NationStates Jolt Archive

The news outlets have recently covered stories on people who do very stupid things and want us to feel deeply sorry for them for some reason.

The first story was the unfortunate Steve "Crododile Hunter" Irwin. He died after being stung my a stingray while diving off the coast of Australia. A freak accident, yes, but this was a person who placed himself in harms way more times than I care to remember.

The second was James Kim, successful San Franciso business man and one of the senior editors of CNet magazine. While driving home from a Thanksgiving trip home to Oregon, he and his wife, with their children in the back seat no less, decided to take a "shortcut" through a deserted mountain road. They were caught in a snow storm and trapped for days, and after Kim left his wife and kids to search for help, he was found dead from exposure a few days later.

Now we hear another story of 3 mountain climbers on Oregons Mount Hood who were trapped on a pass after possibly being caught in an avalanche. One climber has already been found dead.

Do I feel sympathy for any of these people? Absolutely not. Why?

1. Steve Irwin Knew the risks of engaging dangerous animals, and his antics did a lot to educate people about nature and wildlife preservation. But his behavior was sometimes downright stupid when you consider this man had a family and should have thought of them and how his death would affect them when taking such risks.

2. James Kim and his wife were terribly irresponsible because they placed their childrens lives in direct danger when they decided to drive off into an unknown road in the middle of winter. This just smacks of downright stupidity and lack of common sense. Did it ever occur to them that getting there alive is more important than getting there late?

3. The Mt. Hood climbers understood the risks of their hobby, but still it irks me when I see all of the resources, man hours, fuel, tax dollars and time spent looking for them, not to mention putting th rescuers lives at risk all because they wanted to indulge in their sport.

While I feel sympathy for all the people who loved them and are mourning their loss, I feel zero sympathy for people who risk their lives and those of the people around them due to their stupidity, selfishness, or lack of common sense.

Now, does this make me a bad person? I don't think so. What say you?

Stupid people warrant no sympathy. Besides, their death makes natural selection's job easier.

Maybe not a "bad" person per se but I think it makes you a very cold and callous person.

By your logic a policeman, firefighter or even an ambulance driver should quit their job if they marry or have children because they should be thinking about the risk. Very soon you'd end up with a non existent emergency service (yes I know the critics will say its non existant anyway).

...Now, does this make me a bad person? I don't think so. What say you?

I think you just want us to call you out so you can argue against us.

Maybe not a "bad" person per se but I think it makes you a very cold and callous person.

Why? I guess a better question would be why should I or anyone feel sorry for people who die by their own hand?

By your logic a policeman, firefighter or even an ambulance driver should quit their job if they marry or have children because they should be thinking about the risk. Very soon you'd end up with a non existent emergency service (yes I know the critics will say its non existant anyway).

Wrong. You can hardly compare heroes like policemen, paramedics and firefighters to people who climb mountains as a hobby, that is just plain stupid. And as for Mr. Kim, he made a deadly and irresponsible decision when he drove HIS CHILDREN onto that deserted mountain road, placing them in danger. Very irresponsible indeed.

I agree with this thread. People who make stupid choices really don't deserve this much attention.

Why? I guess a better question would be why should I or anyone feel sorry for people who die by their own hand?



Wrong. You can hardly compare heroes like policemen, paramedics and firefighters to people who climb mountains as a hobby, that is just plain stupid. And as for Mr. Kim, he made a deadly and irresponsible decision when he drove HIS CHILDREN onto that deserted mountain road, placing them in danger. Very irresponsible indeed.

That's your opinion. You asked for mine, be happy.

Wrong. You can hardly compare heroes like policemen, paramedics and firefighters to people who climb mountains as a hobby, that is just plain stupid. And as for Mr. Kim, he made a deadly and irresponsible decision when he drove HIS CHILDREN onto that deserted mountain road, placing them in danger. Very irresponsible indeed.
and Mr. Irwin's job was to inform and educate, his method was going in close as possible to the animal. Yes, he knew the risks, and yes he made the statement that should he slip and a croc were to get him, he wanted those cameras rolling, even if it showed him being ripped to shreds by crocs he wanted to show the world the power and yes, the danger, of these animals. So yes, I feel sympathy for his family's loss.

