NationStates Jolt Archive

Okay, another thing I get tired of. People complaining that homosexuality or anal sex or whatever is "unnatural"

Now, there are homosexual dogs and several other types of animals.

But do you not what happens all the time in nature? Rape. Does that mean that it's unnatural to outlaw rape? Outlaw murder? Outlaw incest?

I'm just wondering.

Heres something I wonder about when we talk about anal sex in nature. Are we sure they're doing it for the sexual side of it, or is it for the Alpha male to show the other males that they are the dominate one?

Heres something I wonder about when we talk about anal sex in nature. Are we sure they're doing it for the sexual side of it, or is it for the Alpha male to show the other males that they are the dominate one?

Can you separate power and sex with humans?

Heres something I wonder about when we talk about anal sex in nature. Are we sure they're doing it for the sexual side of it, or is it for the Alpha male to show the other males that they are the dominate one?

Well with animals like bonbos the form long lasting homosexual partnerships ...

Are we sure they're doing it for the sexual side of it

well they do seem to enjoy it...

edit: rape doesn't occur that often in nature does it? (especially since they have a few months where they will fuck anything)

If it's not natural, then why do humans -- who are natural beings -- do it? If humans do it, then it must be natural, because humans are natural. If robots did it, or machines that were not created by the processes of nature, only then can it be called unnatural.

Sigh.

Well with animals like bonbos the form long lasting homosexual partnerships ...

ahh. Interesting. Meh I don't really care either ways. Whatever you and another consenting adult do in the privacy of your own home, is your business and your business alone.

If it's not natural, then why do humans -- who are natural beings -- do it? If humans do it, then it must be natural, because humans are natural. If robots did it, or machines that were not created by the processes of nature, only then can it be called unnatural.

Sigh.

Please quit with the logic. It is not welcome here.

edit: rape doesn't occur that often in nature does it? (especially since they have a few months where they will fuck anything)

can animals consent?

can animals consent?

With other animals yes, but with humans no.

well they do seem to enjoy it...

edit: rape doesn't occur that often in nature does it? (especially since they have a few months where they will fuck anything)

Actually, yes it does. Wasn't there a thread here once about two birds raping another bird to death?

With other animals yes.

I think you give animals in general too much credit for their thought processes.

With other animals yes, but with humans no.

Lucy, you got some 'splainin' to do . . .

Please quit with the logic. It is not welcome here.

"Don't go clouding the issue with facts now!"

Heres something I wonder about when we talk about anal sex in nature. Are we sure they're doing it for the sexual side of it, or is it for the Alpha male to show the other males that they are the dominate one?

well don't forget, even abstracting same gender out of it, there are plenty of humans who enjoy a bit of dominance with their sex

"Don't go clouding the issue with facts now!"

That is also quite valid.

With other animals yes, but with humans no.

then they would have the power to "not consent" which means that probably there is rape in the animal kingdom?

Actually, yes it does. Wasn't there a thread here once about two birds raping another bird to death?

:eek:

well don't forget, even abstracting same gender out of it, there are plenty of humans who enjoy a bit of dominance with their sex

Yea, but isn't it usually cosentual though?

then they would have the power to "not consent" which means that probably there is rape in the animal kingdom?

I never denied there was rape in the animal kingdom.

Okay, another thing I get tired of. People complaining that homosexuality or anal sex or whatever is "unnatural"

Of course it's unnatural. Most things worth while are; love, chocolate, roller-coasters, sweet sweet sodomy...

Of course it's unnatural. Most things worth while are.

Actually,
If it's not natural, then why do humans -- who are natural beings -- do it? If humans do it, then it must be natural, because humans are natural. If robots did it, or machines that were not created by the processes of nature, only then can it be called unnatural.

Thus, anything we do that doesn't involve something that couldn't have been created naturally, is natural. On the other hand, watching movies, going on the internet, and drinking soda pop are unnatural. But homosexuality? It's as natural as, um, something very natural. Yeah.

Of course it's unnatural. Most things worth while are; love, chocolate, roller-coasters, sweet sweet sodomy...

:D :eek: *runs away*

well don't forget, even abstracting same gender out of it, there are plenty of humans who enjoy a bit of dominance with their sex

I can attest to that! Although a 'bit' may be inaccurate...

