NationStates Jolt Archive

Halliburton isn't taking all the money out of Iraq. Nor does it seem that the US is pilfering the oil money.

It looks like the billions in oil wealth is pouring into the Iraqi economy, and the Iraqis are having a boom time in business.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16241340/site/newsweek/

Now, if it will only do this well long enough for the various sides to stop shooting and killing each other...

Gee... earnings of 333 Million in 2005...
34000 Registered companies.... up from 8000 in 2003...
Salaries increased by about and over 100% and Income tax reduced to 15% since the fall of Saddam...
More cars on the street, more money that people are spending...

and none of this good news is reported till NOW?

Gee... earnings of 333 Million in 2005...
34000 Registered companies.... up from 8000 in 2003...
Salaries increased by about and over 100% and Income tax reduced to 15% since the fall of Saddam...
More cars on the street, more money that people are spending...

and none of this good news is reported till NOW?

I'm sure the Nazz will say it's not real, it's only one source, and this is not worth mentioning, because it's a vision from Retardo World.

I'm sure the Nazz will say it's not real, it's only one source, and this is not worth mentioning, because it's a vision from Retardo World.

Is that in any way related to the Bizarro World?

Is that in any way related to the Bizarro World?

I think so, but you'll have to ask Nazz for definitions.

I'm sure the Nazz will say it's not real, it's only one source, and this is not worth mentioning, because it's a vision from Retardo World.

However, it's the small things like this that put the sacrifices our men and women made over there into perspective. Life is improving, sure there's still the car bombs, the kidnappings but there are signs of improvement as well as growth.

it's these positive stories that soften the sting of the losses suffered.

I wonder what other improvements are being done yet not reported?

It is good to see that the media isn't entirely focused on portraying the war in an evil light.
One of the positive statistics I've always wondered about is how many insurgents we have killed or captured. Anyone have numbers from a reliable source?
Not to say that loss of human life is a positive thing, but I would like to see American losses put into perspective...

To be fair though, going up from virtually nothing (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3181248.stm) isn't that hard. Though it's nice to hear some good news, the underlying issues aren't yet solved and a few anecdotes don't change that (example: Lower taxes. How is that good news? It's a policy, good news would be if it showed positive effects).

The article states as much by saying that as many as 50% of the labour force could still be unemployed. Until the security situation improves, I don't see how real structural growth can be achieved.

To be fair though, going up from virtually nothing (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3181248.stm) isn't that hard. Though it's nice to hear some good news, the underlying issues aren't yet solved and a few anecdotes don't change that (example: Lower taxes. How is that good news? It's a policy, good news would be if it showed positive effects).

The article states as much by saying that as many as 50% of the labour force could still be unemployed. Until the security situation improves, I don't see how real structural growth can be achieved.

See? I told you someone would say it's meaningless.

See? I told you someone would say it's meaningless.

Put a cork in it...

The war is still going on, and thousands of people are dying every month. The problems currently outweigh what little good there is.

See? I told you someone would say it's meaningless.

Some people will always find something wrong with everything. Even if tomorrow all the fighting will stop, the Sunnies, Shiites and Kurds in Iraq will hug and have an orgy, and release white doves into the air. Someone will post on here or another random internet forum "But but but....the problem isn't solved! This is just a cute little antidote!" It's the fact of life.

Put a cork in it...

The war is still going on, and thousands of people are dying every month. The problems currently outweigh what little good there is.

and the fact that there is war going on and that thousands of people are dying makes such good news that much more valuable.

especially if it shows some improvements for people We claim to be fighting for.

See? I told you someone would say it's meaningless.
Look, I'm starting my fourth year in economics next year. If you want I can explain the neoclassical capital transition equation to you, that would tell you what's happening here.

The article doesn't actually tell us all that much. I'd like to see what Global Insight actually reported, because at least they know what they're talking about. Anecdotes about a successful company or more cars on the road are meaningless, and the mention of lower tax rates tells me that they didn't actually have enough stuff to put in their article. Lower taxes are a policy, not a success. A success would be the outcome of a policy.

And I didn't say it was meaningless. It may well have meaning, but given that we're still looking at potentially 50% unemployment, that meaning has not yet transpired.

Gee... earnings of 333 Million in 2005...
34000 Registered companies.... up from 8000 in 2003...
Salaries increased by about and over 100% and Income tax reduced to 15% since the fall of Saddam...
More cars on the street, more money that people are spending...

and none of this good news is reported till NOW?
That seems like a bullshit measure to me, since the invasion happened in 2003. Bit of an artificially low starting point, I think.

http://www.workingforchange.com/webgraphics/WFC/TMW112906.jpg

That seems like a bullshit measure to me, since the invasion happened in 2003. Bit of an artificially low starting point, I think.
Can you find a differing number for 2003?

And note, that's Registered Companies... not successes or even companies that started after 2003, but those that Registered in 2004 and later.

Oh, well that's all right then. Whew! *wipes brow*

Thought there was problem over there for a minute.

This seems like a rather rosy tint on an otherwise very bleak situation.