Mountain climbers know the risks, those three took enough equiptment to handle most situations. (on one of the news casts, they read the list of equiptment that they took up with them... it was an impressive list.) now no one can prepare for bad luck, and I for one do not feel sorry for them, but I do feel sympathy since even the best can be brought down by bad luck.

now the Kim, the man who goes hiking into a blizzard to look for help... that was stupid. now I don't know if he had experience with snow. if he did, then I feel no sympathy... if he didn't, then I feel a bit of sympathy since he was put into a situation where he wasn't prepared for.

but either way, I still regret the loss of lives.

3. The Mt. Hood climbers understood the risks of their hobby, but still it irks me when I see all of the resources, man hours, fuel, tax dollars and time spent looking for them, not to mention putting th rescuers lives at risk all because they wanted to indulge in their sport. you?

Thats not being stupid. They were well aware of the risks of thier sport, but they chose to do it anyway and prepared. The only reason they are still alive is that before hand, they prepared emerency equipment, in case something went worng. A freak storm hit them, and they found a cave and lived in before moving on. To me, that sounds like intellegent people ina dangerous activity where something went wrong, but they were prepared. True, its a failry large waste of manpower etc. but it's not lack of intellengence.

Wrong. You can hardly compare heroes like policemen, paramedics and firefighters to people who climb mountains as a hobby, that is just plain stupid. And as for Mr. Kim, he made a deadly and irresponsible decision when he drove HIS CHILDREN onto that deserted mountain road, placing them in danger. Very irresponsible indeed.

Why should policemen, paramedics, and firefighters "Waste" their time trying to save people like Kim and those climbers, then? Wouldn't it be easier just to give up?

As for Kim himself, he didn't know there would be a sudden snowstorm; he left his family to try and protect them, not becuase he was an idiot.

Thats not being stupid. They were well aware of the risks of thier sport, but they chose to do it anyway and prepared. The only reason they are still alive is that before hand, they prepared emerency equipment, in case something went worng. A freak storm hit them, and they found a cave and lived in before moving on. To me, that sounds like intellegent people ina dangerous activity where something went wrong, but they were prepared. True, its a failry large waste of manpower etc. but it's not lack of intellengence.

Exactly, Steve Irwin made many many educational programs and did a lot of research into animal behaviour. The fact that he made so many indicates that he was clearly not STUPID. His death was an unfortunate accident.

Exactly, Steve Irwin made many many educational programs and did a lot of research into animal behaviour. The fact that he made so many indicates that he was clearly not STUPID. His death was an unfortunate accident.

Indeed. He was an extremely skilled professional who was victim of a freak accident. (Or possibly a dark plot hatched by stingrays to destroy the human race.)

The news outlets have recently covered stories on people who do very stupid things and want us to feel deeply sorry for them for some reason.


Steve Irwin Knew the risks of engaging dangerous animals, and his antics did a lot to educate people about nature and wildlife preservation. But his behavior was sometimes downright stupid when you consider this man had a family and should have thought of them and how his death would affect them when taking such risks.

The Mt. Hood climbers understood the risks of their hobby, but still it irks me when I see all of the resources, man hours, fuel, tax dollars and time spent looking for them, not to mention putting th rescuers lives at risk all because they wanted to indulge in their sport.

While I feel sympathy for all the people who loved them and are mourning their loss, I feel zero sympathy for people who risk their lives and those of the people around them due to their stupidity, selfishness, or lack of common sense.

Now, does this make me a bad person? I don't think so. What say you?

I think that your just mad cause people with more balls than you are getting attention. Brave? Hell yes. Stupid? Maybe. But if you think it about perhaps these people are smarter than us. Perhaps they knew that it would be better to expeirience life rather than debating on their computers in their safe little homes letting their lives slip away. Personally if I was of age I would drink one down for these guys. (except those parents driving off onto the road, that was just dumb.)