Actually,

Thus, anything we do that doesn't involve something that couldn't have been created naturally, is natural. On the other hand, watching movies, going on the internet, and drinking soda pop are unnatural. But homosexuality? It's as natural as, um, something very natural. Yeah.

And what do you know about gay sex? Pfft!

:D :eek: *runs away*

Like you don't indulge...

Like you don't indulge...

.........

I refuse to comment

.........

I refuse to comment

Knew it.

Of course it's unnatural. Most things worth while are; love, chocolate, roller-coasters, sweet sweet sodomy...

how about loving chocolate while being sodomised in a roller-coaster?

then they would have the power to "not consent" which means that probably there is rape in the animal kingdom?

I'm pretty sure there is. I would imagine that rape occurs where sex is clearly linked to dominance, like in a group of chimpanzees. I don't know it for a fact though...

how about loving chocolate while being sodomised in a roller-coaster?

oh, that's not even a sin.........as long as you aren't wearing socks.

I'm pretty sure there is. I would imagine that rape occurs where sex is clearly linked to dominance, like in a group of chimpanzees. I don't know it for a fact though...

you are correct.

actually an interest study i saw.
Chimpanzees are extremely agressive, patriarchal society. Attack rival tribes, like a bit cannibalism, etc... males force themselves on unwilling females, etc..

whereas bonobos, are a matriarchal society where sex is freely available. Total pacifists

you are correct.

actually an interest study i saw.
Chimpanzees are extremely agressive, patriarchal society. Attack rival tribes, like a bit cannibalism, etc... males force themselves on unwilling females, etc..

whereas bonobos, are a matriarchal society where sex is freely available. Total pacifists

Heh. I always liked bonobos. One of the few species that actually knows how to handle sex. :)

oh, that's not even a sin.........as long as you aren't wearing socks.

yeah yeah whatever helps you sleep at night;)

Actually, yes it does. Wasn't there a thread here once about two birds raping another bird to death?

It was one bird, and the other bird was already dead. And a different species.

Heh. I always liked bonobos. One of the few species that actually knows how to handle sex. :)

yeah the more the better. good on 'em!

they don't get much done though. don't know why though....

It was one bird, and the other bird was already dead. And a different species.

And birds can be rather odd anyway. Who knows what that fellow imprinted after hatching. I remember a case of a peacock in a zoo who only courted turtels...

yeah the more the better. good on 'em!

they don't get much done though. don't know why though....

They don't seem to mind, though, do they? ;)

you are correct.

actually an interest study i saw.
Chimpanzees are extremely agressive, patriarchal society. Attack rival tribes, like a bit cannibalism, etc... males force themselves on unwilling females, etc..

whereas bonobos, are a matriarchal society where sex is freely available. Total pacifists

Whether you can call it rape though depends on how much "conciousness" you attribute to the animal and whether you deem it to be able to tell "right" from "wrong" in the way we do. Or indeed whether they have anything at all resembling our morals.

If I remember correctly I'm sure there have been human cultures in the past (possibly still) where women were the property of their husbands and had no rights whatsoever. Under these conditions rape could not occur by their standards, only by ours today.

Whether you can call it rape though depends on how much "conciousness" you attribute to the animal and whether you deem it to be able to tell "right" from "wrong" in the way we do. Or indeed whether they have anything at all resembling our morals.

If I remember correctly I'm sure there have been human cultures in the past (possibly still) where women were the property of their husbands and had no rights whatsoever. Under these conditions rape could not occur by their standards, only by ours today.

I define rape as forcing someone to sexual acts against his/her will.
Morality only comes into the picture when deciding if and how to punish rape, and if it is to be regarded as crime.

Whether you can call it rape though depends on how much "conciousness" you attribute to the animal and whether you deem it to be able to tell "right" from "wrong" in the way we do. Or indeed whether they have anything at all resembling our morals.

If I remember correctly I'm sure there have been human cultures in the past (possibly still) where women were the property of their husbands and had no rights whatsoever. Under these conditions rape could not occur by their standards, only by ours today.

On the other hand, there's a place in China of all places where the women own their husbands and play leader roles.

