 15 years of his life Einstein lived in places which were culturally German. And, as seems to be the predominant in politics at the moment, first generation immigrants can never be truly integrated.

Anyway, I stand by my original statement. Einsteint considered concepts such as nationality outmoded. He was a human and a citizen of the world. I tend to think that self-determination is very important, much more important that the views of others. Thus one is what one considers oneself to be and not what others consider you to be. And Einstein would not consider himself of a certain nationality. Am I getting my point across yet?

understand it clearly.....but that does not cancel out one's upbringing, your personality is shaped by your culture/environment....if Einstein had lived in Zimbabwe he'd still be German(culturally)......

Is Einstein German or American? Well, that is a difficult question to respond to. Certainly, he was born within the borders of the mass of land which we name "Germany." So were his parents. However, was he German? No; in mind, body, and spirit, he was American. That's why he emigrated to America instead of staying in his country of birth -- he may have been born there, but his soul was in the USA. He's as American as apple pie.

His original nationalitie was german

understand it clearly.....but that does not cancel out one's upbringing, your personality is shaped by your culture/environment....if Einstein had lived in Zimbabwe he'd still be German(culturally)......Yes, but one also picks up the culture that one lives in through out your life. Thus if you are born in Germany and live there throughout your childhood, and then move to another country then you will begin to pick up the new culture. Some people do this faster than others. In essence, if you ever leave your home culture for long enough them you create a mini culture of your own. It's not quite either culture, but a mix of the two.

More clearly. Your personality is constant shaped by your culture/environment that you live in throughout your life. You do not suddenly stop being affected by your environment once you reach a certain age. Culturally, Einstein could be considered German, American, Swiss, Italian, Catholic and Jewish. I for one do not know which predominated, if any.

Thus Einstein is a human who was born of non-practicing Jewish parents in Germany, he attended a Catholic primary school in germany, an Italian secondary school in Italy, a second secondary school in Switzerland, worked as a scientist in Switzerland, Germany and the USA, and he died in the USA having held German Swiss and American citizenship at various points in his life. The only constant throughout his whole life is that he was a human.

His original nationalitie was german

Enough with the crap. He was an American citizen when he made his most prominent discovery. Ergo, ipso facto, yadda yadda, the Atom bomb was made by an American scientist. End of discussion.

Stop. It really doesn't matter. At all. It doesn't change your relationship with him even if you considered him a citizen of your country. It doesn't change a fucking thing.

Enough with the crap. He was an American citizen when he made his most prominent discovery. Ergo, ipso facto, yadda yadda, the Atom bomb was made by an American scientist. End of discussion.You consider the invention of the atomic bomb the most important piece of Einstein's work?

He's as German as German Nightmare, Die Maschter of Smilies. Yeah, I just had to put that last bit in.
Holy schmoley!
While I am German, I have yet to accomplish anything close to Einstein's greatness. (Being the "Meister der Smileys" is nice but doesn't really cut it, IMHO!)(It feels good to be mentioned, though. Thanks, Johnny!)

You consider the invention of the atomic bomb the most important piece of Einstein's work?
I certainly wouldn't.

You consider the invention of the atomic bomb the most important piece of Einstein's work?

Most prominent. It is the one that has the greatest impact on the socio-political spectrum. Important sounds like it is necessarily a good thing.

Most prominent. It is the one that has the greatest impact on the socio-political spectrum. Important sounds like it is necessarily a good thing.
You're seriously weird!

Enough with the crap. He was an American citizen when he made his most prominent discovery. Ergo, ipso facto, yadda yadda, the Atom bomb was made by an American scientist. End of discussion.

Ahem

The Bomb was made by J. Robert Oppenheimer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Oppenheimer) and Enrico Fermi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enrico_Fermi).
regarding the Einstein-Szilárd letter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein-Szil%C3%A1rd_letter) to Roosvelt
Einstein himself did not work on the bomb project, however, and, according to Linus Pauling, he later regretted having signed this letter.
Einstein's most prominent discovery, the theory of relativity was made well before he become an american citizen, same applies for the theory of the fotovolthaic effect for which he got the Nobel prize.
Antonio Meucci invented the telephone, as explained here (http://www.esanet.it/chez_basilio/us_congr_res.htm)

Can we now finish this thread (as we begin repeating ourselves anyway) by concluding that Einstein can be considered either an American or a German, and that his inventions belong rightfully to Switzerland? :D

Just for the record. Politically speaking, Albert Einstein had dual citizenship.

German and US.

I do not think of Einstein by nationality, but as a genius whose accomplishments had less to do with borders and more to do with the entire world.

Recently, I've heard some idiot rambling on about how Einstein was actually one of AMERICA's greatest scientists. Now, before you get me wrong, I'm not anti- American and I'm not American either. I have no particular preset view on America.

But, not every fucking invention and scientist is American... I mean, hell, the USSR reached space first (Remember Yuri Gagarin, people...if that's how you spell his name), so it's not like they've always been the driving force of all civilisation or something(Of course, some America-centrists will come along and probably just refute me by saying the opposite of what I just said somehow).

But, anyway, I spent like a damn hour trying to convince this fool that just because he immigrated to the U.S. does not mean he has lost his German-ness(Or Prussian-ness, to be more precise), but somehow he beleives that just because he had to leave due to matters of life and death, it meant he renounced his former nationality completely.

Now, what do you think?

Born German, became a Swiss citizen, became a German citizen again, became an American citizen.

I would say... a German scientist.

Just for the record. Politically speaking, Albert Einstein had dual citizenship.

German and US.

I do not think of Einstein by nationality, but as a genius whose accomplishments had less to do with borders and more to do with the entire world.
Just for the record, politically speaking, those are actually the two citizenships he did *not* hold at the same time. :p
The times he had dual citizenship it was either Swiss and German or Swiss and American.

I thought this thread had died already? It's like my mother dearest when she's in nagging mode. "One more thing..." "Look at me when I'm talking to you!" ... no, wait, that thread hasn't done that. Yet.

Hey, you, The Infinite Dunes, look at me when I'm talking to you! Oh, and one more thing....

Oh, haha. :p page 3 was that?

Just for the record, politically speaking, those are actually the two citizenships he did *not* hold at the same time. :p
The times he had dual citizenship it was either Swiss and German or Swiss and American.

Thanks for the correction. <bows>

He did important things in America, therefore his existence is now the property of America. Obviously.





:rolleyes:

You're actually correct. Princeton University Press owns the rights to his collected papers. :p