Right...life isn't worth living if you're going to throw it away climbing a mountain. If they died in a manly way, such as dying due being beaten to death by a bear they were wrestling, or dying due to fighting off a horde of pirates, I might have sympathy/respect. And whilst my respect is by no means vital, it's a damn good honour.

It means you might want to work on being a little more empathetic. After all, have you never taken an unneccesary risk?

Steve Irwin was a pro and he was killed by a freak accident, not by taking chances. Bad analogy. As for the others, Kim was on a road that had not been marked as dangerous as far as I know. What I have read is that they just caught a bad break and he was trying to save his family. Someone with a little training wouldn't have been caught like that, but someone with training might have been caught using it to save someone who had an accident like Mr. Kim. The mountain climbers were trained, and got bit. Overall I think the rescue was appropriate--the belief that someone is there to help is one of the things that make our society a nice place to live, and risk takers are not just drains on our finances. They often also drive forward technology by testing it and stretching the limits of what we can do.

All in all though, I do bemoan the fact that we have made death by accident, disease and starvation so uinlikely. We're overpopulating because of it, where before our tech level rose so much, our pop level was a bit more stable...

And as for all the sympathy and news coverage: that''s entertainment! *makes jazz hands*

It means you might want to work on being a little more empathetic. After all, have you never taken an unneccesary risk?

No. Every risk I have taken has been necessary. And I rarely take risks.

No. Every risk I have taken has been necessary. And I rarely take risks.

You're probably a boring, unsuccesful person then.

No. Every risk I have taken has been necessary. And I rarely take risks.

Im glad someone's willing to take risks, or where would we have gotten? If some guy didnt say, im going across that ocean to see whats over there, where would America be? Life is about risks.

I doubt you can call the first and the third example "stupid". Just because they put themselves through risky lives or hobbies doesn't mean they're stupid.
Oh, and the ammount of "sympathy" I feel for certain people dying, seriously has nothing to do with the risks associated with what they did, but what I knew about that person in particular.

The news outlets have recently covered stories on people who do very stupid things and want us to feel deeply sorry for them for some reason.

The first story was the unfortunate Steve "Crododile Hunter" Irwin. He died after being stung my a stingray while diving off the coast of Australia. A freak accident, yes, but this was a person who placed himself in harms way more times than I care to remember.

The second was James Kim, successful San Franciso business man and one of the senior editors of CNet magazine. While driving home from a Thanksgiving trip home to Oregon, he and his wife, with their children in the back seat no less, decided to take a "shortcut" through a deserted mountain road. They were caught in a snow storm and trapped for days, and after Kim left his wife and kids to search for help, he was found dead from exposure a few days later.

Now we hear another story of 3 mountain climbers on Oregons Mount Hood who were trapped on a pass after possibly being caught in an avalanche. One climber has already been found dead.

Do I feel sympathy for any of these people? Absolutely not. Why?

1. Steve Irwin Knew the risks of engaging dangerous animals, and his antics did a lot to educate people about nature and wildlife preservation. But his behavior was sometimes downright stupid when you consider this man had a family and should have thought of them and how his death would affect them when taking such risks.

2. James Kim and his wife were terribly irresponsible because they placed their childrens lives in direct danger when they decided to drive off into an unknown road in the middle of winter. This just smacks of downright stupidity and lack of common sense. Did it ever occur to them that getting there alive is more important than getting there late?

3. The Mt. Hood climbers understood the risks of their hobby, but still it irks me when I see all of the resources, man hours, fuel, tax dollars and time spent looking for them, not to mention putting th rescuers lives at risk all because they wanted to indulge in their sport.

While I feel sympathy for all the people who loved them and are mourning their loss, I feel zero sympathy for people who risk their lives and those of the people around them due to their stupidity, selfishness, or lack of common sense.

Now, does this make me a bad person? I don't think so. What say you?

Ouch. You are a bad person.