I remember a case of a peacock in a zoo who only courted turtels...

well I can't blame the peacock for being confused what the hell you either have an Exoskeleton or an Endoskeleton not both :mad:

yes this has been bothering me all day

We do lots of things that aren't "natural."
We drive cars.
We use computers.
We talk on our phones.
We watch tv.
We wear clothes.
We play video games.
We write things down on paper.
We ride bikes.
And we have butt seks.

then they would have the power to "not consent" which means that probably there is rape in the animal kingdom?

Most definitely. That's why the whole idea of things being good or evil based on what's natural is utter nonsense.

Actually, one of my favorite articles in The Onion was about sexism being found throughout the animal kingdom, and how awful it was that animals treated each other that way. And while I think it was making a valid point about how anti-sexist folks sometimes tend to go overboard in attacking perfectly functional and useful gender roles out of a false sense of what equality entails, it also makes a good point about nature not necessarily being a perfect source of moral principles.

then they would have the power to "not consent" which means that probably there is rape in the animal kingdom?

Yes. My history teacher last year told us that whales rape other whales. That's what he said, at least, so that's an example, I guess.

If it can occur in this universe it is natural.

Male ducks are always gang raping females, or girly males. Just go down to your local park and see.

There was an article in the Times a few weeks ago about a Pelican who is sexually attracted to his human carer...boy would i like to see a video of that :D

bigots in 'imperfect application of logic' SHOCK

oh, that's not even a sin.........as long as you aren't wearing socks.
No opposite/hypothenuse here?:(

I can attest to that! Although a 'bit' may be inaccurate...

yes, well, substitute "a bit" with "whole bunch" as needed.

And how YOU doin?

It was one bird, and the other bird was already dead. And a different species.

So now I can add necrophilia to the list of natural things?

Natural vs. unnatural, eh?
Hurricanes are natural.
So are tornados.
And volcanos.
And lightning.
And bees.
And mosquitos.
And sharks.

On the other hand:
Skyscapers are unnatural.
So is medicine.
And meteorology.
And chocolate.
And TV.
And books.
And the computer you are reading this from.
For that matter, human civilization itself is unnatural. If we only did what nature wanted, we'd still be living in a cave with no technological progress for the 10,000 or so years since we stopped living in caves.

We do lots of things that aren't "natural."
We drive cars.
We use computers.
We talk on our phones.
We watch tv.
We wear clothes.
We play video games.
We write things down on paper.
We ride bikes.
And we have butt seks.

AND
post on NSG :)

So now I can add necrophilia to the list of natural things?

only if you use natural lubricants :eek:

only if you use natural lubricants :eek:

Cool. Just make a few cuts and we're good.


holy shit, I can't believe I thought of that, let alone typed it.

Natural vs. unnatural, eh?
Hurricanes are natural.
So are tornados.
And volcanos.
And lightning.
And bees.
And mosquitos.
And sharks.

On the other hand:
Skyscapers are unnatural.
So is medicine.
And meteorology.
And chocolate.
And TV.
And books.
And the computer you are reading this from.
For that matter, human civilization itself is unnatural. If we only did what nature wanted, we'd still be living in a cave with no technological progress for the 10,000 or so years since we stopped living in caves.

ohhhh now there's an interesting one :)

Would you agree that our ability to make tools is natural?
Humans naturally form communities?
And that its natural for us to use those tools to protect ourselves from the elements?
and that we prefer to do so in the company of others?

if so then you could argue that by implication the skyscraper and indeed all Technology is a "natural" product of our abilities :p

I get your point though, you're distinguishing between naturally forming and man-made :)

there are no homosexual animals. It's all ethocntriuc research is all. See, all anthropologusts,zoologists and scientists are gay, and unatural beings. So when we go out and do field research and film supposedly "gay" penguins and such, why, we are actually training those animals to act out perversities in order to justify our own homesexuality. Now that I have exposed my scientific community, I suspect that they will form an international plot to kill me and burn all the film I have shot of anmals NOT being homosexual. I expect all of you to send checks and money orders to

666 nogaychipmunks
Palo Alto Cailifornia 6666969.

remember: you are saving heterosexuality for the human race in doing this, as well as supporting funding for hetero animal research. Quite possibly the second most important research being done today, next to my other research program:

NOGLOBALWARMING.COM.

you can of course send checks to the above address in order to help me prove the myth of global warming. Pleease make checks payable to K. Lay or J Skilling.