The article seems to rant on about a company called Iraqna qutie a bit. Over the past two years Iraqna's market share has dropped 12 percentage points and is no longer market leader. The company has alleged that the Iraqi government is trying to run them out of business by breaking into their HQ and seizing equipment. They also claim that they have proved that a Kuwaiti firm jams their signal.

I have no idea how the Iraqna figures add. I have one article claim that it makes $40 million profit a year off of 700,000 users, who pay on average $17/month. $40 million off of revenues of $140 million? Sweet.

The article mentions GDP growth rates of 17% for 2005. In contrast the World Factbook lists the GDP growth rate as -3% for 2005. Mind telling me where that variance of 20 percentage points came from? The article also mentions that unemployment rates are at about 30-50%. The CIA believes for the previous year the unemployment rate was 25-30%.

The article talks about a wonderful concept called the trickle down effect, which it claims is even present when money meant for aid work is skimmed off the top. However when one considers that salaries are rising and so is unemployment it can only be assumed that the gap between the rich and poor is getting wider, and fast. I hardly believe this is conducive to a stable economy.

Imports exceed exports by 10% even when the export of crude oil is taken into account (which accounts for 84% of Iraq's exports). Iraq already exceeds its prewar production, so it is unlikely to gain any additional exports through oil.

In the Budget expenditures exceed revenues by 24%.

Inflation is approximately 33%, so those nest eggs that the article talks of are fast becoming worthless.

All in all I would say that the economy of Iraq is imploding with the rich getting richer and poor getting poorer. A new oligarchy is emerging which do its best to remain segregated from the rest of Iraqi society, whilst employing security guards who will be removed from society and regard other Iraqis dispassionately due to the dangers associated with their job. So the lack of money, and the increasing segregation will in turn lead to more violence.

This article is either misinformed or a propaganda of sorts.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16241340/site/newsweek/page/2/
http://www.cellular-news.com/story/20515.php
http://www.tradearabia.com/tanews/newsdetails.asp?Ref=S&Article=79288&Sn=&Cnt=31
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_12/b3925076.htm
https://cia.gov/cia//publications/factbook/geos/iz.html

Sounds to me more like unbridled capitalism. We take for granted a lot of the systems we have in place to control these types of behaviors. This sounds a lot like the wild west in bad need of a sheriff. These things do take a bit of time to get under control. Generally positive news though.

Halliburton isn't taking all the money out of Iraq. Nor does it seem that the US is pilfering the oil money.
They already took plenty!
Oil not metered during CPA rule (http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,1408187,00.html)
Other companies appear to have charged the authority for work they never did, or to have paid subcontractors to do it for them for a fraction of what they were paid by the CPA. Yet, even when confronted by cast-iron evidence of malfeasance, the authority kept employing them. When the inspector general recommended that the US army withhold payments from companies which appear to have overcharged it, it ignored him. No one has been charged or punished. The US department of justice refuses to assist the whistle-blowers who are taking these companies to court.

What makes all this so serious is that more than half the money the CPA was giving away did not belong to the US government but to the people of Iraq. Most of it was generated by the coalition's sales of oil. If you think the UN's oil-for-food programme was leaky, take a look at the CPA's oil-for-reconstruction scheme. Throughout the entire period of CPA rule, there was no metering of the oil passing through Iraq's pipelines, which means that there was no way of telling how much of the country's wealth the authority was extracting, or whether it was paying a fair price for it. The CPA, according to the international monitoring body charged with auditing it, was also "unable to estimate the amount of petroleum ... that was smuggled"

I am all for some good news out of Iraq but lets put this story in its proper perspective.
Thousands of Iraqi's are being killed every month by "death squads" that operate blatantly in broad daylight.
Hundreds of thousands have been killed and over a million have fled the country.
Unemployment is ranging from 25% to 50% depending on who you ask.

This is not exactly what anyone could interpret as being "mission accomplished"!

Halliburton isn't taking all the money out of Iraq. Nor does it seem that the US is pilfering the oil money.Anything to vindicate the greedy, eh? ;)

Put a cork in it...

The war is still going on, and thousands of people are dying every month. The problems currently outweigh what little good there is.

If I recall correctly, the Democrats ran on the platform of "we'll solve the Iraq problem - it's easy, because we're smart and teh President is stupid".

Well, I'm waiting...

If I recall correctly, the Democrats ran on the platform of "we'll solve the Iraq problem - it's easy, because we're smart and teh President is stupid".

Well, I'm waiting...

cry me a river.

Your President has had 4 years to solve the problem in Iraq and you didn't peep up once during that time castigating him.

The Dems were voted in just over a month ago, and (obviously I need to remind you - others have repeatedly but it appears not to have sunk in yet) have yet to actually be sworn in and take control of congress.
Yet here you are, ever-so-busy making threads left, right and center (or should that be 'right, further right and even more right than Gengis') decrying their lack of effort and work in clearing up the mess your beloved GOP took 4 years to make.

The word 'Pathetic' springs to mind.