Kim's diverting onto a poorly marked logging road wasn't stupid. What was stupid was him walking off in some sort of heroic bravado trying to save his family and winding up dead like a dumbass trying to find the road they were already on.

Kim's diverting onto a poorly marked logging road wasn't stupid. What was stupid was him walking off in some sort of heroic bravado trying to save his family and winding up dead like a dumbass trying to find the road they were already on.

Not really, they were trapped for days probably low on food and he went to look for help.

Im glad someone's willing to take risks, or where would we have gotten? If some guy didnt say, im going across that ocean to see whats over there, where would America be? Life is about risks.

Hardly a risk. Even if it was, it was necessary as to find a quicker trade route.

i felt bad for irwin because of the freak accident...the snowy road i dont care about at all...the three climbers eh its not like it was a freak storm as one guy out it...thousands of people are trapped every year mountainclimbing....seems like a waste of ta xpayers dollars however you cant just let them die and if they wanna do it you have to let them

still only feel badly about irwin because of the nature and he was the only one who i kinda "knew" in a way

Hardly a risk. Even if it was, it was necessary as to find a quicker trade route.

I'll let the brilliance of "hardly a risk" slide to ask what you mean by 'necessary' as there was already a trade route and a quicker one would have just been a convenience.

It would have increased efficiency, an ideal which is necessary to pursue at all costs.

All in all though, I do bemoan the fact that we have made death by accident, disease and starvation so uinlikely. We're overpopulating because of it, where before our tech level rose so much, our pop level was a bit more stable.*

I like not starving, dying of disease, or suffering a painful death from an accident; I'd rather have a higher population than have to worry about starving or dying of disease in my 40's or seeing my kids die from illnesses that could have been prevented.

Technology is amazing because it enables us both to circumvent those natural restrictions on population as well as eventually slow population growth painlessly through a higher educational level and a wealther population.

It would have increased efficiency, an ideal which is necessary to pursue at all costs.

Which is more important? Minimizing risk or maximizing efficiency? And, for that matter, what of utility or value?

Hardly a risk. Even if it was, it was necessary as to find a quicker trade route.

No, it was a fucking gigantic risk, because Columbus thought that the Earth was half the size it was, and refused to listen to evidence otherwise.

Not really, they were trapped for days probably low on food and he went to look for help.
Doesn't matter, he's a fucking idiot. Leaving is the first thing you don't do when in that situation. Two, he didn't backtrack. He went 15 fucking miles around the foothills to end up a few miles south of where he was. If he had backtracked and followed the road, even if covered in snow it would be obvious where it was, he could've found the inn.

I like not starving, dying of disease, or suffering a painful death from an accident; I'd rather have a higher population than have to worry about starving or dying of disease in my 40's or seeing my kids die from illnesses that could have been prevented.

Technology is amazing because it enables us both to circumvent those natural restrictions on population as well as eventually slow population growth painlessly through a higher educational level and a wealther population.except Technology brings about a whole new level of problems.

Genetic Diseases that would've died out years ago, lives on now because of Modern Medicines. Adulthood was once at 13... now it's 20.

what would've taken 3-10 years to learn now takes 13 - 20+

The quantity of life is extended, but that doesn't guarentee the Quality of life. As more and more people live to 90+ years, it's become necessary to think about pushing back the retirement age to reduce the number of Retirees.

conditions that people once lived with and worked through now require medicines and treatment... usually at a cost. (RLS anyone?)

It's now easier to kill people than it was a thousand years ago, or even a hundred years ago, or even 50 years ago...

The world that Technology created also made certain conditions to become prevailant... Obesity, Neglect, Fatigue, Stress induced illnesses... etc...

I'm not saying Technology is bad, but it does bring about a whole new set of problems.

Doesn't matter, he's a fucking idiot. Leaving is the first thing you don't do when in that situation. Two, he didn't backtrack. He went 15 fucking miles around the foothills to end up a few miles south of where he was. If he had backtracked and followed the road, even if covered in snow it would be obvious where it was, he could've found the inn.moving though a blizzard is disorienting. there is no indication that the Road was reconizable when he decided to go on his trek. also, there is snowblindness to deal with.


Mind you, I'm not saying he wasn't STUPID...

Doesn't matter, he's a fucking idiot. Leaving is the first thing you don't do when in that situation. Two, he didn't backtrack. He went 15 fucking miles around the foothills to end up a few miles south of where he was. If he had backtracked and followed the road, even if covered in snow it would be obvious where it was, he could've found the inn.

Where are you getting this information from? what inn? 15 miles? do you know something we don't?

moving though a blizzard is disorienting. there is no indication that the Road was reconizable when he decided to go on his trek. also, there is snowblindness to deal with.

I would think putting my back to the back of the car would get the desired effect.

Where are you getting this information from? what inn? 15 miles? do you know something we don't?
Yeah, it's what channel CNN is on.

moving though a blizzard is disorienting. there is no indication that the Road was reconizable when he decided to go on his trek. also, there is snowblindness to deal with.


Mind you, I'm not saying he wasn't STUPID...I don't know, if the blizzard is that strong that he gets disoriented it's highly unlikely there'll be enough sunlight for anyone to get snow blind.

I would think putting my back to the back of the car would get the desired effect. True, that would work if the road was straight as an arrow and he stopped the car without having it turn one degree either way.... Also one turn in the road and he could be off the road wandering around... ;)

add to that the fact that the topography can change depending on the amount of snowfall...

now carflares... Does anyone know if melted snow would put out carflares?

I don't know, if the blizzard is that strong that he gets disoriented it's highly unlikely there'll be enough sunlight for anyone to get snow blind.
and not knowing the weather conditions when he set out... I just covered both bases...

heavy blizzard would've covered the car... no blizzard I would've dug the car out to make it visible...

but the last thing I would do... is leave my family in the car.

I'm not going to bother arguing with you over whether those people were stupid, because it's a matter of opinion. There's a very thin line between bravery and stupidity anyhow. However, I do feel sympathy for them, and will feel sympathy for the loss of any human life, regardless of his/her intelligence.

Steve Irwin knew the risks inherent in his chosen line of work, as did the mountain climbers AND (more importantly) those who go to RESCUE mountain climbers.

If you have no idea what climbing entails and you go out ill-prepared and clueless, you're stupid and then I might have a problem with a costly rescue effort.

Now, as for the family in the blizzard. Anyone DUMB enough to think they can navigate logging roads in a snowstorm without copious navigation aids such as detailed Forest Service maps, GPS or the like, well, I gotta go with the OP. I'll be a week late if I have to be in order to arrive without an overnight (or longer) adventure on unmarked, uninhabited and treacherous wilderness roads. That strikes me as classic techno-impatience. People so focused on the digital universe can be utterly incompetent in some parts of reality, and the obsession with saving an hour or two that makes him a powerhouse in the computer arena made him a man-sicle in the mountains. My only sympathy is that his wife didn't try harder to look at the route Kim was attempting and pull rank, and more still for the kids who had no say in the matter whatsoever.

That said, life is risk. The leading cause of death is birth, so you can sit in your room, playing with your penis all day, or you can go out and experience the world, and accept the level of risk that comes with that experience. Myself, I choose experience, but not without a sense of reason and knowing my own limits and capabilities. I've hiked up 14,000-foot mountains, but a) I'd never try it in winter, and b) I'd never try climbing -- because I know what I can do and I don't wish to try climbing.

I'm not going to bother arguing with you over whether those people were stupid, because it's a matter of opinion. There's a very thing line between bravery and stupidity anyhow. However, I do feel sympathy for them, and will feel sympathy for the loss of any human life, regardless of his/her intelligence.

You rock. :)

I'm not going to bother arguing with you over whether those people were stupid, because it's a matter of opinion. There's a very thing line between bravery and stupidity anyhow. However, I do feel sympathy for them, and will feel sympathy for the loss of any human life, regardless of his/her intelligence.

My thoughts exactly.

I'm not going to bother arguing with you over whether those people were stupid, because it's a matter of opinion. There's a very thing line between bravery and stupidity anyhow. However, I do feel sympathy for them, and will feel sympathy for the loss of any human life, regardless of his/her intelligence.

There's a book titled "Caught in Crystal" by Patricia C. Wrede.

one passage comes to mind. the main character's 10 year old son rushes to his mother's rescue from an imagined threat...

"what you did was very brave."
"was it?"
"were you scared?"
"a little..."
"yet you came anyway... that is what being brave is. to do something even if it scared you."
"but you said it was a dumb thing to do."
"it was... Being brave does not mean being smart. you can be dumb but still brave."
"Awww... You mean I have to be both Brave and Smart... At the same time!?"

You rock. :)
Straughn thinks I rock? w00t! :D This is a day to celebrate! *breaks out champaign*
There's a book titled "Caught in Crystal" by Patricia C. Wrede.

one passage comes to mind. the main character's 10 year old son rushes to his mother's rescue from an imagined threat...

"what you did was very brave."
"was it?"
"were you scared?"
"a little..."
"yet you came anyway... that is what being brave is. to do something even if it scared you."
"but you said it was a dumb thing to do."
"it was... Being brave does not mean being smart. you can be dumb but still brave."
"Awww... You mean I have to be both Brave and Smart... At the same time!?"
awww, that's cute. :)

It's true though. Most heros are either considered incredibly brave or incredibly stupid, and often both. What makes them heroes is that they somehow survived the supposedly stupidity and accomplished great things. In fact, IMHO, Steve Irwin can be considered one of those heros. Many would consider his intimacy with crocodiles stupid, but at the same time he managed to reach thousands about the importance of species conservation. It is truly tragic that he died. :(

Straughn thinks I rock? w00t! :D This is a day to celebrate! *breaks out champaign*

Always have, my dear.
*bows*

Stupid people warrant no sympathy. Besides, their death makes natural selection's job easier.

Darwin Awards, anyone?

And as for Mr. Kim, he made a deadly and irresponsible decision when he drove HIS CHILDREN onto that deserted mountain road, placing them in danger. Very irresponsible indeed.

Dude, you are a total jerk for even thinking this. The fact that the road he was caught on wasn't supposed to even be open seems to be eluding you. The fault doesn't lie with the dead man you so gleefully insult in your callous, no class, idiotic, manner. The fault lies with the OBLM (Oregon Bureau of Land Management) workers who forgot to close the gate to the road that they got trapped on while following a google map. Next time do some research before spouting off like a teenage know-it-all ass.

Meh. Stupidity should be deadly, and in a perfect world, would kill its host before they reproduce.

and Mr. Irwin's job was to inform and educate, his method was going in close as possible to the animal. Yes, he knew the risks, and yes he made the statement that should he slip and a croc were to get him, he wanted those cameras rolling, even if it showed him being ripped to shreds by crocs he wanted to show the world the power and yes, the danger, of these animals. So yes, I feel sympathy for his family's loss.

i do feel sympathy for his family's loss - i'm absolutely baffled why some of my workmates (advertisers in new zealand) were on the verge of tears for him

on a long enough time line the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

he took massive (and often flamboyant) risks daily for many years

personally i think he died well - how else should steve irwin die?
getting knocked down at a street crossing by some brainless teenager?
in bed of old age, when he's faded?

hunter s thompson - now there's a man who knew how to die!

Dude, you are a total jerk for even thinking this. The fact that the road he was caught on wasn't supposed to even be open seems to be eluding you. The fault doesn't lie with the dead man you so gleefully insult in your callous, no class, idiotic, manner. The fault lies with the OBLM (Oregon Bureau of Land Management) workers who forgot to close the gate to the road that they got trapped on while following a google map. Next time do some research before spouting off like a teenage know-it-all ass.

There we go sometimes there is no way of knowing how dangerous a situation is until its too late.